mikcheck Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Thank you. So, one touch football would be better also playing with a narrow width? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LlamaZA Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 One touch football would best be played with a narrow, fluid formation since it brings all your players closer together. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikcheck Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Thanks LlamaZa. I'l do that. Besides quick tempo, i'm also using mixed time wasting ( close to often) because i've read a post in this forum saying that it is a "patience" slider. Dont know if it's really how it works. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 Thanks LlamaZa. I'l do that. Besides quick tempo, i'm also using mixed time wasting ( close to often) because i've read a post in this forum saying that it is a "patience" slider. Dont know if it's really how it works. Time wasting can have a negative effect. Players will look to hold onto the ball longer. As you want first touch football you don't want them to dwell on the ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikcheck Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Thank you Cleon. I will try that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 Thank you Cleon. I will try that Let me know how you get on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikcheck Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Cleon, i'll try later when i get home and i haven't played since. Just one thing: I've read a nice thread about time wasting and some people say that it can be seen as a urgency slider. So quick tempo with more time wasting wouldn't be something like one touch football but with no hurry to get to the goal or it's more complicated than that and they also hold it more on their feet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 Cleon, i'll try later when i get home and i haven't played since. Just one thing: I've read a nice thread about time wasting and some people say that it can be seen as a urgency slider. So quick tempo with more time wasting wouldn't be something like one touch football but with no hurry to get to the goal or it's more complicated than that and they also hold it more on their feet? They'll dwell on the ball, look to go into the corner, pass it back to keeper etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
karax268 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Am looking forward to the rest of your next gen tactic posts. I came up with something similar for barca after I donwloaded a summer transfer update for FM11 as I tried to fit in cesc. It was the same formation. only different roles. And it failed dramaticaly. Now, I try again with Ajax and it seems to work better now. Am looking forward to your approach Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 Am looking forward to the rest of your next gen tactic posts. I came up with something similar for barca after I donwloaded a summer transfer update for FM11 as I tried to fit in cesc. It was the same formation. only different roles. And it failed dramaticaly. Now, I try again with Ajax and it seems to work better now. Am looking forward to your approach I think a lot of people will be surprised with the results, especially been a league one side and destroying Prem team away from home Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex.s Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Heya Cleon. Just browsed through your thread and it is a really top read. I have been one to pretty much play FM on autodrive, but reading through the way you do things has inspired me to pay more attention to the match engine and take a more in depth look into the game. I have just implemented a 4-2-3-1 system into my Newell's Old Boys save and my team is just starting to play some pretty great stuff. However I am really struggling to get my striker involved in the game. This is just part of the way through the game, but as you can see where the striker should be getting involved and making passes, not much is happening and he is contributing virtually nothing to my build up play. I have had the same problems for the last 3 games. I have tried him in a deep lying striker role as well but it didnt seem to have much effect. Is it possible the it is my AMC that is the problem rather than my Striker? Here are his stats and player roles. Any help would be much appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 Have you watched any games on full? How does he react in a game? Is he drifting out too wide? Is he getting good supply from the wingers and midfielders? Is the AMC getting in his way and occupying the same space? Do you have a screenshot of the teams heat map in the analysis tab? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
karax268 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I think a lot of people will be surprised with the results, especially been a league one side and destroying Prem team away from home I'm still struggling to find the right combination of roles for the right situation but when I get it, it works briliantly. For example in the supercup I destroyed Twente 6-1. This formation really does wonders. The only real weakness I have is my CB. He's to slow I think tocover the area I'm asking him to Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex.s Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Have you watched any games on full? How does he react in a game? Is he drifting out too wide? Is he getting good supply from the wingers and midfielders? Is the AMC getting in his way and occupying the same space?Do you have a screenshot of the teams heat map in the analysis tab? Here is a heat map from 1 of my last three games. I have watched the last couple on full and the main thing I have noticed is how little my AMC is getting involved in the center of the park, which in turn I think is causing my striker to be a little ineffective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 I'm still struggling to find the right combination of roles for the right situation but when I get it, it works briliantly. For example in the supercup I destroyed Twente 6-1.This formation really does wonders. The only real weakness I have is my CB. He's to slow I think tocover the area I'm asking him to My centreback is very slow and has no pace or acceleration. But that doesn't matter because I have the DMC do the running and get him to do the jobs my DC isn't capable of. What kind of area is your covering if he's not able to? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 Here is a heat map from 1 of my last three games. I have watched the last couple on full and the main thing I have noticed is how little my AMC is getting involved in the center of the park, which in turn I think is causing my striker to be a little ineffective. How is the AMC not been involved though? Is he too high up the pitch? Opposition marking him out of the game easy? Your players not able to pass to him due their passing settings? It could be a number of reasons why, but only you can tell us how Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
karax268 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 My centreback is very slow and has no pace or acceleration. But that doesn't matter because I have the DMC do the running and get him to do the jobs my DC isn't capable of. What kind of area is your covering if he's not able to? Well, most of the danger created by my opponents is when I'm against a 1 st formation and the st beats my DC in a one one duel. He's then basicaly through on goal because my FB are to far away to cover for him. But I geuss that's just my DM nnot being active enough. How are you setting them up? Dm on a specific man mark on the ST and the DC in a cover role?But when my DC can't cover the area is when I'm up against a 2 ST formation. If the opposition plays it right my DC is hepless. luckily my midfield takes a lot of presure of my defense so I'm not conceding many chances, but it's a worry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 How do you have the fullbacks set up? Mine are on defensive duties. As for the DMC I ask him to specific man mark the striker if I'm playing against a 1 striker formation. If against a 2 man partnership I just ask him to man mark but not specify anyone. I don't have teams create many chances past me. I have changed it slightly from the screenshot I posted though, I'll post an updated one soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
karax268 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I have my fb on defensive too. That's where I went wrong with my barca try. They're still learning. So I'll see how it'l progress Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 I have my fb on defensive too. That's where I went wrong with my barca try. They're still learning. So I'll see how it'l progress Don't your fullbacks get involved in defence? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikcheck Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Cleon, you're using zonal loose marking in everyone and man marking in your DMC, right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 Cleon, you're using zonal loose marking in everyone and man marking in your DMC, right? For the next gen stuff? I'm using man marking throughout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikcheck Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Yes. Interesting. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuffers007 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 For the next gen stuff? I'm using man marking throughout. is that with tight marking too. as i notice it is possible to remove that option but that doesnt make sense to me?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 is that with tight marking too. as i notice it is possible to remove that option but that doesnt make sense to me?? No, I don't want them too tight and increase the risk of been turned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikcheck Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Cleon i know you haven't posted nothing about your project yet but i have question. Your only DC with man marking, doesn't he leave a big gap? I tought you use him with zonal marking so he doesn't go too far, leaving that for your DMC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 Cleon i know you haven't posted nothing about your project yet but i have question. Your only DC with man marking, doesn't he leave a big gap? I tought you use him with zonal marking so he doesn't go too far, leaving that for your DMC Not really, but its hard to see or understand why until rest of the defence stuff is up Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
karax268 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Don't your fullbacks get involved in defence? I do now with this try. they are on FB defensive no matter how I approach a game. But when I tried this formation for FM11 with barca I wanted to keep using wingbacks. It was one of the reasons the tactic didn't work for me then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikcheck Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Not really, but its hard to see or understand why until rest of the defence stuff is up Yes sure. Let's wait for it. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 I've added a bit more and will be doing so throughout the weekend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikcheck Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Thanks Cleon. I've read it. Your possession and passes completed were really good in that game. Looking forward to see more I'm trying to create the same tactic but not for FM12. I also notice more possession and more passes completed but i'm a bit far yet from keeping it balanced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham_aka_stam Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 How (well) does the single CB deal with opponents who use 2 forwards? Must say I'm stuggling with having two separate threads here, I've forgotten the other questions I had Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 How (well) does the single CB deal with opponents who use 2 forwards?Must say I'm stuggling with having two separate threads here, I've forgotten the other questions I had Used to have the thread as one but all the info got lost inbetween questions and it got really complicated lol. Well he does alright but its all about getting the DMC to drop back and help, the DMC needs to act like a centreback when not in possession. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LlamaZA Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Cleon - do you think you could get the 'right' feel from your CB/DM combo with a SW and BPD (Stopper)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Cleon - do you think you could get the 'right' feel from your CB/DM combo with a SW and BPD (Stopper)? You mean drop the DMC back to CB? That would defeat what I'm trying. But yeah that would work as I've used it on other formations. I've found out what the issue was though, I found I had to alter the DMC's mentality toa low lower one s he drops back. The DC I changed to a limited DC I think but 2nd season I want him to be a ballplayer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LlamaZA Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 You mean drop the DMC back to CB? That would defeat what I'm trying. But yeah that would work as I've used it on other formations.I've found out what the issue was though, I found I had to alter the DMC's mentality toa low lower one s he drops back. The DC I changed to a limited DC I think but 2nd season I want him to be a ballplayer. Yes, drop the DM to CB, and the DC to SW - so you have roughly the same shape and then use the roles and duties to get them playing around about where you want them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Yes, drop the DM to CB, and the DC to SW - so you have roughly the same shape and then use the roles and duties to get them playing around about where you want them. That works yeah as I've done it with the Catenaccio, but for the purpose of what I'm doing its no good as I'm trying to replicate real life and use the defender as an extra midfielder instead. But the above works Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LlamaZA Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Does the BPD not help out and play like a defensive mid? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Does the BPD not help out and play like a defensive mid? Yeah but you lose the edge going forward as they don't really step up and play like a DMC when in possession. But the other way around, the DMC dropping back just seems better suited and more relevant to what I'm creating. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikcheck Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Cleon having the DMC with high CF would have a negative effect? Maybe he would go too far? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Cleon having the DMC with high CF would have a negative effect? Maybe he would go too far? It would mean he would at times ignore the instructions you've set him. With only 1 centreback that would be a disastrous thing for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pozzati Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I have set up a formation same as you. However a couple of the roles are different, especially in midfield. (DM-DLP-AP) I'm playing counter, fluid, shorter passing, heavier closing down and the rest default. Been fiddling and testing a bit with the marking system and so on. I have a lot of possession, but my attackers can't seem to score (I'm Roma and Totti is injured). However, I found that the CB is missing a lot of passes. Often less than half of his passes are finding a team-mate. And I see your CB doesn't have the best passing ratio either. I find this a bit strange since the CB (and the rest of the defence) should have a lot a of choices ahead of him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 I have set up a formation same as you. However a couple of the roles are different, especially in midfield. (DM-DLP-AP) I'm playing counter, fluid, shorter passing, heavier closing down and the rest default. Been fiddling and testing a bit with the marking system and so on. I have a lot of possession, but my attackers can't seem to score (I'm Roma and Totti is injured). However, I found that the CB is missing a lot of passes. Often less than half of his passes are finding a team-mate. And I see your CB doesn't have the best passing ratio either. I find this a bit strange since the CB (and the rest of the defence) should have a lot a of choices ahead of him. You need to remember what I've posted up is just the first 90 minutes using this formation, so the roles are not defined yet. I end up with (as you'll see when I post it) with a midfield that is an anchor man, ball winning midfielder, central midfielder and an attacking midfielder. It's not a real surprise from my first game that the defender didn't have the best time passing. Considering the fullback where too advanced as was the DMC. Also my defender has 7 for his passing attribute so he is generally poor. It increases quite a lot if I play my back up defender as he has better passing but not as good defensivley. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aderow Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Ok Cleon Are you finding that you are having a lot of possession as well? Yes my team did. Thing is, I dominate possession in most matches I play before I moved one of the DC up to DMC. I will say something very surprising happened. I got over 65% possession for the majority of my match against bayern munich. I don't have to play narrow at all but my fullbacks are more defence minded for now unlike yours. But 2nd season they will be a lot more attack minded hopefully. You'll see more on how I've set up very soon and that might help you more. Well I look forward to seeing it. Well that's why in the opening post I mention it's a creating, maintaining and evolution project. You start with a base then over time after putting effort in throughout several seasons you can actually play exactly how you want. But it takes quite a bit of time to be able to play that way as you need to change things a lot in the mean time to get that balance.The only draw back I suffer is been hit on the counter at times but its rare that happens to me. I've just managed to go undefeated and win the FA Cup while been in league one. I find that by using the shouts and maybe changing strategyat times I can get the team playing exactly how I like and good exciting football. I've had reports after games saying the fans love the attacking display my side are playing quite a few times. For the sake of future innovation, I've decided to keep going. I won't give up for now First time to figure out how to get my DM to operate like a DC. And how to close the gaps between FBs and the CB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Ok CleonYes my team did. Thing is, I dominate possession in most matches I play before I moved one of the DC up to DMC. I will say something very surprising happened. I got over 65% possession for the majority of my match against bayern munich. Well I look forward to seeing it. For the sake of future innovation, I've decided to keep going. I won't give up for now First time to figure out how to get my DM to operate like a DC. And how to close the gaps between FBs and the CB. Do you use the analysis tab to watch the clips back and make notes? I find that a good way to see how the players are behaving. If you pause it and have a look at the players around him and how far he is positioned etc. It tells you quite a lot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aderow Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Do you use the analysis tab to watch the clips back and make notes? I find that a good way to see how the players are behaving. If you pause it and have a look at the players around him and how far he is positioned etc. It tells you quite a lot. I use it on occasion as it tells me things that the highlights don't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikcheck Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Cleon when you play against a AMC, do you use OI or maybe use your DMC to man marking? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aderow Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 There's something weird that I've noticed that is a little worrying. I dunno if this is a FM10 but whenever my full backs get forward, I notice that all of the oppositions attackers stay very high up the pitch. I get a situation where lone CB is essentially marking 2-4 players. If I get hit with a counter, it leaves me in a very dangerous position. At the same time this means that they are defending with fewer players making my attacks more effective. Right now I'm not thinking about making my full backs more defensive. I'm thinking why is it that the opposition AI is not dropping its attackers back to help cope with my supporting players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 Cleon when you play against a AMC, do you use OI or maybe use your DMC to man marking? No I don't use OI's as I need the players to play exactly how I set them up. And the DMC always man marks. But if the AMC is causing me problems I get the BWM to man mark him. There's something weird that I've noticed that is a little worrying. I dunno if this is a FM10 but whenever my full backs get forward, I notice that all of the oppositions attackers stay very high up the pitch. Ahh I didn't realise you was using FM10, quite a bit has changed since then so I'm not sure how successful this will be playing the way I do in the thread. I think FM10 was a real problem for fullbacks tracking back, it's still not ideal now in FM12 but is a massive improvement on FM10. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aderow Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Ahh I didn't realise you was using FM10, quite a bit has changed since then so I'm not sure how successful this will be playing the way I do in the thread. I think FM10 was a real problem for fullbacks tracking back, it's still not ideal now in FM12 but is a massive improvement on FM10. I probably should've mentioned that I'm gonna try and see if I can get this using a DC with forward runs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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