FM12: Borussia Dortmund - 'Wo Champions sind Geboren'

[phoenixbasileus]

Gundogan is only an average tackler though, I'd prefer Sven doing that and Gundogan using his high creativity, passing and first touch to set up moves

[Llew_Arshavin23]

Wouldn't Sven be better as the ball winning midfielder, Gundogan's strengths are in going forward

He has Gündoğan as a BWM > Support, meaning that he pushes high up, uses his tackling abilities and then starts attacks with little intricate passes. I suppose he has him set to high creative freedom too.

Anxiietyyy has pretty much summed it up for you. I've found from experience that more attack-minded players can play very well in roles like a 'Ball-Winning Midfielder'. With the 'B-WM' set to 'Support', it allows him to do the prettier side of the game too. It isn't just about tackling either, reading the game is equally, if not more important. For example, here's Moritz Leitner's interception chart, who played in the 'BWM > Support' role against Oberneuland in the DFB-Pokal Cup;

As you can see, he won the ball primarily in the opposition half. This allows him to get on the ball, move it on or push up the field with it at his feet before taking a shot or playing a good through ball. Another thing, he made 74 passes in that match, 3 of them being key, chance creating passes

[phoenixbasileus]

Finally done it - won the Treble

28-4-2 in the League left us 8 points clear of Bayern in 2nd and 13 ahead of Leverkusen in 3rd. A 4-1 victory over Bayern in the DFP-Pokal Final brings us to 4 final wins in six seasons and a 4-2 come from behind victory in the Champions League Final against Arsenal after gutsy defeats of Barcelona and Chelsea in the quarter and semi finals, even with talisman captain Mat Hummels out with a training injury.

Karim Benzema has to be the best free transfer I have ever made in FM - 61 goals in 80 appearances for Der BvB.

Let's see if I can't make it 3 league titles in a row for that achievement. Already have a solid looking newgen DC from Man City joining for 6m and Miralem Pjanic was transfer-listed for 8m by them as well. Always been a fan of his even if I don't exactly need his services.

[fyrefuze]

Anxiietyyy has pretty much summed it up for you. I've found from experience that more attack-minded players can play very well in roles like a 'Ball-Winning Midfielder'. With the 'B-WM' set to 'Support', it allows him to do the prettier side of the game too. It isn't just about tackling either, reading the game is equally, if not more important. For example, here's Moritz Leitner's interception chart, who played in the 'BWM > Support' role against Oberneuland in the DFB-Pokal Cup;

As you can see, he won the ball primarily in the opposition half. This allows him to get on the ball, move it on or push up the field with it at his feet before taking a shot or playing a good through ball. Another thing, he made 74 passes in that match, 3 of them being key, chance creating passes

I disagree, If you want Gundogan to win the ball high up pitch and then pass it to more creative player/play maker (Gotze, in your case) he might well do it BUT Gundogan is no sissoko with an all round physical stats. He lacks those.

Moreover you'll miss out on those brilliant through passes that he plays directly to your Advance Forward /Poacher.

If you want him to win balls and dictate tempo for you best use him as DLP - support.

[phoenixbasileus]

I would also point out that perhaps an early cup match against a minnow team isn't exactly representative of how he might play in that role

[Anxiietyyy]

Claudemir, yay or nay?

[phoenixbasileus]

He's turned out pretty decent in my save, went to Milan and has ended up good enough for me to cap him for Italy

[Stampler]

i would say nay , there are better alternatives for sure

[Llew_Arshavin23]

I disagree, If you want Gundogan to win the ball high up pitch and then pass it to more creative player/play maker (Gotze, in your case) he might well do it BUT Gundogan is no sissoko with an all round physical stats. He lacks those.

Moreover you'll miss out on those brilliant through passes that he plays directly to your Advance Forward /Poacher.

If you want him to win balls and dictate tempo for you best use him as DLP - support.

I can only disagree with you two If you use Gündogan, or any other player as a deep-lying playmaker, I've found that the player in question is more likely to sit in the midfield and play supporting balls forward. That's all very well, but in the manner that I want to go about and play my football, it's essential that we win the ball up high. The 'Ball-Winning Midfielder' role is the perfect role, and it's worked very well throughout pre-season and my first few games in the regular season. It integrates the defensive aspect very well in amongst the mroe creative aspect. We musn't for get either that Gündogan is no slouch when it comes to defensive ability. Of course, his physical attributes leave a small bit to be desired, but that's not as important, especially that a more defensive-minded Sven Bender or Sebastien Kehl holding down the midfield behind him.

Also, fyrefuze, you mention that with a role like a 'Ball-Winning Midfielder', I'll sacrifice the passing abolites of the player in questions. That's far from the case. Here's Gündogan's passing chart from our DFL-Super Cup win over Schalke;

As you can probably see, he still makes a fair amount of key, chance creating passes. His game was curtailed somewhat by a niggling injury, henceforth I decided to pull him off in the 54th minute. He has 'through balls' set to 'sometimes'. This allows him to pass the ball to a nearby player for the majority of time, retaining possession in a simple manner, but also gives him the option to be more direct and play more through balls etc.

** Pictures taken out.

Claudemir, yay or nay?

Definitely. Very good player and would fit into the Bundesliga well

[fyrefuze]

Here's my version of Gundogan playing as a DLP spraying the passing all across the field and thus dictating the tempo. I am in my 3rd season with Dormund and thus He is much more developed and established version than yours. So Schalke or any other Bundesliga would have been too less a team, I have chosen here my favorite win of the season again against Real Madrid, in which he played for 75mins and made 42 passes (39 successful) and just look at the number of passes from deep.

Pleasing. isn't it? I could have put up screenshot against Schalke here but I don't know when I played Gungogan last in the League. With no playing restrictions in Bundesliga and a strong squad at my disposal I keep with my rotational policy and use him in really important matches.

[phoenixbasileus]

[video=youtube;8hZbNJQ3wTI]

How many chances were Neuer and friends going to give Benzema to score that one...

[Llew_Arshavin23]

Monthly Update - August;

The month of August was a good one for Dortmund. After our DFL-Supercup triumph over our greatest rivals, FC Schalke 04, we carried our good form from pre-season through to the opening weeks of the Bundesliga, which is my main target to win.

---

August Fixtures and Results;

Bundesliga;

Dortmund - 2 (Lewandowski '55, Perisic '90+4)

FC Köln - 0

This was a tough start to our competitive campaign in the Bundesliga. Köln were always going to pose a problem, especially with Lukas Podolski spearheading their attack. Despite Köln's obvious dangers, we combated them well. We dominated the game and were rewarded with a good win. Lewandowski opened the scoring after rounding the 'keeper after some good work from Großkreutz. New boy, Ivan Perisic, then scored his first goal for the BVB from an acute angle after a fantastic ball from Kagawa.

Bundesliga;

Mainz 05 - 0

Dortmund - 2 (Kuba '46, Löwe '56)

We moved on from our good win at the Signal Iduna Park to Mainz, a team who've improved greatly in recent seasons. The first-half was predominantly dominated by Mainz. In all honesty, we were all over the shop in the first-half; luckily, no goals were conceded. We came out in the second-half a different side. I decided to up the tempo and width and that decision paid off. Kuba linked up well with fellow Pole, Robert Lewandowski and proved that his inclusion in the first-team was beneficial. Chris Löwe, who only arrived in the Summer, scored a cracker of a free-kick and his stock continued to rise.

Bundesliga;

Vfl Wolfsburg - 2 (Ja-Cheol '7, Lakic '51)

Dortmund - 1 (Großkreutz '10)

This was directly the opposite to the Mainz match: a good performance throughout, but we came away with a loss. Ja-Choel gave 'The Wolves' the lead with a smashing goal from 30-yards, but we showed good character through Großkreutz's headed goal three minutes later. Sebastien Kehl hobbled off with a dead leg and that, ultimately, led to our downfall. Kehl was in the team to withstand opposition counter-attacks and after his omission from the game, Lakic bagged the winning goal 6 minutes after the restart and 3 minutes after Kehl's injury.

Bundesliga;

Dortmund - 3 (Leitner '8, Bender '51, Subotic pen '90+4)

Hoffenheim - 0 (Braafheid Second Yellow '82)

Very pleasing performance. We recovered from the disappointment of last week well. Our midfield partnership of Moritz Leitner and Sven Bender worked well. Piszczek supplied the first goal from the right-hand side as Leitner burst into the box before slamming home. 1-0. Sven Bender then made a rare appearance in the opposition box before scoring a similar type goal to his midfield counterpart's, but from the left-hand side and Schmelzer providing. The game was the wrapped up late as new signing, Jeffrey Schlupp, won a penalty and, for some reason, centre-half Neven Subotic took and scored the penalty.

---

Summer Transfer Window 2011-12 | In's and Out's;

In's;

JEFFREY SCHLUPP LEICESTER CITY & GERMANY | £2.2 million (£1 million coming after 20 league appearances)

£2.2 million may look a lot for a player who seems to be far from the finished article, but I'm a massive fan of young Schlupp. His main threat at this moment of time is his pace, of course. I feel his best position will be through the middle as a Striker, therefore the likes of Lucas Barrios will need to help in his development. Looking forward to see how he develops in his new surroundings.

CHRISTOPHER DIBON FC ADMIRA & AUSTRIA | £875k

Dibon has immense quality and potential. At £875k, he's a great acquisition for my BVB side. One of my main policies with this save is to develop young, talented players into first-team starters and Dibon certainly fits into that policy. Looking forward to seeing him fledge into a BVB icon. I've yet to decide whether centre-back or right-back is his best position.

Out's;

FLORIAN KRINGE CESENA & GERMANY | £800k

Kringe was moved on in order to strengthen the club's wage budget. At 33k per week, he was taking a huge chunk from the wage budget and was earning more every week than players like Mario Götze, who have far, far greater ability than Kringe...

FLORIAN HÜBNER NACIONAL de MADEIRA & GERMANY

Surplus to requirements. Moved on loan for an initial fee of £55k. Can be bought for £550k.

---

In other BVB-related news...

UEFA Champions League Group Stage - The draw; Well, the time has come again and the groups have been decided. Here's who I've got to battle off;

This will no doubt be a very tough group to progress from. The obvious threats are Internazionale and Olympique Lyonnais, but I'm not going to disregard FC Basel. They're all very good sides that are capable of beating anybody on their day. Would settle for a second place finish, but that means I will have to play a better side in the last 16 round.

---

KOMM DORTMUND!

[Stampler]

nice update reads very smooth (apart from the parts with yelllow font) -keep it up!

As for my Dortmund save:

February 2016, Sanogo is banging them in, top of the table 11 points ahead, out of the domestic cup but in the quarters of the champions league...Bring on Milan!!!

Sold Grosskreutz to Mainz for 4M, for Milner is coming up good besides Gündogan.

[Llew_Arshavin23]

nice update reads very smooth (apart from the parts with yelllow font) -keep it up!

As for my Dortmund save:

February 2016, Sanogo is banging them in, top of the table 11 points ahead, out of the domestic cup but in the quarters of the champions league...Bring on Milan!!!

Sold Grosskreutz to Mainz for 4M, for Milner is coming up good besides Gündogan.

Cheers, mate I know, the yellow may be a bit too much on the eyes. I'm going to change it now

Well done for creating such a lead in the League. It's always going to be tough, especially with the likes of Bayern München breathing down your neck I'm sure. Good Luck in the Quarter Finals of the Champions League too

I'm hoping to get another monthly update on here by tonight.

[Stampler]

Bayern are lying in 4th even more behind

Its Leverkusen who are -kinda- chasing me...

will post screens tonight hopefully

[fyrefuze]

hey dropped in to check how are you guys doing here.. Not much development though, the thread is pretty much dead again. (well I can generalize for the whole forum as well).

I am now playing with Aberdeen - trying to emulate SAF's career: my aim is to get a call from the great MUFC 3-4 seasons down.

[NorthernGooner]

I'll be active in this thread again when the update comes out, going to be my first save on the new update. Defo looking forward to developing Leitner to his full potential, great player.

[Stampler]

I´m still playing with Dortmund but like fyrefuze said, this thread´s dead baby

so im planning to post the pics of my save before the last patch comes (for then i will be trying a different club, Celtic is a favorite) this weekend to resurrect this a bit.

@fyrefuze: good luck with Aberdeen - pretty ambitious task there

@NorthernGooner: Leitner never had a future at my Dortmund saves, always sold him after 1 or 2 seasons. I could take a look where he ended up in my save, im in 2017 and post a screenie here if youre interested.

[Stampler]

[NorthernGooner]

Wow only 13 goals conceded in the league all season, well done

[Stampler]

Wow only 13 goals conceded in the league all season, well done

yeah our defence was quite decent.

what made me angry was the fact that we lost our only game of the season against SCHALKE (!) in the 91st minute on the 33rd matchday , otherwise we would have gone the season unbeaten. Damn!

Lost the CL final and the DFB Pokal final as well...

nevertheless i am now an ICON at borussia dortmund.

time to leave.

trying to get a job in the iceland league now.

sporting lisbon and morocco offered me jobs as well..

[lawd]

I decided I couldn't wait any longer for the new patch soI decided to start off my usual European save and went with Dortmund I've watched them a couple of times this season irl and quite fancied it. And I'm really glad I did. Really enjoying it, didn't realie how tricky th Bundesliga was, it seems every game is against a really decent side. In my first game, after a rocky pre season, I managed to beat Schalke in the super cup 5-1, I'm sitting top of the league a few games in. so far so good. Sucks that the update is'nt up though, then I'd already have Reus coming in.

One complaint, I can't seems to stop making really daft mistakes in Defence, misplaced back passes, goalkeeping errors, silly pens, and a fluke crosses that end up going in, haven't kept a clean sheet in 7 games now.

[Stampler]

As its the early season as you wrote, just check the match preparation and set it to "very high", and "no specific focus". that should help.

when all the bars are filled to the maximum, you can set it to "average"/"high" and "def. set pieces".

you can get Reus for around 12M after the 1st season or even in january. In offloading Blaszekowski and some other dead wood you should be able to gather the money for it.

[OutClassed]

Started up a Dortmund save and approaching my first league game. Spanked Schalke 5-1 in the Super Cup and progressed through the cup with a 2-0 win.

I haven't spent much money, only Stepanenko (£3m- and just returned from injury) and Reinhartz (£5m) have joined the squad so far. Pizczecki left for £7.75m and is the only departure thus far. I'm hopefully going to sell some more of the squad that I don't need. I'm not sure whether I've got enough fullbacks, but I don't want to buy a RB because Koch will be my starter when he returns from injury. Depending on their success this season, I'll look for another striker in January.

[Stampler]

i wouldnt rely on Koch too much, for me he turned out crap.

I recommed looking for Romario, the RB from Vitoria.

Good start though, and Reinartz is class

[Stampler]

Just joined Sporting Lisbon.

New adventure awaits!

[lawd]

Well I am about half way through my first season with Dortmund and I mut say I both love and loath it. I am tryig to utilise a 4-2-3-1 type of system, very much in the current German style. And I am having mixed success. I sit top of the table after 14 games winning 11 and losing 3. My main gripe is that I can not for love nor money keep a clean sheet, and by that I don't mean I only get one once in a while, I may I never get one. Its silly mistakesthat annoy me, Subotic has been a liability at best at times, and if it wasn't for the brilliant Gotze getting 15 assists in 18 games and Lewandowski getting 24 goals in 17 games I dont know where we would be sitting. I am determined to solve it however.

On a positive note though, I am really enjoying the Bundesliga it is certainly a challenge.

[buster]

Lawd vecause of the way the ME works Subotic is always going to be quite pants because he is sooooo slow, I would offload him you can get £20mill which you can do alot with as Dortmund (Tasci at Stuttgart is a brilliant replacement at 11Mill).

[lawd]

Well I got knocked out of the CL in a group I should have topped, I think in the summer I am going to have to invest in a new keeper and CB, brought Sturridge and Savic in on loan in the transfer windw and managing to fend Bayern off top spot at the minute, beaten on pens in the cup by Koln, but I played a weakened side. If I can tighten things up at the back I can turn us into a real European force, but its taking ages to find the right balance, I think its starting to come though. Lost Lewandowski for a while which is a huge blow as he was banging them in like nothing else, Barrios did ok, but his form has dropped so he can wait for a chance whilst Sturridge gets a shot. Hopefully season 2 will be easier and the Players will respect me more and be easier to motivate as I think thats what is making it tricky his time round.

[fyrefuze]

see my posts above... Subotic + Hummels works a treat when played stopper cover combo. They both have excellent reading of game even if they lack in pace. Positioning is more important. anyways you can get STEFAN BELL for much cheaper post January and he's an excellent cover for Subotic. Sturridge is my favourite, he bangs goals for fun.. a must have poacher.

[lawd]

I have tried loads of different combinations and still leak goals like the titanic, to be honest Im using this save as a preperation for the new patch where I can start a proper Dortmund save, Im still top of the league but I just cant get my defence right. Going forward we are fantastic, top scorers by along way. My side seems very similar to Keegans Newcastle of the 90's, score loads, very fun for people to watch but so inept defensivley winning things will be tricky.

[Stampler]

id recommend getting a better goalie maybe

[Timurid]

Is it me or does Kagawa submit a transfer request in season 2 for everyone else? The first season i did pretty good won the domestic cup, the league, super cup, and got to the quarters in the ucl.

[ShirazS]

Is it me or does Kagawa submit a transfer request in season 2 for everyone else? The first season i did pretty good won the domestic cup, the league, super cup, and got to the quarters in the ucl.

He always does that. I think it is because of his preference in FM not to play in Germany

[Stampler]

very strange. hope in the patch this gets fixed.

[ShirazS]

Hi All,

I started a new Dortmund save and will be playing a 4-2-3-1 Deep:

These are my transfers for the first season so far:

And lastly, these are my results for August:

It is going okay so far. Lewandowski got injured before my last match and will be out for 5 weeks so I am a little short on striking options and am forced to use Damien Le Tallec although he scored twice in his first match at home to Wolfsburg. The only result I am unhappy with so far is the one away to Mainz. I dominated the match but could just not find a way past their keeper and then my keeper made an error to allow them to score.

Anyway, that's my story so far, will post more updates soon

[pannapexton]

Half way through the first season and coming second toBayern but as soon as this squad clicks i think they will be in trouble.

GK: Adler / Wiedenfeller?

RB: Vrsijalko

CB:Subotic

CB: Hummels

LB: Schmelzer

DM: Bender / Kehl

CM: Badelj

CM:Sigurdsson / Gundogan

AML: Gotze

AMR:Kagawa

AF:Barrios / Rondon

[Stampler]

looking good

and perfect transfers for your tactic

id maybe also recommend signing yaya sanogo as a prospect for the attack and stefan bell as a DC prospect

[nick1408]

Has anyone had any issues signing players since 12.2 came out?

[flows]

@Nick1408

I don't know if you mean with issues that the board doesn't give you the permission to give the players more salary?

I just started a new game with Dortmund on the new patch. I have no money for transfers (I disabled that in the begin settings). But when I want to get a player on loan the board doesn't accept the amount of salary that I'm taking over.

Example; I wanted to hire Livermore(Spurs) but the board only allowed me to pay 90% of the salary.

Which I think is strange because I still can spend 100k on salary.

I cannot adjust the budget because in the first transferperiod that option is disabled.

So I don't know wether or not I should sell Kringe/Da Silva/Blaszczyhowski now or wait till January.

Does anyone know a solution for this.

Or is this situation (low salary acceptance) caused by me disabling the option to have money in the first transferperiode (because then I'll just have to wait till January)

[nick1408]

Sorry, I meant I am having huge troubles signing players who fall out of contract. Only had one season so far so will try again soon

[nick1408]

Even after the signing issues I did make some player changes during my first season:

Yttergard Jenssen

Vrsaljko

Milanov

Xulu

V. Kadlec

Muniesa

K. Babacar

Andrada

A. Vass

R. Ribeiro

Coutinho

Reus

Bittencourt

Players out include:

Koch

Bakalorz

Rangelov

Ginczek

Sobiech

Lowe

da Silva

Barrios

Santana

Owomoyela

Piszczek

Blasczykowski

I am trying to play a 4-2-3-1 but am very hot and cold. I need to keep adjusting the MC's roles otherwise it all falls apart.

Something else I have done is buy a heap of lesser players to try and get my II side promoted. I am currently unbeaten with them so hope to continue that

[NorthernGooner]

Some nice signings there Nick, surprised you got rid of Piszczek as I think he is a great RB, especially offensively. Some nice signings you brought in though. Hoping to get my save up tomorrow night, and alslo going to edit the OP tomorrow most likely.

[buster]

Yeah, you can ignore Piszczek's low tackling attribute, he makes up for it elsewhere.

I've started my first save with the new patch, was thrilled to discover you can still pick up Lars Bender and Reinartz on the cheap, I play a 4-3-3 formation, Gotz has a free role in the midfield 3 and has 15 assists in ten games, I use Perisic and Kagawa (who has signed a new contract, yay) or Barrios up front either side of Lewandowski (who is awesome) who plays as a target man, with the run onto ball setting. working really well at the moment, Humels is a beast!

[nick1408]

It was the tackling and marking that made me get rid of him. I just think there is more value to be had elsewhere.

[nick1408]

Above is the current tactics I am running. As you can see it is not as successful as I would like. What can I do to sure up defence a bit? I have dropped games I shouldn't but the latest draw against Bayern was unexpected and I came from 2-0 down to draw 3-3. I was 2-3 up for a while but dropped a goal late. Any ideas would be great

[ShirazS]

I would personally change:

Philosophy: Balanced

Strategy: Control

Passing: Default - You do not want to limit your side to short passes if there is a long pass option available that could potentially unlock an opponent's defense unless you want possession to be very high but it comes at a price.

CF: Default - Your players do not have high creativity and flair attributes so too much CF is not good for them

Closing Down: Press More - They have decent stamina and I personally like high closing down

Tackling: Default - No need for changing this, will cause too many bookings.

Marking: Zonal - Always Zonal for me as your team keeps the defensive shape but this is a personal preference and there is not better option I think.

Crossing: Default - You have Robert Lewandowski so you do not want make your attack too one-dimensional when you could score from the odd header.

Roaming: More Roaming - You have attacking players with high creativity and off the ball.

All this is what I would do personally, you can use some of it if you like or all.

[nick1408]

Thanks! I will keep the hard tackling as I don't mind the bookings too much. I am interested with what you have to say about CF. What would you consider high creativity and flair? Out of thew six mids/forwards (Gotze, Kagawa, Reus, Bender, Yttergard Jenssen, Lewandowski) four have both creativity and flair over 14 with Kagawa 12/15 and Bender 9/7. This is pretty much why I put CF as more expressive. I guess the roaming would make up for it though.

I'm going to give this a go. I have a cup gabe against 1860 Munchen followed by Koln and Nurnberg so some good testing for the new instructions.

[ShirazS]

The reason for less CF is that your defenders are given more CF as well when selecting "More Expressive" which will ultimately lead to more goals conceded I feel. You already have the philosophy as Fluid which increases CF for all players as well so giving them even more is not a great idea I think. I have CF on default for my Manchester United side and they still play quite well and are able to unlock defences as long as there are a good amount of defend, support and attack duties in the team. A good rule of thumb is 3 on defend, 4 on support and 3 on attack

Also the duties you have selected give a lot of Creative Freedom. AP, DLP and BPD all have a high CF setting

[nick1408]

Cheers. Makes sense I reckon.