Biggest JOKE ive seen on Fm11!!!

[Azuru]

Yes the computer has some foresight into the match. The computer AI is always looking for holes in your tactics, i.e if you play narrow the computer will play wide etc and add the random element to that and you're not 100% guaranteed to win the match either way.

[Azuru]

There's absolutely no evidence for this.

We don't get to see the match live and the computer AI is constantly looking for weaknesses in your tactics to exploit, prolly changing sliders several times leading up to the point where you get to see the highlights say so and so later.

[Smurf]

We don't get to see the match live and the computer AI is constantly looking for weaknesses in your tactics to exploit, prolly changing sliders several times leading up to the point where you get to see the highlights say so and so later.

You have no idea how the game works. You're completely wrong on this. Get over it.

[Azuru]

I don't see how I could possibily be wrong? I mean, you only see highlights, even when you click to view the full match, it's still only highlights. You're constantly waching highlights but you, the human, can click on tactics at any time during the match, thus meaning the computer must be able to change it's tactics at any time too but with a watchful eye in advance over the human.

[Bracken]

I don't see how I could possibily be wrong? I mean, you only see highlights, even when you click to view the full match, it's still only highlights. You're constantly waching highlights but you, the human, can click on tactics at any time during the match, thus meaning the computer must be able to change it's tactics at any time too but with a watchful eye in advance over the human .

Are you saying the game can read my mind? Or that they're slowly taking over? Where's John Connor when you need him?!

[Azuru]

No but I'm sayng the computer can see things as they happen and the human can only see things after they happen. If you play chess it's like it can read your mind but it's only calculating ahead of you

[hugo_rune]

No but I'm sayng the computer can see things as they happen and the human can only see things after they happen. If you play chess it's like it can read your mind but it's only calculating ahead of you

That's speculation only, and it really doesn't make sense that they would program it like that, as it would make the match engine far more complicated.

The game actually tells you when the AI is changing their tactical instructions - you will note that it happens at the same points where human tactical changes take place, i.e. in between highlight segments.

[milnerpoint]

No but I'm sayng the computer can see things as they happen and the human can only see things after they happen. If you play chess it's like it can read your mind but it's only calculating ahead of you

The game does not react to every change you make, thats not how football works, it wont be constantly changing things because that would be detrimental to the balance of the team. The AI has no advantage to us when it comes to the ME.

[Azuru]

I still believe the computer changes its tactics all the time, I think it tries to find the best possible way to beat your tactics, to adjust, or to plug (or try to plug) areas if it calculates obvious weaknesses etc.

Oh and I'm not talking about preset tactics. I think the game understands strengh and weaknesses via calculations like a chess playing computer program

[Smurf]

Azuru you're wrong. Seriously. Drop it.

[Azuru]

Yeah I know how it works. I say the 'best' but part of the difficulty is that 'best' varies, like it just does it enough to make it a challenge for us, just enough to make it difficult for us to produce a good tactic

[Matt ex SEGA]

I still believe the computer changes its tactics all the time, I think it tries to find the best possible way to beat your tactics, to adjust, or to plug (or try to plug) areas if it calculates obvious weaknesses etc.

Oh and I'm not talking about preset tactics. I think the game understands strengh and weaknesses via calculations like a chess playing computer program

SI are on the record as stating that the game doesn't cheat to beat you. They try to make it behave like a player rather than a chess computer, AFAIK.

[aderow]

Nah mat you really don't know how it works. Honestly, at this point, it sounds like you came to this conclusion after a lot of frustration......and I mean a lot of frustration.

[aderow]

SI are on the record as stating that the game doesn't cheat to beat you. They try to make it behave like a player rather than a chess computer, AFAIK.

Yeah we've been trying to tell him this in both this thread and in ones that he has started in the past. He's got no evidence of what he is saying and ignores the evidence that others present to him.

It really makes him sound like he thinks he knows more about the ME than SI does.

[Matt ex SEGA]

Yeah we've been trying to tell him this in both this thread and in ones that he has started in the past. He's got no evidence of what he is saying and ignores the evidence that others present to him.

It really makes him sound like he thinks he knows more about the ME than SI does.

It can feel like the world is against you when you've lost 9 on the bounce, you know...

Just thought I'd point out that it wasn't.

[Azuru]

Nobody's throwing evidence at me. And chess programs don't cheat, they're beatable, it's simply making up for the fact that it doesn't have a human brain to think.

Edit: I'm just saying the game won't allow you to rip it apart all the time because it sort of learns via calculations like a chess program, it really feels like you're playing a human. Things just don't feel preset.

And my evidence is in that fact that you will never find a tactic that makes the computer appear dumb

[hugo_rune]

Nobody's throwing evidence at me.

You can probably put your shovel down at this point, unless you really, really, want to keep digging

The AI doesn't do anything different - can't do anything different - than you as a human player. That's what SI have stated, it's the way I perceive it, and it's the only way that makes any sense.

That said, when you're having a bad run, it's very easy to see your strikers miss easy shot after easy shot and get frustrated by it. The same happens to the computer as well when you catch them having a bad day - it's just that you don't generally remember what you just saw on the highlights in front of you because you're too busy celebrating your win.

[Azuru]

I'm not talking about not scoring. I'm just saying you can't make the computer play dumb, play around with man marking for as long as you like the computer won't fall for it, it'll play a different style. It simply doesn't fall for 'obvious' traps.

[milnerpoint]

Nobody's throwing evidence at me. And chess programs don't cheat, they're beatable, it's simply making up for the fact that it doesn't have a human brain to think.

Edit: I'm just saying the game won't allow you to rip it apart all the time because it sort of learns via calculations like a chess program, it really feels like you're playing a human. Things just don't feel preset.

And my evidence is in that fact that you will never find a tactic that makes the computer appear dumb

so explain my unbeaten season then, 38 league games no defeats, if the AI was as smart as your making out why did it not find a way in everyone of those games to stop my team, i played each team in the league 4 times, 4 attempts for each ai manager to come up with something, and none could. The ai doesnt learn as you seem to think, it doesnt learn how to counter your tactics and it does not pick a team specifcally to beat you, it just doesnt work as you seem to think, and you have been told this by a lot of people in a lot of different threads. I can fully appreciate fighting your corner mate but honestly your just wrong on this subject and no amount of posting your views will change that.

[hugo_rune]

I'm not talking about not scoring. I'm just saying you can't make the computer play dumb, play around with man marking for as long as you like the computer won't fall for it, it'll play a different style. It simply doesn't fall for 'obvious' traps.

Absolutely, it can, and presumably does,l make changes to tactics in between highlight segments. As a human player, you have the exact same ability (although in practical terms you can't make full use of it unless you're showing the full match, obviously).

[Azuru]

You can't 'trick' the computer out by making it look stupid, it seems to know what you're planning to do and sits deeper and tightly marks etc, completely changing its approach. If things were preset you'd be able to make it look one dimensional, defensively, and make it look dumb

Edit

[2vA]

Playing as Celtic away to AZ in the Europa Cup, AZ get 15 shots, 5 of which were on target, and score 3 goals, a bit annoying, but not what i started this thread about. i got SEVENTEEN shots, and 0 were on target, that is completely ridiculous, especially with Gary Hooper (Finishing 16, Composure 14), Georgios Samaras (Finishing 14, Composure 12, not great so i can understand him not doing great), and most stupid of all, Ruud Van Nistelrooy (Finishing 18, Composure 19). I can handle losing, i can even handle the typical keeper annoyance (getting 12 shots on target to the oppositions 1, and it finishing 1-1), but this is just beyond a joke, getting a huge number of shots, and every. single. shot. being off target. This is the kind of thing in the past thats made me get ****ed and quit the game for months at a time.

1.Happens in real life all the time

2.Stop whining on the forums

3.It's your tactics mate

[Azuru]

Why do people always blame tactics? He didn't say it happens in all of his games. Are you telling me that you score in every. single. match? It's mostly just all down to how that particular match panned out. You can fail to score with the best tactics in the game. Have you people no concept of how the game works yet? There's no tactical set path to winning a match (unless it's tactics that break the ME world), you pick tactics and then 'hope' you win

[wwfan]

The AI manager draws on two things, his tactical preferences in the database and the TC logic. This sets his base tactical structure/style. He also has access to systems of OI logic and shout logic. However, a human manager can easily be more creative in these areas. The match strategy is determined by the reputation of the teams, the 'aggressive v cautious' preference setting of the AI manager (i.e. some AI managers will play for draws earlier than others) and the match scoreline.

The ME has access to the AI manager settings and the human manager settings, being unable to discern between either, and simply calculates the game based on those inputs. The game is played through and the highlights displayed. In the first play through, all the AI tactical changes based on the events in that play through will be present. However, every time the human manager makes a tactical change the game is recalculated and the new set of highlights displayed, which follow the new set of events initiated by that change. The AI manager then makes a new series of tactical changes based on the human manager's change, which repeats again if the human manager changes things again. For example, if the human manager's change means his team rather than the AI's team scores first, then the AI will make a completely different set of decisions in relation to the new scoreline. The human manager can predict those decisions and counter them in advance, forcing the AI to make new changes. The AI has no advantage in 'seeing' things earlier as every time the human manager makes a change, the AI has to react to how that changes the match. As such, strategic decisions play out in real time.

If you don't make any tactical adjustments relating to scoreline, conditions, formations etc, then good AI managers will have an advantage over you. However, if you do so logically and creatively, you will have an advantage over the AI, as its changes are restricted by a certain set of logics, beyond which it cannot deviate. Talking about 'tactics' is unhelpful in many ways. It is not 'tactics' to blame for poor performances (although it can be if you are really clueless in this regard), but poor tactical and strategic decisions prior to and during a match.

[ewok01]

Let's face the facts, the game has changed so much since the days of picking a side, one tactic and winning everything. The real life argument is just that "Real life" this is a game after all. If I can help with this advice. I was really hating this new type of FM game (I loved CM01/02 etc). However when I decided to take my time and here's the biggest thing, "constantly making changes during the game" get you the result. As much as the game has progressed to being very interactive, you really have to be making changes on all levels as the game is being played out. For most that may reply with "oh thats obvious" well for many that have been around these forums for a good decade now. I to have had to change my approach to how I play FM whatever, if you cannot, well simply don't play it. And remember I really did have a hard time changing how I firstly played the game and secondly how much more "involved" players now have to be. We wanted a football sim, well SI delivered. If this was a flight sim it would similar to DCS BlackShark and for those that know that sim, no what I am talking about.

Cheers guys

Le'Roy

[o JaY]

Have you people no concept of how the game works yet?

This made me LOL - irony at it's best :o

[aderow]

Why do people always blame tactics? He didn't say it happens in all of his games. Are you telling me that you score in every. single. match? It's mostly just all down to how that particular match panned out. You can fail to score with the best tactics in the game. Have you people no concept of how the game works yet? There's no tactical set path to winning a match (unless it's tactics that break the ME world), you pick tactics and then 'hope' you win

Don't you get that nothing goes your way 100% of the time no matter how talented your team is?

Hope you win? Are you joking? Mate you are looking at this game in a way that I am wondering how you find any enjoyment in FM.

Yes you can fail to score. Guess what? The best players in the world fail to score. Messi and Ronaldo don't score every time they take a shot do they?

Oh and I have scored in just about every match I have played in the last 6 seasons. You know....even though I have no concept of how the game works.

[Azuru]

Don't you get that nothing goes your way 100% of the time no matter how talented your team is?

Hope you win? Are you joking? Mate you are looking at this game in a way that I am wondering how you find any enjoyment in FM

Well that's just how real life and this game works. And to prove that the game is random too, it's impossible to stop the other team creating goal scoring opportunities and if you're players decide not to score then tough ****, it happens IRL too

[Stemlfc65]

SEVENTEEN shots and none on target? I'm assuming you weren't supposed to have that much shots. But still, some of those should have been on target. I always try to setup my team so that they don't dominate too much because you tend not to get a result if you dominate and have too many shots at goal

Say what? Your tactics need adjusting if you think this is the case.

I always set my team up to dominate possession, home or away. Keeping the ball and giving one or two players the freedom in which to do the damage with a striker who nine times out of ten, will get a goal given an inch.

[KDR]

...if you're players decide not to score then tough ****, it happens IRL too

Do what? Have you ever played football? You don't 'decide' whether to score or not - you try, and sometimes you miss. I used to be a striker and never once did I approach any sort of chance thinking 'Can I be ar$ed to score this?' I always tried to score. Sometimes I did, sometimes I only managed to keep the goalie's hands warm. I even put a few wide or over the top (though not many, relatively speaking).

As for tactics in FM...again, do what?

If you're getting dominated, what do you do? Play a more open and attacking game, pressing high up the pitch with all the players on high creative freedom? Or do you go the other way, play a containing/defensive game with low CF, making sure there is no space in behind and little room in and around the box - forcing the opposition to take pot-shots from range despite all their possession and domination?

Now, if you do that, the AI can do the same - no 'advanced calculations' or anything. If the AI did that, or was even capable of it, you wouldn't create a chance in any game, score, or win. Indeed, you would never dominate, because by your own logic the AI would/could out-think you, anticipating any change you made to ensure dominance, and would give you a battering every single game.

So, instead of conspiracy theories and tin-foil hats, why not try to think as a football manager would: how can I draw these out? Can I play a patient game, then hit them with a ball over the top, etc?

Of course, it might be that the AI doesn't come out at all, sticking with ultra-defensive tactics. It's annoying when teams don't come out for a pasting - just ask Arsene Wenger, who has the most ferocious scowl in the world when teams just sit in and deny Arsenal time and space in the final 3rd. But you have to ask yourself, if it was you on the receiving end, would you open the game up and risk defeat? Of course not. You'll sit tight and think a hard-won point would be as good as a win - and maybe you can still snatch something more on those rare times you get to attack.

Basically sometimes, just sometimes, you need to change. Sometimes it'll work, sometimes it won't. Often it won't. But it's never a case of the AI conning you by artificial means, because if it is/was as you suggest, it needn't let you have a single chance. The fact you can dominate games disproves your theory.

[slipknot67]

First, apologies for bumpimg a kind of old thread but my last game reminded me of it...

Well in my game I hardly ever win when I'm totally dominant. What I do is allow the AI to match my team in ball possession, get it as close as I can, and I tend to win more that way.

Edit: Because the game tends to trigger the 'unlucky' mode if you're too dominant. Remember, I'm saying if you're too dominant

So Azuru, why didn't your so called unlucky mode get triggered for me in my game ?

It seems to me to meet your perceived required criteria for doing so. I scored early (in the first minute) and if the match stats screenshot that your so fond of using to back up your claims of the AI cheating out of a win is anything to go by, performances don't get much more dominant than this.

[ATW]

It can feel like the world is against you when you've lost 9 on the bounce, you know...

Just thought I'd point out that it wasn't.

Nine? Does that mean it is suicide time for me. My record in my current game reads 15 on the trott. And that is after winning my first 2!

[BiggusD]

The whole match isn't predetermined. Changes do change things. However, I think the OP confused bad day/bad form with a sort of rule. When you create lots of chances and your strikers spoil all of them in a ridiculous fashion, there are a few answers as for why: A. They are nervous, B. They are complacent, C. They are in a run of goal drought, D. Their morale is O.K or lower, E. You lost the previous match. There is no such thing as "luck" in FM.

I know what he means though - the frustrating feeling that a tactic and a team that normally rules supreme suddenly seem like elderly men with a mental breakdown. If you get so nervous from the pressure of playing at home against a weaker opponent that your brain melts and your bones shatter, I have a message for you: quit professional football!! (Aka OK morale and OK motivation should be the norm and you should have to fail utterly or succeed completely with your team talk in order to achieve either nervousness or firing them up)

It is also frustrating that I more often than not can see from the moment the animation sequence starts that I am going to concede a goal. It is not that I am psychic - there is too little variation in how they produce chances, and the signs of an immiment goal are so obvious that I often just max out game speed to get it over with. It shouldn't be like that.