8.0.2 player stats go down like hell

[bluehefner]

yes please Si explain or release some sort of small mini fix for it, i cant go back to 8.0.1 because ive already saved my game since using 8.0.2

[celtic_fc]

yes please Si explain or release some sort of small mini fix for it, i cant go back to 8.0.1 because ive already saved my game since using 8.0.2

Is there a way to go back to the old patch as i have two saves of the same game?

[daztomo2k8]

Originally posted by celtic_fc:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">yes please Si explain or release some sort of small mini fix for it, i cant go back to 8.0.1 because ive already saved my game since using 8.0.2

Is there a way to go back to the old patch as i have two saves of the same game? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uninstall FM then install it again and aply 8.0.1 patch maybe? just guessing so dont go mad if im wrong lol

[daztomo2k8]

Originally posted by daztomo2k8:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by celtic_fc:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">yes please Si explain or release some sort of small mini fix for it, i cant go back to 8.0.1 because ive already saved my game since using 8.0.2

Is there a way to go back to the old patch as i have two saves of the same game? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uninstall FM then install it again and aply 8.0.1 patch maybe? just guessing so dont go mad if im wrong lol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

im not sure whether you can move your saved game files somewhere so you dont lose them when you uninstall

[bluehefner]

this is what i thought, i re-installed my game, re-applied the 8.0.1 patch and moved my save game back into the appropriate folder and it won't load up...

...and i wud say the reason is because i saved it under the 8.0.2 patch it wont load with the 8.0.1 patch because obviously there will be date from 8.0.2 in my save game that is not in my 8.0.1 patched game

[daztomo2k8]

yeah thats the reason, so you saved over your 8.0.1 saved game with your new 8.0.2 game? if so then sorry to say you wont be able to play your 8.0.1 saved game and will have to start from new

[bluehefner]

well yes but im not prepared to start from new, i just want to know the full extent of the attribute changes, i may carry on the save under 8.0.2 if the attribute changes aren't as bad as first feared, i don't mind if they initialy go down then creep back up under the new rules...

but only SI can tell us this.....*hints*

[isuckatfm]

Is there a way to go back to the old patch as i have two saves of the same game?

Uninstall FM then install it again and aply 8.0.1 patch

For those looking to do this here's some links for 8.01. I didn't upload them myself so I can't vouch for their authenticity. I found them by typing football manager 8.01 rapidshare in Yahoo and clicking on the first link in the list (it is for a football forum but posting links to other forums is frowned upon so I being the altar boy that I am I won't post the link to the forum)

Rapidshare Links:

http://rapidshare.com/files/71392982/fm2008_801_boxed-pc.exe.001

http://rapidshare.com/files/71389670/fm2008_801_boxed-pc.exe.002

Use HJSplit (found here http://www.freebyte.com/hjsplit/#win32) to join the files once downloaded.

They are on rapidshare so you might want to get them quick in case they get taken down due to inactivity. Also if you use the free service you can bypass the waiting times between downloads by switching your broadband router on and off if your ISP uses dynamic address assignment.

[wwfan]

Originally posted by bluehefner:

well yes but im not prepared to start from new, i just want to know the full extent of the attribute changes, i may carry on the save under 8.0.2 if the attribute changes aren't as bad as first feared, i don't mind if they initialy go down then creep back up under the new rules...

but only SI can tell us this.....*hints*

Training has been debugged, despite the lack of info on the change lists.

[isuckatfm]

originally posted by wwfan:-

Training has been debugged, despite the lack of info on the change lists.

So the attributes is as a result of an intended change and not a bug? So SI's perspective is that other versions were 'wrong'?

In which case I guess I'll have to adjust my expectations for what I can and can't do with training. Back to the drawing board again.

[Coolsvil]

i myself to a cautious approach to installing the new patch, as i am the host of a clan, i needed to be carefull so i saved the 8.0.1 game elsewere before installing the patch, we have done 1 session with 8.0.2 and thankfully we have only lost half a months work after finding this out, so we have decided to go back to 8.0.1 However this is a bit of a pain because of the fact that i want to start my own game with the 8.0.2 patch we need answers SI please.

Btw as there is speculation on whether its our fault due to our training schedules, i had the game that ran to 18th August on 8.0.2 and then i reinstalled my game and ran the save that id saved in a different place which is 8.0.1 to the 18th August, and also i use the default training, only the 8.0.2 version made the stats decline, and as some people are saying that this only happened to their club, take a closer look guys, its aimed at the younger players, on our game it has affected every club in the world.

Also just to add on a final note, some people have speculated that this was intended by SI, i wont believe it till i see it because it hasnt just lowered the stats slightly, its restarted them fully to how they were at the beggining of the game.

[celtic_fc]

Uninstall FM then install it again and aply 8.0.1 patch maybe? just guessing so dont go mad if im wrong lol

im not sure whether you can move your saved game files somewhere so you dont lose them when you uninstall

Cheers, I'll wait till the morning and see if theres any news from SI, if not then i'll give it a go and see if it works

[wwfan]

Originally posted by isuckatfm:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">originally posted by wwfan:-

Training has been debugged, despite the lack of info on the change lists.

So the attributes is as a result of an intended change and not a bug? So SI's perspective is that other versions were 'wrong'?

In which case I guess I'll have to adjust my expectations for what I can and can't do with training. Back to the drawing board again. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's all the information I have.

[bluehefner]

what do u mean? will my players attributes ever increase? this is what i mean, we need more specific info on this change

[wwfan]

They will increase and mould once CA is maximised.

[bluehefner]

Originally posted by wwfan:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by isuckatfm:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">originally posted by wwfan:-

Training has been debugged, despite the lack of info on the change lists.

So the attributes is as a result of an intended change and not a bug? So SI's perspective is that other versions were 'wrong'?

In which case I guess I'll have to adjust my expectations for what I can and can't do with training. Back to the drawing board again. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's all the information I have. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

and that does make sence, if this is the case then im happy to plod along on 8.0.2

[Coolsvil]

i dont know if this is of any use but here is a before and after picture of bojan, the before being the bigger picture behind the little one (8.0.1) and the after being the little picture at the front (8.0.2) and being several months after.

i think this is how you show a picture

[isuckatfm]

That's all the information I have.

Thanks for the info wwfan, much appreciated.

[wwfan]

In my personal experience, attributes can and do go up in 8.0.2. As to whether they have reset the attributes in 8.0.1 I know not. That might have been an unintended bug. I would imagine it is not a testable bug during the development of the game, simply because of the amount of builds between 8.0.1 and 8.0.2 (check the match engine history as a guide). If, for example, the issue that causes it happens between build x and build y, but only affects 8.0.1 going directly to build y, not build x to build y, then it will be next to impossible for testers to pick up.

However, in my humble opinion, the engine (which is where FM stands and falls) is so much better in 8.0.2, that a resetting of training improvement, although unfortunate, shouldn't override the overall enjoyment gained via having a quality match experience.

[Coolsvil]

Originally posted by Coolsvil:

i dont know if this is of any use but here is a before and after picture of bojan, the before being the bigger picture behind the little one (8.0.1) and the after being the little picture at the front (8.0.2) and being several months after.

i think this is how you show a picture

sorry didnt work, here....

i give up if this picture doesnt work

[bluehefner]

Originally posted by Coolsvil:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Coolsvil:

i dont know if this is of any use but here is a before and after picture of bojan, the before being the bigger picture behind the little one (8.0.1) and the after being the little picture at the front (8.0.2) and being several months after.

i think this is how you show a picture

sorry didnt work, here....

i give up if this picture doesnt work </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes surely this is a big error? after several months a player has got nothing but worse? god this is confusing

[sitruc03]

I'm curious to know if this happens if you start a new game with 8.0.2, but use the 8.0.1 database (I hate having the January transfers included at the start...). I'm going to try it out now (as soon as I get the patch installed) so I'll be back to let you know unless someone beats me to it.

[Come Clarity]

This is a guess:

SI may have modified the player progression model used in 8.0/8.01.

From what I can see a lot of the attribute changes have been happening to players early in their 20's, late in their teens, i.e. those with quite a few years before they hit their full potential.

PA's were reached quite quickly before, so this may be a sign of them just pulling back 20 year olds CAs so that they reach their peak at 28/29 instead of 23 or so.

I hardly think it's a joke, as ultimately it doesn't matter really. If all players are 'dropped' so to speak, then the playing field remains the same relatively speaking.

[cyber_fm]

Originally posted by Come Clarity:

This is a guess:

SI may have modified the player progression model used in 8.0/8.01.

From what I can see a lot of the attribute changes have been happening to players early in their 20's, late in their teens, i.e. those with quite a few years before they hit their full potential.

PA's were reached quite quickly before, so this may be a sign of them just pulling back 20 year olds CAs so that they reach their peak at 28/29 instead of 23 or so.

I hardly think it's a joke, as ultimately it doesn't matter really. If all players are 'dropped' so to speak, then the playing field remains the same relatively speaking.

I agree with his statement..

[Asmodeus]

Originally posted by sitruc03:

I'm curious to know if this happens if you start a new game with 8.0.2, but use the 8.0.1 database (I hate having the January transfers included at the start...). I'm going to try it out now (as soon as I get the patch installed) so I'll be back to let you know unless someone beats me to it.

Doubt it very much, as this explanation nails what's going on in my game:

Originally posted by Come Clarity:

This is a guess:

SI may have modified the player progression model used in 8.0/8.01.

From what I can see a lot of the attribute changes have been happening to players early in their 20's, late in their teens, i.e. those with quite a few years before they hit their full potential.

PA's were reached quite quickly before, so this may be a sign of them just pulling back 20 year olds CAs so that they reach their peak at 28/29 instead of 23 or so.

I hardly think it's a joke, as ultimately it doesn't matter really. If all players are 'dropped' so to speak, then the playing field remains the same relatively speaking.

The majority of my squad fit this criteria, and it's them that have declined drastically. My players in their mid-twenties have relatively stable attributes.

[tjb2376]

There really is no pleasing some people.

"Give me a patch SI!!"

"Where's the patch SI?"

"Gimme, gimme, gimme"

Patch arrives...

10 seconds after it's out, everyone is moaning.

Never mind it being 'demoralising' to have to start a new game, I bet it's demoralising working at SI and listening to people constantly bitch about everything when they can barely have had time to test the new patch!

[Asmodeus]

Originally posted by tjb2376:

There really is no pleasing some people.

"Give me a patch SI!!"

"Where's the patch SI?"

"Gimme, gimme, gimme"

Patch arrives...

10 seconds after it's out, everyone is moaning.

Never mind it being 'demoralising' to have to start a new game, I bet it's demoralising working at SI and listening to people constantly bitch about everything when they can barely have had time to test the new patch!

It is if you've invested a lot of time in developing a young team over 12-15 seasons only to see the work seemingly undone before your eyes.

[RoyalHankey]

I just looked at the picture, and the picture at the back is actually the game not a screenshot, only the picture in front is a screenshot as it has got the menus. Have you got mixed up, if you have how have you taken a picture of what is happening in the future. Hope I am wrong but I doubt it.

Originally posted by Coolsvil:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Coolsvil:

i dont know if this is of any use but here is a before and after picture of bojan, the before being the bigger picture behind the little one (8.0.1) and the after being the little picture at the front (8.0.2) and being several months after.

i think this is how you show a picture

sorry didnt work, here....

i give up if this picture doesnt work </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[RoyalHankey]

sorry cancal that i got mixed up

Originally posted by RoyalHankey:

I just looked at the picture, and the picture at the back is actually the game not a screenshot, only the picture in front is a screenshot as it has got the menus. Have you got mixed up, if you have how have you taken a picture of what is happening in the future. Hope I am wrong but I doubt it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Coolsvil:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Coolsvil:

i dont know if this is of any use but here is a before and after picture of bojan, the before being the bigger picture behind the little one (8.0.1) and the after being the little picture at the front (8.0.2) and being several months after.

i think this is how you show a picture

sorry didnt work, here....

i give up if this picture doesnt work </div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[PaulC]

Ok folks, I'll tell you exactly what is happening here.

If you are seeing a drop in some of your players' attributes after a short time playing 8.0.2, then its because we have modified the CA-attribute balance slightly. The algorithm we used in FM2008 was less harsh than the one in FM2007, and this was contributing to some of the flaws in the match engine, with an overload on certain types of attacking player. As a result we have modified the algorithm for 8.0.2 to be a halfway point between 7.0.2 and 8.0.1.

To clarify, its not training related, and it has no bearing on player CA progression over time. That doesnt mean progression hasnt been tweaked itself, because it has but that is a separate issue.

Cheers,

Paul

ps The reason you see the red arrows is simply that the game *thinks* training has modified the attributes, but you can ignore the initial red arrows because its down to something else.

[Asmodeus]

Originally posted by PaulC:

Ok folks, I'll tell you exactly what is happening here.

If you are seeing a drop in some of your players' attributes after a short time playing 8.0.2, then its because we have modified the CA-attribute balance slightly. The algorithm we used in FM2008 was less harsh than the one in FM2007, and this was contributing to some of the flaws in the match engine, with an overload on certain types of attacking player. As a result we have modified the algorithm for 8.0.2 to be a halfway point between 7.0.2 and 8.0.1.

To clarify, its not training related, and it has no bearing on player CA progression over time. That doesnt mean progression hasnt been tweaked itself, because it has but that is a separate issue.

Cheers,

Paul

ps The reason you see the red arrows is simply that the game *thinks* training has modified the attributes, but you can ignore the initial red arrows because its down to something else.

So does this mean that we can expect our younger players to increase again in the future after the initial decline (PA permitting)?

[www2]

Originally posted by PaulC:

Ok folks, I'll tell you exactly what is happening here.

If you are seeing a drop in some of your players' attributes after a short time playing 8.0.2, then its because we have modified the CA-attribute balance slightly. The algorithm we used in FM2008 was less harsh than the one in FM2007, and this was contributing to some of the flaws in the match engine, with an overload on certain types of attacking player. As a result we have modified the algorithm for 8.0.2 to be a halfway point between 7.0.2 and 8.0.1.

To clarify, its not training related, and it has no bearing on player CA progression over time. That doesnt mean progression hasnt been tweaked itself, because it has but that is a separate issue.

Cheers,

Paul

ps The reason you see the red arrows is simply that the game *thinks* training has modified the attributes, but you can ignore the initial red arrows because its down to something else.

First to say that english is not my language, but after reading this twice I still dont understand.

This means what? My best player with 18-19 in speed, acc., heading,composure and jumping droped his ratings to 16-17 and will not gain them back in those positions, but rather in some other areas or what?????????

[flibby7]

Originally posted by CoskuN OzdemiR:

Hi Flibby7

Im sorry, is your game skin name please. Because very nicein dowland

Hi there CoskuN, the skin is called "Flex", you can download it from www.sortitoutsi.net and other various Football Manager websites.

Thank you for the reply Paul C, it's nice to hear a reason why it is happening. I have a couple of questions but I've no doubt they'll be answered soon by other people, one was already asked in the post above this one so I'll just keep and eye on this thread.

[PaulC]

Originally posted by Asmodeus:So does this mean that we can expect our younger players to increase again in the future after the initial decline (PA permitting)?

It has no effect on their ability to improve.

Originally posted by flibby7:First to say that english is not my language, but after reading this twice I still dont understand.

This means what? My best player with 18-19 in speed, acc., heading,composure and jumping droped his ratings to 16-17 and will not gain them back in those positions, but rather in some other areas or what?????????

It means the new algorithm considered his attributes too high for his CA, and adjusted them. If he improves, then his attributes in general will rise....obviously which attributes change depends on his position, his age and his training regime.

A quick rule of thumb for attribute progression:

- Mental attributes grow through career

- Technical may grow less as they are essentially "natural". Training can improve them to a degree.

- Some physical attributes ( eg jumping, strength, stamina ) can grow when a player is young.

- Some physical attributes ( eg stamina, pace, acceleration ) will start to drop when a player hits a certain age.

Each attribute is worth X CA points for each player, depending on his position(s). So for each rise, there should be a CA increase. If his CA is maxed out, each rise will see a fall elsewhere. And vice versa.

I wont give any more away than that, as its mainly common sense anyway

[Powermonger]

A quick rule of thumb for attribute progression:

- Mental attributes grow through career

- Technical may grow less as they are essentially "natural". Training can improve them to a degree.

- Some physical attributes ( eg jumping, strength, stamina ) can grow when a player is young.

- Some physical attributes ( eg stamina, pace, acceleration ) will start to drop when a player hits a certain age.

Now I'm confused, this sounds like not many attributes can increase much through training, unless my lack of caffeine is stopping me from comprehending properly.

[PaulC]

Good training can help all attributes that the training schedule emcompasses. Bad training, or a lack of it ( injury etc ) may see them drop.

The positive trends I mention above require a player to be in training to work. The better the training in relation to each attribute, the more likely you will see the positive trends.

[Powermonger]

Originally posted by PaulC:

Good training can help all attributes that the training schedule emcompasses. Bad training, or a lack of it ( injury etc ) may see them drop.

The positive trends I mention above require a player to be in training to work. The better the training in relation to each attribute, the more likely you will see the positive trends.

Ah okay I got you now...I'll go get me that coffee I think Thanks for the clarification.

[trebor1185]

- Technical may grow less as they are essentially "natural". Training can improve them to a degree.

Does this mean that new youngsters will have slightly better starting attributes in the technical section to compensate for the lesser growth?

[PatsyP]

Thanks Paul for the quick reply.

So, the players that we possess in our squad are just as good as they were in 8.0.1?

We just have to ignore the training arrows for a while?

[Wijnand fens]

I have a saved game, I just started with season 27 of my salernitana game,

I'm 27 seasons the manager of salernitana, from serie c to serie A

So, I don't install the patch

Please SI fix this terrible bug

[PaulC]

Originally posted by trebor1185:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">- Technical may grow less as they are essentially "natural". Training can improve them to a degree.

Does this mean that new youngsters will have slightly better starting attributes in the technical section to compensate for the lesser growth? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Correct, in general!

Originally posted by PatsyP:

Thanks Paul for the quick reply.

So, the players that we possess in our squad are just as good as they were in 8.0.1?

We just have to ignore the training arrows for a while?

Yes, their CA is intact. Ignore the arrows for a period of time.

[flibby7]

Are you sure that is the case PaulC in respects of the higher physical stats of regens? I kept a save game which was 3 weeks before I got my youth intake so I could test some regens in 8.0.2 and they seem very similar and in some respects just as bad when it comes to physical stats. I did have a couple that had immense pace and acceleration but when it came to strength and stamina some of these figures were as low as 2, and no one of them was higher than 10 in those two fields. I tested about 15 intakes, totalling about 100 regens.

If not is not a suitable way to test that them sorry and please disregard this post, I just can't seem to see a difference in this patch and the physical stats still look very poor and it's worrying me that long term games are out of the question until FM 2009.

[Wijnand fens]

thanks paul, I install the patch

I hope you understand my worry about my 27 seasons with salernitana saved game.

[PaulC]

Originally posted by flibby7:

Are you sure that is the case PaulC in respects of the higher physical stats of regens? I kept a save game which was 3 weeks before I got my youth intake so I could test some regens in 8.0.2 and they seem very similar and in some respects just as bad when it comes to physical stats. I did have a couple that had immense pace and acceleration but when it came to strength and stamina some of these figures were as low as 2, and no one of them was higher than 10 in those two fields. I tested about 15 intakes, totalling about 100 regens.

If not is not a suitable way to test that them sorry and please disregard this post, I just can't seem to see a difference in this patch and the physical stats still look very poor and it's worrying me that long term games are out of the question until FM 2009.

Their strength and stamina can grow in the first few years of their career.

To say long term games are out of the question in 8.0.2 is cutting your nose off to spite your face, in all honesty.

[andyinuk]

Originally posted by Wijnand fens:

I have a saved game, I just started with season 27 of my salernitana game,

I'm 27 seasons the manager of salernitana, from serie c to serie A

So, I don't install the patch

Please SI fix this terrible bug

huh?

[isuckatfm]

@PaulC

Do the base levels for training still apply i.e. the default General schedule will give a steady rate of progression if CA points are still available, and will maintain attributes at this level once the relevant controlling aspects of the development model are maxed (ignoring the general oscillations about this 'natural' attribute level due to morale, condition, fatigue etc.)?

I hope that makes sense

[flibby7]

Thanks for the reply PaulC

I'll run with it I guess, see how it turns out, but it's not just strength and stamina, I have defenders coming in that look the business in terms of heading/marking/tackling yet have sub 5 for concentration and positioning (this is from the 8.0.2 intake).

Yeah I might get a regen defender that gets to 20 for heading/jumping/tackling, but it's all for nothing if his strength, positioning, jumping and concentration were sub 10... or am I missing a vital point somewhere that I'm overlooking? Sorry if I'm sounding constantly negative, I'm more curious is all.

[karan316]

Thanks for all the prompt replies Paul

Couple of quick questions

1. Is this why the starting attributes for young players are now lower? Pablo Piatti and Torje are prime examples as each of their attributes starts out 2 points lower than it used to in 8.0.1 but I checked in the editor and their CA is untouched.

2. Could you give us some information on how training progression has been tweaked? On 8.0.0 it was possible to gain 2-3 points in each attribute over the course of a season, then on 8.0.1 you were lucky if your players gained 1 point in each attribute each season. Is 8.0.2 somewhere in between as several people felt 8.0.1 progression was too slow

3. Is it possible for pace and acceleration to increase? These attributes hardly ever went up in 8.0.1. Agian going back to the Torje example, he now starts with pace 13 and acceleration 14 (as opposed to 15 and 16) on 8.0.1 so if these never go up there's not much chance of him turning into a great winger.

Again, thanks for your responses

[PaulC]

Ok, my last post for a while as I have lots to do!

Do the base levels for training still apply i.e. the default General schedule will give a steady rate of progression if CA points are still available, and will maintain attributes at this level once the relevant controlling aspects of the development model are maxed (ignoring the general oscillations about this 'natural' attribute level due to morale, condition, fatigue etc.)?

That sounds about right

I have defenders coming in that look the business in terms of heading/marking/tackling yet have sub 5 for concentration and positioning (this is from the 8.0.2 intake)

But mental attributes such as concentration and positioning can increase all the way through a player's career. If they all start too high they will max out or stop improving. if ever FM simulated player "experience", then its here.

1. Is this why the starting attributes for young players are now lower? Pablo Piatti and Torje are prime examples as each of their attributes starts out 2 points lower than it used to in 8.0.1 but I checked in the editor and their CA is untouched.

2. Could you give us some information on how training progression has been tweaked? On 8.0.0 it was possible to gain 2-3 points in each attribute over the course of a season, then on 8.0.1 you were lucky if your players gained 1 point in each attribute each season. Is 8.0.2 somewhere in between as several people felt 8.0.1 progression was too slow

3. Is it possible for pace and acceleration to increase? These attributes hardly ever went up in 8.0.1. Agian going back to the Torje example, he now starts with pace 13 and acceleration 14 (as opposed to 15 and 16) on 8.0.1 so if these never go up there's not much chance of him turning into a great winger.

1. Yes

2. Riz has posted in another thread today here.

3. Only to a point. We see them as essentially natural attributes that players are born with.

Cheers,

Paul

[isuckatfm]

Thanks for your replies PaulC. Your insight into the dark arts of FM training are greatly appreciated