The Yorkshireman, A Libero and No Strikers!

I posted the first part of this elsewhere but thought it would be best creating a separate thread as not everyone will see it in the thread it was in. I see a lot of threads asking how to get a libero to work or how to get a striker-less formation to work. So thought it would be more helpful to have a separate discussion, hence the new thread.

Everyone has an ultimate goal in Football Manager. For some it’s buying a certain player, for others it’s about developing players, and for others still it might be about playing a particular style of football. My holy grail is using a libero and playing striker-less in the same formation.

As I didn’t have the players to play this way when I first took over Sheffield United, it’s something I’ve had to build towards over a number of seasons. I’ve highlighted elsewhere on the blog how I played early on in the game but I’ll just do a brief recap for those who might not have seen it.

This is what I used;

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As you can see it is just a basic 3-1-4-2 with nothing really special about it. This formation served me well and I finished second in the Premiership at the first attempt due to a strong defence. I’ll be doing a separate article about that as there are some interesting points to expand on.

People might think that the tactic doesn’t play nice free flowing football because I am very rigid in style. However, that is not so and the team plays really good football. A lot of people tend to think style dictates the style of football you play but that assumption is wrong. Let me try and explain a little bit further behind the thought process of the style I’ve selected. If we go by this logic;

Very Rigid: Each player is given a job and is supposed to stick to it (usually 5+ different roles across a team)

Rigid: Players are assigned a role that contributes to a specific element of play (Defence, defence & transition, transition & attack, attack)

Balanced: Players focus on their duty (Defend, Support, Attack)

Fluid: Players are given instructions to focus on defence or attack

Very Fluid: Players contribute to all aspects of play

I’m using very rigid because I use five specialised roles. The style you choose (as a guideline) should come down to specialisation vs generalisation. Logic relates to non-specialists requiring more creative freedom to create, whereas specialists should be able to do it in a rigid framework. In theory, the more rigid the philosophy, the more specialist roles it can accommodate.

If we take a look at the creative freedom framework very rigid gives me, it looks like this;

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Now lets compare this against a very fluid framework;

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As you can see it gives people greater creative freedom. I need specific players to do specific jobs or my whole tactic will be undermined, so I’ve chosen against it. I have player roles set that will influence my play rather than having everyone do a bit of everything.

In the tactic above, I have 5 players doing specialised roles. Non-specialist roles pretty much describe a position on the pitch, i.e. central defender, defensive midfielder, central midfielder etc. If the role focuses on what a player does, rather than the position he plays in, i.e. anchoring the midfield, being a playmaker, poaching etc, then it is specialist role.

wwfan helped design and create the tactics creator and here is what he classes as general and special roles;

“I consider the following to be specialist:

Target Man

Poacher

Trequartista

Advanced Playmaker

Deep Lying Playmaker

Ball Winning Midfielder

Anchor Man

Libero

These five roles can fit in either camp, depending on your interpretation.

Complete Forward

Defensive Forward

Defensive Winger

Box to Box Midfielder

Ball Playing Defender

Generic roles:

Advanced Forward

Deep Lying Forward

Attacking Midfielder

Central Midfielder

Defensive Midfielder

Inside Forward

Winger

Wide Midfielder

Wing Back

Full Back

Central Defender

Sweeper

I don’t include keepers.”

Specialist roles explain what the player does, i.e (playmaking, anchoring, poaching). Generic roles focus only on the players’ position.

Now the above are only guidelines and you can work outside of those parameters. But ideally if you are not comfortable with how the game works or find yourself struggling then you should take the above into consideration.

If we now look back at my own shape we’ll see I have a Libero, deep-lying playmaker, advanced playmaker and a ball-winning midfielder. Now that is only four and I said I used five. The other one I use is defensive wingers who can fit into either catergory depending on how you define them. In my set up they are specialised because they need to do a certain job and play a certain way down the wings. My wings are vulnerable to attacks so if they don’t do a specific job I’ll get teams creating a massive headache for me. That is why I class them as specialised.

I could have got away with playing just rigid and it should work but I want to ensure my specialised roles are the focal point of the tactic and that they dictate how I play. I want to emphasis these roles so going very rigid allows for this more so than the other style options.

I think I’ve babbled on enough about style now, but hopefully it makes you think about it a bit more the next time you are choosing a style. Take a bit of time and look at your player roles and duties and see how it all fits together.

To make things a bit easier during games as I tend to change strategy during a game quite often, I load up the same tactic three times. But I have a different strategy and different settings selected. I’ll show you what I mean with the screenshots below (ignore the player roles);

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As you can see the settings are different in both these and the one above. It just makes things a lot easier for when I do need to change the strategy during a game as the players will know the new instructions. Those are the three main strategies that I use and its very rare if at all than I use any other.

To stop this being too large for one article I’ve decided it will be best to split them up into three articles for now. There is this one above then the next one will focus on the players and their strength’s and weaknesses. Then the third one will be about the analysis side of things

This is the second part of the articles I am writing and will focus on the players and why it all fits together in Football Manager. So let's take a look at my players and their attributes that I need them to have and explain why.

The defence is always important for any side. So lets take a look at my defence and see who my defenders are and what they offer to the tactic. As well as discussing their role.

Strength’s

Shot stopping, Movement, Awareness, Organisation and Aerial ability

Weaknesses

Workrate and Speed

His strengths far outweigh his weaknesses for me. Having him better at pace and acceleration would have been a nice bonus though but I’m confident I can get that to raise over a few seasons with the right training programme. All of his strength’s that I have listed above are what I need as a relegation battling side. If my keeper can cope with stuff my defenders fail to clear or when they get beat then I have a very good chance of staying up. Due to me playing with three at the back the keepers job is even more important because at times my defenders might get exposed. So when this happens I need to know that I can rely on my keeper been able to do the best he can.

What he offer to the team.

Having a good keeper is vital for everyone but even more so when you play a risky game like I do. Having three at the back with no defensive midfielder to shield them means any mistakes from the midfield not tracking someone or a ball over the top can be risky. As the defence would go to deal with it and this would leave me exposed. So I need to be confident that if this does happen that my keeper would be able to do a job when required.

Strength’s

Experience was a key factor here and he was cheap, like really cheap. He cost me £1.3 million to buy. He can do all the hard work at he back and based on his attributes should be reliable. He can tackle, jump, head, mark and is strong, a work horse and a team player. He has everything I need and look for in at least one of my centrebacks.

Weaknesses

Bravery, quickness, aggression

His weaknesses aren't that bad and you don't need to play with fast defenders. While it can be a bonus to have speed I don't particularly find it essential. It can help with recovering from mistakes like a mis-timed challenge or something but I'm hoping he'll be solid enough regardless and won't make that many mistakes.

What he offer to the team.

His work ethic and physical side of the game are what my defence need. I like to have a good mix in defence and have defenders who can compliment each other. When I do part three of the article you'll see what he can do during a game in more detail. But he is really solid and his positional play is top class.

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Strength’s

Marking, Tackling, Strength and Fitness.

Weaknesses

I still think he is too young to have any glaring flaws just yet. As he ages and I shape him to the defender I want though then this might change. He is quite an all round defender and seems to be able to do most things.

What he offer to the team.

I'm not sure if anyone else thought the same when they saw Roland and Rugani, but I see Rugani as his natural replacement over the next few seasons. Rugani seems to have age on his side and potential according to the scouts and coaches. I'd even go as far as saying he'll become better than Roland and be more all around while still offering me all the same strengths.

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Strength’s

Stamina, dribbling, strength, agility, balance, tackling, marking and heading.

Weaknesses

Team work, workrate, technique and off the ball. Plus the fact he isn't a libero and will need to be retrained for this position.

What he offer to the team.

The strength's and weaknesses might seem a bit odd at first but remember this player will be my libero. He's not ideal but the libero's died out a long time ago. So on Football Manager it is hard to find someone who will tick all the boxes. He is young enough to be trained though and made into a better libero with some individual focus on his attributes.

I actually don't see him as my long-term libero though. He was bought because I really wanted to use a libero and couldn't find a suitable candidate for the budget I had. So I just bought him regardless so I could start putting my idea's into progress rather than wishing I was playing the way I wanted. His attributes dictate that he'll be a selfish kind of player due to his low team work rating but that can be a good thing when you want the player to come forward more and be an attacking threat. So I don't actually see that as a massive issue from that stand point.

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Strength’s

Dribbling, first touch, technique, decisions and pace

Weaknesses

Tackling and natural fitness

What he offer to the team.

I had been tracking this player since my 2nd season but was never able to afford him. So I decided to save for him and shift a few fringe players on so I could afford him. In total he cost me £19 million which was roughly two seasons budget even with selling the fringe players. Despite that it now says on his profile, he wasn't a sweeper and that appears only after me spending a year training him for that role. He was accomplished as a ML but natural for AMC. He has all the attributes I need to be a great libero.

He's still young enough that I can work on his tackling and raise it. But his attacking attributes are top quality and he brings something to the role that Formiga just doesn't have in his locker. While Formiga might be better defensively, this player is better at attacking. So both my libero's can offer me a different approach depending on what I need from the game. I think it's really important to have someone who plays the same position but plays it differently throughout the team. It makes it easier to change things during a game and know that a player will add a different dimension to the role. Like for like is pointless imo unless it's forced due to injury.

Strength’s

Passing, technique, stamina, decisions,work rate and composure

Weaknesses

For the role he does for the team the only real weakness would be his strength. He doesn't venture forward so doesn't really need pace or acceleration.

What he offer to the team.

He brings to the team a cool under pressure attitude and can stay calm in most situations. He is great with the ball at his feet and doesn't get rushed into bad decision-making very often. Which is important as he tends to stay central more often than now and just be a passing outlet for the others who are making runs in front of him.

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Strength’s

Wow where to start, he is a beast of a player. His physical game is great as are his mental aspects of the game and his technical play isn't too shabby either.

Weaknesses

Doesn't really have one.

What he offer to the team.

This guy is my ball winning midfielder. He is an absolute beast at winning the ball back and feeding it to my defensive right-winger. I see this happening several times a game, they've built up a great partnership between them over the last few seasons. Not only that, but he is also good with the ball at his feet. He can do everything and is probably my most important midfielder at the club just to the sheer quality of his attributes.

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Strength’s

Stamina, strength, first touch, tackling, work rate, marking and passing.

Weaknesses

Aerial ability, balance and agility.

What he offer to the team.

He is a good tidy little player who has only just broke into the first team having been at the club for three seasons now. I paid £2.5 million for the player with the hope he'd become a great player for Sheffield United. So far so good from his performances. However his lack of balance and agility are something to worry about though, Due to them been quite low it means he cannot turn that quickly if he is doing any defensive duties and could see him getting beat by his man if he misses the first tackle. Agility allows the player to turn quickly when they need too and balance stops him falling over. So the fact these are low might harm his overall future at the club and limit what he can do.

I actually use him as the CM or BWM and he really doesn't have his own position yet. This is due to me trying to see where I can best use his talents without relying on him to shield the defence. If he misses his challenge high up the pitch then I have others in the line-up who can deal with it and recover the ball. The further back this happens the more of a real issue it becomes. So I tend to keep him as either of those roles.

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Strength’s

Fitness, strength, decisions, off the ball, team work, determination, anticipation, technique, passing, heading and dribbling

Weaknesses

Tackling

What he offer to the team.

I listed tackling as a weakness but it isn't that much of a weakness. Pina started life as a striker, that's what he was when I bought him. However he seemed to have all the attributes I look for in a defensive winger who seem to be really hard to find on Football Manager. When I purchased him he had 12 for the tackling attribute which was what swayed the decision to buy him. He is still only 20 years old and it should be able to rise by a few more. He's also natural in the midfield left position now he's been retrained for the past 12 months.

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Strength’s

Speed, agility, stamina, strength, workrate, technique, marking, dribbling and crossing.

Weaknesses

Bravery, natural fitness and heading.

What he offer to the team.

I paid £2.8 million for this player when he was 17 years old. He was a natural attacking midfielder but I saw potential in him to play as a defensive winger. So I've spent the past 3 seasons training him up for this role and making him natural for it. I've also worked on his attributes a fair bit too. While his development still is not complete, he is coming along great and is an integral part of the club.

I mentioned further up the post about how the ball winning midfielder wins the ball back and plays it to this player. This is highlighted in his goals and assists return. While he might be playing as a defensive winger, it doesn't mean all his play is defensive. He can be really attacking at times and offers me a great attacking threat from out wide.

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Strength’s

Speed, strength, agility, stamina, anticipation, off the ball, finishing, technique and first touch.

Weaknesses

Passing and work rate

What he offer to the team.

This player was a pure striker and cost me £650k from Blackburn four seasons again, absolute steal!!!!

Again I've retrained him to be able to play in the attacking midfield slot as he is the player I use as the inside forward. He gets a lot of goals and this is where most of my goals come from (although I do get a fair amount spread throughout the team too). He is still young too so can improve a bit more yet according to my backroom staff, which is a plus. He links up brilliantly with the attacking playmaker as we will see in the next part when I post the analysis up.

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Strength’s

Creativity, passing, decisions, technique, first touch and composure.

Weaknesses

Finishing and strength.

What he offer to the team.

I have actually been using this player as the deep-lying playmaker (well rotating) but from now on he will be the advance playmaker. The reason for this is I have been using Davide Petrucci from Manchester United as the AP but have just sold him. This was always going to be the case as he was holding me back and while he did a good job, someone more suitable can do an even better job. Especially as I am getting stronger each season.

So with this in mind, I've been using James as the DLP but been working on his attributes to be an attacking threat for when I move him to the AP slot. He's played a handful of games there this season when I've had injuries and done really well. I'm hoping that next season he will get a lot more assists and goals because he will be further forward and has the attributes to link up with the IF and form a good partnership.

This is the third installment of this current series and will focus on the players and their behavior in an actual match on Football Manager.

I'll be showing a lot of analysis of how the players work and what they do during a game. I'll also be adding analysis of how I deal with certain formations and showing how I set up to beat them, as well as focusing on the issues certain types of formations cause my own shape. I have no idea how many parts this will take though, but I should imagine they'll be at least five more at the very minimum.

I guess a good place to start would be with the libero and showing you the sort of things he does in games. What he does in a game actually varies on how I utilise him. In some games against lesser sides he pushes forward more due to the opposition not really attacking much. Against the stronger sides he is naturally pushed back by the opposition and made to pick people up and track runners. Here is his passing stats from a recent home game against Liverpool;

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For this game Liverpool used a flat 4-5-1. This meant that at times my libero has runners to pick up when they broke past my midfield. Against formations that don't have the quality to attack centrally he tends to play slightly higher up and acts more like a defensive midfielder in those games rather than a defender.

In the game above he saw a lot of the ball and had a very passing completed ratio of 94.7%. But if you look at the screenshot you'll also see Grolleau seemed to be more involved in terms of passes attempted. This is because Esparza is instructed to collect the ball from the keeper, so during a game he naturally comes deeper than the other centrebacks. In this particular game he was being closed down heavily by Suarez which means my right-sided centreback was free for a pass. This was the reason why Grolleau saw more of the ball because Esparza was using him wisely and linking up with him. This screenshot highlights this;

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In that screenshot Esparza is about to be closed down but rather than play it to his left he chooses the right side instead. I believe this to be down to his decision-making, he sees that passing the ball to his left would put that player under pressure. He know's this could be an issue so uses the simpler, safer option. Someone who is less composed and has lower decisions might have panicked and been forced into an error.

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The above screenshot shows a different aspect of his play but from the same game. When attacking he tends to occupy these kinds of areas. In the screenshot he is the player circled. The blue line represents him about to receive the ball. The red arrows show his passing options and the black arrow indicates how he could drive forward into space if he wished to do so. He has lots of space, time and options available to him. This move doesn't really come to anything though, he drives forward and passes it to his team-mate, who then passes it back and the move starts again.

My way of playing can be very risky, especially against counter attacks when I lose the ball high up the pitch after committing men forward. The next screenshot highlights this problem;

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It looks really bad in this screenshot because I lost the ball when attacking. Suarez is in the middle unmarked and is about to have the ball played to him. However Esparza is aware of the danger and has positioned himself accordingly to get across and deal with the threat. It also looks like my centreback's are miles away from play too, but that isn't the case as you'll see below;

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Esparza cut across Suarez and dealt with the situation with ease and passed it to the other defender. He gets quite a few interceptions during a game. In this particular game he got 8. As well as all this he can also put in a tackle and win the ball back.

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In the above screen it shows Liverpool once again looking to go direct with their passing to find Suarez. This time Esparza is positioned behind Suarez and is stepping up to deal with the threat. At the same time my outer two defenders are dropping deeper to provide some cover and deal with any mistake the libero makes. He didn't make a mistake though and wins the ball, plays it to the DLP who plays it to the left-sided defender and then I start to play out from the back.

You can utilise a libero or sweeper in many different ways, it can be a very versatile role. In the harder games I play I like him to be more defensive minded but still get involved high up the pitch. In these type of games I expect him to have a good amount of tackles, interceptions and pick up any runners through the centre.

In the easier games I like him to be more attack minded and act as another MC morealess. This is what I love about a libero, it can free up a spare man from the back when you don't have much attacking threat to worry about from the opposition. In these games I like the libero to do more key passes and retain the ball in the oppositions half and restart attacks should they clear the ball.

The libero does a lot of things during a game and he isn't always attacking and he isn't always defensive. His play is really varied and he offers a lot to the team. I might go into more details about the libero if people are wanting and show other various games. But for now I think I'll leave it at that and focus on some of the other areas of the tactic and why it works so well.

This is the fourth installment in the series and continues the analysis part of the series. This time I focus on the role of the defensive wingers and take a look at what they do both in attacking and defending phases of play.

One of the most important parts of the shape I use and why it functions so well is the defensive wingers. They offer a bit of everything and involved a lot in all aspects of play. Firstly, lets take a look at the settings for the left-sided more attack minded defensive winger.

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If you view the screenshots, so you can better understand why one might do something the other doesn’t. Another reason for the different duties is on the left side the inside forward always stays central so there is lots of space down the channels that can be exploited. On the right side the attacking playmaker tends to drift around and moves into the channels, so there isn’t that natural space that appears on the left side. Another factor is also the ball winning midfielder, he often tends to win the ball just inside the oppositions half. So if the right-sided defensive winger hangs back a little, they can create overlaps and intelligent link up play. If he was more advanced this wouldn’t happen and the ball winning midfielder was pass inwards or centrally.

I know I always bang on about this, but you really do need to put thought into what a player does in a game and then fit the roles and duties around that. It’s not always easy to do but then again it’s not supposed to be easy. I often find myself pausing the game in both defensive and attacking phases of play. When you do this, you can clearly see the players positions and see who is doing what. I also change the camera angle’s so I fully see what every single player on the pitch is doing at that particular time. It can be a great way or seeing which players are in support and creating space. You can also identify problems with marking and the shape of the opposition. You can see if someone is unmarked or not been picked up, or whether your own players are being caught out of position.

Those are the stats for a much win game in the Champion’s League against Bayern. This game involved him being more defensive minded than actually attacking. That is due to Bayern been the better club and favourites to win the game. Bayern lined up in a flat 4-2-3-1 so Pina was left to deal with Thomas Müller. As you can see from the above screenshot he made the most attempts to tackle and won seven of them.

Those are the kind of area’s he found himself passing in for this game. Against lesser opposition majority of these would be around the half way line mark.

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Those are the areas he attempted tackles in. He managed to lose three inside my own half, so lets take a look at one of them and see if it was costly and to determine why it was lost.

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In the above screenshot you can see that Bastian Schweinsteiger is trying to make a run between Pina (inside the circle) and Oscar. The screenshot below highlights Pina attempting to get across and make a challenge but he misses it.

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Luckily it doesn’t result in any danger and I do have appropriate cover to deal with him missing the challenge. Oscar cuts across and deals with it. It actually results in a free kick when Bastian Schweinsteiger brings down Oscar.

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The reason for showing this was because I feel sometimes I don’t show the mistakes enough. But also to show that the defensive winger tracks back as I often get a lot of questions and people seem worried that they don’t track back enough. When in fact, at times both the defensive wingers slot into the back three and make it a back five. So it can be really solid, often people think the positions on the formation screen are the position people play in. It’s not though and the roles/duties etc all play a part in what position the player takes up and dictate what he does in the game. Just because someone might be positioned as a Midfielder left side, doesn’t actually mean that is where he is playing once the game kicks off.

The next part will focus on his positional play and making interceptions.

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While this screenshot looks like my players aren’t marking or picking anyone up, I assure you that’s not the case as you’ll see in the next part of the move. Llorente is being forced across the midfield and does a ball into Gomez who is the striker.

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Gomez heads the ball down towards the path of Thomas Müller. But Pina places himself at an angle so he can cut across and deal with the situation.

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He cuts across, deals with the threat and dribbled towards my own goal for a few metres then passes to the defender and we play out from the back.

I’ve only focused on his defensive side for now and only looked at one game. But I will be doing another piece about his attacking side a little later as it’s quite complex and will take a lot of writing and illustrations to put the points across. The reason for this is because of how it all depends on the players around him on what he actually does during the game. I put the defensive bit out there for now so people can see that they do track back and the wing’s aren’t as vulnerable as you first think when looking at the initial shape.

I was going to write about the other areas of the pitch before talking about the attacking midfielders, however a few people seem to be struggling with the attack side of things and getting them involved in play. So I've decided to write about them now and show how I set them up and how I use them.

One of the main issues I think some of the users seem to be having is they are trying to copy exactly how I've set up which is flawed in itself. You need to understand the importance of the role and what the player brings to the side, this is why I've done some analysis to show this. You might have set the role up fine but might be using the wrong type of player or decided to move the ball winning midfielder to the right side of the pitch. If you've done any of this then you've changed how it works and how it all fits together. Hopefully this will highlight better how it all links together in an attacking sense.

Lets kick things off with these screenshots;

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The black circle shows my ball-winning midfielder after winning the ball back, with his back to goal. The red arrow shows my right sided defensive winger making a run down the wing. The blue circle shows my attacking playmaker jogging back onside and the red circle shows my inside forward ready to turn and attack should the ball come near him.

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This screenshot actually shows the next stage of the move, my ball-winning midfielder actually passed the ball back to my right sided defender. My defensive winger stopped his run and came inside while the ball-winning midfielder took up the defensive wingers position out on the wing.

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In the above screen, my ball-winning midfielder is still occupying the defensive wingers position because the winger came inside. He passes the ball to Shoretire who in this game was just the right sided midfielder. As you can see in the screenshot I don't have anyone getting past the oppositions defence just yet. But at the same time, you can see that my two attacking midfielders are not being marked so have quite a bit of space and time to turn then run at them. The next screenshot shows exactly how the two attacking midfielders function.

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I always bang on about a player having options when in possession, the above screenshot highlights this for me. Shoretire recieves the ball and has three runners all who are good options along side him. He can either play the ball into the little pocket of space towards the channel or he can play in either of the attacking midfielders.

You've probably heard me mention forcing the defence to step up and creating space too if you've read any of my other blog posts. Again this screenshot highlights this. Just look what happened when one of Inter's defenders pushed up to deal with Shoretire who is on the ball. He's created a huge gap in his own defence and now my attacking playmaker is actually unmarked and the inside forward is already ahead of his marker who is facing the wrong way.

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Shoretire actually decided to drive forward which allowed for us to counter attack really quickly and put the opposition onto the back foot. He passes the ball to the playmaker (blue circle) who now has a decision to make. Does he drive forward himself, go wide or pass to the inside forward who is totally free and unmarked. I think we all know which option he'll choose but none the less he does have more than one option available to him.

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The attacking playmaker holds onto the ball for a second or so before placing a time through ball into the path of the inside forward who slots the ball home.

In the set up I use my two attacking midfielders consist of an attacking playmaker and an inside forward. When thinking of an inside forward in the modern game people will think of players like Robben, Hulk, Ribery and so on. Not all of them play the same either and each one of them offers a different type of play to the role. My own set up is exactly the same and the inside forward isn’t your conventional one that you might think of. This isn’t to say he doesn’t do the stereotypical job that you’d expect when an opportunity arises though. But for most parts he is more about using space than dribbling constant with the ball and cutting inside. It’s also worth remembering that my inside forward is actually in the attacking midfielder position on the pitch and isn’t drifting inwards from out wide, he already starts centrally.

Let’s take a look at some of the examples of his different kinds of play that he offers the team.

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The above screenshot and the three that follow below will all show him doing your typical inside forward stuff. In the above image, the inside forward is holding his position (black circle) and the attacking playmaker is the one who is going to make the forward run.

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This image shows the move a second or so later. As you can see, the inside forward still isn’t busting a gut to get forward and seems quite relaxed. The attacking playmaker has also checked his run and started to hang back. The purple arrow shows the route the ball is about to be played.

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This image shows the ball received my defensive winger who heads it down into the path of the inside forward. The red circle shows my attacking playmaker making a run between both the oppositions defenders. This will force them to step up meaning a gap will appear between the fullback and the central defender, which the inside forward is looking to exploit by dribbling into it.

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After driving forward and across goal he finds himself on the edge of the box. The attacking playmaker checked his run and dropped off but by this time Spencer had already used the space created. The centreback’s try coming across goal to make a tackle but it’s too late. He slots the ball between both of them and into the bottom right of the goal, the keeper had no chance.

The above highlights what most would consider the inside forward role to be about, cutting across goal and getting off a shot. However, the role can be so much more and offer a lot more to the team than just this. Here are some other examples of what he offers to the team;

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Some of the reasons why I think agility and balance is important for this role can be seen in this screenshot and the one below. He is playing with his back to the goal and is just about the receive the ball.

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He got the ball at his feet, swiveled and passed it into the path of the attacking midfielder and ball-winning midfielder. Then he begins to utilise the space that appears in front of him.

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This shows his run and where he is trying to get to. Pass and move is what opens defences up and make it possible to use space. if players aren’t making these types of runs then you’ll struggle to break down stubborn defences who sit deep. Movement makes things happen.

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This move resulted in the defensive winger being fouled just inside the box and giving us a penalty. But if you’ve got players making runs like this and using space then you always have a chance at winning games and scoring goals.

Here is another example;

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He’s doing the simple stuff in this one and bringing the ball forward but not with any real urgency. He is retaining the ball and allowing others around him to do the work and waiting for someone to make a run. He actually plays a simple pass to the player to his left.

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Once he’s made the simple pass this is when he changes gear. The red line shows where the ball is about to be played but the inside forward is already making his run forward. You can see that he is unmarked and not being picked up yet.

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The attacking playmaker received the ball and then passes first time into space that the inside forward is running into. So his run will take him into the path of the ball and run onto it so he can get a shot away at goal. Unfortunately for me he hit it straight at the keeper and the keeper saves it with ease. But it was a nice slow and patient build up.

The above examples that show him using space and making runs is what he tends to do majority of the time and one of the reasons why he has scored so many goals this season. This doesn’t mean it’s the only thing he offers the team though. He offers a lot of varied play but its the running that is important for how I’ve set up. If I didn’t have players making runs then my forward attacking play would be rather static and it would be really easy to defend against for the opposition.

For me its all about having options and having players offer something different while at the same time all linking up together and working as a unit. It’s not easy to do and requires the understanding of how the roles all interlinks together and that’s what I am working towards with these series of articles. Next up I’ll be focusing on the attacking playmaker role and what he brings to the table. Then the final part of this post will focus on how all the attack plays together and show you examples and some PKM’s and videos of how it actually works.

I will be adding the analysis parts over the next 2 days.

Really looking forward to the analysis on this - I've been thinking about trying out a Libero too recently, so will be good to see how you make use of it.

Interested to see how this goes and your analysis. Never used a libero personally

I've added the first bit of analysis

I posted the first part of this elsewhere but thought it would be best creating a separate thread as not everyone will see it in the thread it was in. I see a lot of threads asking how to get a libero to work or how to get a striker-less formation to work. So thought it would be more helpful to have a separate discussion, hence the new thread.

The Yorkshireman, A Libero and No Strikers (Part One)

Everyone has an ultimate goal in Football Manager. For some it’s buying a certain player, for others it’s about developing players, and for others still it might be about playing a particular style of football. My holy grail is using a libero and playing striker-less in the same formation.

As I didn’t have the players to play this way when I first took over Sheffield United, it’s something I’ve had to build towards over a number of seasons. I’ve highlighted elsewhere on the blog how I played early on in the game but I’ll just do a brief recap for those who might not have seen it.

This is what I used;

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As you can see it is just a basic 3-1-4-2 with nothing really special about it. This formation served me well and I finished second in the Premiership at the first attempt due to a strong defence. I’ll be doing a separate article about that as there are some interesting points to expand on.

Evolution

This is the shape I decided upon using;

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People might think that the tactic doesn’t play nice free flowing football because I am very rigid in style. However, that is not so and the team plays really good football. A lot of people tend to think style dictates the style of football you play but that assumption is wrong. Let me try and explain a little bit further behind the thought process of the style I’ve selected. If we go by this logic;

Very Rigid: Each player is given a job and is supposed to stick to it (usually 5+ different roles across a team)

Rigid: Players are assigned a role that contributes to a specific element of play (Defence, defence & transition, transition & attack, attack)

Balanced: Players focus on their duty (Defend, Support, Attack)

Fluid: Players are given instructions to focus on defence or attack

Very Fluid: Players contribute to all aspects of play

This is the mentality structure it gives me by using a very rigid approach;

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I’m using very rigid because I use five specialised roles. The style you choose (as a guideline) should come down to specialisation vs generalisation. Logic relates to non-specialists requiring more creative freedom to create, whereas specialists should be able to do it in a rigid framework. In theory, the more rigid the philosophy, the more specialist roles it can accommodate.

If we take a look at the creative freedom framework very rigid gives me, it looks like this;

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Now lets compare this against a very fluid framework;

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As you can see it gives people greater creative freedom. I need specific players to do specific jobs or my whole tactic will be undermined, so I’ve chosen against it. I have player roles set that will influence my play rather than having everyone do a bit of everything.

In the tactic above, I have 5 players doing specialised roles. Non-specialist roles pretty much describe a position on the pitch, i.e. central defender, defensive midfielder, central midfielder etc. If the role focuses on what a player does, rather than the position he plays in, i.e. anchoring the midfield, being a playmaker, poaching etc, then it is specialist role.

wwfan helped design and create the tactics creator and here is what he classes as general and special roles;

“I consider the following to be specialist:

Target Man

Poacher

Trequartista

Advanced Playmaker

Deep Lying Playmaker

Ball Winning Midfielder

Anchor Man

Libero

These five roles can fit in either camp, depending on your interpretation.

Complete Forward

Defensive Forward

Defensive Winger

Box to Box Midfielder

Ball Playing Defender

Generic roles:

Advanced Forward

Deep Lying Forward

Attacking Midfielder

Central Midfielder

Defensive Midfielder

Inside Forward

Winger

Wide Midfielder

Wing Back

Full Back

Central Defender

Sweeper

I don’t include keepers.”

Specialist roles explain what the player does, i.e (playmaking, anchoring, poaching). Generic roles focus only on the players’ position.

Now the above are only guidelines and you can work outside of those parameters. But ideally if you are not comfortable with how the game works or find yourself struggling then you should take the above into consideration.

If we now look back at my own shape we’ll see I have a Libero, deep-lying playmaker, advanced playmaker and a ball-winning midfielder. Now that is only four and I said I used five. The other one I use is defensive wingers who can fit into either catergory depending on how you define them. In my set up they are specialised because they need to do a certain job and play a certain way down the wings. My wings are vulnerable to attacks so if they don’t do a specific job I’ll get teams creating a massive headache for me. That is why I class them as specialised.

I could have got away with playing just rigid and it should work but I want to ensure my specialised roles are the focal point of the tactic and that they dictate how I play. I want to emphasis these roles so going very rigid allows for this more so than the other style options.

I think I’ve babbled on enough about style now, but hopefully it makes you think about it a bit more the next time you are choosing a style. Take a bit of time and look at your player roles and duties and see how it all fits together.

Making Life Easier

To make things a bit easier during games as I tend to change strategy during a game quite often, I load up the same tactic three times. But I have a different strategy and different settings selected. I’ll show you what I mean with the screenshots below;

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As you can see the settings are different in both these and the one above. It just makes things a lot easier for when I do need to change the strategy during a game as the players will know the new instructions. Those are the three main strategies that I use and its very rare if at all than I use any other.

To stop this being too large for one article I’ve decided it will be best to split them up into three articles for now. There is this one above then the next one will focus on the players and their strength’s and weaknesses. Then the third one will be about the analysis side of things

Cleon how many specialist roles would you have in a very rigid tatic. I am currently using a advance playmaker , DLP, box to box midfielder and complefe forward. Do you think i have too much specialist roles

Cleon how many specialist roles would you have in a very rigid tatic. I am currently using a advance playmaker , DLP, box to box midfielder and complefe forward. Do you think i have too much specialist roles

If you read the post you've quoted, I talk about this and talk about what I do....

If you're asking me to tell you what to do, that ain't going to happen:D. Read the post, understand style and what it changes and then make the decision on which to use based on how you want to play and what you want the players to actually do

Very nice thread Cleon and i have read very much of what you wrote, but it's on thing who is confucing me a little bit. I see in your tactic that you use a defensive winger, but if you for example don't have more than one player who could play at one side in this role because of his attributes, but you have another player who are a excellent inside forward, what do you do then? Do you then change the role to be inside forward or do you play him in the DW position even if he is not good there?

The reason i ask this is because i feel that i must change the role sometimes to get good players to fit into my tactic. But like you say, then i get another way to play an sometimes it's not what i'm looking for. I'm very interesting i your thoughts about this?

Maybe you have write about it somewhere else, but i can't remember if i have seen it somewhere.

I have learn't a lot many posts in here, but i want to learn more and be better!

Very nice thread Cleon and i have read very much of what you wrote, but it's on thing who is confucing me a little bit. I see in your tactic that you use a defensive winger, but if you for example don't have more than one player who could play at one side in this role because of his attributes, but you have another player who are a excellent inside forward, what do you do then? Do you then change the role to be inside forward or do you play him in the DW position even if he is not good there?

The reason i ask this is because i feel that i must change the role sometimes to get good players to fit into my tactic. But like you say, then i get another way to play an sometimes it's not what i'm looking for. I'm very interesting i your thoughts about this?

Maybe you have write about it somewhere else, but i can't remember if i have seen it somewhere.

I have learn't a lot many posts in here, but i want to learn more and be better!

When I used the 3-5-2 before it evolved into the above formation, I was actually using people who wasn't defensive wingers in the roles. I talked about it in this thread and show who played every game etc;

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/352483-The-Chalkboard-Diaries

If you want consistency though and stability then I wouldn't advise using an inside forward as the DW in this shape, unless they have good tackling, marking, stamina, workrate etc as it's one of, if not the most important part of the tactic and if these players don't do their jobs then you'll get overrun down the wings.

Cleon, great thread. I read about your Libero suggestions on other threads and was inspired to attempt it with my own strikerless formation i'd been playing with on my Southampton save. Fantastic change, really enjoyed the football it started to produce, watching my Libero move forward and play the ball as well as make great interceptions further up the park.

I find the hardest part is to find the right person for the role, eventually I found the main player wasn't a defender by trade and took a lot of time getting really used to the position and adapting his PPMs etc but totally worth it. Look forward to more updates and potential inspiration

Yeah, I read it now! Thanks!

But generally, you keep the roles as they are in your tactics, even if you don't have a player who can play in that role? Because i play with a striker, and have one who can play as a advanced forward and another is a target man and i my tactic i wanna play with a advanced forward, but i feel it will be wrong to play the target man as a advanced forward, when he don't have the attributes to do that. What do you think about this?

Yeah, I read it now! Thanks!

But generally, you keep the roles as they are in your tactics, even if you don't have a player who can play in that role? Because i play with a striker, and have one who can play as a advanced forward and another is a target man and i my tactic i wanna play with a advanced forward, but i feel it will be wrong to play the target man as a advanced forward, when he don't have the attributes to do that. What do you think about this?

I'm going to link again (sorry about that) but you might be better off reading this and seeing what myself, Lam and lost of others did for this tactic;

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/334248-Understanding-Your-Tactic-The-Discussion

In it, you'll find me playing Defoe as a Treq, Adebayor as a treq and some others. The reason I linked it is it has valuable information in it about playing players in roles they aren't suited to and goes into a lot more in-depth analysis about it. I think it'll be really useful for you

But if you want a short answer, then I guess I'd say understand what the role brings to the tactic and then see how the player plays the role, even if he's not suited to it.

Another great thread. Looking forward to some more analysis.

I have some questions, you started with a 3-2-4-2, whilst you were playing this formation were you developing the other formation in the background? Like as a third tactic so the players got used to it? Also were you re-training the players for their new roles, both position retraining and moulding their attributes to suit these new roles? Did this have much effect on your current form? How long did it take you to make the transition?

EDIT: For you Libero, what do you find are the best PPMs for the role?

Another great thread. Looking forward to some more analysis.

I have some questions, you started with a 3-2-4-2, whilst you were playing this formation were you developing the other formation in the background? Like as a third tactic so the players got used to it? Also were you re-training the players for their new roles, both position retraining and moulding their attributes to suit these new roles? Did this have much effect on your current form? How long did it take you to make the transition?

I didn't start using this shape or learning it until end of the season once I knew I was going to use this the following season. Then I just followed the process of learning it like I set out in the Preseason My Take on it thread I created.

I retrain players as soon as I got them and also worked on their weaker attributes. The time this takes is dependent on the hidden attribute, versatility. So each player is different.

As for my form I went from League One to Championship to Premier League all at the first attempt. Then in my first Prem season I finished 2nd

This is interesting. Can't look at all the screenies as I'm at work, but what tactical instructions do you give your libero? Do you find him actually making runs out of defence without the ball?

This is interesting. Can't look at all the screenies as I'm at work, but what tactical instructions do you give your libero? Do you find him actually making runs out of defence without the ball?

He's attacking and everything is just how the TC sets it up.

As a rule he tends to play around the halfway line, as is shown in some of the screenshots when you can view them. He acts more like a MC when we attack and is involved in play a lot. Obviously this changes dependent on what he actually needs to do in a game and how much defending he has to do. But yeah he makes forward runs when he doesn't have the ball and joins in attacks

Sweet. I have just the player(s) for this sort of role and might give it a go. My defence is pretty solid, but it's nice sometimes against teams with 1 up top to be able to reduce the number of out-and-out defenders and put more creative options on the pitch.

In the summer break of 2019, so I might have a play during pre-season and see if it suits the rest of the team.

Great update - I had a question about Esparza though, his tackling is low yet he seems to be peforming OK. Do you feel his tackling is letting you down? (I know you have a more defensive libero, and choose players dependent on the scenario - but was curious). Not sure I'd have ever taken the gamble on such low tackling, but then I don't get success like you do!

Great update - I had a question about Esparza though, his tackling is low yet he seems to be peforming OK. Do you feel his tackling is letting you down? (I know you have a more defensive libero, and choose players dependent on the scenario - but was curious). Not sure I'd have ever taken the gamble on such low tackling, but then I don't get success like you do!

Tackling is important but if the other attributes make up for it, then it's not really a gamble as such because he is still good defensively. He makes less tackles per game than my more defensive minded libero but offers me more going forward than he does. It comes down to management and selecting the right player for the right game though, so it doesn't cause you issues. His tackling should rise to about 13-14 hopefully though in the coming years.

Do you set the libero as your main playmaker, or do you keep the box unticked?

Do you set the libero as your main playmaker, or do you keep the box unticked?

It shows you what position is the playmaker in the screenshots.

Yeah, wanted to make sure just in case. Thanks!

Great thread Cleon, just wanted to confirm something. In the 4-2-3-1 I play I have a DLP (D) and a DLP (s), are they different roles? I'm slightly confused as to does the five role guideline consist of the broad overall roles or the specialisation within it.

Hi. This is one of my first comments after years of just reading. As ever a fantastic thread so in depth and a pleasure to see such philosophies in writing with a logical explanation. If my memory serves me right didn't Matthias sammer play as a libero for Dortmund in the 90's???? I'm playing as Hayes starting off unemployed but I'm struggling to read the games in full match. Is it easier watching games at a higher level than the lower leagues due to the lower standards of players?

Great thread Cleon, just wanted to confirm something. In the 4-2-3-1 I play I have a DLP (D) and a DLP (s), are they different roles? I'm slightly confused as to does the five role guideline consist of the broad overall roles or the specialisation within it.

Assuming I understood your question correctly, DLP is a specialised role. Wether he has a support or defend duty doesn't come into play.

Yeah, cheers Puni, just to confirm:

CF(s)

W(A) AM(A) IF(A)

DLP(D) DLP(S)

FB(S) BPD(D) BPD(D) FB(A)

Has 2/3 specialist roles, dependent upon the nature of strategy with the Complete forward, as opposed to 3/4 specialist roles due to the split DLP (D)/DLP (S).

Both the DLP players would count as a specialised role. So that's two, plus (but that's more of a grey zone) two BPD's and a CF. So two or five, depending on your interpretation. I did misunderstand you there, I thought you meant if both DLP roles (S or D) were counted as specialised, or just DLP(S) or DLP(D).

Hi. This is one of my first comments after years of just reading. As ever a fantastic thread so in depth and a pleasure to see such philosophies in writing with a logical explanation. If my memory serves me right didn't Matthias sammer play as a libero for Dortmund in the 90's???? I'm playing as Hayes starting off unemployed but I'm struggling to read the games in full match. Is it easier watching games at a higher level than the lower leagues due to the lower standards of players?

I think its easier at lower levels in all honesty because when a player has an high attribute it's more noticeable due to the others been poor. So it's a good way of understanding what the attributes do and why.

Really nice thread! I'm looking for a Libero and they are so hard to find! The game highlights a lot of recommended attributes and I'm not so sure which ones should I give preference to as I'm not that familiar with the role. Which attributes would you say are essential?

Really nice thread! I'm looking for a Libero and they are so hard to find! The game highlights a lot of recommended attributes and I'm not so sure which ones should I give preference to as I'm not that familiar with the role. Which attributes would you say are essential?

Depends what you want him to do. Are you sure its a libero you want and not a sweeper? Will you want him to tackle? Will you want him to attack? How likely is it he'll be able to attack in the system you use and the level you play? All questions you need to ask yourself before looking for one imo. Then decide what attributes they need based on what you need them to do.

I've added some more analysis to post 4

I've added some more analysis to post 4

Goody....

You certainly built a team of world beaters with that squad!!

As discussed, I'm giving this a bash and I'm 15 games into a first season with Spurs, having only just swapped tactics. A few things that I am finding key is width (having to use wider shout) and players with the ability to make a tackle and then a good pass.

My results are very up and down and now that I had a chance to view your squad this morning, I think I can understand why. At first glance, the Spurs squad seems as though it would suit this nicely, however upon closer inspection AND especially having watched many games now, they are lacking in a number of departments.

My first thoughts were that this tactic needed very good players, but after messing around with it a bit, it doesnt really require them, but you have to understand how it works in order to make it work with lesser players.

If I do not use the WIDE shout then I suffer from my players trying to force small passes into the back of eachother, they constantly run into eachother and with a lack of width they love their long shots. However once I use the shout then I can see all the space appear. I get more time on the ball, my players have better options and space to run with the ball if they wish (spurs have a squad full of these players).

I think a team of 'jack of all trades' could actualy do fairly well with this, that said, I look forward to builing a squad as strong as yours.

A question. How do you find the HUB on the wingers? I end up turning it off about 50% of the time as they get to the byline for a perfect cross and then turn back onto their weaker foot to HUB. Also struggling a little with the drilled crosses, though, despite assumptions, Spurs are NOT good at crossing.

Regards

Goody....

You certainly built a team of world beaters with that squad!!

As discussed, I'm giving this a bash and I'm 15 games into a first season with Spurs, having only just swapped tactics. A few things that I am finding key is width (having to use wider shout) and players with the ability to make a tackle and then a good pass.

My results are very up and down and now that I had a chance to view your squad this morning, I think I can understand why. At first glance, the Spurs squad seems as though it would suit this nicely, however upon closer inspection AND especially having watched many games now, they are lacking in a number of departments.

My first thoughts were that this tactic needed very good players, but after messing around with it a bit, it doesnt really require them, but you have to understand how it works in order to make it work with lesser players.

If I do not use the WIDE shout then I suffer from my players trying to force small passes into the back of eachother, they constantly run into eachother and with a lack of width they love their long shots. However once I use the shout then I can see all the space appear. I get more time on the ball, my players have better options and space to run with the ball if they wish (spurs have a squad full of these players).

I think a team of 'jack of all trades' could actualy do fairly well with this, that said, I look forward to builing a squad as strong as yours.

A question. How do you find the HUB on the wingers? I end up turning it off about 50% of the time as they get to the byline for a perfect cross and then turn back onto their weaker foot to HUB. Also struggling a little with the drilled crosses, though, despite assumptions, Spurs are NOT good at crossing.

Regards

Well HUB is essential for me because I don't have anyone in the box for crosses anyway and if I did the chances are he'd be out numbered 2vs1. My play relies on intelligent runs and dragging the defence out of shape or running behind them at the last second.

If your players are getting into positions and no-one is getting on the end of crosses, make sure its not a speed issue and the person crossing isn't to ahead of play due to pace. You might want to lower his mentality to make sure the rest of play can keep up with him.

I honestly thought this would have been more popular. Lots of people keep saying they want to play with a libero or strikerless.

I honestly thought this would have been more popular. Lots of people keep saying they want to play with a libero or strikerless.

I agree, however I think it's the usual problem. You're not telling people how to play, your teaching them.... you should know that does work

It's a shame if it doesnt get picked up a little more because the teamwork of this tactic is fantastic to watch at times and even with just a decent passing team, the amount of one touch passing is great.

Aside from all of that, there is so much to learn with the Libero and strikerless formations........ you can have your cake and eat it here!

Don't give up on us Cleon!

I am running a tactic similar to your first formation that has the back 3 and 2 strikers in the the Blue Square South and having some good results. The only issue I have been having is on the wings. Teams with good fast wingers destroy me, but I have been working on getting players with better pace both in the DW position and the 2 outside CBs and that has helped a lot. If however my opponent is good at hitting long switch-field crosses that will cause me all kinds of headaches. Still trying to figure that out as it seems my opposite winger is always to high up the field.

I've also realized that teams that like to hoof the ball forward cause me issues and I give up way too many corners. Again, I think this comes down to my players than anything else. We seem to be in a good position, just heading a lot of balls behind my own goal.

Hopefully soon I'll get the resources to go after a sweeper (probably not a libero) soon. Still undecided on whether I am going for no strikers.

I agree, however I think it's the usual problem. You're not telling people how to play, your teaching them.... you should know that does work

It's a shame if it doesnt get picked up a little more because the teamwork of this tactic is fantastic to watch at times and even with just a decent passing team, the amount of one touch passing is great.

Aside from all of that, there is so much to learn with the Libero and strikerless formations........ you can have your cake and eat it here!

I agree - to be honest any articles from you guys are great to read. I really don't know how you manage the time to do it. I for one am always looking forward to the next instalment. I've learned a lot but still feel I don't appreciate the full tactics side. Keep up the good work

I agree, however I think it's the usual problem. You're not telling people how to play, your teaching them.... you should know that does work

It's a shame if it doesnt get picked up a little more because the teamwork of this tactic is fantastic to watch at times and even with just a decent passing team, the amount of one touch passing is great.

Aside from all of that, there is so much to learn with the Libero and strikerless formations........ you can have your cake and eat it here!

Hehe.

I'm away for a few day after tonight so I won't get a chance to update. I'll see what the discussion/questions asked are like when I come and then decide whether to carry this on here on just leave it for my blog.

You still having inconsistency issues or have you sorted them now?

What did you do with Bale, is he a DW or AMC? He can play a number of these roles so was interested in seeing what you'd done with him.

Don't give up on us Cleon!

I am running a tactic similar to your first formation that has the back 3 and 2 strikers in the the Blue Square South and having some good results. The only issue I have been having is on the wings. Teams with good fast wingers destroy me, but I have been working on getting players with better pace both in the DW position and the 2 outside CBs and that has helped a lot. If however my opponent is good at hitting long switch-field crosses that will cause me all kinds of headaches. Still trying to figure that out as it seems my opposite winger is always to high up the field.

I've also realized that teams that like to hoof the ball forward cause me issues and I give up way too many corners. Again, I think this comes down to my players than anything else. We seem to be in a good position, just heading a lot of balls behind my own goal.

Hopefully soon I'll get the resources to go after a sweeper (probably not a libero) soon. Still undecided on whether I am going for no strikers.

Is it a flat 3-5-2 you play? Did you read my other thread the Chalboarddiaries one at the top of the forum? I posted what I did in every single game I played, you might find some tips or something you might not have thought about yet.

Have you tried to mark the more creative players out of the game? If you cut the supply off things can become really easy.

Hehe.

I'm away for a few day after tonight so I won't get a chance to update. I'll see what the discussion/questions asked are like when I come and then decide whether to carry this on here on just leave it for my blog.

Then I shall post as many questions as I can think of!!!!!!

You still having inconsistency issues or have you sorted them now?

I think I am mainly on top of them now through a combination of using attack and wide play. though I need to understand what impact the 'play wider' has on the team settings. That said, the number of shots I'm having is massive, but so few are on target but this is down to relying on players like Sandro and Parker taking shots. In time I can see this tactic just dominating the table, but right now it still just a little messy. Though, to be fair, my teams understanding of it is still very low.

What did you do with Bale, is he a DW or AMC? He can play a number of these roles so was interested in seeing what you'd done with him.

Interestingly, he is better at the AMCR role than he is the winger. For some reason I am having issues with the Wingers, the number of unsuccesful crosses is unbelievable, however, even Bale isnt that good at Crossing so I guess it should be expected. Though, I did notice in your stats that your crossing success rate is also very low. I think I noted that yours was a low as 10% in the German game.

My main concern with him is that long term im not sure he is completely suitable to the AMC role as he lacks the passing and creative side of the game that many others could bring, but this is where he is currently best. In reality I think he should be better on the wing. He is more invovled if I have him cutting inside, but as you pointed out earlier in the thread, there is a reason you don't do that yourself.

Is it a flat 3-5-2 you play? Did you read my other thread the Chalboarddiaries one at the top of the forum? I posted what I did in every single game I played, you might find some tips or something you might not have thought about yet.

Have you tried to mark the more creative players out of the game? If you cut the supply off things can become really easy.

I'm playing 3 CB defend - DM DLP (support/defend depending) - 2 DW (1 support, 1 attack) - BWM Support - CM Attack - Treq Attack - Adv. Forward Attack. I just started this formation this season and have been playing really well, I just see a lot of dangerous balls over the top or side to side. Luckily I generally score a lot so it isn't causing me to lose games, just giving me a heart attack!

I have been reading your season 1 at Sheffield United and it has helped much. I have recently developed an irrational fear to OIs. It seems that with my players and their low decision making abilities I will turn up closing down on the opposite wingers and they still arrive to late, or else won't leave them soon enough when the fullbacks and wingers start slowly advancing up the field playing monkey-in-the-middle with my winger.

I think for my team what I really need is more pace on the outside, but I have been having trouble locating players that have some speed, marking and tackling abilities. I only run off scouting reports so I am missing a lot of players because I don't search.

Recently I have been doing as you suggested and trying to learn what I want for stats in a position (how I want them to play) and will retrain for that position. I was always hesitant to retrain before. I may solve a lot of problems once my old left fullback figures out how to play defensive winger!

Recently I have been doing as you suggested and trying to learn what I want for stats in a position (how I want them to play) and will retrain for that position. I was always hesitant to retrain before. I may solve a lot of problems once my old left fullback figures out how to play defensive winger!

Are you playing him there while you retrain him? It tends to be something that people are hesitant to do, but if the player suits the position he can still play fairly well and it will speed up the process no end. I'm getting some pretty good matches out of a striker I'm retraining to RAM despite him only being red or now yellow. It would stop the problems abit quicker.

Are you playing him there while you retrain him? It tends to be something that people are hesitant to do, but if the player suits the position he can still play fairly well and it will speed up the process no end. I'm getting some pretty good matches out of a striker I'm retraining to RAM despite him only being red or now yellow. It would stop the problems abit quicker.

Yes, the only other person I had that could play ML was horrible as a defensive winger so my fullback is playing every game. Hopefully that speeds it along!

Great thread Cleon

I have few questions but not about libero, about atacking part of the formation.

1. You have trequartista and IF. Do You suffer with too few people in penalty area?

2. Isn't playing with 'stick to position' limiting TQ?

3. 2 of 3 of Your mids have 'run from deep' on mixed. Aren't they taking space from TQ?

Great thread Cleon

I have few questions but not about libero, about atacking part of the formation.

1. You have trequartista and IF. Do You suffer with too few people in penalty area?

2. Isn't playing with 'stick to position' limiting TQ?

3. 2 of 3 of Your mids have 'run from deep' on mixed. Aren't they taking space from TQ?

I don't use a treq, I use an AP

But the answer would be no to all those questions