Official Euro 2012 - The Netherlands Tactics & Team Guide

A short history of the Netherlands

If you’re unfamiliar with the history of the Dutch team up until now – you are missing something. The first appearance of the Netherlands on a major tournament was in 1934, when they played in the World Cup. The Netherlands quickly rose to international prominence on the strength of the ’74 and ’78 World Cups, in which the Dutch team played the final and lost – twice. Under the guidance of Johan Cruyff, the single most important figure in Dutch footballing history, the Netherlands lost the ’74 final against West Germany, led by Franz Beckenbauer. In ’78, with Cruyff in absentia, the Dutch once again lost the final, this time to Argentina. Mario Kempes scored twice in the extra time, allowing Argentina to win the final with 3-1. In more recent, and European Cup related, history, the Dutch team won the ’88 European Cup, with a win over Russia in the final and one brilliant goal by San Marco van Basten. The last noteworthy success of the Dutch team was in 2010, where the Netherlands reached the final and lost it – again. This time Spain was the better side.

The road to the European Championship

The Dutch team had no problems qualifying for the 2012 European Championship in a group which consisted of The Netherlands, Sweden, Hungary, Finland, Moldova and San Marino. The Dutch team managed to win all games in their group up to the last game, save for their last game, where the Netherlands recorded a loss against Sweden. The Dutch qualified as first in their group, with 27 points in 10 games, scoring 37 goals and conceding 8. Noteworthy is that the Dutch qualified without receiving a single red card and only 4 yellow cards. Lastly, the Dutch team pulled the trigger against San Marino at home, winning 11-0. Robin van Persie headed this bonanza, scoring a grand total of 4 goals.

Klaas Jan Huntelaar, striker of German team Schalke ’04, was the top Dutch marksman in the campaign for qualification. With 12 goals (and 1 assist), Huntelaar crowned himself topscorer of the EC qualifications. Robin van Persie and Dirk Kuyt, both playing in the Premier League for respectively Arsenal and Liverpool, scored 6 goals.

Group B

The Dutch play their games in group B. Group B can be described as the strongest group in the European Cup. They will face off against Denmark, Germany and Portugal. The Dutch can be considered of three favorites in this group, alongside Germany and Portugal.

The fixtures are:

The Netherlands vs. Denmark – june 9, 19:00 in Charkov

The Netherlands vs. Germany – june 12, 21:45 in Charkov

The Netherlands vs. Portugal – june 17, 21:45 in Charkov

The squad

The format is: name, club, age, caps, goals.

Goalkeepers:

1. Maarten Stekelenburg - AS Roma – 29 – 47 – 0

12. Michel Vorm – Swansea City – 28 – 9 – 0

22. Tim Krul – Newcastle United FC – 24 – 3 – 0

Defenders:

2. Gregory van der Wiel – AFC Ajax – 24 – 32 – 0

3. John Heitinga – Everton FC – 28 – 78 – 7

4. Joris Mathijsen – Málaga CF – 32 – 80 – 3

5. Wilfred Bouma – PSV – 33 – 37 – 2

13. Ron Vlaar – Feyenoord – 27 – 7 – 1

15. Jetro Willems – PSV – 18 – 2 – 0

21. Khalid Boulahrouz – VfB Stuttgart – 30 – 35 – 0

Midfielders:

6. Mark van Bommel – AC Milan – 35 – 77 – 10

8. Nigel de Jong – Manchester City FC – 27 – 60 – 1

10. Wesley Sneijder – Inter – 27 – 84 – 24

14. Stijn Schaars – Sporting CP – 28 – 18 – 0

17. Kevin Strootman – PSV – 22 – 11 – 1

20. Ibrahim Affelay – FC Barcelona – 26 – 38 – 5

23. Rafael van der Vaart – Tottenham Hotsput – 29 – 96 – 18

Attackers:

7. Dirk Kuyt – Liverpool FC – 31 – 88 – 24

9. Klaas Jan Huntelaar – FC Schalke ’04 – 28 – 53 – 31

11. Arjen Robben – Bayern Munich – 28 – 57 – 17

16. Robin van Persie – Arsenal FC – 28 – 65 – 28

18. Luuk de Jong – FC Twente – 21 – 7 – 1

19. Luciano Narsingh – sc Heerenveen – 21 – 2 – 0

The staff

Bert van Marwijk – coach – 50 games – 34 games won – 10 games drawn – 6 games lost

Philip Cocu – assistant coach

Dick Voorn – assistant coach

Ernest Faber – assistant coach

Ruud Hesp – goalkeeper trainer

Egid Kiesouw – physio

Ron Spelbos – head of scouting

Hans Jorritsma - teammanager

Squad analysis

It’s obvious where the strengths, as well as the weaknesses, of this Dutch team lie. The defense is by far the worst area of the squad, whereas the midfield and attacking positions of the squad are filled with skilled players. Van Marwijk likes to field a 4-2-3-1 formation, with wingers cutting inside and two holding midfielders against nations of reputation, with two attacking wingbacks securing width to the team.

As far as goalkeepers go, van Marwijk has three excellent goalies ready to step up. First choice Maarten Stekelenburg, current player for AS Roma but Ajax bred, took over the number 1 jersey after the retirement of Edwin van der Sar. He had large gloves to fill, but Stekelenburg had an excellent tournament as first goalkeeper in 2010, supporting the side with a few breathtaking saves. Behind Stekelenburg, Michel Vorm and Tim Krul battle for the reserve goalkeeper spot. Both keepers play in the English Premier League, for Swansea and Newcastle United, respectively. Michel Vorm quickly became a revelation after being signed from FC Utrecht last summer, and Tim Krul started all 38 games for Newcastle United this season, which meant he secured his spot for the EC 2012 squad.

The Dutch defense is probably the weakest area of the team. Bert van Marwijk likes to field two offensive wing backs and two center backs. The biggest problem in the defense is the left back position, because Dutch regular and PSV player Erik Pieters is injured and unable to play this summer. This left van Marwijk with a huge gap in the squad, as no suitable left backs were available. Urby Emanuelson, of AC Milan fame, was considered a liability as left back, a position he briefly held at Ajax, and current Ajax defensive midfielder Vurnon Anita, who also has a history of playing at left back, was left out in the cold. Bert van Marwijk opted for PSV rookie Jetro Willems, the youngest player in both the Dutch squad as well as the European Championship as a whole, aging Wilfried Bouma, another PSV player who can play as either a center back or left back, or Stijn Schaars, Sporting CP´s center midfielder who has been tested as a left back as well. Jetro Willems, who won just 2 caps, seems to hold the best cards for a starting spot as left back.

The other starting players in the defense are Gregory van der Wiel, right back from Dutch champions Ajax, Johnny Heitinga, Everton´s central defender annex defensive midfielder and Malaga's veteran Joris Mathijsen. Feyenoord player Ron Vlaar will serve as a back-up for the center defenders and Stuttgart's Khalid Boulahrouz, alias ´The Cannibal´, will double as a second right back or right central defender.

Bert van Marwijk has a truly hard job naming his starting midfielders. Van Marwijk likes to play two holding midfielders: Manchester City's Nigel de Jong and former AC Milan and as of next season PSV player Mark van Bommel. Both players have reputations for breaking down an opponents offensive unit, both in figurative as well as literal terms. Another PSV player, Kevin Strootman, will serve as a back-up to these players, and Stijn Schaars can also play as a defensive midfielder.

Naming his starting three attacking midfielder will be another hard job for mr. van Marwijk. Arjen Robben, Rafael van der Vaart, Wesley Sneijder, Ibrahim Affelay, Dirk Kuyt and Luciano Narsingh are the six players competing for three positions. Van Marwijk likes to play inverted wingers, which means Bayern Munich's Arjen Robben will likely feature as a right winger and Barcelona's Ibrahim Affelay, who had a smashing return from his injury by scoring twice against Northern Ireland and playing very well against Slovakia, as a left winger. But van Marwijk did not rule out playing his wingers wide, as he included sc Heerenveen´s Luciano Narsingh in his squad. This pacey right winger is known for his many crosses and assists from out wide to his club's former striker, Bas Dost, top scorer of the Dutch league but not included by Bert van Marwijk. Dirk Kuyt, of Liverpool fame, had a disappointing season with the Reds, on both a personal as well as club level. Kuyt didn't play as often as he would´ve liked, and Liverpool did not exactly perform well either. Inter´s Wesley Sneijder is shaping up to be the Dutch number 10, playing as a central attacking midfielder behind a lone striker. This leaves Tottenham´s versatile Rafael van der Vaart, who can play as a 10, left winger or midfielder or even as one of the two holding midfielders. It seems unlikely van der Vaart will feature in van Marwijk´s favorite squad.

The last crucial decision Bert van Marwijk has to make, is weather to feature Schalke '04's Klaas Jan Huntelaar, or Arsenal's Robin van Persie. Klaas Jan Huntelaar, who was the EC qualification's top scorer, had a steller second season with Schalke, finishing as top scorer in the German Bundesliga. But, as it seems, van Marwijk will pick Robin van Persie to start as a lone striker. Van Persie, who won the top scorer title in the Premier League, played unlucky in the Dutch World Cup campaign of 2010 and will no doubt be looking to wash away the bad taste of not really being able to hit his stride in the Dutch national team. FC Twente's Luuk de Jong, younger brother of not-selected Ajax player Siem de Jong, will serve as a third back-up to these two giants. Dirk Kuyt also has the ability to feature as a striker.

The tactics

As said, the Dutch team will most likely play a 4-2-3-1 formation. Marco van Basten first introduced this formation to the Dutch side in 2008, with devastating success. The Netherlands effectively countered against Italy and France, winning these key games with 3-0 and 4-1, respectively. Since the introduction of Bert van Marwijk as coach of the Dutch team, this formation has been tweaked a bit to counter specific threats.

This tactic means the depart from the Dutch traditional 4-3-3 formation, with one holding midfielder and wide wingers. This formation was made famous as part of the ‘Total Football’ style, played by Ajax and the Dutch team at the end of the ‘60s and beginning of the ‘70s (Ajax), or the ’74 and ’78 Dutch tournaments.

I’ve included a chalkboard of the presumed Dutch starting 11 and their positions, as well as a suggestion for my ideal Dutch team.

Bert van Marwijk will no doubt play in this formation. As already stated, the left back position is somewhat of a problem area, and Willems could ultimately be dropped from this side in favor of either Bouma or Schaars. Van der Vaart could also play in any of the attacking midfielder roles, as well as one of the holding midfield players. Dirk Kuyt could also play as either a right or left winger, but his role is highly situational, as he’s more of a defensive winger, who is known for his defensive desires.

I myself don’t really like this formation. Build up play, the way the Dutch used to play in years long gone, is a lot harder when two defensive midfielders are featured. Instead of triangles, this formation features one square: between Mathijsen, Heitinga, de Jong and van Bommel. Build up play with a square instead of a triangle is ultimately detrimental if you want to play positionally, as passing in straight lines (for instance, imagine Heitinga playing the ball to van Bommel, who in turn has to pass the ball to de Jong) is a lot harder than passing in a triangle (imagine Heitinga passing to van Bommel, who then passes to van der Wiel). When in possession of the ball, central defenders Mathijsen and Heitinga will have a harder time building up plays. This was notable in the past few friendlies, where Mathijsen and Heitinga opted for more direct play, because the defensive block of Mathijsen, Heitinga, de Jong and van Bommel were unable to pass their way to the front four.

Another weakness of this tactic is that it relies heavily on both wing backs to stretch the play. Because the wingers are forced to dribble inside, the pitch is very narrow and can only be stretched by sending a wing back up the pitch, which will leave the side exposed on counter attacks. Van Marwijk relies on both holding players to drop back when a wing back charges forward.

Lastly, another problem could be congestion in the front. In the picture featured below, the red circles are opponents defenders. This picture was drawn after the Dutch defeat at home against Bulgaria. All credits for the pictures go to the original author, AFC_Orange on a Dutch board. Whenever the Dutch side has the ball, all offensive players tend to go as high up the pitch as possible. This leaves very little space to play the ball into, and makes it incredibly easy to defend. You can basically pack all your defenders in a very narrow side and successfully defend against this formation. It’s hard to pass your way out this circle, even Spain wouldn’t be able to do such a thing. You’ll see that once a Dutch player has the ball up front, they have to pass it back to either Nigel (de Jong) or (Mark van) Bommel. Which leaves this side exposed once again, because these two players lack the ability to pass their way out of trouble. You’ll also notice it’s hard to utilize your wing backs in a situation like this. Also notice the lack of depth in this team.

In the formation van Marwijk usually plays, this is what he should do. Picture is found, once again, below. Backs need to be pushed up the pitch as high as possible. This way, the side will maintain depth. The three players in the circle can rotate, and switch positions. Because Huntelaar also plays in a deeper role, there’s more room for the three attacking midfielders to play in. Rotating the players will in turn become easier. The two holding midfielders will have no problems covering all attacking players.

I would personally like to see the return of a 4-3-3 formation, with lots of pressing. Robben and Affelay are forced into 1 vs. 1 situations, van Persie can play the Messi role (false 9), van der Vaart is the creative genius as a left midfielder, Sneijder the dynamic right midfielder and the inclusion of Anita, who is one of the best holding midfielders of the world right now (yes, I said it). Anita is a natural defensive midfielder, who is extremely positionally aware, has great anticipation, and reads the game like no other. Because he’s technically gifted, he also has the ability to build up the play and pass the ball under pressure. If you’re interested in an analysis of Vurnon Anita, I would suggest you visit http://youtu.be/YS_zBrcxSaE or http://youtu.be/2Ec_rs_YbqE immediately (spoken in Dutch, but if you speak the language of football, this should be no problem to follow!).

The Dutch has improved a lot since the 2010.

Cruyff uttered his doubts about Oranje. He believes that Holland will be without a hope with this tactics.

“The problem with two holding midfielders is quite simple, but somehow many coaches don’t see it. The build up happens to slow. Holding midfielders always need that extra touch. Always need to have a look when they have the ball already. That takes time away. The opponent can position themselves to stop the killer pass and the forwards are all marked. Plus, having two holding midfielders means there is one less creative playmaker. It’s a double edged sword.”

Johan Cruyff just can't his mouth shut can he? reast of the article can be read here http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/world-cup-2010/cruyff-opens-oranje-tactics-debate.html

Quality thread btw

The Dutch style has improved a lot since the 2010, it's a lot more pleasing on the eye.

Johan Cruyff just can't his mouth shut can he? reast of the article can be read here http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/world-cup-2010/cruyff-opens-oranje-tactics-debate.html

No, it's not. Van Marwijk only took away the physicality of the two holding midfield players. I still cry myself to sleep when I think about the Dutch build up play. It's simply not there. We're nothing more than a team relying heavily on counter football. It doesn't suit us.

No, it's not. Van Marwijk only took away the physicality of the two holding midfield players. I still cry myself to sleep when I think about the Dutch build up play. It's simply not there. We're nothing more than a team relying heavily on counter football. It doesn't suit us.

Yeah I edited my post just after posting. I didn't mean more pleasing on the eye. But they are a more attractive side that 2 years ago. They can hold onto the ball a lot better than they could 2 years ago and spread the ball about a lot quicker than they did in WC 2010.

It's hard for BVM to abandon what got you to the WC final though, obviously the tactics did suit you as you got to the final. Since then in the last 2 years he has tried to play a more open game but results haven't been all that good. Plus he can't fully abandon something that got you to the final.

Plus your defence is very weak, hence why he is reluctant to use anything other than 2 holding midfielders.

I also think the starting 11 Zonalmarking posted will be the squad that starts the first game;

Yeah I edited my post just after posting. I didn't mean more pleasing on the eye. But they are a more attractive side that 2 years ago. They can hold onto the ball a lot better than they could 2 years ago and spread the ball about a lot quicker than they did in WC 2010.

It's hard for BVM to abandon what got you to the WC final though, obviously the tactics did suit you as you got to the final. Since then in the last 2 years he has tried to play a more open game but results haven't been all that good. Plus he can't fully abandon something that got you to the final.

Plus your defence is very weak, hence why he is reluctant to use anything other than 2 holding midfielders.

I also think the starting 11 Zonalmarking posted will be the squad that starts the first game;

I'm not so sure about that. Since the 2010 final, we have been tested on two occasions: Germany and England. The game against Germany was a disaster, and we didn't do well against a very weak English side. Zonal Marking and my formation have the same 11 players, but ZM made one mistake: Mathijsen is the left central defender where Heitinga is the right.

And I don't really think we're a more attractive side. The Cruyff doctrine also states that if your defense is weak, you must make sure not to test it. van Marwijk is doing the complete opposite, by reïnforcing it with two holding midfielders, who stifle the build up play, which in turn means building up is out of the question. This was glaring in the last few friendlies we played, the back four + two holding midfielders were unable to get the ball quickly to the players that matter. Right now, the Dutch are nothing more but a counter attacking side who will hurt you on the break, but give the Dutch the ball, and you won't have a lot to fear. Field a very narrow formation and your job is done.

I hate that coward van Marwijk.

I'm not so sure about that. Since the 2010 final, we have been tested on two occasions: Germany and England. The game against Germany was a disaster, and we didn't do well against a very weak English side. Zonal Marking and my formation have the same 11 players, but ZM made one mistake: Mathijsen is the left central defender where Heitinga is the right.

Against N.Ireland Heitinga played on the left though from all the reports I've seen. I'm guessing ZM saw the same reports.

And I don't really think we're a more attractive side.

Compared to 2010 you are. You played ugly and dirt in the final, you played anti football. I don't see how you can argue you don't play better now?

I hate that coward van Marwijk.

If he'd won the WC though he'd be loved

Beautiful football doesn't always win, I rather we go for efficient football. Look at Chelsea this season.

Against N.Ireland Heitinga played on the left though from all the reports I've seen. I'm guessing ZM saw the same reports.

Mathijsen was injured, Vlaar took his position as left central defender. Mathijsen is rarely injured and has been playing left central defender for the last six years now.

Compared to 2010 you are. You played ugly and dirt in the final, you played anti football. I don't see how you can argue you don't play better now?

It's only marginally better. Like I said, differentiate between the 'ugly and dirty' football and playing 'good' football. The dirt has been reduced, the football is still crap. Maybe a little less crap, but marginally.

Quality write up The tactical part is brilliant, loving the digrams though. Going to try and incorporate some similar ones in my England thread. I agree with the whole Netherlands are ineffective with the ball and only good on the counter part. But comparing them to Germany who IMO who are the best counter attacking team in the world at the moment they arn't close. I think its going to be a tough tournament for the DUtch, think they will be this years underacheivers.

Beautiful football doesn't always win, I rather we go for efficient football. Look at Chelsea this season.

Completely agree with this, Chelsea played probably the ugliest football seen in the Champs League since Mourinhos Inter. But they won it, so at the end of the day its effective.

Quality write up The tactical part is brilliant, loving the digrams though. Going to try and incorporate some similar ones in my England thread. I agree with the whole Netherlands are ineffective with the ball and only good on the counter part. But comparing them to Germany who IMO who are the best counter attacking team in the world at the moment they arn't close. I think its going to be a tough tournament for the DUtch, think they will be this years underacheivers.

Completely agree with this, Chelsea played probably the ugliest football seen in the Champs League since Mourinhos Inter. But they won it, so at the end of the day its effective.

Spain are ineffective with the ball too, all the play is around their own half and the centre of the pitch same as the Dutch. The only reason they won Euro and WC was because of Villa's goals. Spain don't offer any threat with the ball either, they play good football but its all in areas in which they can hurt you.

"...where the Netherlands recorded a loss against Finland."

We lost to Sweden iirc (3-2).

Great thread though!

Yeah, I'm sure I'd remember if we beat the Dutch in a game of football.

The rumours from various media sources have suggested that Van Persie won't lead as the main striker, but will start out on the left flank with Klaas-Jan Huntelaar through the middle.

The rumours from various media sources have suggested that Van Persie won't lead as the main striker, but will start out on the left flank with Klaas-Jan Huntelaar through the middle.

They lost when they tried this last time, it was a complete disaster. So a bold move if true

They lost when they tried this last time, it was a complete disaster. So a bold move if true

In the formation and with the tactics van Marwijk likes to play, Huntelaar is the 'right' choice, IMO. Huntelaar won't occupy the space of the three attacking midfielders by staying as high up the pitch as possible, whereas van Persie likes to drop deep. Van Persie is the most intelligent and skilled player of the two though, so I would like to see him spearhead an attack in a different formation. Although Sneijder likes to play as a second striker in the current formation, van Persie dropping deep will allow the space Sneijder needs. So I think Huntelaar + van der Vaart as the '10' would be the most ideal formation.

@ Toin: Good looking out, I'll correct my mistake ASAP.

In the formation and with the tactics van Marwijk likes to play, Huntelaar is the 'right' choice, IMO. Huntelaar won't occupy the space of the three attacking midfielders by staying as high up the pitch as possible, whereas van Persie likes to drop deep. Van Persie is the most intelligent and skilled player of the two though, so I would like to see him spearhead an attack in a different formation. Although Sneijder likes to play as a second striker in the current formation, van Persie dropping deep will allow the space Sneijder needs. So I think Huntelaar + van der Vaart as the '10' would be the most ideal formation.

@ Toin: Good looking out, I'll correct my mistake ASAP.

Yeah I agree with you. I'd like to see Huntelaar as the main striker too but I think RVP's form this season means he's undroppable. Which I guess means Hunt will have to be a sub

Yeah I agree with you. I'd like to see Huntelaar as the main striker too but I think RVP's form this season means he's undroppable. Which I guess means Hunt will have to be a sub

There are some reports that Huntelaar might be the starting striker, with van Persie on the left flank. I'm unsure of this, but I thought it was noteworthy.

There are some reports that Huntelaar might be the starting striker, with van Persie on the left flank. I'm unsure of this, but I thought it was noteworthy.

Noteworthy enough to repeat what I said, four posts later. Crikey, it must be big news!

Noteworthy enough to repeat what I said, four posts later. Crikey, it must be big news!

You are entirely correct. Excuse me, I thought this was new information.

van Marwijk told Huntelaar he would start the tournament on the bench, so I doubt it's true tbh. Though i personaly like Huntelaar better. Especially in combination with Snijder.

To talk in FM terms. RVP plays like a DLF, Hunter like a adv F and snijder as a adv playmaker. with snijders ability to spot and deliver a pass playing huntelaar as a striker will get your more goals.

You are entirely correct. Excuse me, I thought this was new information.

Don't be silly. I'm only having a bit of fun!

Cruijff said today (yeah he just can't stfu ) that if he would be the manager he would start with Kuyt as rightback.

Quite interesting I think as Kuyt could play like the likes of Dani Alves and Maicon.

Our defense is weak (especially if Mathijssen is out, which he will be for at least the first match) so just make sure we don't have to defend too much.

Cruijff said today (yeah he just can't stfu ) that if he would be the manager he would start with Kuyt as rightback.

Quite interesting I think as Kuyt could play like the likes of Dani Alves and Maicon.

Our defense is weak (especially if Mathijssen is out, which he will be for at least the first match) so just make sure we don't have to defend too much.

Kuyt couldn't play like Alves or Maicon though due to his lack of pace.

I've also opted for Boerrigter as a left back at Ajax, or Ebecilio a right back. It's not far off to try Kuyt as a right back.

But, it's never gonna happen. Van Marwijk likes Kuyt as a defensive winger.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jun/07/euro-2012-holland-racist-abuse?CMP=twt_gu

Van Bommel says if they get racist chants againt he'll ask the ref to take them off the pitch.

@Raekwon

Your suggested Dutch formation is the system I use with Arsenal, a 4-3-3 but resembles a 4-4-2 Diamond in transition, very stable and good at ball retention and attacking options.

Would love to see Van Marwijk use it but he seems obssessed with 2 holding midfielders.

johan Cruyff's ideal dutch 1st team

http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/world-cup-2010/johan-cruyffs-ideal-starting-eleven.html

That is an attacking midfield line-up

johan Cruyff's ideal dutch 1st team

http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/world-cup-2010/johan-cruyffs-ideal-starting-eleven.html

That is an attacking midfield line-up

It's a ******** blog post. Recycles news from a Dutch newspaper. And the worst thing is - this is a 'what if' post: they presume this would be the formation Cruyff would play with.

Watched the game yesterday and was shocked at how bad the Dutch defense was in the first half. The center-backs dont communicate, the left-back was taunted by the smart movement and passing of the Germans, de Jong and van bommel were drawn out of positions for the goals. I really don't see them getting out of the group tbh.

A decent article on yesterdays game http://blog.squawka.com/2012/06/14/germany-vs-holland-dutch-dealt-dynamic-destruction/

Zonal Marking's one is better: http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/06/14/germany-2-1-holland-tactics/

At least something will change now. I think van Marwijk will play Huntelaar up front, with van Persie on 10 and Sneijder on the left, Robben on the right, with de Jong and van der Vaart behind them as holder / creative midfielders.

We should drop Mathijsen though; he made two big defensive errors against Germany. Even though I'm not a fan of Vlaar, I'd rather see him play.

We have a very good team, but Oranje did not play to their standards...

Hopefully the match versus Portugal can turn things right for us again.

Exit van Marwijk, please. Kinda relieved these bad results will save our WC 2014.

To be fair to van marwijk these games were lost more due to horrible individual performances than any real tactical errors

To be fair to van marwijk these games were lost more due to horrible individual performances than any real tactical errors

Not really. He was a bit negative in his approach using 2 defensive midfielders and not playing Huntelaar whos at International level is better than RVP.

Not really. He was a bit negative in his approach using 2 defensive midfielders and not playing Huntelaar whos at International level is better than RVP.

He wasn't negative tonight. A team that consists of Huntelaar, Van Persie, Snejder, Van Der Vaart and Robben in your starting 11, isn't negative in my eyes. He went with the players people have been crying out for and they still lost.

He wasn't negative tonight. A team that consists of Huntelaar, Van Persie, Snejder, Van Der Vaart and Robben in your starting 11, isn't negative in my eyes. He went with the players people have been crying out for and they still lost.

But the damage was already done. He should have done this the first 2 games, not when they were virtually already out of the competition

One of the problems of the two holding midfielders is the lack of triangles when you have possession, which is the reason for the zillion balls played back to the keeper instead of (quickly) building forward. With one holding midfielders (De Jong) and two attack-minded midfielders (for example, Sneijder and Van Persie?) you can have a quicker buildup and keep more forward pressure (if the entire team wants to commit themselves to that task, something we haven't seen at all this EC).

Not really. He was a bit negative in his approach using 2 defensive midfielders and not playing Huntelaar whos at International level is better than RVP.

That system brought us to the final of the WC and a undefeated qualification. So why should he change that. Also a 4-2-3-1 is not a negative aproach.

I prefer Huntelaar too, but I can't say choosing rvp was a mistake.

As it turns out both played crap.

That system brought us to the final of the WC and a undefeated qualification. So why should he change that. Also a 4-2-3-1 is not a negative aproach.

I prefer Huntelaar too, but I can't say choosing rvp was a mistake.

As it turns out both played crap.

And what happened at the WC when you came up against a good side? Passed off the park and was one of your worse performances in years (The final). You were negative, boring and never ever looked like winning it.

Qualifying for Euro2012 starts and you play good and smash all the weak teams in your group and even change how you play and start Huntelaar and RVP in some games. Euros start and you play good teams again and what happens? Yes you lose......

4-2-3-1 in itself isn't negative, 4-2-3-1 with 2 holding midfielders is negative though as was proved in your games at the Euros.

In FM terms 2 holding midfielders are better than MC's due to the issues with the match engine. However in real world football it means for a technical side like Holland who like to pass the ball around and play quickly when attacking, it takes them longer to get the ball up top and they are always a yard behind due to not been able to pass it at the speed they want to. Players have to take extra touches and make runs that they wouldn't have to is used a MC due to you been very deep in the centre. It actually slows your play down and allows the opposition to get back in position.

Cleon is right. Holland foccused too much on the wings. Game was always on Van Persie's and Robben's feet. Their two holding midfielders weren't much of a help. VDV was the only one to try something and he scored. But, as you could see, most of Holland's best chances came from far. If they pushed a little further and used those two midfielders, I believe, It would have been different. Luckily to us, it wasn't. And another thing, Holland takes too long to take the ball out of defence. And as soon as the ball reached VDV and Sneijder, they were immediately under great amounts of pressure. Don't take me wrong, I like the way holland play. Slow, short passing, but they need to move those two midflieders a little more. They're too static, they need a little more freedom.

That's what I think. It is only my opinion.

@Cleon

when you put it that way I'll concede the negativity But that doesnt mean the tactic is useless, And the spanish certainly didn't dominate us in the WC Final. The tactic has proved it self in the past. So again, why would van Marwijk change that. My point was that we lost because the players didn't show the form they had 2 years ago.

The only thing I blame van Marwijk is caving to the peoples demand and playing van der Vaart instead of van Bommel but refusing to change the system.

To be fair to van marwijk these games were lost more due to horrible individual performances than any real tactical errors

No. The Dutch players were all playing on the top of their game in 2010. Without Robben and Sneijder's great games in 2010, we would've been sent home in the first round as well. But what happens when the form is simply not there? We've seen what happens.

He wasn't negative tonight. A team that consists of Huntelaar, Van Persie, Snejder, Van Der Vaart and Robben in your starting 11, isn't negative in my eyes. He went with the players people have been crying out for and they still lost.

You mistake playing with attackers and playing negative. It's not what your attackers do that sets the tone, it's how your defenders and (holding) midfielders play. There was no pressure whatsoever from our defenders, save for the first 15 minutes against Portugal. If van Marwijk truly had some balls, he would've played a higher defensive line. As well as a different formation of course, but alas, we know van Marwijk wouldn't.

One of the problems of the two holding midfielders is the lack of triangles when you have possession, which is the reason for the zillion balls played back to the keeper instead of (quickly) building forward. With one holding midfielders (De Jong) and two attack-minded midfielders (for example, Sneijder and Van Persie?) you can have a quicker buildup and keep more forward pressure (if the entire team wants to commit themselves to that task, something we haven't seen at all this EC).

This is 100% correct. One holding midfielder is key. But you need one on a central position. When in possession, you saw glaring gaps in midfield where your central holding figure would be vital. The only team who plays this way at the moment is Spain, I think they will go all the way again.

That system brought us to the final of the WC and a undefeated qualification. So why should he change that. Also a 4-2-3-1 is not a negative aproach.

I prefer Huntelaar too, but I can't say choosing rvp was a mistake.

As it turns out both played crap.

1. We were not undefeated in the quals.

2. 4-2-3-1 is a fundamentally negative approach, as it calls for 2 holding midfielders instead of 1, if you play 4-3-3 with one holding midfield player.

3. He should change his formation, because he lost 7 of the last 10 games. He should change his formation, because everyone can see that this formation is not working.

4. Huntelaar barely got a chance. He's a pure finisher, he thrives off other players. He's not to blame for these problems.

5. Van Persie had some horrible performances. He had some great moments (the goal was nice, and you see shimmers of his brilliance when he makes space for himself), but overall, he missed too many good opportunities.

1. yeah, I wasn't sure about the last games. But we were allready qualified before the loss I think.

3. or change his selection procedure. I'm sure a duo of Strootman/Anita could dominate a midfield as cleon described.

4. While this is true, he did the same thing wrong as van persie/robben/affelay he was trying to hard to prove his worth. The others did the same. As a result they played too forced and too self-centered to be of use to the team imo

1. yeah, I wasn't sure about the last games. But we were allready qualified before the loss I think.

3. or change his selection procedure. I'm sure a duo of Strootman/Anita could dominate a midfield as cleon described.

4. While this is true, he did the same thing wrong as van persie/robben/affelay he was trying to hard to prove his worth. The others did the same. As a result they played too forced and too self-centered to be of use to the team imo

3. No, because you will still face the exact same problems when attempting to build your plays up. You lack the singular central defensive midfielder necessary to form the all-important triangles. A square in the center of the pitch will break down any attempt to play good football.

4. IF that is the case, you can blame van Marwijk as well. A head coach should have this under control. If your a tactical non-entity like van Marwijk, you should at least have excellent management skills. Obviously, this is not the case. Internally, the team has once again imploded.

Shame it took 4 years for everybody to see how **** poor van Marwijk is as a coach. I also hope the PSV-clan gets routed, how players like Bouma, Willems and Strootman get selected is beyond me. Strootman was horrible in the second half of the last season, everybody could see that. Willems did what he could, he has undeniable talent but he shouldn't have been selected, let alone a starter. Emanuelson would've been the most logical choice.

This is 100% correct. One holding midfielder is key. But you need one on a central position. When in possession, you saw glaring gaps in midfield where your central holding figure would be vital. The only team who plays this way at the moment is Spain, I think they will go all the way again.

Spain play with two holding midfielders (Busquets and Alonso), not one. The difference is that they play in a very fluid style that allows the full-backs to bomb forward whereas the dutch play in a more rigid style.

Spain play with two holding midfielders (Busquets and Alonso), not one. The difference is that they play in a very fluid style that allows the full-backs to bomb forward whereas the dutch play in a more rigid style.

I'm not sure, but I thought Busquets sits very deep in a central role, whereas Xabi Alonso is more of a central midfielder alongside Xavi? At any rate, I'll look into it next time I see Spain play.