Cleon Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I'm not sure, but I thought Busquets sits very deep in a central role, whereas Xabi Alonso is more of a central midfielder alongside Xavi? At any rate, I'll look into it next time I see Spain play. Yups and Busquets often drops back and acts like a central defender at times. They might play simliat positions but the roles and jobs they do are very different as Alonso is usually quite a bit more advanced Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
karax268 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 3 So teams like germany and Real madrid, Bayern Munchen etc don't play good football? Don´t get me wrong, the 4-3-3 with one holding midfielder is also my prefered formation but to say the 4-2-3-1 can't play good football is just absurd. 4 have to agree with you there. Though I sometimes wonder if the best people-manager in the world can get this bunch of ego's under control Agree on the last point, how emanuelson and anita didn't make the squad is beyond me. Not only are they better options (I think) on the midfield (anita) and LB(urby) their versaitability alone should have done it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 3 So teams like germany and Real madrid, Bayern Munchen etc don't play good football? Don´t get me wrong, the 4-3-3 with one holding midfielder is also my prefered formation but to say the 4-2-3-1 can't play good football is just absurd. He didn't say that though did he, read what he put. Madrid and Bayern play 4-2-3-1 btw With 2 holding players you don't create the little triangular play. Go and analyse any team who have been successful over the last decade and you'll see its all about the little triangles you create that allows you to build quick attacks and go from different phases like defence to attack in 1 clever movement. You seem to be on about something different Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricardomac Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 My knowledge of Dutch football should, probably, be better. But, from what I saw last night, the problem was really the holding midfielders. De Jong and Huntelaar were all alone upfront, with no support from the midfield. I only noticed Huntelaar at the end of the match, didn't even see he was playing. Those two CM never got close to the box, they were sitting back. And, since Holland wanted to win that match so badly, they were leaving too much open space. Portuguese players, except Alves and Pepe, are very fast, we loved the space. And another thing, I'm not an expert, but with the power Portugal has on the wings, wouldn't it been better to play a 4-4-2 instead of the three CD, like Van Marwijk did at the end? After the second goal Portugal to the foot off the accelerator, otherwise I could see another one or two goals going in. A little edit: About the triangles: just like Guardiola said: today's battles are fought in the middle of the park. It is really important to play the middle well, to have that triangle. Portugal did that perfectly yesterday. Veloso satayed back to help the defence, Meireles stayed a little further up to help the build up and clear the first balls and Moutinho was free to thow passes around. And when one of them got out of position, there was always another one to cover. Triangles, I start to understand, May well be the key. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin3 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I'm not sure, but I thought Busquets sits very deep in a central role, whereas Xabi Alonso is more of a central midfielder alongside Xavi? At any rate, I'll look into it next time I see Spain play. Yups and Busquets often drops back and acts like a central defender at times. They might play simliar positions but the roles and jobs they do are very different as Alonso is usually quite a bit more advanced To compare average positions between both sides: Spain vs Italy Alonso (14) actually played slightly deeper than Busquets on average whilst Busquets is slightly more towards the centre than Alonso - To me that shape looks like a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-2-1-3-0. I agree with the point that Busquets drops central and it's actually very interesting that point. Alonso, Busquets and Xavi all occupy the zones that they would for their respective clubs when initiating moves from deep in their own half. That means Busquets drops deep centrally, Xavi drops deep in the right-sided midfield zone and Alonso drops deep in left-hand midfield zone. Whether this is part of their tactical plan or whether they are moving off habits is debatable. When I was watching Xavi closely, his positioning and the amount of space he covered whilst in possession was incredible. At times he dropped very deep centrally to pick up the ball off the centre-backs and at the same time Busquets and Alonso would move wider and further up the pitch, and at other instances he would be make supporting runs ahead of the midfield. This type of movement definitely isn't possible in FM but I haven't seen any other side in real-life play their midfield like Spain does. Spain vs Ireland A more aggressively positioned Spain side but that was mainly down to their total domination of possession. It still resembles a 4-2-3-1 or more accurately a 4-2-1-2-1. Netherlands vs Portugal Netherlands holding-midfielders played in roughly the same position as Spain's. The difference is that they lacked a Xavi to connect the holding-midfielders with the forward line. Snejder or Van Persie play a lot more advanced than Xavi when they occupy the central zone. The other difference is that Netherlands full-backs were more reserved, which is understandable when facing Portugal as they leave Ronaldo high up the pitch and look to counter through the wings. They conceded the second goal from that when they looked to get the full-backs into more attacking positions but paid the price as a result. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 http://chat.squawka.com/chat/portugal-vs-netherlands-european-championship-finals-season-2011-2012-19 This site is great for seeing heatmaps if you register. Gives a better indication Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasp Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 The interesting questions are now 'who is going to replace Van Marwijk' and 'which players will end their international career' (let it be Mathijsen! Please!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
karax268 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 He didn't say that though did he, read what he put.Madrid and Bayern play 4-2-3-1 btw With 2 holding players you don't create the little triangular play. Go and analyse any team who have been successful over the last decade and you'll see its all about the little triangles you create that allows you to build quick attacks and go from different phases like defence to attack in 1 clever movement. You seem to be on about something different Or read what I put. I interpreted what Chef Reakwon said as 'any 4-2-3-1 can't play good football' what I found absurd. And I gave examples of Germany, Bayern and Real as teams that play good football in that system. The point i made to which he reacted was that a midfield partnership like strootman/Anita can work better than de jong/van Bommel because they are more attacking minded. I'm sorry for any misunderstandings Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 IMO 1. Holland lack a Khedira/Shweinsteiger partnership with the fluidity that they both get. Khedira is not phenomenal going forward but he does get forward which gives the defenders another problem to worry about. 2. Germany have Lahm who not only bombs down the wing but is now going through the middle too. 3. The Dutch have Robben, there is a reason he was booed by Bayern fans, he is selfish, does not turn up for every game and IMO has been found out by defenders who know what he is going to do. I mean his only other trick is to switch wings every now and then. Don't know much about Strootman/Anita but doubt they are very close to Germanys pair in CM and I think that is the glaring problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricardomac Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 The interesting questions are now 'who is going to replace Van Marwijk' and 'which players will end their international career' (let it be Mathijsen! Please!) Don't want to disappoint you, but from what I read, Van Marwijk is going to continue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Winger Arjen Robben suggested there were "issues" in the Netherlands squad. He said: "Of course there were some internal issues but we will keep them indoors and, believe me, we tried everything - it's just not worked. "The hunger in the team is there but we failed together. And I mean the technical staff, the players, the whole team. This is the harsh reality of the sporting world. We must all, therefore, look in the mirror." I'd suggest one of the "issues" in the squad was the complete absence of Robben from any of the games he played in. Translated: "Me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasp Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Don't want to disappoint you, but from what I read, Van Marwijk is going to continue. Never trust first reactions. ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricardomac Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I don't trust the media. Never. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasp Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 He quit today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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