Cleon Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 123123213 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 erwerwer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Cleon Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 Midfielders: Xavi, Andres Iniesta, Sergio Busquets, Cesc Fabregas (all Barcelona) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 Midfielders: Xabi Alonso (Real Madrid), David Silva (Manchester City), Santi Cazorla (Villarreal) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 Midfielders: Jesus Navas (Sevilla), Juan Mata (Chelsea); Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 Forwards: Fernando Llorente (Athletic Bilbao), Fernando Torres (Chelsea), Alvaro Negredo (Sevilla), Pedro (Barcelona) It’s interesting to see some of the predefined positions in FM compared to how the players will be played in the Euro’s. Spain has quite a flexible squad with players who can play in many positions. As defending champions and many people’s favourites to retain their European crown, Spain head into Euro 2012 under strength. When I say under strength, I don’t mean it on England-scale proportions but just that key men, Carlos Puyol and David Villa are absent. Add to that the pressure of holding the ‘favourites tag’ and playing against 10 man defences and this particular tournament could be Spain’s greatest triumph yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 As the Euro’s haven’t started yet it’s hard to discuss the tactic’s what will be used. However Spain is expected to play quite similar to how they did in the World Cup. So we can take a look back and see how the world cup 2010 tactic would have looked like. Then when the Euro’s actually do start we can compare and see how the 4-2-3-1 as evolved and how it differs. For this next part I think its fair we remember a member of the forum that tragically had their life taken away from them at such a young age. SFraser loved the big tournaments as it brought a lot of discussions to the forums. I spent the whole of Euro 2008 and the World Cup 2010 discussing tactics with him. Mainly it was all about Brazil and how the game was evolving. We actually did a thread together on here for those of you who can remember that far back. Sadly the thread was deleted by the forum software so doesn’t exist anymore which is a shame. None the less though, SFraser had actually discussed Spain and the tactic they used at the world cup. So I think it would be a fitting tribute to him if I post what he wrote into this thread as it’s become relevant again. As I’ll only be taking the Spain elements from his thread I’ll post a link to the rest of the article as its well worth a read for all of you. This is the link to his thread; http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/265090-Meet-The-System The next few posts that follow will be SFrasers work. He may not be here anymore but he will never be forgotten as his work still lives on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 As I explained before due to certain limitations in FM in terms of tactics I have chosen to opt for a defensive shape that attacks rather than vice versa. However while some 4-2-3-1 systems can be convoluted in attack and regularly change shape in real life, the two most outstanding 4-2-3-1 type systems in the last World Cup were pretty simple yet rather profound in what they did. Those two were Spain and Germany. While there is some debate over the exact system Germany played, that's kind of the point. The Spanish and German systems were both very similar yet completely different, and both showed us some spectactular new ways of understanding how to attack with the 4-2-3-1. The Spanish system was based on patient, probing, "tiki-taka" football that ground opponents into submission and seized on opponents switching off for a second. The German system was based on lightening fast surgical incisions in vast numbers into the opponents weakest areas. Neither system employed much in the way of radical shape changes between defence and attack. Both systems exploited a certain property inherent in the 4-2-3-1 system, that property is asymmetry. The previous thinking behind most 4-2-3-1 systems was you defend amazingly but when you attack it's pretty much up to your awesome AMC to carve out chances for your lone striker. Your two wingers can help with the counter-attack, help get the ball upfield quickly and maybe cross for your striker or AMC/Second Striker or maybe play the ball to your AMC and let him work his magic. The logic then follows that two AMC's would be better than one, that the Barcelona 4-1-2-3 formation which pushes two players forward behind the striker would be much more offensively potent because it has an additional AMC type player. That's not entirely untrue, it is sound logic. The problem is that as more and more teams employ 4-2-3-1 systems to defend against you, you are increasingly going to be trying to attack through the middle of teams set up to defend through the middle, and you will be ignoring the space they actually give you. In the World Cup we saw Spain and Germany line up with systems that absolutely tore apart the space teams were giving them, by turning the attacking weaknesses of the 4-2-3-1 into strengths. Spain Here is a rough example of the average Spanish line up, with some artistic effect in the back line. The Spanish didn't actually use wingers in the World Cup. They used Iniesta who you could argue is a winger but more accurately is one half of the Xavi - Iniesta footballing carousel of infinate doom. They also used David Villa who is a lethal goalscorer. Basically what is going on here is that the defenders and strikers are down one side of the pitch, through the middle and down the other side of the pitch are the playmakers and supporting cast. Watch what happens when the team starts attacking: A humongous quantity of attacking threat is built down the right flank, the opponents defence shuffles along to try and cope with the numbers, the defenders have to be at peak concentration and organisation to prevent Xavi and Iniesta working an opening between them, and sooner or later somebody takes their eye off of David Villa... And guess what, Germany played their completely different style exactly the same. Germany While the Spanish system was premised on dominating possession and probing open teams, the German system was based on counter-attacks. For this reason Ozil tended to play more advanced so he could off Klose more as the ball was cleared quickly. There was always that threat of Klose holding the ball up and Ozil receiving it on the counter. That wasn't really the main threat though, infact although Ozil had an excellent World Cup he was more of a distractionary figure in the German system. The critical point in the German system was to do precisely what the Spanish system did tactically speaking, but do it quickly. When Germany won the ball it would be played wide right quickly. Lahm, Khedira and Mueller would quickly work the ball between themselves down the right flank and attack at pace. Klose would pull wide and/or deep causing the Centrebacks problems, and Oezil would punch straight through the channel between Centreback and Fullback. The plan here was to swiftly dissect the opponents left back position with counter attacking wingplay and channel bursting runs from the AMC, leaving the opponents Centrebacks in a mess. If the inside Centreback was on Klose no one could mark Oezil, if the outside Centreback was on Klose and the inside Centreback on Oezil then Podolski could make blind side runs on his fullback at the back post. Most of the time the technical, tactical spare man at the back post didn't matter because the oppositions defence was usually in complete disarray long before then. Germany scored a huge amount of easy goals from unmarked positions simply by overloading one flank at pace. They cut many teams to ribbons doing this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 SFraser still played FM10 so he achieved the above on that version of the game. Once the Euro’s start we’ll compare the above to how they play now and see if the system as changed at all or any of the roles they use. Plus who’s to say they’ll still play that way once the tournament kicks off I hope this thread generates a lot of discussion. I’ll try and keep it updated as much as possible once things get under way Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinsFan86 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Really looking forward to the discussion here Cleon. Watched Spain play South Korea yesterday, and despite it just being a friendly it was quite interesting to watch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooner83 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 looking forward to this and very good of you to give a shout out to the legend that is SFraser Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaycar Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Looking forward to it all kicking off Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucatonix Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I think it will be interesting to see whether Spain use the same formation as in the World Cup. My main line of thought is who will play in Villa's role? Spain don't really have a similar sort of player in the 23-man squad. I still expect to see the same tiki-taka, possession based football but perhaps Silva will start at AML which would bring something different to the team. Ofcourse it is very possible that Torres or Pedro or even Cazorla could play in Villa's role but I don't it would be natural to any of them (perhaps Pedro more than anyone). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyrefuze Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Nice read. I would say SFraser is still alive, he is alive in any Tactical discussion threads, not just this forum but any where you can find one. People still reason their thoughts/tactics against his theories. It's a great tribute. @Cleon: Did you intentionally wrote Busquets as Biscuits above? reminded me of 'someone must be really hungry' comment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobBRFC Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Did you have to do it so well Cleon Thats give us all something to live up to now haha. Brilliant write up as always, looking forward to starting my England one now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted June 1, 2012 Author Share Posted June 1, 2012 Nice read. I would say SFraser is still alive, he is alive in any Tactical discussion threads, not just this forum but any where you can find one. People still reason their thoughts/tactics against his theories. It's a great tribute. @Cleon: Did you intentionally wrote Busquets as Biscuits above? reminded me of 'someone must be really hungry' comment. Sfraser wrote it as biscuits not me Did you have to do it so well Cleon Thats give us all something to live up to now haha. Brilliant write up as always, looking forward to starting my England one now Cheers. I look forward to reading it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romanista1994 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 This is brilliant, really setting the bar very high. However, you might want to cut out the part about Germany from the tenth post as it's wholly about Germany and not Spain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted June 1, 2012 Author Share Posted June 1, 2012 This is brilliant, really setting the bar very high. However, you might want to cut out the part about Germany from the tenth post as it's wholly about Germany and not Spain. Don't worry thought I'll steer it back towards Spain in a few days when I post up something new Anyone wanna take a punt at the starting line up for the first game? I think it will be interesting to see whether Spain use the same formation as in the World Cup. My main line of thought is who will play in Villa's role? Spain don't really have a similar sort of player in the 23-man squad. I still expect to see the same tiki-taka, possession based football but perhaps Silva will start at AML which would bring something different to the team. Ofcourse it is very possible that Torres or Pedro or even Cazorla could play in Villa's role but I don't it would be natural to any of them (perhaps Pedro more than anyone). I think Iniesta might do the Villa role. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted June 1, 2012 Author Share Posted June 1, 2012 I think Llorente will start ahead of Torres upfront for the first game. Anyone else think same? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobBRFC Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I think Llorente will start ahead of Torres upfront for the first game. Anyone else think same? Im not to sure actually, Torres has looked a lot sharper in recent weeks. I think their friendlies will massively shape that, I missed their friendly at the weekend who started up front then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted June 1, 2012 Author Share Posted June 1, 2012 Im not to sure actually, Torres has looked a lot sharper in recent weeks. I think their friendlies will massively shape that, I missed their friendly at the weekend who started up front then? Torres started but it wasn't the main side that played really. Was a mix of reserves and first teamers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin3 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 David Villa is obviously a huge blow given that he was their only major attacking threat in terms of goal scoring. I don't think much will change from the World Cup - the likes of Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets and Alonso seem sure starters. Iniesta on the left and Silva on the right seem the more likely duo but that line-up didn't exactly go to plan for them in the opening game of the World Cup against Switzerland. They were too narrow and predictable in attack that Silva didn't even feature for the rest of the tournament. They went with the same line-up against England which also ended up in a 1-0 loss so it's something that Del Bosque might ponder. The other potential options they have for the right sided role are Pedro, Navas, Mata and Cazorla. When Llorente did play, Navas was usually the one that Del Bosque brung on to provide crosses. Spain will dominate possession for sure but with no David Villa, they may need to sacrifice a little in order to make up for the lack of a penetrating, attacking threat. With Arbeloa and Abla starting as the full-backs, Spain will most likely use the left-hand side to overload the play - the mirror image of the diagram in the OP. Silva will probably be the one that will have to re-create the 'Villa'role. My prediction for the starting line-up: ------------Casillas------------ Arbeloa--Pique--Ramos--Alba -------Busquets--Alonso----- ---Silva-----Xavi---Iniesta-- ------------Torres------------ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted June 1, 2012 Author Share Posted June 1, 2012 David Villa is obviously a huge blow given that he was their only major attacking threat in terms of goal scoring. I don't think much will change from the World Cup - the likes of Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets and Alonso seem sure starters. Iniesta on the left and Silva on the right seem the more likely duo but that line-up didn't exactly go to plan for them in the opening game of the World Cup against Switzerland. They were too narrow and predictable in attack that Silva didn't even feature for the rest of the tournament. They went with the same line-up against England which also ended up in a 1-0 loss so it's something that Del Bosque might ponder. The other potential options they have for the right sided role are Pedro, Navas, Mata and Cazorla. When Llorente did play, Navas was usually the one that Del Bosque brung on to provide crosses. Spain will dominate possession for sure but with no David Villa, they may need to sacrifice a little in order to make up for the lack of a penetrating, attacking threat. With Arbeloa and Abla starting as the full-backs, Spain will most likely use the left-hand side to overload the play - the mirror image of the diagram in the OP. Silva will probably be the one that will have to re-create the 'Villa'role. My prediction for the starting line-up: ------------Casillas------------ Arbeloa--Pique--Ramos--Alba -------Busquets--Alonso----- ---Silva-----Xavi---Iniesta-- ------------Torres------------ I think there is every chance that Mata will get the nod over Silva. I think in the recent friendly Cazorla played on the left too. No matter who starts though some big names are going to miss out. I've seen lots of people saying Pedro must start as well. He's been poor all season but that's due to how he was been played by Barca. He does give Spain something different when he plays though. Tough call trying to pick your best 11 out of those 23 people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin3 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I think there is every chance that Mata will get the nod over Silva. I think in the recent friendly Cazorla played on the left too. No matter who starts though some big names are going to miss out.I've seen lots of people saying Pedro must start as well. He's been poor all season but that's due to how he was been played by Barca. He does give Spain something different when he plays though. Tough call trying to pick your best 11 out of those 23 people. Yeah, I really struggled to name the striker and the remaining midfielder. The good thing for Spain is that given the versatility of virtually every member of their squad, they have a number of variants of the 4-2-3-1 that they can turn to. Also, Del Bosque isn't afraid to try a different approach like for example, after the Switzerland game he dropped Silva to put Villa on the left, so putting down a guaranteed first 11 is difficult to predict. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewis999 Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 I know this is off-topic but is anyone doing a Germany one? Thought i'd write and ask in here as there's a few lines about Germany so my post isn't too far off topic but i'm looking to play on the counter 4-2-3-1 wise like they did at the World Cup and possibly at the Euro's and wanted a bit of an insight in FM terms more really about how you could go about doing that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted June 2, 2012 Author Share Posted June 2, 2012 I know this is off-topic but is anyone doing a Germany one? Thought i'd write and ask in here as there's a few lines about Germany so my post isn't too far off topic but i'm looking to play on the counter 4-2-3-1 wise like they did at the World Cup and possibly at the Euro's and wanted a bit of an insight in FM terms more really about how you could go about doing that. Totally wrong thread mate for what you are wanting. Keep an eye in here http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/307699-European-Championship-Threads Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo98 Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 It will be interesting to see how Spain adapt without Villa, but i think as someone hinted above, they may react by doing a "mirror" of the tactic they used so successfully at the world cup. Aside from missing Villa there is one other key difference which i think drives this. Sergio Ramos was key to the tactic, as you showed above Cleon. Ramos was a rampaging RB in that team, but in the past season at Real he has been mostly converted to a centre back (and rubbish penalty taker........). It looks likely that Arbeloa will start at RB and whilst he is less eratic than Ramos, he is not perhaps as attacking. Added to this is the change at left back and the emergence of Jordi Alba. Alba is a converted winger and a very attacking full back. Put these things together and you can mirror the 2010 tactic - Alba bombing forward on the left, Iniesta possibly moving from right to left to perform the same role as before. The "wide striker" role is wide open - Mata could opperate there but since comign to Chelsea he seems to prefer to be more central. The one thing i havent seen mentioned, which would be from "left field", would be to start Llorente in the middle and play Torres in the wide striker role. He might not like it at Chelsea but the role for spain would be very different and far more attacking - Just look at how many goals Villa scored from there...... Llorente also gives a good option if the "overload" one side tactic isnt fooling teams - If the wide striker isnt getting the space then you can still throw crosses in for Llorente. Looking forward to seeing how it works out for the spanish - The one other fact which wuold be in interesting would be to include Javi Martinez in Central defence - Giving them 2 real ball playing centre backs and one who is prepared to step out from the back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted June 3, 2012 Author Share Posted June 3, 2012 It will be interesting to see how Spain adapt without Villa, but i think as someone hinted above, they may react by doing a "mirror" of the tactic they used so successfully at the world cup. Aside from missing Villa there is one other key difference which i think drives this. Sergio Ramos was key to the tactic, as you showed above Cleon. Ramos was a rampaging RB in that team, but in the past season at Real he has been mostly converted to a centre back (and rubbish penalty taker........). It looks likely that Arbeloa will start at RB and whilst he is less eratic than Ramos, he is not perhaps as attacking. Added to this is the change at left back and the emergence of Jordi Alba. Alba is a converted winger and a very attacking full back. Put these things together and you can mirror the 2010 tactic - Alba bombing forward on the left, Iniesta possibly moving from right to left to perform the same role as before. The "wide striker" role is wide open - Mata could opperate there but since comign to Chelsea he seems to prefer to be more central. The one thing i havent seen mentioned, which would be from "left field", would be to start Llorente in the middle and play Torres in the wide striker role. He might not like it at Chelsea but the role for spain would be very different and far more attacking - Just look at how many goals Villa scored from there...... Llorente also gives a good option if the "overload" one side tactic isnt fooling teams - If the wide striker isnt getting the space then you can still throw crosses in for Llorente. Looking forward to seeing how it works out for the spanish - The one other fact which wuold be in interesting would be to include Javi Martinez in Central defence - Giving them 2 real ball playing centre backs and one who is prepared to step out from the back. I was going to mention Torres doing the Villa role but I read somewhere that the manager wasn't keen on that. He thought Torres is better as a central forward instead, understandably really. But it does go to show that they do have plenty of options, it's just a case of how experimental he wants to be. I'm guessing at this stage not very, although it could be a surprise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
b101 Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 My prediction for the starting line-up: ------------Casillas------------ Arbeloa--Pique--Ramos--Alba -------Busquets--Alonso----- ---Silva-----Xavi---Iniesta-- ------------Torres------------ Pretty much agree with this but I'd have an outside bet on Pedro starting on the left with Silva dropping to the bench given that he plays a very similar role to the Villa/Podolski one mentioned above. Still a very impressive squad even with those two big injuries. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin3 Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I'm curious as to how people would go about setting up the Spanish midfield in FM? Two DMC's and 3 AMC's or two DMC's plus AML/AMC/AMR? Maybe even Xavi plays as a MC? I ask because I have a Spanish save going atm and I think I've tried every single combination possible !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted June 4, 2012 Author Share Posted June 4, 2012 I'm curious as to how people would go about setting up the Spanish midfield in FM? Two DMC's and 3 AMC's or two DMC's plus AML/AMC/AMR? Maybe even Xavi plays as a MC?I ask because I have a Spanish save going atm and I think I've tried every single combination possible !! I'd either go 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 It just depends how you want to define those roles in the match engine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyrefuze Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 If I would have a chance of managing Spain in FM, I would go for similar 4-5-1 formation. Busquets as Anchorman/DM, Xavi (AP) and Alonso (BBM) above him. And then Iniesta coming in from the wing as IF, I'll start Pedro ahead of Silva on the right wing as winger. Torres as Poacher (Targetman in team instructions). Silva for me is more of a central player and can come in later to replace Xavi. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted June 9, 2012 Author Share Posted June 9, 2012 I'm sorry bit I wont be keeping this thread upto date so if someone else wants to take over it feel free Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage94 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 The more I look at the Spanish team and the way that they have been playing the more I think that without Villa they are really going to lack the clinical finish that the way they play needs. My eyes are going to be glued to the Spain - Ireland game in particular as Ireland are very adept at reducing space in between the lines with the deep midfielders and with a strong emphasis on retaining shape which Spain will find a problem with. England's friendly win over Spain earlier in the season was a good example of how to stop Spain. I'd be quite surprised if Spain do win the tournament Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin3 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 The more I look at the Spanish team and the way that they have been playing the more I think that without Villa they are really going to lack the clinical finish that the way they play needs. My eyes are going to be glued to the Spain - Ireland game in particular as Ireland are very adept at reducing space in between the lines with the deep midfielders and with a strong emphasis on retaining shape which Spain will find a problem with. England's friendly win over Spain earlier in the season was a good example of how to stop Spain. I'd be quite surprised if Spain do win the tournament I thought England's defensive shape was brilliant that day. They played in a 4-3-3 -if I remember correctly- with Phil Jones, Scott Parker and James Milner in the centre. With those three, there was plenty of work-rate and industry and Spain couldn't really play between their lines. The back four of England was also excellent. Ireland plays a 4-4-2 but they may change it - like England did - to a 4-5-1 to counter-act Spain’s domination of possession through the middle third of the pitch. I think Spain would better off if they sacrificed one of Alonso or Busquets for a more attacking-minded player such as Fabregas in these types of games, and go with a more pro-active approach. There really is no need for both of them when the opposition is looking surrender possession to them and then hit them exclusively on the break. I can understand why Alonso and Busquets play against the better sides – to give them more protection- but for a team like Ireland they won’t create many chances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted June 9, 2012 Author Share Posted June 9, 2012 Spain's issue will be goals. I think that their main striker as only scored 1 goal in 8 years at a tournamant and that was Torres. Villa as scored 90% of their goals in this time and Iniesta chipped in with 4 and Puyol 2 I think. Without the threat of Villa I can't see where the goals will come from if he sticks with Torres. Spain simply cannot replace Villa no matter who they play on the left so they should rectify this by changing shape and using something to utilise Llorente as I believe he can score the goals needed to win the tournament. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtuck01 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Torres actually scored two at Euro 2008, not one, aswell as three at the 2009 Confederations Cup. So he has scored five goals in tournament football in the last eight years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted June 9, 2012 Author Share Posted June 9, 2012 Torres actually scored two at Euro 2008, not one, aswell as three at the 2009 Confederations Cup. So he has scored five goals in tournament football in the last eight years. Confeds doesn't count as not open to all clubs. Did he get 2 at Euro2008? Could only find his winner in final I stand corrected Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtuck01 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Haha I was been a bit fussy by including the Confederations Cup to be honest. In Euro 2008 he also scored against the Swede's in a 2-1 win. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted June 9, 2012 Author Share Posted June 9, 2012 Haha I was been a bit fussy by including the Confederations Cup to be honest. In Euro 2008 he also scored against the Swede's in a 2-1 win. Knew you was Ahh I skipped that game completly for some reason :o Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I heard an interesting interview on Talk Sports with a british reporter who specialised in Spanish football and he was suggesting that what he was seeing at practice is that Negredo might start and that Lllorente had fallen to number 3 choice. In fact he was quite confident of that and took a long punt on Negredo ending the competition as top scorer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin3 Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Did not see that coming - Six central-midfield players on the same pitch for Spain is ridiculous!:lol: This could be the new tactical trend in football or it could just end-up being a complete mess! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted June 10, 2012 Author Share Posted June 10, 2012 Did not see that coming - Six central-midfield players on the same pitch for Spain is ridiculous!:lol: This could be the new tactical trend in football or it could just end-up being a complete mess! I think they'll have to change it before half time. I can't see this working against Italy who are normally strong defensive to begin with. Italy will just allow them the ball and will be happy to take a 0-0 imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted June 10, 2012 Author Share Posted June 10, 2012 To play without a striker you still need people to run vertically between the lines. Spain over playing it in the final third and doing 1 pass to many time after time. Spain look vulnerable at the back especially the fullbacks. Because Spain press 3v3 the fullbacks have to come really high up the pitch due to Italy using wingbacks. So if Italy can utilise the wings more i.e Di Natale then he'd expose them as it would be 2v2 down the wings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 This might shock some people(Arsenal fans especially) but Fabregas is blaming the pitch for todays result. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jascko Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Spain didnt start to look dangers before Torres and Navas came inn. Before that they didnt have no width, and nobody threatening backspace. Torres is way from his best form, but no matter what form he is, he still offers another dimension to Spains attacking system then Silva/Fabregas/Iniesta. I hope Vicente del Bosque drops one of the mentioned players and plays Torres as striker. By threatening backspace Torres can at least open up the space for others. Combination Silva/Fabregas/Iniesta is to predictable, and can be very rigid against Irland and Croatia - who will probably play deep and defensive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seule Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 This might shock some people(Arsenal fans especially) but Fabregas is blaming the pitch for todays result. It's not just fabregas either, I actually thought while I was watching the game that the spanish players would complain about the pitch after the game, not in a bad way, just thought a few of their players looked annoyed at some of the bounces they got. I thought Italy did a good job of keeping Spain in relatively "safe" areas of the pitch for a lot of the game. I do tend to agree that Spain looked a lot more dangerous when Navas started running at the defense, or even the couple of times that Iniesta decided to go for a run. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobBRFC Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Saw the lineups for this game and not much else, was gutted to miss it really as it seemed a very interesting tacticla game. From what ive seen Spain played a 4-3-3 almost but with 3mc 3AMC, is that about right? Might try and set a strikerless formation up on FM, just for laughs. Anyone think it would work or tried it before? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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