jimbobBRFC Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 This is the second thread ive done about FM12 so any constructive criticism would be greatly appreciated. Im not creating this thread for people to say my ideas are wrong or for it to be filled with trolling etc. mainly to start a discussion on one of the most misunderstood parts of FM. Enjoy Changelist 07/03/2012: The thread begins, first section uploaded Uploaded first section regarding the 4-2-3-1, also some info at the very bottom of this thread just showing the way I want this thread to go 08/03/2012: Uploaded the analysis of combating players, what do we think people 14/03/2012: Added the final bit of the 4-2-3-1 guide about combatting specfic threats. 15/03/2012: Added Zdlr's analysis of the Flat 4-5-1 How Do I Beat Them, A Guide to Match Preperation Introduction Failure to prepare is preparing to fail, as clichéd as it may be , the age old saying rings true in the realm of football management. Jumping into every game without any sort of preparation can give you success (mainly if your name is Diablo) but for the majority of players the way you prepare for a game can be imperative to the success of your team. A correct strategy to identifying and combatting strengths and weaknesses can be the difference between success and failure, and the line between them both is rather thin. As in my previous thread/guide I am not going to be posting any revolutionary ideas in the actual guide, I will just be writing up how I approach things and how it has worked well/gone wrong for me. I’m hoping the revelations will come in the discussion of the thread and contrasting ideas being explained and played off against each other. Anyway lets get started. Opposition reports, using them well I’m not going to go to in-depth with this part of the guide as I think most people would like to know how to combat specific threats, but it is a worthwhile addition Preparing for a game begins the week before the game is due to commence. A simple look at the weekends fixtures can show the type of form your next opposition is in, let’s say a newly promoted Blackpool side have just beat Liverpool 2-1 at Anfield. This is quite obvious to see Blackpool are going to be high on confidence and will be really up for the next game. That maybe a little exaggerated but you can see what I’m getting at. A quick look at a team’s previous results can give an easy way to see what kind of form they are in. Of course in FM form means nothing as, as we all have experienced, overconfidence soon becomes an issue, but that is a different thread entirely. In most cases a United team who have won 14 on the bounce will be a much tougher game than a Wigan side who haven’t scored a single goal in five, that in my opinion is relatively simple. For people who have read my other thread regarding scouting you will know I always always use an Opposition scout. Most people on these forums probably do the same, and if not get one now!! A few days before every game you receive an email,. From this email you can navigate onto the team report, which when clicked gives you a screen that looks something like this: As you can see from that wonderfully well placed circle there are a number of options within this report that can help you plan how you will approach the next game. Let’s start with the one we can see. The squad depth tab shows the star quality of a player in comparison to the rest of the team. So you can see that Norwich are strongest at DR and in the centre of midfield. The weakest link in their squad is the DL position. The most important thing to remember about this screen is to remember that the ratings each player/position is given is relative to that squad only, so Norwich’s four star DR may only be a 2 star DR for United. That is a point I think a lot of people get confused with. The second and third tabs on the opposition report is the team comparison and the last match analysis tab. Personally I think these two screens are pretty irrelevant. Yes they do show who has the taller team, you can compare your two teams by position and see a detailed breakdown of how they fared in their last match etc but in the grand scheme of things I think it is pretty useless. taking into account form, team talks, press conferences etc how a team played in their last match can be pretty irrelevant. Some people will probably disagree strongly with me here but hey this is just my two cents. The fourth and fifth tab are, in my opinion, the two most important. Tactic Analysis and Goal Analysis. These two screens look like this: And this: Now these two screens are the single most important thing that can be used when planning how you are going to tackle your next match. Let’s start with the Tactic Analysis. This screen gives a breakdown of the tactics your opponent has used, and the tactics your opponent has faced. It may show Stoke have used 4-4-2 for 960 minutes of play scoring X amount of goals and conceding Y. This can help you pre-empt what your formation is going to set up like, to help you think about the best way forward (more on this later). Looking at the tactics faced section shows a very similar screen, the only change being that instead of the tactics they have used, it’s the tactics they have had used against them. Also on the right hand side of both of these screens shows how the tactic selected has fared against similar teams, stronger teams and weaker teams. Lets just sat your United for example playing a standard 4-2-3-1 formation, coming up against Stoke who a pretty standard 4-4-2. A quick glance at this screen may tell you they have scored 10 and conceded 12 against a stronger team when they have been using 4-4-2, and when playing against 4-2-3-1 they have conceded 9 and scored only 2. So chances are you’ve got a pretty good chance going into the game simply from looking at the stats. How to directly combat things will come later on. The next part to this is the Goals Analysis screen. This is very similar to the tactic analysis except that it shows goals, and where they have come from. The first section is goal times, and using this could be key. If most of the goals are scored in the last 15 minutes it suggests they always finish a game strongly, and if they concede most of their goals before half time it suggests they have quite low concentration. This screen can be used to plan out a strategy for the match, use it well. Looking at the goals scored section it lists, placed shots, headers, volleys etc etc, and shows how many goals have come from each. A real life example in Norwich would show a lot of goals coming from headers as Grant Holt does score the majority of his goals with his head. So a team that scores a lot with placed shots would suggest they pass it around and wait for an opening, I would expect to see Barcelona’s places shot percentage to be a considerable amount higher than heading for example. The next little section is the Goal Assists section. This shows a graphic of a pitch split into sections showing where each assist has come from. This can be quite misleading as it may show 9 goals coming from the right wing which would suggest a lot of crosses. But it may just be they have an AP playing AMR who threads through balls from that area of the pitch. So it can be quite misleading, although if 90% of the goals come from the centre of midfield your best bet is to try and stop them playing through the middle, Common sense really. So that about sums up the reports, now let’s move onto the more exciting stuff. I will refer back to this section when talking about the exploitation of weaknesses, to show how the report actually helps understand how the opposition playst. Exploiting them little holes that the opposition thought you knew nothing about can be one of the more enjoyable parts of the game, and through the power of scouting, you now know these holes like they are your own. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobBRFC Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 Exploting weaknesses, formation So you’ve seen the way you think the opposition are going to line up, as your scout provided that all so lovely report that gives you all the little holes in the opposition. That will tell you were to direct your attacks, and what to look out for when they are coming at you. So a good place to start would be looking at the formation they are likely to play, and finding how to best set your team up so that you give yourself the best possible chance of taking all three points. So Im just going to give a few examples of how I look at a lineup/formation and decide what to do with my team. Now to get started I’d just like to say that I don’t believe in constantly changing my formation I like to keep things very simple and balanced, and then change things up by changing player/team instructions. So first off Ill start with one of my favourite formations to play against the attacking 4-2-3-1, something nice and easy to break people in. So really, any absolute novice at Football Manager should really be able to see the complete weakness in this formation. If the two MC were dropped back into the DM formation it would be a completely different story. This is probably a very easy one to start with and maybe a little obvious but its a good way to show my system. So the first thing I would look at would be where abouts I have got players that they don’t. So I usually line up with a 4-1-2-2-1 or a 4-1-2-1-2, this tells me instantly that I am going to have men up in the attacking midfield strata. Straight away I know I can use this to my advantage. Lets say for arguments sake I decide to use a 4-1-2-2-1 as I usually would. That gives me the two wingers, with what should really be no men anywhere near them. I would instantly set up with the exploit the flanks shout to try and force the ball to my wide men, where there are a lack of players. I would also have one of my midfielders to Run from Deep Often, to exploit the lack of space in the DM strata, and my Striker would be a DLF to try and come deep and pull the Centre Backs out of position. I have exploited the space that is created simply from our formation match ups. I can almost guarantee that the majority of their conceded goals will have come from the wings (don’t hold me to that though). I can also see that I could probably afford to commit my Full Backs forward a bit more as they have no one to track them, this may even force the outer AMC to come into places that they don’t want to be. So as long as my DM and two DC are very defensive and don’t really go forward at all I am pretty confident that I can afford to exploit the formation in the ways explained above. The second thing that can be looked at is when the game is about to kick off look at how the team is set up. ( all credit to Cleon for this) When the game first kicks off if you look at the defensive line you can see how deep/high they are playing. If they are playing this formation with a very deep line, there will be acres and acres of space in the attacking midfield strata, giviing the AMR/L masses and masses of space to play with. Following the tips ive said it shoud be a very Barca vs Leverkusen esque scoreling. Exploiting Weaknesses, Players So for this little part of the guide I will be looking at how I go about pinpointing the specific weaknesses in an opponents lineup and how I would go about exploint this weakness. For the simplicity of things and again to keep it simple I will use the Norwich team report from earlier in the guide. I know Norwich would never play a 4-2-3-1 but it will give a simple and easy introduction too how I do things. So here is that team report again: So instantly looking at this you can see what the weak points of the team are. As the 4-2-3-1 is a formation Norwich wouldn’t usually play they will be weak in quite a few areas. Looking across the three AMC, the highest rated one is three stars, which is very average, the other two coming in at 1 ½ star. The best AMC is also the best ST, so I can safely presume going forward they are not going to be a massive threat. It is a threat that still needs to be considered and combated, but a very small threat at that. Now for us to exploit things chances are we will be exploiting their defensive line. Looking across the defensive line they are strongest at DR and weakest at DL. They are quite strong down the middle, but as I play a 4-5-1 the majority of my attacks will be coming down the wings. I also know that my AMR/L will have a lot of time and space. I want to try and play my way down the right hand side to try and expose Norwich’s DL. A theory I have just recently found on these forums is to do with forcing the opposition to play down one side of the pitch ( I cannot remember who brought this up but full credit to whoever did ) The theory is that showing people onto a certain foot and closing down in the correct places can force the opposition onto a certain side of the pitch, So closing down all of Norwich’s right side, and not closing down the left side will give options on that side. This will force them to play through the worst player in their team. So the ball is now going through their arguably weakest player, strike one to me. I will also try to exploit that wing with the ball. This can be done simply through shouts. I would play wider to try and stretch the play. Forcing the central players into a wider position where they are not comfortable being. I would then also use the exploit the flanks shout, to try and play the ball out to the flanks, and more specifically my right winger who can get at the left back. A good way to make sure the ball always hit the right winger would be to set him as the playmaker, but this is something I don’t like doing. I believe setting him as the playmaker would make players try to find him with the ball, and to try and force the ball out to one player would seriously hamper things. So there we are the next bit of the guide, I hope that shows how I would combat a threat. Dangermen, stopping them playing So we’ve exploited the weaknesses of the team, but now we need too try and stop them from playing the way they want too. There are two ways too approach this. The meticulous detail way, i.e. go through every single player in the opposition team and set your team up to try and stop every player from playing to their strengths. So the DM Destroyer with 2 passing ability quite a bit of time on the ball as he can’t pick a pass, giving a striker with 2 for finishing/composure a little more space and mark other people a little more tightly, or in the case of Lionel Messi hack the little Argentine off the park. The second, and more time efficient way, to approach the oppositions strengths is to target the key men. So for a team like Lille I would try and keep Hazard quiet, as he is undoubtedly their strongest player. For big teams like Barca/Madrid/United they evidently have a lot of star players, so my usual tactic is target a couple of players to try and keep quiet and then pray. A lot of who and how I decide to counter happens mid match as then you can see who is the most influential/best player on the pitch, but beforehand there is some research you can do. For this example I am going to take the teenage wonderkid that is Christian Eriksen, still playing for Ajax in the AMC of a 4-2-3-1. This is his strongest position and he is a massive talent. Here is a screenshot of the man himself: (Screenshot too follow Im writing this on my break at work) His obvious strengths are his eye for a pass, movement and he is relatively quick. Knowing his weaknesses are also just as important, he is pretty weak physically and his composure/bravery/ aggression are very low. He is not a very physical player (I’m sure he’d have a field day against Stoke). So my game plan for Eriksen would be to try and close him down, not give him lots of time and get stuck in. His dribbling and creativity are pretty high but I’m willing to run the risk of him just getting past him. So to implement this plan I will play my absolute destroyer in the DM position. Somebody like Kara, Van Bommel, or any of the Stoke team. To rough him up and not give him any time to show any of his true class. On his opposition instructions I would close him down always and set his tackling to hard. On my DM I would set him to man mark Eriksen, stick to him like glue. IRL this would be similar to how Madrid have tried to counter Messi in recent times. Setting Pepe (the destroyer) up in front of the back four to just track Messi and give him a tough time. Also in the same game the vital flaw was shown in this system, the attacked being way too skilful and intelligent for the DM to properly track without leaving gaps and hindering his teams shape. Unfortunately stamping is not yet built into the ME so we won’t be seeing any of that. So that is how I would counter the playmaking AMC, you will find that the majority of players in the game do have some form of weakness, more often than not it is the better technically the worse physically. That is a very general assumption and there will be exceptions to the rule i.e Pique (outstanding defender pretty immense technically). A brief look at the opposition’s key man and his weaknesses could make the difference between a win and a draw. The instructions you give before a game may also need to be tweaked during the game, but as this is a thread for match preparation that is for a different thread. Hope you’ve enjoyed the read, if there are any othe players/formations you would like me to analyse don’t hesitate to let me know. Cheers Jimbob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobBRFC Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 The Flat 4-5-1 Credit to Zdlr Firstly, if I'm neither a team likely to challenge for the title, nor a team likely to fight against relegation, I usually end up playing as a reactionary tactical magpie: playing a game specifically to counter the opposition and stealing ideas from others as I go along. The new scout reports allow you to see how the opposition are likely to line-up and with which players in certain roles, so you can reliably tailor your tactic to counter their strengths and highlight their weaknesses. The flat 451 aims to flood the midfield, maintain possession for the most part but also to aim direct passes up to the lone striker who will wait for reinforcements or win a foul, easing pressure on his defence. It also allows for swift counter-attacks which commit a four of the five midfielders forward to try to overwhelm a defence that has been caught by surprise. This is how Burnley and Wolves have just set up against me in the League Cup and Premiership, respectively. Both of which were played at home for my Newcastle team. I looked at the midfields in both instances and they consisted of -two hard-working widemidfielders who will get up and down the line. -a central defensively-minded midfielder who will drop back between defence and midfielder to offer protection to the back four. -a creative midfielder who can spot and execute a pass. -an attacking midfielder who will look to get forward and support the lone striker. However, while their forward-runs settings would all differ, their nominal positionals are all within the central midfield strata. This is what I need to exploit. By playing a 4231 deep, I am effectively matching them man-for-man (4 defenders, 5 midfielders and a lone striker), however, the strata used bypasses theirs entirely. The 2 DMCs are multipurprose- in possession: link up with the midfielders in the AM strata, in attack: move forward cautiously to support but remain deep enough to attract the attention of two of the midfield 5, in defence: screen the back four from any possible counter-attacks. The AMCs should- hold their positions in the hole so that the DMCs can find them with direct passes (otherwise we would be a broken team) and run at the defence, causing panic and indecision. In both games, this resulted in a home win. The Burnley game saw us 4v0 up after 20 minutes, so effective was it, but a subsequent switch to 442 by Burnley saw them claw two back for 4v2 at fulltime. The Wolves game was more difficult, with the first goal coming finally around the 70th minute mark, with my AMC (Haris Vuckic) spotting a hole in defence to dribble through and score. Burnley Here's an example of our attacking shape against Burnley. Lovenkrands has cut inside with the ball from the right wing. Vuckic has moved into the space that Lovenkrands has vacated. Note that Cabaye (4) is being tightly marked by one of their midfielders, meaning he is not able to contribute to countering the real danger. Similarly, their number 20 is unsure whether to drop back towards his goal or engage with Tiote (8). In fact, he drops away from Tiote, changes his mind and then goes back to engage with him. There is an element of Lovenkrands simply doing something individually brilliant about the goal that he goes on to score (a 50 yard diagonal dribble followed by an exquisite finish) but he is definitely aided by our shape. Note that their 11 and 13 are both tracking Gutierrez (18) and their 7 is doing nothing at all defensively. This is how we lined up in defence against Burnley. We are man-to-man on all of their players bar the centrebacks, with a spare man in defence. Wolves Wolves were much better organized than Burnley, as you might expect. But our breakthrough finally came after an hour. They've got themselves in a slight muddle, doubling-up on our creative midfielder and leaving our AMC in the hole unattended. After receving the ball, Vuckic finally spots the obvious direct run into the box and their DCr (14) is forced to come out and across to make a tackle, which he misses. http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/8...ngvswolves.jpg Here, we've narrowed the space to ridiculous levels with 6 players surrounding only two of their players. There's no obvious man in space for Wolves that wouldn't immediately be closed down. While Burnley and Wolves obviously played different variants of the 451, the basic premise was the same even despite player differences. I've been labelled a tinkerman in the game due to my tendency to switch formations and instructions so readily, but it seems to be working for the most part. See from post #41 for more discussion Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobBRFC Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 one more reserved Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobBRFC Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 and maybe a last one for good luck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Nice work Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I've reserved you 2 more just incase, then I can delete them and add any content if you need it. If not I can delete them at a later date Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special10 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Wating to read more Nice job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobBRFC Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 Wating to read more Nice job. Thanks Ill get more done tonight I've reserved you 2 more just incase, then I can delete them and add any content if you need it. If not I can delete them at a later date Thanks Cleon, never sure how much space to keep, may end up being quite a lengthy one this. just a bit stuck at the moment not having access to my laptop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pndc Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Very nice job so far, and the content is well written. This is an area I'm trying to get much better at currently, so the timing is perfect! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuSS Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 great OP, glad somebody is taking the time to write up how the game should really be played. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuSS Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 whoops mispost Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattydc Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 FuSS, given that the real-life Baggies (yes, I'm a supporter, so sue me!) tend to have more shots than bigger teams (cf. the recent game against Chelsea), I'd say that's pretty impressive. Also looking forward to the additional posts on this thread - cheers Jimbo! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobBRFC Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 First actual analysis added in, a pretty simplistic one to start with but hey, it shows the process well. whoops mispost What you tryna say FuSS you misposted about it being a good thread, cheers mate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobBRFC Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 What are people thinking of how the thread has started? im really just bumping this but hey need a reason to do it I have no shame Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matj Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 What are people thinking of how the thread has started?im really just bumping this but hey need a reason to do it I have no shame Really enjoying it so far and looking forward to the rest Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobBRFC Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Really enjoying it so far and looking forward to the rest Cheers I will finish the 4-2-3-1 tonight Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZdlR Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Please do, this is interesting. I've struggled to get into FM12, although I'm always late to start a lasting career anyway. I have started probably a dozen saves since release and none of them have lasted more than two weeks. Not sure what it is, but perhaps it's time that I started using the tactics creator. I didn't even know this new scout report system existed until this thread, so shallow has my FM12 experience been. What I'm hoping you do is take this to its logical conclusion and show why you put certain players in their position in the formation, and link that to the opposition player that they will face. It seems that you can make a more educated guess at what formation the opposition will play, and perhaps even the players that will play in certain positions, but it would be nice to read an explanation of who you pick to counter a threat or exploit a weakness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dz47 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Perhaps this should go in the 'stupid questions' thread, but I just wanted to check....these detailed scout reports highlighted in the OP are only available in FM12 and not in FM11 right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobBRFC Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Please do, this is interesting.I've struggled to get into FM12, although I'm always late to start a lasting career anyway. I have started probably a dozen saves since release and none of them have lasted more than two weeks. Not sure what it is, but perhaps it's time that I started using the tactics creator. I didn't even know this new scout report system existed until this thread, so shallow has my FM12 experience been. What I'm hoping you do is take this to its logical conclusion and show why you put certain players in their position in the formation, and link that to the opposition player that they will face. It seems that you can make a more educated guess at what formation the opposition will play, and perhaps even the players that will play in certain positions, but it would be nice to read an explanation of who you pick to counter a threat or exploit a weakness. There you go next bit has been continued with, enjoy the read. May be a little slow upadting over the next few days, Mass Effect 3 came a day early so ya know, duty calls. Perhaps this should go in the 'stupid questions' thread, but I just wanted to check....these detailed scout reports highlighted in the OP are only available in FM12 and not in FM11 right? I skipped Fm11 was absorbed in 10 so I wouldnt know sorry, as far as I know no they are not the same detail no Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinGregory84 Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Makes tactics look too simple.. Class thread :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobBRFC Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 Makes tactics look too simple.. Class thread :-) They are simple if you take the time to look at them properly Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Nicely done! WIll look into it. Hope you will continue your post soon! Thank you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZdlR Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I assigned a scout to the next opposition a few games back. Since getting these reports my results have been as follows: Newcastle 1 - 1 Man Utd Newcastle 2 - 1 Arsenal Liverpool 1 - 3 Newcastle Newcastle 2 - 0 Norwich Stoke 2 - 1 Newcastle So, some excellent results in there. The Stoke game was quite frustrating, however, and I lost to 10-men with the winner coming on the counter such was my desire to collect all three points. Still, for each game, I've been able to see what formation they will likely start with, where their goals usually come from, and what players they are likely to pick in each position. Against Norwich, this was particularly useful because they played 4-2-2-2 so I knew I could drop a ball-winner (Tiote) for an extra passer (Guthrie). It took about 70 minutes to break them down, but this is the sort of game I would lose quite often. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Good thread and well written OP. I do most of this already (and a little more). I thought I'd add a little to this. The above screenshot shows the strength and depth of the squad listed by position. In the case of this screenshot though, I would still not know who plays where exactly. In this case I'd be unsure if Naughton plays at Left Back or Right Back. He's quite obviously stronger (and the strongest in the team) at RB, but he's also the strongest LB in the team. Norwich could choose for 4* RB and 2½* LB... or go for 3* RB and 3* LB. That's where the "Position Strength" tab comes in. Click on that, click on the position (in this case, LB or RB) and you'll see who has been playing there this season and how many games they've had in that position. Hover your cursor over the "i" and the attribute page for the player pops up. Now you can exploit much more specific weaknesses. I do it often in the case of fullbacks. Put a physically strong Inside Forward/Winger against a physically weak Fullback. Or Fast vs Slow. Or how about lowering your IF/Winger RFD or Duty to Support so that he can show off his dribbling skills against the fullback with low tackling? That's just one position, and there are so many other options, it's mind-blowing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobBRFC Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 Good thread and well written OP. I do most of this already (and a little more). I thought I'd add a little to this. The above screenshot shows the strength and depth of the squad listed by position. In the case of this screenshot though, I would still not know who plays where exactly. In this case I'd be unsure if Naughton plays at Left Back or Right Back. He's quite obviously stronger (and the strongest in the team) at RB, but he's also the strongest LB in the team. Norwich could choose for 4* RB and 2½* LB... or go for 3* RB and 3* LB.That's where the "Position Strength" tab comes in. Click on that, click on the position (in this case, LB or RB) and you'll see who has been playing there this season and how many games they've had in that position. Hover your cursor over the "i" and the attribute page for the player pops up. Now you can exploit much more specific weaknesses. I do it often in the case of fullbacks. Put a physically strong Inside Forward/Winger against a physically weak Fullback. Or Fast vs Slow. Or how about lowering your IF/Winger RFD or Duty to Support so that he can show off his dribbling skills against the fullback with low tackling? That's just one position, and there are so many other options, it's mind-blowing! Im going to be totally honest here and say I have never noticed the position strength tab so yeah you've taught me something new there Its an excellent way to appraoch things that, and ill build on this when I complete the 4-2-3-1 later tonight. You dont mind me pulling things from what youve written do you? The idea of lowering them to a support role so they pick the ball up deeper and run at the marker is an interesting one. So youd use that against a FB with low tackling/ Maybe against a really attacking full back who isnt the best defender? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Im going to be totally honest here and say I have never noticed the position strength tab so yeah you've taught me something new there Its an excellent way to appraoch things that, and ill build on this when I complete the 4-2-3-1 later tonight. You dont mind me pulling things from what youve written do you? The idea of lowering them to a support role so they pick the ball up deeper and run at the marker is an interesting one. So youd use that against a FB with low tackling/ Maybe against a really attacking full back who isnt the best defender? Go for it. Use some of what I've written, expand on it.. your choice. Yeah, That's the idea. Either put him on support duty or drop his RFD to still keep the attacking mentality. You wouldn't want your guy on top of the fullback when he gets the ball. Find a way to give him some room to run at the FB. Those are two ways and of course there are a few more. Edit: There are so many options, it's sometimes frightening. We've only been talking about Inside Forward / Wingers vs Fullbacks. You have to take all (or most anyway) the attributes of the two "battlers" into account and sometimes the opposition tactics too. If your Winger in the AML/R slot on Attack duty is going to sit on top of a big lump of a FB and the opposition is playing with a deep defensive line, what good would that do? His advantage in pace over the big guy is no good then. In that case, Id drop him deeper too (whether it's through Support Duty or changing RFD or dropping him to ML/R) to use his dribbling, flair and creativity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobBRFC Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 Go for it. Use some of what I've written, expand on it.. your choice.Yeah, That's the idea. Either put him on support duty or drop his RFD to still keep the attacking mentality. You wouldn't want your guy on top of the fullback when he gets the ball. Find a way to give him some room to run at the FB. Those are two ways and of course there are a few more. Edit: There are so many options, it's sometimes frightening. We've only been talking about Inside Forward / Wingers vs Fullbacks. You have to take all (or most anyway) the attributes of the two "battlers" into account and sometimes the opposition tactics too. If your Winger in the AML/R slot on Attack duty is going to sit on top of a big lump of a FB and the opposition is playing with a deep defensive line, what good would that do? His advantage in pace over the big guy is no good then. In that case, Id drop him deeper too (whether it's through Support Duty or changing RFD or dropping him to ML/R) to use his dribbling, flair and creativity. Yeah I see what your getting at there, surely though if you did that for every position on the pitch it'd take you a few years to play a season. I presume you just do it for key positons, so if the formation was based around the Wingers you would concentrate on the Full backs etc etc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Yeah I see what your getting at there, surely though if you did that for every position on the pitch it'd take you a few years to play a season. I presume you just do it for key positons, so if the formation was based around the Wingers you would concentrate on the Full backs etc etc Well, I don't speed through seasons at all. I use the scout report quite a bit before each match. The real action starts when the match starts. I watch full detail matches and make plenty of changes once I see how attacking the team is, if the fullbacks are pushing up, d-line depth etc. The scout report basically gives me clues who to pick and roughly how I'll play. As soon as the match starts, I'll make the finer adjustments. Edit: Yes, if you don't want to spend too much time dwelling on all that, look at important positions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Something else that's quite helpful when using the team reports: This is the latest report I've received. I've circled their strongest defenders. Not bad. Have a look at the DR position though in the next shot: He no longer shows up! Guess where I will be exploiting them later? The "position strength" tab eliminates players that are suspended, injured or will for any other reason be ineligible for the match. Yes, I know you can view it on the squad screen, but I dont use opposition squad screens and while viewing team report, you can easily miss the fact that some players won't even play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5uare2 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 The "position strength" tab eliminates players that are suspended, injured or will for any other reason be ineligible for the match. This is one of the reasons I prefer the "position strength" tab to the "strength overview". The other reason? You can see the appearances and average rating for each player in that position. Appearances helps you decide who their "first-choice" player for the position is - it's not always the person with the highest CA stars - and the average rating is great to target positions that have been underperforming. After I check the tactic analysis to see their formation, I head straight to position strength and go through the positions in the formation to identify threats and weaknesses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathxxx Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Something else that's quite helpful when using the team reports: This is the latest report I've received. I've circled their strongest defenders. Not bad. Have a look at the DR position though in the next shot: He no longer shows up! Guess where I will be exploiting them later? The "position strength" tab eliminates players that are suspended, injured or will for any other reason be ineligible for the match. Yes, I know you can view it on the squad screen, but I dont use opposition squad screens and while viewing team report, you can easily miss the fact that some players won't even play. These in tandem with a quick check of a player attributes (looking for low determination, composure, etc...), can be very helpful towards choosing if you'll use a little "psychological warfare" prior to the match in the press, to highlight a "weakest link". In situations such as you mention, where opposing teams are missing key players through injury or suspension, you can really put pressure on their backup players taking their first choice players places. So for example, their best right-back is out, their young backup right-back isn't the most determined or composed player. You highlight him as weakest link and more often than not, his morale will plummet. By then setting opposition instructions to specifically target him, you can add additional pressure with instructions such as closing down and hard tackling. With the right combinations and a little prior preparation, a player can perform so poorly, your team can exploit mistakes he makes, or the opposition manager is forced to make changes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dribbler Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Heath I do this now thanks to your thread...in fact I sometimes target 6-8 players..there doesn't seem any reason not to unless your players are especially sporting thanks for the thread anyway! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 These in tandem with a quick check of a player attributes (looking for low determination, composure, etc...), can be very helpful towards choosing if you'll use a little "psychological warfare" prior to the match in the press, to highlight a "weakest link". In situations such as you mention, where opposing teams are missing key players through injury or suspension, you can really put pressure on their backup players taking their first choice players places. So for example, their best right-back is out, their young backup right-back isn't the most determined or composed player. You highlight him as weakest link and more often than not, his morale will plummet. By then setting opposition instructions to specifically target him, you can add additional pressure with instructions such as closing down and hard tackling. With the right combinations and a little prior preparation, a player can perform so poorly, your team can exploit mistakes he makes, or the opposition manager is forced to make changes. Exactly! Funny you mention this. I did exactly that for that particular game last night. Said to the press that we're looking to target the DR and the GK. The motivation widget said that they're both playing without confidence. I also used OI's to force the entire team to play on their right. I was able to tackle and intercept regularly by forcing them to use the weaker and more nervous righthand side players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobBRFC Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 These in tandem with a quick check of a player attributes (looking for low determination, composure, etc...), can be very helpful towards choosing if you'll use a little "psychological warfare" prior to the match in the press, to highlight a "weakest link". In situations such as you mention, where opposing teams are missing key players through injury or suspension, you can really put pressure on their backup players taking their first choice players places. So for example, their best right-back is out, their young backup right-back isn't the most determined or composed player. You highlight him as weakest link and more often than not, his morale will plummet. By then setting opposition instructions to specifically target him, you can add additional pressure with instructions such as closing down and hard tackling. With the right combinations and a little prior preparation, a player can perform so poorly, your team can exploit mistakes he makes, or the opposition manager is forced to make changes. Getting all psycological on them, love it Heath. I find this "psycological" approach works a lot better the lower down the leagues you get. Ive tried it in the EPL before and the majority of players had a storming game when ever I personally targeted them, but lower down the leagues I completetly agree, it does work a treat. Although I have never done it via the posititon strength tab because I didnt know it was there. Sorry about the lack of updates to the main part of this thread, been really busy recently. WIll try and get it done this aft Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathxxx Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Yes, the "psycological" approach works better in the lower leagues mostly, but can also work well in the top divisions, if used sensibly and with caution. Mainly you can target the younger and more inexperienced opposing players, when the opportunity presents itself. Obviously in the lower leagues where players may have lower mental attributes to exploit as a "weak link", you can often take the opposite approach with higher league players, by attempting to make them over-confident and highlighting them as a "danger man". As we'll all have experienced at some point in our games, complacency can sometimes cripple a team performance. If you can successfully make an opposing player thing he just has to turn up for the game to perform well, you can often enjoy the same poor outcome of his performance, as you would from the opposite effect of trying to knock a mentally weak players confidence. Can take a little trial, error and practice to start successfully criticising or hyping up an opposing player, as each player is an individual. Once you find certain players who are susceptible to pressure of one form or another, it's actually quite useful to make a note about it, for future use and as a rough guide should you face players with similar character traits and mental attributes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobBRFC Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 Yes, the "psycological" approach works better in the lower leagues mostly, but can also work well in the top divisions, if used sensibly and with caution. Mainly you can target the younger and more inexperienced opposing players, when the opportunity presents itself. Obviously in the lower leagues where players may have lower mental attributes to exploit as a "weak link", you can often take the opposite approach with higher league players, by attempting to make them over-confident and highlighting them as a "danger man".As we'll all have experienced at some point in our games, complacency can sometimes cripple a team performance. If you can successfully make an opposing player thing he just has to turn up for the game to perform well, you can often enjoy the same poor outcome of his performance, as you would from the opposite effect of trying to knock a mentally weak players confidence. Can take a little trial, error and practice to start successfully criticising or hyping up an opposing player, as each player is an individual. Once you find certain players who are susceptible to pressure of one form or another, it's actually quite useful to make a note about it, for future use and as a rough guide should you face players with similar character traits and mental attributes. I managed it quite well when I was playing in the lower leagues, just never mastered it in the top leagues. I may start looking into it more, one of my faviourite aspectis of the game is planning on how to best play against an opposition. Although I made a mistake in my Crewe save last night, getting beat 6-2 from bottom of the league Burton (im 3rd by the way) but hey, im no SAF. I think it was more complacency than anything. I do like this idea though and am going to build on it in my current game Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennie Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Some excellent stuff keep it coming. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobBRFC Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 Final little bit uploaded there hope you enjoy. Just like to put in here how I want this thread to go and would like to know what people think about this idea. There are a lot of threads springing up around the place saying how do i beat this, how do people play against Barca how to beat Bayern etc etc so I think this thread should head down the direction of combatting specific situations, for everyone to add in how they combat specific threats. Sort of like the looking for thread in the GP&TP forum. People ask about a certain formation/player and someone whether it be me or anyone else in the community will answer. The better ones I will post in the reserved spots ive got up at the top. So what do people think of that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crewe_york Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 So what do people think of that? Brilliant post Jimbob, incredibly helpful guide to understand where the weaknesses are in the opponents and then how to exploit them to the max, something I think quite a few don't quite fully comprehend. I would also have one of my midfielders to Run from Deep Often, to exploit the lack of space in the DM strata, and my Striker would be a DLF to try and come deep and pull the Centre Backs out of position. I have exploited the space that is created simply from our formation match ups. I can almost guarantee that the majority of their conceded goals will have come from the wings (don’t hold me to that though). The second thing that can be looked at is when the game is about to kick off look at how the team is set up. ( all credit to Cleon for this) When the game first kicks off if you look at the defensive line you can see how deep/high they are playing. If they are playing this formation with a very deep line, there will be acres and acres of space in the attacking midfield strata, giviing the AMR/L masses and masses of space to play with. Following the tips ive said it shoud be a very Barca vs Leverkusen esque scoreling. Do you look at any frailties in their CB's (ie. pace, positioning, etc..) to determine how to play you Strikers before the match? I always get stuck whether to play a DLF or Poacher just looking at attributes alone and never really figure out what's best to start with. This generally leads me to having to change strikers half way through the match to try and cause them problems. The one thing I have noticed is that if your opponents playing quite a high line from kick off then it seems more effective to play a DLF sitting just infront of the D-Line to provide through balls for other faster players. However if theyre sitting deep, I'm now swerving towards playing a poacher-esque player to sit just on the shoulder of the CB's and try and run onto a through ball from the wingers or the more advanced CM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZdlR Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Just thought I'd have a go at positing a counter to a particularly nasty AI tactic: the flat 451. Firstly, if I'm neither a team likely to challenge for the title, nor a team likely to fight against relegation, I usually end up playing as a reactionary tactical magpie: playing a game specifically to counter the opposition and stealing ideas from others as I go along. The new scout reports allow you to see how the opposition are likely to line-up and with which players in certain roles, so you can reliably tailor your tactic to counter their strengths and highlight their weaknesses. The flat 451 aims to flood the midfield, maintain possession for the most part but also to aim direct passes up to the lone striker who will wait for reinforcements or win a foul, easing pressure on his defence. It also allows for swift counter-attacks which commit a four of the five midfielders forward to try to overwhelm a defence that has been caught by surprise. This is how Burnley and Wolves have just set up against me in the League Cup and Premiership, respectively. Both of which were played at home for my Newcastle team. I looked at the midfields in both instances and they consisted of -two hard-working widemidfielders who will get up and down the line. -a central defensively-minded midfielder who will drop back between defence and midfielder to offer protection to the back four. -a creative midfielder who can spot and execute a pass. -an attacking midfielder who will look to get forward and support the lone striker. However, while their forward-runs settings would all differ, their nominal positionals are all within the central midfield strata. This is what I need to exploit. By playing a 4231 deep, I am effectively matching them man-for-man (4 defenders, 5 midfielders and a lone striker), however, the strata used bypasses theirs entirely. The 2 DMCs are multipurprose- in possession: link up with the midfielders in the AM strata, in attack: move forward cautiously to support but remain deep enough to attract the attention of two of the midfield 5, in defence: screen the back four from any possible counter-attacks. The AMCs should- hold their positions in the hole so that the DMCs can find them with direct passes (otherwise we would be a broken team) and run at the defence, causing panic and indecision. In both games, this resulted in a home win. The Burnley game saw us 4v0 up after 20 minutes, so effective was it, but a subsequent switch to 442 by Burnley saw them claw two back for 4v2 at fulltime. The Wolves game was more difficult, with the first goal coming finally around the 70th minute mark, with my AMC (Haris Vuckic) spotting a hole in defence to dribble through and score. Burnley Here's an example of our attacking shape against Burnley. Lovenkrands has cut inside with the ball from the right wing. Vuckic has moved into the space that Lovenkrands has vacated. Note that Cabaye (4) is being tightly marked by one of their midfielders, meaning he is not able to contribute to countering the real danger. Similarly, their number 20 is unsure whether to drop back towards his goal or engage with Tiote (8). In fact, he drops away from Tiote, changes his mind and then goes back to engage with him. There is an element of Lovenkrands simply doing something individually brilliant about the goal that he goes on to score (a 50 yard diagonal dribble followed by an exquisite finish) but he is definitely aided by our shape. Note that their 11 and 13 are both tracking Gutierrez (18) and their 7 is doing nothing at all defensively. This is how we lined up in defence against Burnley. We are man-to-man on all of their players bar the centrebacks, with a spare man in defence. Wolves Wolves were much better organized than Burnley, as you might expect. But our breakthrough finally came after an hour. They've got themselves in a slight muddle, doubling-up on our creative midfielder and leaving our AMC in the hole unattended. After receving the ball, Vuckic finally spots the obvious direct run into the box and their DCr (14) is forced to come out and across to make a tackle, which he misses. Here, we've narrowed the space to ridiculous levels with 6 players surrounding only two of their players. There's no obvious man in space for Wolves that wouldn't immediately be closed down. While Burnley and Wolves obviously played different variants of the 451, the basic premise was the same even despite player differences. I've been labelled a tinkerman in the game due to my tendency to switch formations and instructions so readily, but it seems to be working for the most part. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James9 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Just thought I'd have a go at positing a counter to a particularly nasty AI tactic: the flat 451.Firstly, if I'm neither a team likely to challenge for the title, nor a team likely to fight against relegation, I usually end up playing as a reactionary tactical magpie: playing a game specifically to counter the opposition and stealing ideas from others as I go along. The new scout reports allow you to see how the opposition are likely to line-up and with which players in certain roles, so you can reliably tailor your tactic to counter their strengths and highlight their weaknesses. The flat 451 aims to flood the midfield, maintain possession for the most part but also to aim direct passes up to the lone striker who will wait for reinforcements or win a foul, easing pressure on his defence. It also allows for swift counter-attacks which commit a four of the five midfielders forward to try to overwhelm a defence that has been caught by surprise. This is how Burnley and Wolves have just set up against me in the League Cup and Premiership, respectively. Both of which were played at home for my Newcastle team. I looked at the midfields in both instances and they consisted of -two hard-working widemidfielders who will get up and down the line. -a central defensively-minded midfielder who will drop back between defence and midfielder to offer protection to the back four. -a creative midfielder who can spot and execute a pass. -an attacking midfielder who will look to get forward and support the lone striker. However, while their forward-runs settings would all differ, their nominal positionals are all within the central midfield strata. This is what I need to exploit. By playing a 4231 deep, I am effectively matching them man-for-man (4 defenders, 5 midfielders and a lone striker), however, the strata used bypasses theirs entirely. The 2 DMCs are multipurprose- in possession: link up with the midfielders in the AM strata, in attack: move forward cautiously to support but remain deep enough to attract the attention of two of the midfield 5, in defence: screen the back four from any possible counter-attacks. The AMCs should- hold their positions in the hole so that the DMCs can find them with direct passes (otherwise we would be a broken team) and run at the defence, causing panic and indecision. In both games, this resulted in a home win. The Burnley game saw us 4v0 up after 20 minutes, so effective was it, but a subsequent switch to 442 by Burnley saw them claw two back for 4v2 at fulltime. The Wolves game was more difficult, with the first goal coming finally around the 70th minute mark, with my AMC (Haris Vuckic) spotting a hole in defence to dribble through and score. (Screenshots to follow) While Burnley and Wolves obviously played different variants of the 451, the basic premise was the same even despite player differences. I've been labelled a tinkerman in the game due to my tendency to switch formations and instructions so readily, but it seems to be working for the most part. Zdlr I am also trying to play a 4231 on my new Arsenal save with two deep midfielders. Could you give me some information on what roles and duty you give to your two DMC and your AMC. How do you ensure that the gap between your DMC and your attacking quartet is not too big. What I mean is do you have your AMC on support or attack duty Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZdlR Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Zdlr I am also trying to play a 4231 on my new Arsenal save with two deep midfielders. Could you give me some information on what roles and duty you give to your two DMC and your AMC. How do you ensure that the gap between your DMC and your attacking quartet is not too big. What I mean is do you have your AMC on support or attack duty I don't use the tactics creator and manipulate the sliders manually, but I can give you the gist. Against Burnely, being the better team and at home, both the DMCs were probably akin to deep lying playmakers on support roles. For this I used Danny Guthrie and Yohan Cabaye - while both can contribute defensively, their natural game is passing. They were both given the last notch of mixed passing, dead-centre mentality, mixed forward runs and run with ball with try through balls often. Against Wolves, I swapped out Guthrie for Tiote who was given more of a deep-lying playmaker with a defend role, because he can create but is more of a destructive force. The AMCS were all quite similar, instructionally - Hatem Ben Arfa, Haris Vuckic and Jonas Gutierrez from left to right. The key was to keep their mentality about dead-centre with no forward runs whatsoever. Lateral movement was ok, but anything that took them further away from the DMCs would have been counter-productive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobBRFC Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 Just thought I'd have a go at positing a counter to a particularly nasty AI tactic: the flat 451.Firstly, if I'm neither a team likely to challenge for the title, nor a team likely to fight against relegation, I usually end up playing as a reactionary tactical magpie: playing a game specifically to counter the opposition and stealing ideas from others as I go along. The new scout reports allow you to see how the opposition are likely to line-up and with which players in certain roles, so you can reliably tailor your tactic to counter their strengths and highlight their weaknesses. The flat 451 aims to flood the midfield, maintain possession for the most part but also to aim direct passes up to the lone striker who will wait for reinforcements or win a foul, easing pressure on his defence. It also allows for swift counter-attacks which commit a four of the five midfielders forward to try to overwhelm a defence that has been caught by surprise. This is how Burnley and Wolves have just set up against me in the League Cup and Premiership, respectively. Both of which were played at home for my Newcastle team. I looked at the midfields in both instances and they consisted of -two hard-working widemidfielders who will get up and down the line. -a central defensively-minded midfielder who will drop back between defence and midfielder to offer protection to the back four. -a creative midfielder who can spot and execute a pass. -an attacking midfielder who will look to get forward and support the lone striker. However, while their forward-runs settings would all differ, their nominal positionals are all within the central midfield strata. This is what I need to exploit. By playing a 4231 deep, I am effectively matching them man-for-man (4 defenders, 5 midfielders and a lone striker), however, the strata used bypasses theirs entirely. The 2 DMCs are multipurprose- in possession: link up with the midfielders in the AM strata, in attack: move forward cautiously to support but remain deep enough to attract the attention of two of the midfield 5, in defence: screen the back four from any possible counter-attacks. The AMCs should- hold their positions in the hole so that the DMCs can find them with direct passes (otherwise we would be a broken team) and run at the defence, causing panic and indecision. In both games, this resulted in a home win. The Burnley game saw us 4v0 up after 20 minutes, so effective was it, but a subsequent switch to 442 by Burnley saw them claw two back for 4v2 at fulltime. The Wolves game was more difficult, with the first goal coming finally around the 70th minute mark, with my AMC (Haris Vuckic) spotting a hole in defence to dribble through and score. (Screenshots to follow) While Burnley and Wolves obviously played different variants of the 451, the basic premise was the same even despite player differences. I've been labelled a tinkerman in the game due to my tendency to switch formations and instructions so readily, but it seems to be working for the most part. Excellent post this is exactly the kind of thing that iis good, and it opens up discussion as well. Ill copy this into one of my reserved posts at the top if you dont mind, then when you sort the screenies out you can send me the URL and i'll put them in if thats ok with you? On your actual write up I find myself playing against the flat 4-5-1 quite often in the lower leagues and i usually can get a result. I find myself doing the same thing in trying to use player inbetween their strata's but not too abstract that they dominate the game. I would change my DM from defend to support but still with quite a low mentality so that he helps my two CM's so they dont get dominated. I would also change me AML/R to a support role and make them more defensive so that they track back a little more and pick up the wide midfielder THats with me playing a 4-1-2-2-1, im not a massive tinkerer as you are but I do tweak little bits. Although I rarely ever stray from my base formation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZdlR Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Excellent post this is exactly the kind of thing that iis good, and it opens up discussion as well. Ill copy this into one of my reserved posts at the top if you dont mind, then when you sort the screenies out you can send me the URL and i'll put them in if thats ok with you?On your actual write up I find myself playing against the flat 4-5-1 quite often in the lower leagues and i usually can get a result. I find myself doing the same thing in trying to use player inbetween their strata's but not too abstract that they dominate the game. I would change my DM from defend to support but still with quite a low mentality so that he helps my two CM's so they dont get dominated. I would also change me AML/R to a support role and make them more defensive so that they track back a little more and pick up the wide midfielder THats with me playing a 4-1-2-2-1, im not a massive tinkerer as you are but I do tweak little bits. Although I rarely ever stray from my base formation. Yeah, cheers for including in the OPs, much appreciated I'll try to get some screenshots done this evening (Atlantic Time). I'm really enjoying FM12 now. It usually takes me 6 months to get to grips with the new version of FM each year, and this one is no different, but somehow getting up to 2nd with nearly the default Newcastle squad after 15 games has understandably captured the imagination. I was worried that the formation fluidity would ruin any chances I had of tinkering successfully, but the constant changes haven't had too much of a negative impact. Slightly unrelated - there's a new motivation for players in-match: `playing calmly`. I had three players on that in my last game - all defenders. Had never seen this before - does it give players a composure/concentration boost? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobBRFC Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 Do you look at any frailties in their CB's (ie. pace, positioning, etc..) to determine how to play you Strikers before the match? I always get stuck whether to play a DLF or Poacher just looking at attributes alone and never really figure out what's best to start with. This generally leads me to having to change strikers half way through the match to try and cause them problems. The one thing I have noticed is that if your opponents playing quite a high line from kick off then it seems more effective to play a DLF sitting just infront of the D-Line to provide through balls for other faster players. However if theyre sitting deep, I'm now swerving towards playing a poacher-esque player to sit just on the shoulder of the CB's and try and run onto a through ball from the wingers or the more advanced CM. Skipped over this post earlier sorry so I will reply now Yeah That is a very good thing to look at. There are the obvious things like slow defenders quick strikers, fast more agile defenders stronger stiker. But I also look at things like posititoning and marking, sort of the defenders footballing intellignece. A very unintelligent defender would be more likely to be dragged out of position by your Deep Lying Forward, whereas a more "intelligent" defender may know not too follow him and leave him for the DM/Midfield. Hopw that helps a little Yeah, cheers for including in the OPs, much appreciated I'll try to get some screenshots done this evening (Atlantic Time). I'm really enjoying FM12 now. It usually takes me 6 months to get to grips with the new version of FM each year, and this one is no different, but somehow getting up to 2nd with nearly the default Newcastle squad after 15 games has understandably captured the imagination. I was worried that the formation fluidity would ruin any chances I had of tinkering successfully, but the constant changes haven't had too much of a negative impact. Slightly unrelated - there's a new motivation for players in-match: `playing calmly`. I had three players on that in my last game - all defenders. Had never seen this before - does it give players a composure/concentration boost? No problem, just need some more people to start posting their thoughts and it will start filling up with more helpful guides/tips Wow congrats with Newcastle, is that in the first season as well? They do have a pretty solid team after the update I suppose. How have you got the Ba/Cisse partnership working? I know I noticed the "playing calmly" as well. I love it when all my players have it at half time because I play a patient passing game so it obviously does wonders if they are all calm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZdlR Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Wow congrats with Newcastle, is that in the first season as well? They do have a pretty solid team after the update I suppose. How have you got the Ba/Cisse partnership working?I know I noticed the "playing calmly" as well. I love it when all my players have it at half time because I play a patient passing game so it obviously does wonders if they are all calm It's the original team from the start of the season, so no Cisse, unfortunately. It's the first season though, yes. While Ba is good, he has like 5 for natural fitness (not sure if that has changed) and is definitely scoring quite high for injury proneness. He's also very inconsistent, it would appear. They Newcastle researcher must be a right pessimist! Instead, I bought Rochina from Blackburn and Jelle Vossen, both of which have been severely underwhelming so far. I thought Vossen's mental stats would carry him, but his physical stats are really letting him down - too slow to move, too weak to stand still. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobBRFC Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 It's the original team from the start of the season, so no Cisse, unfortunately. It's the first season though, yes. While Ba is good, he has like 5 for natural fitness (not sure if that has changed) and is definitely scoring quite high for injury proneness. He's also very inconsistent, it would appear. They Newcastle researcher must be a right pessimist!Instead, I bought Rochina from Blackburn and Jelle Vossen, both of which have been severely underwhelming so far. I thought Vossen's mental stats would carry him, but his physical stats are really letting him down - too slow to move, too weak to stand still. ahhh right, im not sure what he is like on the new database, 5 for natural fitness seems very very harsh though. On my Blackburn save Rochina was quality for me (he's more of a backup now). DLF Support was immense. Pulled the defence everywhere could beat a man and score as well. How do you play him?> Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZdlR Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 ahhh right, im not sure what he is like on the new database, 5 for natural fitness seems very very harsh though. On my Blackburn save Rochina was quality for me (he's more of a backup now). DLF Support was immense. Pulled the defence everywhere could beat a man and score as well. How do you play him?> He's been a bit of a utility forward for the most part. I tried him at AML for a couple of games once an on-fire Marveaux got injured, but he's definitely no winger. Even trying to play him as some kind of super-attacking auxilliary foward in that position didn't work. He's more thoughtful and deliberate than I first thought when I bought him. In my last game, a tight 0v1 at Fulham, he partnered Ba up front and was the deeper of the two. He has 'comes deep to collect ball' so he's ideal for link strikers with the midfield in a flat formation like 442. He was up against Senderos for about 60 minutes and, while he certainly didn't set the game alight, Senderos was replaced with Aaron Hughes - must've been doing something right. He's clearly a very raw talent and, with Ba really not finding form, I'm still looking for an out-and-out 20-goals-a-season striker. Cisse would have been that player, but alas I was too impatient and started the game before the patch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobBRFC Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 He's been a bit of a utility forward for the most part. I tried him at AML for a couple of games once an on-fire Marveaux got injured, but he's definitely no winger. Even trying to play him as some kind of super-attacking auxilliary foward in that position didn't work. He's more thoughtful and deliberate than I first thought when I bought him. In my last game, a tight 0v1 at Fulham, he partnered Ba up front and was the deeper of the two. He has 'comes deep to collect ball' so he's ideal for link strikers with the midfield in a flat formation like 442. He was up against Senderos for about 60 minutes and, while he certainly didn't set the game alight, Senderos was replaced with Aaron Hughes - must've been doing something right. He's clearly a very raw talent and, with Ba really not finding form, I'm still looking for an out-and-out 20-goals-a-season striker. Cisse would have been that player, but alas I was too impatient and started the game before the patch. Still though to be second after 15 games can't be that bad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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