Can SI still delay the full release?

I was just wondering as it seems a short time from when the demo is released untill the full version comes out, I thought they would have released a demo before the game goes gold so if we find any bugs which we are bound to then they can fix them before release.

Any thoughts would be appreciated:)

Demo's are not betas. They go through extensive testing by professional game testers so they don't need 15 year olds to tell them what to do. Not saying you are, but thats what probably would happen. All demos are released once a game goes gold. Especially a game like this.

If anybody finds a bug in the demo, it's fixed in the first patch.

I was just wondering as it seems a short time from when the demo is released untill the full version comes out, I thought they would have released a demo before the game goes gold so if we find any bugs which we are bound to then they can fix them before release.

Any thoughts would be appreciated:)

If you read the latest blog on the HMV website, Miles goes into some detail regarding the process for testing and releasing the game - including the procedures SEGA have for quality control.

I was just wondering as it seems a short time from when the demo is released untill the full version comes out, I thought they would have released a demo before the game goes gold so if we find any bugs which we are bound to then they can fix them before release.

Any thoughts would be appreciated:)

Not that I want to start a stampede but I spoke to a mate of mine last night who's brother works for Sega, he has given him a copy of the game that is apparently 95% finished, he said that the game was amazing and the 3D ME brilliant. Someone told him to expect the demo to be available on the 28th!

I was just wondering as it seems a short time from when the demo is released untill the full version comes out, I thought they would have released a demo before the game goes gold so if we find any bugs which we are bound to then they can fix them before release.

Any thoughts would be appreciated:)

Don't be silly. That would be far too intelligent.

The exact same thing was said 2 years ago when the demo came out after the game was put into production and the exact same thing happened last year. And the result?

It took them 5 months and 2 patches to put the game right.

God knows I love the FM series, but this 'release' date is nothing more than a mirror to give them 4 or 5 months more time to put the game right - just like always.

I would just like to know when the game goes gold, how long does it normally take for a game of this size to be made and ready for retail sales. I no this game is out on the 14th and im more than happy to wait like all other years. I just wouldnt have a clue and im just interested?

A Demo is just an opportunity for players to try out the game before deciding to buy it. I imagine very little changes in the code between demo and full release other than major bugs found by SIs own testers.

What you're thinking of is a Beta, not a demo.

The demo has always been a demo of the final version.

What can be achieved by professional game testers in a day can be achieved by demo players in 1 hour, I would imagine. It's all about volume and I very much doubt SI Games has 15,000+ testers.

There was a year where they did release a beta. I forget what year it was.

What can be achieved by professional game testers in a day can be achieved by demo players in 1 hour, I would imagine. It's all about volume and I very much doubt SI Games has 15,000+ testers.

as stated in this thread that is what a beta test is for - a prime example would be little big planet where a muslim member of the public who got the beta spotted some phrases from the Koran in the music which could potentially offend muslims and needed to be removed from the game.

So yeah having the public test the game is effective but that is a beta test

as also stated in the thread is that a demo is a demonstration of the final product, therefore you try it (bugs an' all) and if you think it is good enough to part with your cash for you do.

There was a year where they did release a beta. I forget what year it was.

I think you'll find it was 2004. I seem to remember a Strawberry and either Gold or Vanilla version!

What can be achieved by professional game testers in a day can be achieved by demo players in 1 hour, I would imagine. It's all about volume and I very much doubt SI Games has 15,000+ testers.

No, but they do have a fair number. It's a closed beta, so you have to be invited onto it - but there is one. I wouldn't worry too much about it, SI know what they're doing.

And there probably would be an open beta, if it wasn't for one or two idiots.

No, but they do have a fair number. It's a closed beta, so you have to be invited onto it - but there is one. I wouldn't worry too much about it, SI know what they're doing.

I wish I could share your enthusiasm but it took 2 patches to get 2008 right - and that wasn't even just for updates. I'm talking basic things like defenders closing strikers down. That is such a simple thing that demo players would pick up on within 4 hours of playing it.

Just because a bug is simple to find doesn't mean it is simple to fix. All software in any domain is released with bugs - some of these are unknown bugs, some are known bugs. If software companies waited until their product was bug-free they'd never release it. When you have a release schedule you have to have a cut-off point for bugs and only real show stoppers can cause a big delay in the release.

If it takes a few months to put a patch together then that is because the bugs that were known at release time (and those that weren't) take that long to fix. Sure it's frustrating if aspects of the game don't work as expected, but it's either that or not have the game released at all until what would ordinarily be the date of the 2nd patch. Personally I prefer to have an initial game with some bugs in it and then get it patched.

LuciferM - Quantity does not necessarily mean quality - a professional tester will investigate how a bug is caused and aim to give the developer steps to repeat it, whereas fans just tend to rant which isn't much use.

For that matter quantity of testers does not even mean quantity of bugs - 15,000+ users are most likely going to log 15,000+ cases of one or two bugs.

Different players will do different things on different computers with different specs. I get what you mean about quantity over quality for sure, and of course you'll get the majority of them being idiots with no constructive criticism or specific explanation, but I still think it'd help more.

'Just because a bug is simple to find doesn't mean it is simple to fix. All software in any domain is released with bugs - some of these are unknown bugs, some are known bugs. If software companies waited until their product was bug-free they'd never release it. When you have a release schedule you have to have a cut-off point for bugs and only real show stoppers can cause a big delay in the release.'

I'd say that defenders not closing down strikers is a bit of an obvious bug.

I do have my doubts about these testers, last year apparently no one from SI didn't notice the one on one bug and they were asking us to upload our save games to check it out. And you really had to be blind not to see it

I'd say that defenders not closing down strikers is a bit of an obvious bug.

Maybe not obvious to fix though. I'm sure SI were aware of it during testing, but it needed something more than just a quick fix to get it working and not unbalance other aspects of teh match engine

From what was said at the time, the defenders not closing down properly bug was introduced fairly late as a result of fixing something else in the match engine. It was flagged up by the testers, but there wasn't sufficient time to fix it and test it thoroughly so a decision was made to leave it in.

No, but they do have a fair number. It's a closed beta, so you have to be invited onto it - but there is one. I wouldn't worry too much about it, SI know what they're doing.

And there probably would be an open beta, if it wasn't for one or two idiots.

So what happened last year regarding the idiots?.I know a beta was released for the public but I've no idea what happened to stop this in the future.

I've heard this mentioned a few times and would be interested to know.

Personally I prefer to have an initial game with some bugs in it and then get it patched.

I suppose thats part of my question really that if you get the demo and you notice bugs will you still buy the game knowing that these bugs will still be in the full version and you might have to wait months for a patch, or would you rather the demo was out for say a few months before final release untill users reported back any bugs that they find in the demo so SI can fix them before final release.

Then it wouldn't be a demo of what you are going to buy though - it'd be some pre-release version that is going to be changed by the time you buy it. I'm sure loads of people would complain then - fixing bugs almost always results in some other things (hopefully smaller) going slightly wrong so people who play the demo and then buy the real thing and find it has bugs in it that weren't in the demo would be pretty outraged.

Then it wouldn't be a demo of what you are going to buy though - it'd be some pre-release version that is going to be changed by the time you buy it. I'm sure loads of people would complain then - fixing bugs almost always results in some other things (hopefully smaller) going slightly wrong so people who play the demo and then buy the real thing and find it has bugs in it that weren't in the demo would be pretty outraged.

I suppose so, well I hope this game is as good as they make it out to be as I enjoyed 08 and still play it now, but I just think with all the changes in this version there is bound to be more problems and I just hope it doesn`t make the long term playing of the game impossible untill a patch is released.

New features always take time to integrate properly. People complain when they are buggy, people complain when a new FM comes out with what appear to be only very insignificant new features from the previous version.

I couldn't get into FM08 at all for the first few months and until the 2nd patch, but that's just the way it is - you can at least get used to some of the new features in the pre-patched version and just hope there are no really show-stopping bugs.

Not that I want to start a stampede but I spoke to a mate of mine last night who's brother works for Sega, he has given him a copy of the game that is apparently 95% finished, he said that the game was amazing and the 3D ME brilliant. Someone told him to expect the demo to be available on the 28th!

and why should we believe him or you don't make this any harder than it is, impatiently waiting the game and the demo

It's highly unlikely that it is true

well i hoped it's not true because that's just illegal to bring home an unfinished copy am i right?

Demo's are not betas.

Ideally - yes, historically - somewhere between alpha and beta.

In a way, playability issues have already become a release tradition.

Despite FML ME testing, FM beta testing / quality control are still below par, so quiet honestly, I don't expect results to be any different this year.

Saludos!

well i hoped it's not true because that's just illegal to bring home an unfinished copy am i right?

I don't think so - I test the game on my laptop which I have to bring home with me

Krondor - expect the situation will be different