Player Growth Type

Players in FM should have a type of growth. Kind of taken from FIFA 07 it'd be good to have something like it:

Growth Type:

One of - Average Early Bloomer, Average, Average Late Bloomer, Gifted Early Bloomer, Gifted, Gifted Late Bloomer, Elite Early Bloomer, Elite, Elite Late Bloomer, Short Prime Early Bloomer, Short Prime, Short Prime Late Bloomer, Early Blooming Sleeper, Sleeper, Late Blooming Sleeper.

We have that in number form.

I've never played FIFA 07 so i'm not totally sure how this system works. But i'm not sure i'd like players to have pre-defined development curves. Surely it works better having development linked to various factors like playing time, club/league standard, coaches, mental attributes etc.

Non-starter.

We have that in number form.

Where? Something new in FM09?

Where? Something new in FM09?

Yes in FM 2009 there will be learning curve for players so that there will be world-class regens aged 19 or 20 years old and for Luca Toni(late peak) type of players

So...in a pro evolution style then of learning curves being different amongst players? Its realistic and a new variable, like it.

Yes in FM 2009 there will be learning curve for players so that there will be world-class regens aged 19 or 20 years old and for Luca Toni(late peak) type of players

Are you sure about that? I've not seen it mentioned in any of the FM2009 stuff.

i remmeber an official statement saying that players will not improve at the same fast rate. that they will have diferent rates of improvement.

i remmeber an official statement saying that players will not improve at the same fast rate. that they will have diferent rates of improvement.

As they should, but that's completely different to having a preset growth type variable, which is what was suggested in the first post.

As they should, but that's completely different to having a preset growth type variable, which is what was suggested in the first post.

isn't it getting to the same answer though? just going via a different route. i'm not a fan of giving these growth types 'nice' names like 'elite bloomer' etc.

seems unnecessary to me to quantify it with a name .

is the original poster saying that we should see what type of bloomer the player is? i think it should be well hidden myself. which is how i think it works, as described in my previous post.

well, there's no need for labels because that would take all the fun and guesswork away...

No need for labels because at a given time, you don't know what the future will hold. To give a player a visible label means you can tell the future. Is Player X slow to develop and a late bloomer? Or will he just never develop because he's lousy? How do you know Player Y is going to fade if he's good now? Maybe he's a legend in the making and will not diminish until he retires.

A diversity of player development curves are fantastic addition to the game. It's improved other sports games by giving the players more realism and personality and depth. Great improvement!

isn't it getting to the same answer though? just going via a different route. i'm not a fan of giving these growth types 'nice' names like 'elite bloomer' etc.

seems unnecessary to me to quantify it with a name .

is the original poster saying that we should see what type of bloomer the player is? i think it should be well hidden myself. which is how i think it works, as described in my previous post.

As I understand it, the orginal poster is saying that every players should have a growth type variable, which determines how their ability progresses throughout their career. This is absolutely the wrong way of doing it, because the players ability should change according to his circumstances (level playing at, first team football, coaching, injuries etc). Luca Toni bloomed late because of his move to Bayern, not because of some intrinsic attribute he has that makes him a late bloomer.

As I understand it, the orginal poster is saying that every players should have a growth type variable, which determines how their ability progresses throughout their career. This is absolutely the wrong way of doing it, because the players ability should change according to his circumstances (level playing at, first team football, coaching, injuries etc). Luca Toni bloomed late because of his move to Bayern, not because of some intrinsic attribute he has that makes him a late bloomer.

I disagree.

Yes, those things have an effect but there are plenty of examples at many levels in all sports that suggest players peak at different ages.

Like others I'm not a fan of a predefined curve but at a very basic level you could limit PA at different age levels. Then if circumstances allowed when he approached his peak you would see significant improvement in his skills/performance.

I'm also fairly sure I've read that SI has included something along these lines in FM09.

I disagree.

Yes, those things have an effect but there are plenty of examples at many levels in all sports that suggest players peak at different ages.

Like others I'm not a fan of a predefined curve but at a very basic level you could limit PA at different age levels. Then if circumstances allowed when he approached his peak you would see significant improvement in his skills/performance.

I'm also fairly sure I've read that SI has included something along these lines in FM09.

You are right in that players peak at different ages, but that's at least as much because of their circumstances as because of genetics (or whatever else is determing their peak age). And also, it's basically impossible to research accurately (i.e. who knows at what age Walcott, Rooney, Messi etc will peak), so any data in there would be just pure guesses. It's better to just let the player circumstances determine it, along with their attributes where relevant.

As I understand it, the orginal poster is saying that every players should have a growth type variable, which determines how their ability progresses throughout their career. This is absolutely the wrong way of doing it, because the players ability should change according to his circumstances (level playing at, first team football, coaching, injuries etc). Luca Toni bloomed late because of his move to Bayern, not because of some intrinsic attribute he has that makes him a late bloomer.

there is some merit to what you say. most late bloomers are genrally due to a better club seeing potential in them. i can't think of any late bloomer that bloomed while staying at the same club.

i'm not sure how SI have done it but they claim to have allowed players to improve at varying rates when compared to each other.

Out of the Park Baseball, the premier baseball sim, has added this type of multiple player development curves in the last couple of annual versions. It was all hidden from users, inside the game, but gave some realistic variety in players' careers. It added some subtle realism and personality to the game. It was a great addition. If FM09 does something similar, I think it will be a welcomed improvement.

How on Earth would a researcher be able to determine a player's future development rate? Wait until he's developed? Oh wait, by then there's no point having one.

To be fair Luca Toni must have done something right to earn a move to Bayern! He was a very good player at Fiorentina too you know! Its just he only started doing well at 28(ish)! This is also proved on WIKI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luca_Toni Mainly the point where it says:

"On May 27, 2006, Toni scored his 31st goal of the season and in doing so, secured the 2005-06 Capocannonieri. Toni also became the first player to score 30 goals or more in Serie A since the 1958–59 season, and the first time since 1933–34 an Italian has done such a feat."

Which is pretty darn impressive!

I think the player growth thing they are introducing will be fine! - It sounds very good!

How on Earth would a researcher be able to determine a player's future development rate? Wait until he's developed? Oh wait, by then there's no point having one.

Well they either guess or its random.

At the end of the day its a game I couldn't really careless if one game Rooney starts going downhill at 25 while in another he is World Player of the Year at 32.

Once the game loads and starts what happens in the real world isn't really important anymore (At least to me).

Hmmm, perhaps that could have been worded better but you know what I mean

I'm gonna throw my hat in with bigdunks camp - it's ridiculous to say that every players career is mapped out from the start. and what would you do with Teddy Sheringhams regen? he's had more comebacks than the Spice Girls. what camp does he fall into?

Yes in FM 2009 there will be learning curve for players so that there will be world-class regens aged 19 or 20 years old and for Luca Toni(late peak) type of players

That will be good.

I disagree.

Yes, those things have an effect but there are plenty of examples at many levels in all sports that suggest players peak at different ages.

Like others I'm not a fan of a predefined curve but at a very basic level you could limit PA at different age levels. Then if circumstances allowed when he approached his peak you would see significant improvement in his skills/performance.

I'm also fairly sure I've read that SI has included something along these lines in FM09.

This makes quite a bit of sense to me too. I would love it if FM did it like this:

There wouldn't be a CA curve but there would be a PA curve and whether CA actually lives up to that PA curve would be up to surroundings, coaches, playing time etc. What's currently called PA can then be potential ability at the peak of the curve, which can still stay predefined. I absolutely love this since it will vary player growths and make them less predictable. Also, no one can predict the future as people are saying, so shape of curve should be chosen randomly within certain limits so that in each savegame, it's different.