Everyone Please Read This It's Important

Is it just me or is FM2008 obviously too hard?

Now I have fallem in love with this years offering from SI, but a lot of people seem not to like it.

Claims of AI cheat come up daily.

But something I've noticed is that some people are not just asking for advise on formations, Team Instructions etc. but they are now asking for peole to pick the team for them!

Wheres the fun?

Your the Manager thats the whole point of the FM series, YOU pick the team.

Now I'm not going to be a hypocrite and say I have not used the tactics that some people have generously posted and I have to give special credit to polat_dgn who's 2 tactics to conquer your league and CL on 8.0.2 (4-4-2 and Counter) has really made me enjoy this game. But I pick the side, I develpoed the team and what I say goes.

Of course people are right to ask these guys "what type of player would be most effective in this role"? but surely when you list your squad and ask what team you should play it really is making the money you spent on this more useful wiping your arse and taking this too far?

Or is it a sign that FM08 is too hard?

Personally I think it probably the most challenging FM yet and therefore the best.

I don't want to be able to win every game right from the get go I enjoy the torrid relegation battles and every challeng the game has to offer, thats the reason the game is there, the struggle makes the achievement of getting your BSN side to the Champions League in 10 years, of turnimg your relegation candidates into contenders for that European place worth it.

Isn't it?

Or am I just one of those romantics? Who loves this game because you get the chance to take a run down club in the bottom leagues to the top through all the promotion races and relegation battles.

Whats the point if your not the Boss?

Is it just me or is FM2008 obviously too hard?

Now I have fallem in love with this years offering from SI, but a lot of people seem not to like it.

Claims of AI cheat come up daily.

But something I've noticed is that some people are not just asking for advise on formations, Team Instructions etc. but they are now asking for peole to pick the team for them!

Wheres the fun?

Your the Manager thats the whole point of the FM series, YOU pick the team.

Now I'm not going to be a hypocrite and say I have not used the tactics that some people have generously posted and I have to give special credit to polat_dgn who's 2 tactics to conquer your league and CL on 8.0.2 (4-4-2 and Counter) has really made me enjoy this game. But I pick the side, I develpoed the team and what I say goes.

Of course people are right to ask these guys "what type of player would be most effective in this role"? but surely when you list your squad and ask what team you should play it really is making the money you spent on this more useful wiping your arse and taking this too far?

Or is it a sign that FM08 is too hard?

Personally I think it probably the most challenging FM yet and therefore the best.

I don't want to be able to win every game right from the get go I enjoy the torrid relegation battles and every challeng the game has to offer, thats the reason the game is there, the struggle makes the achievement of getting your BSN side to the Champions League in 10 years, of turnimg your relegation candidates into contenders for that European place worth it.

Isn't it?

Or am I just one of those romantics? Who loves this game because you get the chance to take a run down club in the bottom leagues to the top through all the promotion races and relegation battles.

Whats the point if your not the Boss?

This is not important.

I agree with your post, i really do love the game but i find it easy sometimes for example finished 4th 1st season with the toon and won 2 cups, 2nd season 2nd in the league with all the cups, 3rd season everything and was flying in 4th season and didnt want to carry on anymore so resigned and now took over bolton who were bottom of the league with 9 mil to spend and have guided them out of the bottom 3 into the 5th round of the fa cup and playing really well. And now enjoying it again because my challenge is to battle against relegation and the team i have i know that won't be happening as i feel i can get them into europe. But it's just the game even 4 seasons in has a pull and makes you want to play it. Even sold all my consoles as they never get played on cos i play fm more than anything else on any system

I don't think the game itself is too hard.

Making head or tail of tactics is way too hard in my opinion.

This needs to be simplified for 09.

If I want to set up a tactic I shouldn't have to spend ages on the tactics forum to figure out what does what.

I was considering making a "Beginners Guide", like an FM for Idiots (excuse the idiots part lol) any suggestions as to what should definately be in it?

I like it being hard. more chalanging it is, it's more fun and quality stuff for me.

but I understand people who claim that it's too hard. one of the reasons is probably in sliders. there's no official explaination what they do. at least not a good one. how to make the right combiantion for your style. I got feeling that even best mamangers in the world wouldn't have much succes with FM. we should be able to know how AI sets their tactics, after all this a game where we need to beat AI. tactical system should be more simplfied (but at the same time even more detailed) by giving exact roles and instructions to our players not improvizing with slider combinations.

IMO all this is the main reason why we struggle with this game. I only use my tactics, but I can tatally understand someone who doesn't. many people just don't have the time and wilingness to improvize and they can do whatever they want with their game.

I fully agree. Random post but yes. It's not that FM is too hard, its just that people sometimes don't try enough. Like all my downloaded tactics. But it is how you enjoy it I suppose and if asking for the team on here means people will enjoy it, then fair play.

I think the game is still far too easy, it is ridiculously easy to bring a team from the the Blue Square South or Blue Square North through to the Premier League, and you can actually do it without spending a single penny on players, due to the ease in signing loan players who are far too good for the division and also the players available on frees.

As Richard said though, the tactical side needs a mojor overhaul. It is this that puts a lot of people off the game (yes, I know SI are enjoying record sales with FM 08).

The concept of having sliders with 20 different positions is just plain daft, and bears no resemblence to real life. For example with passing all you need is one touch, short, mixed, direct and long.

The way things are now, just leads to a lot of fretting as to whether you have just lost a game because you had closing down on your centre backs set one notch too high and silly stuff like that.

The tactical instructions need to be far more akin to the instructions a real life manager could give, rather than the way they are now.

Finally, the quality of the testing and patching of the match engine needs to be improved, so that we don't end up with a match engine like the one we are stuck with now, that is completely flawed with regard to set pieces, and corners in particular.

Tip 1: Don't spend the money and time on the game if you are just going to get someone on the Tactics Forum to pick your starting 11 as well as your tactics. You are meant to be the boss!!!

Tip 2: If you expect to win every game right from the very start go play something else.

a little explanation as to why I posted this.

In a thred on the tactics forum I noticed that a few people were actually asking what they're starting XI should be!

What is the point in saying heres my squad, pick my team please.

I object to the thread title, but putting that aside and moving onto the actual post, I think the game is a lot harder than it has been in some previous versions, but I don't think it is too hard.

Obviously there are bugs like teh whole corner scoring thing that make it easier if you choose to exploit it to its full, but I think it is a very good challenge that has me hooked for the most part now. There are things that feel unrealistic and infuriating, but that is to be expected. Many of these things were added to try and improve realism, but have not really been developed in enough depth to be realistic yet and thus can actually detract from the realism (team talks come to mind...).

All in all though FM has always tried to be the most realistic football sim it can be. Look at the real life game and the idiotic number of manager sackings there are - that is how difficult it really is being a football manager. I have no idea how many football management games there are now, but even without having played most of them I know that many will be easier (and less realistic) than FM so those who want an easier game can try one of those.

As far as taking other people's advice on things goes, I guess everyone can play the game how they like. I take advice on very few things because I like to make my own mistakes, but that is just me. Some people prefer to have others tell them which are the best players to sign every single game, to give them a ready made tactic, to give them a load of artificial analysis on team talks so that they will always select the best one, etc, etc, but that is up to them ultimately.

Some people just want to win every game pretty much. And I think that's understandable, personally. I would hate it because it's not realistic, but still..

Thing is, the game has never and I assume won't ever be set up that way.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I object to the thread title </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did too, as it goes.

Well I'd change it if I could now.

I thought it was important I just don't see the point in wasting money if your going to get someone on the tactics forum to run your team.

One other thing I meant to add - it is dangerous to have the game towards the "too hard" part of the spectrum rather than "too easy" though because if it is too hard then there is nothing you can do to improve your enjoyment much (apart from learning how to improve in various areas).

If it is too easy those with even a modicum of imagination can always make it more challenging for themself when playing against the AI and if plying in multi-player just play with people you trust to play by any rules you set down.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GRANTOMAC:

Well I'd change it if I could now.

I thought it was important I just don't see the point in wasting money if your going to get someone on the tactics forum to run your team. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Everyone thinls their own thread is important, but the thread title should give a concise idea of what the thread is actually about rather than just shouting out at people to read it without them having any idea what it contains.

Ok I get the point.

Sorry Everyone!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> In a thred on the tactics forum I noticed that a few people were actually asking what they're starting XI should be!

What is the point in saying heres my squad, pick my team please </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's a form of showing off, I think. Also, if your squad is so big it's nice to get a second opinion, especially if you are "attached" to your pretend players. Just like you'd ask the opinion of your coaches, but real gamers are more reliable than the ones the game gives you.

I think it's a horses for courses as bridport_james said. Some people just want to play the game and get enjoyment from winning, regardless of whether or not they use someone else's tactics and buy the exact same players as the tactic creator.

As for the level of difficulty my experience of it has been that it is as hard as I want it to be relative to how good I am at the game. I refer to what swash posted

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">originally posted by swash:-

I think the game is still far too easy, it is ridiculously easy to bring a team from the the Blue Square South or Blue Square North through to the Premier League, and you can actually do it without spending a single penny on players, due to the ease in signing loan players who are far too good for the division and also the players available on frees. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am not making any judgement on how you play the game swash so please don't take offence . In relation to promotion from BSS/BSN how realistically you decide to play the game will affect this based on my experience. In my first save as Fisher I decided to play by strict LLM rules so I only bought/signed players my scouts brought to my attention and I never loaned players who I felt would not join a semi-professional team in a real life comparison and I did not get a parent affiliate club. I got stuck in the BSP for 5 seasons and got fed up because mid table mediocrity year in year out makes for a dull gaming experience for me. So I am not a purist and lean more towards the game side than the simulation side.

I started another Fisher save and didn't play by LLM rules and shot up the leagues rapidly through using the player search screen , getting a parent club and attempting to loan every single youngster I could from teams in leagues way above mine.

As I said making no judgement on how others play the game, how you decide to play when managing a lower league club will in my experience affect your level of success. Of course if you are a tactical genius and lady luck is on your side then shooting up the league ladder might still be pretty easy for you, but for me when I restricted what I could do it made it far far harder (or in my case impossible ).

I don't disagree with what Richard76 and swash said about the tactical interface, and it's lack of intuitiveness and perceived ambiguity has been posted on by many before and probably will be by many after. Unfortunately I think SI feel that figuring out what the sliders etc. do and how to get your team playing the way you want (assuming it is possible within the constraints of the match engine and tactical options) is part of the gaming experience. So I wouldn't hold my breath on any future overhaul.

@ Nomis07

There is a guide by one of the game's creators here

http://www.sigames.com/downloads.php?type=game&id=25

It's for 07 but most of it applies to 08 as well. You might want to have a look at that before you attempt your own guide.

i read the title and thought "this guy has cured baldness!" you haven't cured baldness, i'm dissapointed.

Again sorry for the title.

Isuckatfm

No offence taken!

I know what you are saying, but SI use the word realism a lot in their marketing etc, so imo it should be down to the game itself, not to allow you to sign unrealistic players etc. You are right that you can make the game more realistic yourself, but it's difficult to play a game and not try your hardest to succeed. To me it would be like developing a successful tactic and then abandoning it, because it is doing too well.

I haven't used any parent clubs to succeed, all I have done is looked at the loan and free transfer lists, and approached players I thought would do a job. To me it is weak programming if players will join clubs at a lower level than they really should.

FM 2008 is not too hard, it is more realistic, and for me, still not real enough.

Just think like this, when in a million years could some unknown club, now playing in 3. or 4. English league, or somewhere in Eastern Europe, hire totally unknown manager, and in 5-6 seasons fight in the CL, increase budget for millions, gather most of gifted players around the world, and become one of the best clubs in Europe???

Answer - NEVER! Even it is hard to do in FM 2008, it is totally unreal, and can't be done in real life. That's why FM 2008 is not too hard, just more realistic...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by swash:

Isuckatfm

No offence taken!

I know what you are saying, but SI use the word realism a lot in their marketing etc, so imo it should be down to the game itself, not to allow you to sign unrealistic players etc. You are right that you can make the game more realistic yourself, but it's difficult to play a game and not try your hardest to succeed. To me it would be like developing a successful tactic and then abandoning it, because it is doing too well.

I haven't used any parent clubs to succeed, all I have done is looked at the loan and free transfer lists, and approached players I thought would do a job. To me it is weak programming if players will join clubs at a lower level than they really should. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's impossible to make it so that no player in the game would ever join a club that they wouldn't in real life. There are always examples in real life of surprising transfer moves or players dropping divisions to get first team football. If you don't want to apply your own restrictions then that is entirely your choice, but a lot more realism has been implemented in scouting now so that if you use your scouts to find you players you would never come across most of those players who shouldn't be moving to your club.

The Player Search function has always been there, but is obviously totally unrealistic - it's just a gameplay feature that makes sense because a lot of people want to use it. Similarly choosing to play with Attributes unmasked is unrealistic, but it is there as an option. Just because something doesn't have a tickbox at the start of the game for you to turn off doesn't mean you can't exercise your own self control in-game and use only those features which you think fit with the style you want to play. Maybe you just enjoy taking a team from the BSN to the EPL in 6 seasons or whatever.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">originally posted by swash:-

I know what you are saying, but SI use the word realism a lot in their marketing etc, so imo it should be down to the game itself, not to allow you to sign unrealistic players etc. You are right that you can make the game more realistic yourself, but it's difficult to play a game and not try your hardest to succeed. To me it would be like developing a successful tactic and then abandoning it, because it is doing too well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

exactly my opinion on it too.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">originally posted by swash:-

I haven't used any parent clubs to succeed, all I have done is looked at the loan and free transfer lists, and approached players I thought would do a job. To me it is weak programming if players will join clubs at a lower level than they really should. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can't disagree with your there and do feel if realism is the key they maybe need to refine the code so that the parent club effect of them being more likely to join you is toned down, as well as the way a player from a professional club would join a semi-professional one with crap facilities (I would think in the real world clubs would be more reluctant to do this). I do think it's an area that could do with looking into. Maybe if we start a thread where people can post about the exact details of who they have loaned a pattern might emerge and assist SI in seeing if there is an issue (assuming they believe it is an issue and that they aren't already evaluating it).

The game is as easy or as hard as you make it. If you WANT you can make this game simple by loaning in players beyond the quality of your league, using the corner exploit, signing world class players on frees, choosing world class teams even, etc etc.

The game has its flaws but like most games its up to the player to decide if they wish to exploit those flaws or not.

I do agree about the tactics though. FM08, no matter what update, has been one of the worst in the series for a long time when it comes to tactics. You can't experiment with them as much as you could in FM07, or you'll be in the relegation zone quickly.

My biggest gripe about the tactics is in past series you would form a tactic to fit the players available to you. In FM08 you have to fit the players to your tactics, because most simply won't work.

i like the game being harder, i mean on FM07 i had a tactic that was so good the computer copied it completely and about 16 of the premier league teams ended up using it, and still couldnt beat me. I won a clean sweep of every single trophy possible 2 seasons consecutively, and frankly its not fun when its easier to win a trophy than to lose 1, i actually appreciate my success now.

maybe a solution would be some rough framework tactics included as default, not as specific or as effective as ones you have worked on and tweaked, but maybe a 4-4-2 formation could come with a passing, creative instructions, and another 4-4-2 with a direct style, etc etc

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bullion1:

i read the title and thought "this guy has cured baldness!" you haven't cured baldness, i'm dissapointed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have the cure........

Deffiniatly not important...........

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MuppetMaestro:

This is not important. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

WHS