Amazing Tactic for one Season then... what?

Hi, I am a little frustrated with this, so here is my story.. I did one fantastic season with Real Madrid, many goals scores won everything with one good consistent tactic... but... new season came.. and... The tactic dont WORK for nothing really.. my team is the same, no new players.. nothing, One team that knows how to play one season.. next season knows how to play again, can not play that 100% but.. c*mon, it will not disappear!

And it isnt just for me that happened, my partner is suffering the same... we waste one season tweaking the tactic.. then with a new season.. nothing? I already played 10 games, are miserable games... I dont score, i attack half of what I did attack and I just dont score, and them off-course.. one attack.. one goal, from far, from close.. amazing. So.. what the hell? I dont understand, never happened this to me on the other FM's.

Hi, I am a little frustrated with this, so here is my story.. I did one fantastic season with Real Madrid, many goals scores won everything with one good consistent tactic... but... new season came.. and... The tactic dont WORK for nothing really.. my team is the same, no new players.. nothing, One team that knows how to play one season.. next season knows how to play again, can not play that 100% but.. c*mon, it will not disappear!

And it isnt just for me that happened, my partner is suffering the same... we waste one season tweaking the tactic.. then with a new season.. nothing? I already played 10 games, are miserable games... I dont score, i attack half of what I did attack and I just dont score, and them off-course.. one attack.. one goal, from far, from close.. amazing. So.. what the hell? I dont understand, never happened this to me on the other FM's.

I feel your pain lol ive been stuck in championship with leeds for 4 seasons, in my last season i managed to create a tactic and got my leeds playing some good stuff i finished in playoffs but lost to cardiff anyway im about 12 games into season 4 and my team are shocking think im 4th bottom i dont know whats gone wrong

hmm.... I also understand where your coming from it can be very frustrating, i'm not sure why it happens.

The only tactic i have been able to use and work succesfully would be 4-5-1 with short passing and quick at closing down. I have the 3 Central Position and 2 high pushing wingers and seems to work well and has for my Team Grimsby for two seasons on the bounce.

Haha, you're lucky yours lasted a whole season! Most mine's lasted has been 3-4 months. I had a time with Rushden where I dropped about 8 points from 20 matches, got to the cusp of promotion, bottled it. Next season, no wins in 14. Resigned.

Second season syndrome is back!

Second season syndrome is back!

Did it ever go away?

I believe A.I learn your tactics if you dont change/tweek them, try swapping your wingers about so they cut in more. Works for me.

My tactics last about four or five games before my players become masters of the sitter and AI centrebacks start regularly nailing 40 yard long shots to get "OMG! HIS FIRST GOAL EVAR! WHAT ARE THE ODDS?!" After re-simming numerous matches with different tactics/instructions only to get the same result over and over, I'm beginning to wonder how much tactics actually matter. It seems like I can get the same result from the default 4-4-2 and the only thing matters is my team's historical reputation. If I want to "win," I play Chelsea or Man U; if I want to be arbitrarily battered down by a predictable sequence of improbable slumps and opponent super-goals season after season, I play a lesser team.

There's no such thing as the AI cracking your tactics.

What actually happens is that your reputation an/or that of your team has risen and so the opponents see you as more of a threat and play more defensively then they would have done the previous season.

You just need to make some subtle tactic changes to cause the opponents more problems, for example having a AMC playing in the hole if you don't already have one or use different shouts to make the most of any weakness. For example last night I played a team in the relegation places and they packed the midfield, but only had 3 DCs. So I played wider and focused down the flanks more then I would normally do and won 1-0

I believe A.I learn your tactics if you dont change/tweek them, try swapping your wingers about so they cut in more. Works for me.

Please don't repeat such nonsense.

People who don't know better may believe your completely false statement.

Spankie's reply is correct.

A.I. cracks tactics since 2002 , users with +500 posts are part of the conspiracy .

A.I. cracks tactics since 2002 , users with +500 posts are part of the conspiracy .

Of course you are correct on both counts

I assume you have a problem with the moon landings, JFK and Elvis' deaths etc?

I've experienced the same with my East Stirling team, first season was amazing only losing 1 game until February, then lost 3 in a row. Got promoted scoring the most and conceding the least and finding it much too tough in the second season, with a stronger team, especially at home.

I've put it down to the opposition knowing more about "me" and how I play so I'm changing from 4-4-2 to 4-1-2-2-1 in the hope I can some stability.

*edit* Wether or not my "reason" for having to change is valid, thats how I'm thinking of it. If you compare to real life, think how much formations have changed over the years.

I think your reasoning is valid, I changed from a 4-1-2-1-2 to a 4-1-3-2 and had a much better effect in the higher division. Although I do occasionally brush off the old tactic to shake things up if I'm struggling of if the oppostion pack the midfield.

Of course you are correct on both counts

I assume you have a problem with the moon landings, JFK and Elvis' deaths etc?

The reputation rise? Nah.. not even the others teams change, same tactic, same players... even with SMALL TEAMS, and believe me.. very small and weak teams i see that my team dont go there.. but well.. some how i feel happy that is happening to everyone and not just for me. So for final... its a waste of time trying to find a GOOD TACTIC( I have been searching foruns and try to adopt everything good in the tactics for tweaks in mine HOURS and HOURS of testing), because its a matter of time that the magic disappear... I am very disappointed. For me FM11 is over, maybe with a correction it will be back.. or just FM12 later... 45 euro for one season (for a few weeks, 9 hours of play). lol

Best Regards friends.

LMOF, using other peoples tactics is not the way to go. Everyone has different teams and different players, so a tactic that worked for one person probably won't be as effective for anyone else.

I think the way to go is to look at the players you and and fit a tactic around them. For instance in my game I started without any wingers, so I made a narrow 4-1-2-1-2 tactic that worked and worked so well that I never bothered signing any wingers. After promotion I found that the tactic wasn't so effective so I droped the AMC back to MC to make a 4-1-3-2 formation.

You're probably trying to change too much all at once with your tactics, that shotgun kind of tactical management would never work well not even IRL because it takes an awful long time for players to get used to big tactical changes, just look at the familiarity levels in the Match Preparation screen for proof.

If the tactics worked on the first season then you just need to make small changes until the team performs much better, the successful first season proves that your tactics can work. You just need to work out how to adapt them to the change in tactics that your oppostion have started to make when playing against you.

I was just lucky that a player position change and a couple of changes in player roles was all that was needed on my first season tactic to get things working as I wanted them to in the second season. I'm certain that another promotion will mean another change and I'm also certain that the change will have to be much more severe, possibly along the lines of getting wingers in.

basically, if you want to win every single game without really having to do more than pick a starting 11 go find another game.

If you actually want to act like a football manager dealing with lots of things that can upset a team or game plan then stick with it, mess around with tactics and player instructions until you get them winning again. Remeber you will not win every game or the league every season, football doesnt work like that.

Did you exit the game and load it back up by any chance?

With the tactic i use, i've noticed that i'll dominate possession and do really well untill i save and quit. Then the next time i load FM up (without changing anything with my tactic) i then struggle to keep posssession and my tactic doesn't do as well untill save and quit.

Then the next time i load up FM i dominate possession again and my tactic seems to do very well.

(I'm stubborn and refuse to change my tactic wether doing well or poor, and i have noticed that there is a randomness with my tactic each time i quit and load FM11 back up )

I think SI have done this to counter act the super tactics etc.

LMOF, using other peoples tactics is not the way to go. Everyone has different teams and different players, so a tactic that worked for one person probably won't be as effective for anyone else.

I think the way to go is to look at the players you and and fit a tactic around them. For instance in my game I started without any wingers, so I made a narrow 4-1-2-1-2 tactic that worked and worked so well that I never bothered signing any wingers. After promotion I found that the tactic wasn't so effective so I droped the AMC back to MC to make a 4-1-3-2 formation.

You're probably trying to change too much all at once with your tactics, that shotgun kind of tactical management would never work well not even IRL because it takes an awful long time for players to get used to big tactical changes, just look at the familiarity levels in the Match Preparation screen for proof.

If the tactics worked on the first season then you just need to make small changes until the team performs much better, the successful first season proves that your tactics can work. You just need to work out how to adapt them to the change in tactics that your oppostion have started to make when playing against you.

I was just lucky that a player position change and a couple of changes in player roles was all that was needed on my first season tactic to get things working as I wanted them to in the second season. I'm certain that another promotion will mean another change and I'm also certain that the change will have to be much more severe, possibly along the lines of getting wingers in.

For start don't read this like I was "fighting or something like that.. lol. So it begins now... .. I didnt use the tactic from anyone, I did copy ideas from other tactics ( good points ) and mixed and tweak at my own way. And I do not see the problem for using another person tactic, is perfect normal, I dont have any problem with that and neither should have the game.

But sticking to the topic, the thing is that, I do believe that the others TEAMS will get better...but what is in this topic is not that, the problem is that one TACTIC that worked and all the players were used to just did disappear, have no effect even with VERY SMALL teams, fro me that is a problem... but let's say that if it was like I would go play with SEVILLA that last game had 2 center midfields, and now it has 2 midfield defenders that would block more effectively my attack.. Ok, that I will accept without any problem. But the thing is that it don't work even with very small teams, teams that are not even in the THIRD LEAGUE, so yes.. houston we have a problem.

But believe.. i do not have any problem now, already delete the file, but funny, new SEASON just for "testing" and the team is KILLING, but in a few months, not even a little bird will kill.. strange hein? in others FM i had a tactic for many seasons, offcourse I had to change a little here and over there.. but this one.. I could change everything.. it just dont go.. so what's the point of preparing match's?

But it is just a point... and believe me.. I do love FM.. but there are things very ridiculous.

And milnerpoint it isnt about WINNING EVERY GAME, I do not understand that reply honestly, that for me would be a "trash reply", its a FACT on this game, I did not talk about WINNING EVERY GAME, open your eyes and read slowly instead of BANG BANG BANG... on the topic, and you will see that it isn't about WINNING every game.

Best Regards

There's no such thing as the AI cracking your tactics.

What actually happens is that your reputation an/or that of your team has risen and so the opponents see you as more of a threat and play more defensively then they would have done the previous season.

You just need to make some subtle tactic changes to cause the opponents more problems, for example having a AMC playing in the hole if you don't already have one or use different shouts to make the most of any weakness. For example last night I played a team in the relegation places and they packed the midfield, but only had 3 DCs. So I played wider and focused down the flanks more then I would normally do and won 1-0

What your saying here is generally true but were talking about Real Madrid here. Do you really think that after a good first season (which is expected), teams are now thinking ' oh hand on a minute, these guys are quite good. Maybe we should try harder'?. So in this case I dont really think you can say a rise in reputation is playing a part here (thats if it has risen at all seeing as its already quite high). Its most definately the tactics issue. Too many games playing the same way makes you predictable. And unfortunately in FM once you do that you need to change something. Its sad really because top teams IRL play the same way for years on end and teams know exactly how they will play but the top teams still win most of the time.

To the OP: Are you using the Tacics Creator or the classic sliders?

This thread absolutely sums up the basic problems people are having with the game. Despite there being a host of options that illustrate why you need a stable formation and dynamic playing strategies, people still try to tweak sliders in a futile attempt to create super tactics and invent ridiculous theories to explain runs of form.

Let's get rid of the stupid myths first:

1: Changing formation, swapping wingers or changing slider settings does not suddenly unbreak the AI's tactics cracking. Why? Because the AI doesn't crack tactics. It reacts to reputation, conditions, match score etc in a logical and understandable way.

2: Turning the PC on and off does not reset form to stop players dominating the AI. You go on streaks and slumps because you aren't able to work out how to change things logically enough to extend good runs and break bad runs. Good management will extend streaks and break slumps, bad management (which can include randomly changing formation and playing style) will reduce streaks and extend slumps and laissez-faire management will make results look random. The one thing you don't have is a super-tactic that the game is unfairly cracking when you turn it on and off.

So, what to do?

1: Firstly, recognise that the match preparation screen is more than cosmetic. You need a stable and solid base formation and a gelled side before you can expect any good runs of form. You also need to have a basic strategy for approaching each match type. I use the following:

• Match I expect to dominate: Team Blend (should win anyway, so spend some time building the team understanding)
  
• Match I expect to win: Attacking Movement: Make sure I have the best chance of converting attacking sequences of play
  
• Match I hope to win: Defensive Positioning: Make sure I keep it tight at my end and hope to snatch goals on the counter
  
• Match I expect to be a struggle: Attacking Pieces: Try to keep things as tight as possible and score form a set piece
  
• Match I expect to lose: Defensive Set Pieces: Try to frustrate opposition in open play and then successfully defend the resulting set pieces
  
• Match I expect to be dominated in: Team Blend (very little chance of a result, so work on team understanding)
  

I'd prefer this type of strategy to be automated so I didn't have to click the screen every match, but beggars can't be choosers. NB: My own strategy is just one of many options you might decide upon. Just make sure there is some logical consitency in whatever approach you decide to follow.

2: Play each match according to the conditions, relative formations and relative abilities of the teams.

Conditions: Don't try to play pretty football in bad conditions.

• Good pitch, good conditions: Play whatever style you prefer
  
• Wet conditions: Extend your passing, consider more long shots
  
• Hot conditions: Reduce your passing, consider working ball into box
  
• Heavy conditions: Use the flanks to avoid the chewed up mire in the centre of the pitch
  
• Freezing conditions: Use the centre to avoid the frozen ground on the flanks
  

Formations: Target key opposing players in different formation shapes, e.g:

• Lone wide players (i.e. no wide midfielders or no full backs): Target the flanks, try to put player under pressure when in possession
  
• Lone DMC: Can be useful to specific mark him to stop him controlling possession
  
• Lone FC with no AM support: Can be useful to close him down to prevent him holding the ball up long enough for support to arrive
  

Reputations: Consider the odds and try to work out the best way to beat them

• Long odds favourite: Patience may be needed as the opposition will invariably sit deep
  
• Favourites at home: Take advantage of the home crowd backing and hit them early
  
• Favourites away: Control possession until heads drop
  
• Close odds: Don't take too many early risks
  
• Poor odds: Try to frustrate and hit on the break
  
• Terrible odds: Try to frustrate and silence the home crowd
  

Please remember, this is my base logic and is not the only way of approaching these matches. You might be more aggressive or more cautious than I am and have different ideas on how to counter these variables.

3: Learn to read the match

Even if you are the best motivator/tactician in the world, sometimes your team will have a terrible first half. Recognising that this is happening and counteracting this is vital to long term form. The key thing to look out for is your players lsoing all their 50/50 challenges, getting to balls late and struggling to keep possession in the opposition half. You need to react quickly and sort things out in the dressing room at half time.

Tactical reaction: Play more conservatively and clear the ball from danger (use the shouts and strategies)

Dressing room reaction: Praise the best one or two players, tell the rest you are disappointed and ask those really underperforming to go and prove a point. This should kick start performance and give you a fighting chance of winnign the 2nd half.

Another important thing to learn is how to ensure a team doesn't slacken off in the second half after an OK-to-good first half performance. The last line of in-match commentary before half time can be very helpful in determining which approach to use.

• Team has the lead in a match you expect to win but doesn't really deserve it: Warn against complacency/performance dropping
  
• Team is playing as expected: No team talk, deal with a few individuals playing well/badly
  
• Team has played well but doesn't have the lead or a big lead: Encourage
  
• Team is playing very well: Pleased
  
• Team has dominated from start to finish: Delighted
  

If you consistently do all the above well, random results and long streaks/slumps will become a thing of the past.

sensational post wwfan

much appreciated