Bringing catenaccio back to Internazionale (I need your help)

[Red Horizon]

I've decided my FM21 save is going to be with Inter Milan and I want to try and replicate Helenio Herrera's catenaccio system and be successful with it, I'm very skeptical about how well lower mentalities work on the game and I'm hoping to prove myself wrong with your help.

What is Catenaccio?

Catenaccio (Italian pronunciation: [kateˈnattʃo]) or The Chain is a tactical system in football with a strong emphasis on defence. In Italian, catenaccio means "door-bolt", which implies a highly organised and effective backline defence focused on nullifying opponents' attacks and preventing goal-scoring opportunities.

 

Helenio Herrera's catenaccio

Giuliano Sarti

Sarti is regarded by pundits as one of the greatest and most successful Italian goalkeepers both of his generation,[4] and of all time.[6] A consistent and reliable keeper known for his shot-stopping abilities,[4] he was also highly regarded for his composure, personality and strong mentality, as well as his positional sense in goal, which enabled him to make efficient rather than spectacular saves which relied more on athleticism.[7][8]
Sarti (left) with Juventus in the 1968–69 season, in a break workout with his teammate Roberto Anzolin.

He was also known for revolutionising the role of the goalkeeper in Italy, functioning as a "sweeper keeper", due to his tendency to rush off his line to anticipate opposing strikers, or to be involved in the build-up of plays by coming out of his area to receive or play the ball out to his defenders.[3][9] In one on one situations, however, he usually preferred to remain closer to his line and position himself with his body constantly facing the shooter, in order to increase the distance between himself and his opponent, giving him more time to parry the ball; this playing style, which was later described as "geometric" rather than "reactive" by Sarti, was considered unusual for the time, but very effective

Armando Picchi

A quick, versatile, and tenacious defender, Picchi began his career playing as a forward or as a central defensive midfielder, before being moved to right back, where he excelled, but later came into his own in the libero role. Picchi was primarily an old-fashioned sweeper, who was mainly known for his defensive skills, strong physique, and ability to win back, intercept and clear loose balls as a last man, while he was not particularly good in the air, due to his small stature; despite his more traditional, defensive-minded interpretation of the role, he was, however, also occasionally capable of getting forward, and of carrying the ball out into midfield, or starting plays from the back-line, due to his good technique and ability to read the game. Regarded as one of Italy's greatest defenders, and as one of the best sweepers of his generation, he was highly regarded for his tactical intelligence as well as vocal leadership on the pitch, and was known for his ability to organise the back-line and motivate his teammates

 

Tarcisio Burgnich

A strong, large, quick, and energetic player, Burgnich is regarded as one of the greatest Italian defenders of his time; his ability in the air, imposing physique, consistency, and his aggressive, efficient playing style earned him the nickname "La Roccia" (The Rock), despite not being particularly tall. A former offensive, central midfielder, he was a tactically versatile, intelligent, and hard-working footballer who was adept at aiding his team both offensively and defensively; he was capable of playing in several defensive positions, and throughout his career, he was deployed as a centre-back, as a sweeper (in particular in his later career), and as a right-sided full-back or wing-back, where he particularly excelled in Herrera's catenaccio system, due to his pace, stamina, physicality, and tenacity. He formed an important partnership with the more offensive minded left-back Facchetti during his career, which is regarded as one of the greatest full-back pairings in football history; although he was less adept at starting attacking plays from the back-line than Facchetti, the more defensive minded Burgnich was an "old-fashioned defender", being an excellent man-marker and a hard tackler, who was difficult to beat in one on one situations. He was also known for his anticipation and reactions, as well as his concentration and discipline both on and off the pitch

 

Aristide Guarneri

Aristide Guarneri (Italian pronunciation: [aˈristide ɡwarˈnɛːri]; born 7 March 1938) is an Italian former footballer who played as a defender. Initially a fullback at the beginning of his career, he was later usually deployed as a centre-back, where he excelled due to his anticipation, tackling, marking, and ability to read the game. Guarneri was known as a "gentleman of the game", as he never received a red-card throughout his career, despite being a tenacious defender.

 

Giacinto Facchetti

Regarded as one of the greatest full-backs of all time, Facchetti's pace, stamina, power, and excellent physical and technical traits allowed him to excel as an offensive full-back or wing-back; a former forward and midfielder, he was known for his ability to make attacking runs down the left flank and get into good offensive positions in the area which allowed him to either score or assist goals, due to his powerful shot and crossing ability, and was known for his tendency to cut into the centre in order to strike on goal, which was very unusual for full-backs at the time.[1][2][3][9][11][12][13][14] A strong, large, elegant, and hard-working footballer, who was good in the air, he was highly regarded for his ability with either foot, as well as his distribution, and ball skills; he also excelled defensively, playing as a sweeper as he lost some of his pace later in his career, due to his technical skills, distribution, intelligence and ability to read the game or start plays from the back after winning back the ball, as well as his man-marking ability, positioning, anticipation and tackling.[4][12][14][15] A precocious talent in his youth, he also stood out for his longevity in his later career.[12] In addition to his footballing ability, he was also known for his correct behaviour on the pitch, as well as his leadership;[1][5][14] he was sent off only once throughout his entire career, for sarcastically applauding the referee.[4]

 

Jair da Costa

An extremely fast and agile winger, with quick feet and good technique, Jair was also known for his powerful striking ability and his great pace on the ball; due to these abilities, he was also capable of functioning as a striker. He was also known for his dribbling skills and use of elaborate feints.^[2][8]

Gianfranco Bedin

Primarily a ball-winner, Bedin was known in particular for his anticipation, stamina, work-rate, man-marking, and his ability to read the game as a defensive or box-to-box midfielder, which allowed him to support his more creative and offensive teammates defensively. A modern, two-way player, he was also capable of starting attacking plays and getting into good offensive positions after winning back possession

Luis Suárez

Suárez is regarded as one of Spain's greatest players. He is also regarded as one of the greatest football players of all time. He was noted for his elegant, fluid, graceful style of play.[1] Nicknamed El Arquitecto - The Architect - he was noted for his perceptive passing and explosive shot, and in 1960, he became the only Spanish-born player to win the Ballon d'Or. In 1964 he helped Spain win the European Championship. Suárez originally achieved prominence as a creative inside forward, or attacking midfielder in modern terms, for the great Barcelona team of the 1950s before he joined Inter Milan where he reached his prime as deep-lying playmaker for the legendary Grande Inter team of the 1960s. He played a pivotal role in the success of Herrera's Inter Milan side, and was one of the primary creative forces in the squad, due to his skill on the ball, vision, and passing range.[2] He retired as a player in 1973, after three seasons at Sampdoria.

Mario Corso

A predominantly left-footed player, Corso was noted for his consistency, intelligence, pace on the ball, and stamina as a winger, as well as being renowned for his accurate distribution, crossing ability, creativity, and wide range of passing with his stronger foot, which made him an effective playmaker. He was capable of playing both on the left and right flank, due to his ability to provide crosses from the touchline on the left wing, or cut into the middle to strike on goal from the right. An atypical winger, he was notorious for his lack of tactical discipline, and often played between the lines in more of a central, free role, as a sort of attacking midfielder; because of this, he was capable of playing both as a forward and as a midfielder. Although he was not particularly quick footed, he was gifted with tenacity and a good physique, as well as class, outstanding technical ability, close control, flair, and dribbling skills. An accurate free-kick taker, he was known in particular for his powerful, bending knuckleball free-kicks and shots from distance. In spite of his ability, the journalist Gianni Brera accused him of being inconsistent, lacking dynamism, and having a poor defensive work-rate, something which Corso himself denied, however; as a result, Brera gave Corso the nickname "past participle of the verb "to run"", a reference to his surname, as well as the fact that, according to Brera, Corso did not run a lot during matches, preferring to make the ball move.^{[1][2][3][4][5]}

Sandro Mazzola &  Aurelio Milani/Joaquin Peiro

Sandro Mazzola, son of Torino star Valentino, played in a slightly withdrawn trequartista position. He was, however, the main goalscorer of La Grande Inter, mostly from close range or mazy dribbles, as the main striker – whether that be Aurelio Milani, Joaquin Peiro or Beniamino Di Giacomo – was generally the odd man out, because he simply wasn’t all that special. Their main job was to occupy the defenders enough to help Mazzola. The exception to this was Argentinian Antonio Valentin Angelillo, whose 33 goals in 33 appearences for Inter in 1958-59 remains a record, but Herrera disapproved of his lifestyle and he was sold on.

This is also a very good article about how the system worked on a whole - https://www.holdingmidfield.com/catenaccio-revisited-herreras-inter/

 

This is how I plan to set the tactic up on the game and I'm looking for your advice and suggestions...

The roles and duties I'm unsure about are as follows

Sarti - defend,support or attack?

Facchetti - Complete wingback or inverted wingback?
Jair da Costa - Complete wingback or defensive winger?

Corso - Inside forward, Inverted winger or Raumdeuter?

Suarez - Deep lying playmaker or other?

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by BusbyFergieJose

[Wavelberry]

Am gonna follow this thread with interest especially coz I loved @Ackter's one from a few years ago. I tried to make it happen in FM19 but couldn't make it work at all so good luck.

[Red Horizon]

I've decided on these roles and duties (and starting 11) to start the save with, it has become clear from reading inverting the pyramid that the centre back on the left side was a stopper so i have changed that duty, there is a stand out quote from Herrera in the book which is “In attack, all the players know what I wanted: vertical football at great speed, with no more than three passes to get to the opponent's box. If you lose the ball playing vertically, it's not a problem—but lose it laterally and you pay with a goal” This is why I have gone with more direct passing coupled with extremly high tempo.

I was hoping to add 'play defensive football' to my club vision but for some reason I couldn't find where to put it in? has that been taken out? I'm predicted to finish 1st and my board want us to win the title which is concerning as I could end up getting sacked even if we find the system is working, I don't believe Inter have won the title since 2010? I'm playing with reputation sunday league footballer and no coaching badges.

 

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by BusbyFergieJose

[RTHerringbone]

Remember Hakimi can play on the left side too. He's such  good attacking player it's a bit of a compromise to have him as a cautious Defensive Winger. I'd prefer him in Perisic's place and probably use Perisic ahead of Sanchez.

What you'll need to focus on with this system is your attacking transitions - will they have enough oomph? I think you'll defend solidly enough but catenaccio wasn't an outright defensive approach. You'll have no real attacking outlets on your right side so do keep an eye on that balance. When I read the description of Jair, I don't think of a Defensive Winger on Defend and with three at the back AND a BWM you'll be able to be braver on that side.

[NotSoSpecialOne]

Interested to see how this goes. I've considered having a pop at catenaccio lately but always shy away from it because the Libero isn't well.. a Libero.

[Red Horizon]

1 hour ago, RTHerringbone said:

Remember Hakimi can play on the left side too. He's such  good attacking player it's a bit of a compromise to have him as a cautious Defensive Winger. I'd prefer him in Perisic's place and probably use Perisic ahead of Sanchez.

What you'll need to focus on with this system is your attacking transitions - will they have enough oomph? I think you'll defend solidly enough but catenaccio wasn't an outright defensive approach. You'll have no real attacking outlets on your right side so do keep an eye on that balance. When I read the description of Jair, I don't think of a Defensive Winger on Defend and with three at the back AND a BWM you'll be able to be braver on that side.

I've been undecided what to do with the Jair role, I've been back and forth between complete wingback support/attack and defensive winger, the constant references of him being a winger that defended well made me go with the latter, I mean if i was building this system myself it would have been an easy choice with a wingback, He's also always much further forward then the wing back on the opposite side on formation diagrams and Faccheti himself it seems was a very attacking wingback.

"On the other side was Brazilian Jair da Costa, tasked alone with covering the entire right flank for Inter. There appears to a misconception that he was a full-back who attacked like Facchetti, most likely down to our tendency to note formations as symmetrical, when rather he was a tornanti – a winger who tracked back. Rather than any sort of tackling ability, Jair used his skill at reading the game to anticipate opposition moves and cut them out. "

Looking at it i think a defensive winger on support could be my best bet (he covers more of the right flank that way) judging from the tactics screen.

Edited November 18, 2020 by BusbyFergieJose

[mikcheck]

What about Lautaro? I know you only use 1 striker, but I think he could perfectly fit the IF role. He's too good to be on the bench, in my opinion.

Edited November 19, 2020 by mikcheck

[Red Horizon]

Catenaccio has worked almost perfectly in pre season and we are yet to concede a goal, of course that could change once the season starts but the early signs are good, We are playing some very nice counter attacking football and when the opposition do attack they often find themselves swamped by our defenders and with no passing options. Achraf Hakimi seems to be covering the right flank very well as a defensive winger on support and I sometimes change him to defend if we are leading.

The one thing that isn't matching up with Herrera's catenaccio system at present is the Mazzola (trequartista) role that I have Christian Eriksen playing in, Eriksen doesn't seem to be getting many goal scoring opportunities at all and if it continues we will have to make a change if we want to replicate the system, That could be by trying someone else in that position or perhaps changing the role to a shadow striker? The deep lying playmaker also seems to be playing very closely to the trequartista (Numbers 23 and 24) so using a shadow striker could solve that problem also.

Edited November 19, 2020 by BusbyFergieJose

[NotSoSpecialOne]

You're playing very direct and fast, which is a style to my mind, that makes it hard for something like a Trequartista to get properly involved in. A shadow striker may help here, especially if you want it to be the primary goal threat. I do wonder if he might get bypassed still, so a rethink of the forward role might be a possibility - something'll that help play the TQ/SS in.

[Red Horizon]

3 hours ago, NotSoSpecialOne said:

You're playing very direct and fast, which is a style to my mind, that makes it hard for something like a Trequartista to get properly involved in. 

I agree, I'm thinking perhaps Lukaku as a TM-S and Martinez as the SS could work nicely. 

Edited November 20, 2020 by BusbyFergieJose

[Red Horizon]

First game of the season and a brilliant 1-0 victory against Napoli at home, I must make it clear that we never change from defensive mentality, if we end up having to chase a game i will change team instructions, player instructions etc but never mentality.

 

Edited November 20, 2020 by BusbyFergieJose

[Jean0987654321]

Looks good to me. I have tried to make a similar setup to these in the past. Unfortunately, we have stripped of the sweeper here so it's not exactly gonna be proper but it's the best we can do.

 

Classic formations can be tough to emulate. I had partial success with emulating Zona Mista and WW in past FMs...

[Wavelberry]

How is flexible playing out for you? Because it's a system that relies on players doing what they're told and playing the ball forward quicker I'd have been tempted to move down to Structured or Highly...

[Red Horizon]

On 21/11/2020 at 10:00, Wavelberry said:

How is flexible playing out for you? Because it's a system that relies on players doing what they're told and playing the ball forward quicker I'd have been tempted to move down to Structured or Highly...

I've gone back to structured as it didn't seem to be working, Lukaku playing as a target man wasn't working either and Lautaro Martinez has been terrible so far.

nevertheless we haven't conceded a single goal in our first 4 league game's so hopefully with a bit of tinkering up top we can gain some ground on juventus.

[WhyMe]

Have you tried Lukaku DLF-a?  Seems to be that a SS AF combo wouldn't be great but the SS-DLF-a might work rather well.

[Red Horizon]

1 hour ago, WhyMe said:

Have you tried Lukaku DLF-a?  Seems to be that a SS AF combo wouldn't be great but the SS-DLF-a might work rather well.

It's something that will be worth a try and is probably my preferred combination when using a shadow striker, but I always find the advanced striker works better in a counter attacking system, but then we do need to make the most of the shadow striker if we are to replicate the system.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Red Horizon

[Red Horizon]

It's worth noting that I have the player instruction (stay wider) set for the Tarcisio Burgnich role as he was classed as a 'center-right defender' or a 'narrow positioned right back'

Edited November 24, 2020 by Red Horizon

[Red Horizon]

Struggling to the score goals against the weaker sides, which is probably down to my stubbornness in refusing to change mentality?

[facman]

6 hours ago, Red Horizon said:

Struggling to the score goals against the weaker sides, which is probably down to my stubbornness in refusing to change mentality?

I think it is more to do with your In Possession TIs than mentality. Weaker sides will get behind the ball and invite you to play through them, and your side is trying to do that with no width, extremely quickly with no time allowed for dwelling on the ball, and with direct passing. Mentality is more about risk taking than anything else.

Have you tried adjusting your TIs to give your team more time on the ball and more creative freedom?

[Hunter T]

Why are you forcing opponets to go outside? 

I mean, it makes moer sense to me, the way i see it, to force oppponets to come through the middle as much as posssilbe, since you have lot of manpower there (plus the narrow formation).