Best way to play a 4-2-3-1?

[Hammy_Alpha]

Hey all,

How do you play your 4-3-2-1? I am kinda struggling with mine it can be drastically incosistent and sometimes my ST is not involved in play as well as my IW's as well. I am curious to see how others set up and why they set it up like that. Thanks!

[Overmars]

I gave up on using an AP role in that AMC spot. I feel like they face a lot of formations with a DMC, and they just don't get much room to operate. Furthermore, the FM20 AI defenses tend to defend quite narrow, which makes it even trickier for the AMC. They seem to be more effective when told to roam around like a trequartista or attack the box like an AM(a)/SS(a). With that in mind, I then use a DLP role behind the AMC spot. I also like to position the two central midfielders in the DM strata because then I can be more aggressive with the fullbacks. For the wide players, I think you need at least one winger. If using IF/IW, I instruct them to stay wider or else they cut inside far too quickly and spoil the spacing. Using two wingers works well, and they still cross to each other for those ubiquitous header goals at the far post. For the striker, a lot of options work. A target man can really work well with three attack-minded runners behind him. A CF is great if the forward is strong mentally. A DLF can be good too, much in the same way a target man is. I tend to go with a pressing forward, though, because they get so many cheap goals off of stealing possession from clumsy defenders.

As for team instructions, it's positive or attacking mentality mixed with urgent pressing and a higher line of engagement.

[ThomasHK1979]

2 hours ago, Overmars said:

I gave up on using an AP role in that AMC spot. I feel like they face a lot of formations with a DMC, and they just don't get much room to operate. Furthermore, the FM20 AI defenses tend to defend quite narrow, which makes it even trickier for the AMC. They seem to be more effective when told to roam around like a trequartista or attack the box like an AM(a)/SS(a). With that in mind, I then use a DLP role behind the AMC spot. I also like to position the two central midfielders in the DM strata because then I can be more aggressive with the fullbacks. For the wide players, I think you need at least one winger. If using IF/IW, I instruct them to stay wider or else they cut inside far too quickly and spoil the spacing. Using two wingers works well, and they still cross to each other for those ubiquitous header goals at the far post. For the striker, a lot of options work. A target man can really work well with three attack-minded runners behind him. A CF is great if the forward is strong mentally. A DLF can be good too, much in the same way a target man is. I tend to go with a pressing forward, though, because they get so many cheap goals off of stealing possession from clumsy defenders.

As for team instructions, it's positive or attacking mentality mixed with urgent pressing and a higher line of engagement.

How about width? Can you post a screen of your tactic?

[Jack722]

I personally haven’t found much success playing a 4231 like the way that you are showing

a supporting advanced playmaker drops quite deep and will probably get in the way of your deep lying playmaker at times. The BBM also compressed space for the number 10, which is already being compressed by inverted wingers.

theres also no natural cover for both wingbacks bombing forward in a 4231, so normally use natural wingers and supporting fullbacks - it gives more space to the CAM, and keeps your flanks secure as you can get your fullbacks to hold position.

I’d also turn your advanced playmaker into an attacking midfielder, to get more numbers into the box.

Jamie Vardy for me pulled Messi and Ronaldo numbers by getting a goal a game for me last time I played a 4231. I had similar instructions to you, but I removed all in possession instructions and passed into space and hit early crosses.

[FMunderachiever]

15 hours ago, Hammy_Alpha said:

Hey all,

How do you play your 4-3-2-1? I am kinda struggling with mine it can be drastically incosistent and sometimes my ST is not involved in play as well as my IW's as well. I am curious to see how others set up and why they set it up like that. Thanks!

You've congested the middle of the pitch too much there I think

[Overmars]

12 hours ago, ThomasHK1979 said:

How about width? Can you post a screen of your tactic?

Here are a couple of examples. I try to keep the more defensive of the two central midfielders on the same side as the more attacking of the two fullbacks. Then I try to have my more attacking winger on the same side as the more conservative fullback. In the middle, I might use a T(a) if I have someone truly special. The AMC tends to come deep when using two DMCs anyway, so I'm rarely worried about the space between DM and AM. Using an AF(a) can produce a lot of through ball one on one chances. So many types of forwards can excel in any of these setups, though I find there is a huge reward for having someone good at jumping/heading/bravery/anticipation in that spot. The wingers will find him repeatedly.

Having an AP on the wing changes a lot of things, and they can draw a lot of attention away from the opposite side. Even a winger role will drift toward the goal when that happens and give the AP lots of options.

As for team instructions, they don't have to be anything spectacular. Like everyone else, I notice better results when defending aggressively, and this formation has a lot of men forward to do just that.

Bottom line: The formation is really versatile. Especially with two DMCs, you will not have glaring matchup weaknesses against anyone.

[Experienced Defender]

On 10/07/2020 at 00:15, Hammy_Alpha said:

 

On 10/07/2020 at 00:15, Hammy_Alpha said:

How do you play your 4-3-2-1?

I think it will be more helpful if I tell you how I would NOT play a 4231 (relative to your tactic). So I would not:

- use 2 playmakers one behind the other

- use roles that occupy and basically compete for the same space with the AMC

- compromise my defensive compactness by increasing the distance between DL and LOE

- pair a non-holding/non-covering CM role (BBM in this case) with an attack-minded fullback role (WB on support in your tactic)

- play for set pieces in a tactic that appears to be looking to control and dominate the game 

- avoid AF as a lone striker role in a tactic that is defensively aggressive and therefore denying him space to operate

[Hootieleece]

I'm sure my tactic is opposite of Experienced Defenders Advice, but it is working well for me in my current save. It started out as a Standard "Tiki Taka" set up by the Tactics module but I then tailored it to my players.

The most important thing of any Tactic is finding the right players. None of my players are "Wonderkids" in the traditional sense but all are very good players that are just starting their careers now IRL, but in save notice it is 2029.

 

The two most important roles are the DLP-S and AM-A

Yes, it is a support role and not a defend role, but does have "hold position" in PI's

His main job is to be the Pirlo of the team. In Current season he has 133 Key passes in 33 matches (Nael Jaby)

Also the AM-A

This is played by an Argentinian "Messi Clone" but look at the PI's. He get about 10-15 goals and 15-20 assists a season. (Matias Palacios)

 

I am willing to take screenshots of any player or of any role if you want to see.

Because I can't really describe why it works, but the most important thing is getting the right players with the right PPM's trained.

The only Regens in the team are

Stanislas Limbombe the RMD

Cedric Gregoire the LB

Maximillian Alt the GK

and Sapetti the BPD

 

[Hammy_Alpha]

12 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

 

I think it will be more helpful if I tell you how I would NOT play a 4231 (relative to your tactic). So I would not:

- use 2 playmakers one behind the other

- use roles that occupy and basically compete for the same space with the AMC

- compromise my defensive compactness by increasing the distance between DL and LOE

- pair a non-holding/non-covering CM role (BBM in this case) with an attack-minded fullback role (WB on support in your tactic)

- play for set pieces in a tactic that appears to be looking to control and dominate the game 

- avoid AF as a lone striker role in a tactic that is defensively aggressive and therefore denying him space to operate

What roles would you change? I am sorry for all the questions just working my way round the tactic system. I thought having the DLP on Defend would fullback and help cover off the defence and then having the WB on Support I would be able have them stay wide while my IWs cut inside creating space . I know my AF is isolated but not sure wether to go for a PF or DLF. I recently changed both IW to Su and both WBs to Su creating a more fluid tactic. The set pieces was selected as my team have an advantage in Set Pieces 

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, Hammy_Alpha said:

What roles would you change?

There are different ways to set up roles and duties in any system, so it always depends on factors such as type of your players, other roles around a certain role, playing style etc. But at least one of wide fwd would be a standard winger in my 4231 tactic, unless I use an AP out wide. Basically, this is how I would usually set up a 4231 if I had a good team looking to play in an attack-minded fashion and controlling matches:

PFat

IWsu            AMsu           Wat

DLPsu   CMde

FBat   CDde  CD/BPDde WBsu

SK

A bit more possession-oriented setup could look something like this:

DLFsu

IFat             AMat         Wsu

DLPde   CAR

WBsu    CDde   CDde   IWBsu

And a version with an AP as a wide fwd:

DLFsu

IFat          AMat         APsu

DLPsu    CMde

WBsu   CDde  CDde   FBat

[Hammy_Alpha]

3 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

There are different ways to set up roles and duties in any system, so it always depends on factors such as type of your players, other roles around a certain role, playing style etc. But at least one of wide fwd would be a standard winger in my 4231 tactic, unless I use an AP out wide. Basically, this is how I would usually set up a 4231 if I had a good team looking to play in an attack-minded fashion and controlling matches:

PFat

IWsu            AMsu           Wat

DLPsu   CMde

FBat   CDde  CD/BPDde WBsu

SK

A bit more possession-oriented setup could look something like this:

DLFsu

IFat             AMat         Wsu

DLPde   CAR

WBsu    CDde   CDde   IWBsu

And a version with an AP as a wide fwd:

DLFsu

IFat          AMat         APsu

DLPsu    CMde

WBsu   CDde  CDde   FBat

Any TIs or PI to assign or just leave as is? Thanks!

[Bitner]

That's my formation

Cheers,
Bitner 

[Urotsukidoji]

the 4 forward players need space, so your ifwd are best playing wide and coming in, if you play amc att if you want him to score, with maybe a dlf, or put him on support for more assists to your fwd. you can still give him the player instruction get forward.

because you play inferted wingers, these suit attacking runs from overlapping fbs.

fast football works with a more direct, but shorter quite fast can work if you are the better team

2 playmakers can be iffy, but can work with a short slow game

your tactic suits playing offside trap

complete fwds work better in a two fwd tactic

Edited July 11, 2020 by Urotsukidoji

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, Hammy_Alpha said:

Any TIs or PI to assign or just leave as is?

Depends on your intended style of play, but in any case try to keep them as simple as possible. You can even start with none and then gradually tweak until you get what you want. 

[Hammy_Alpha]

2 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Depends on your intended style of play, but in any case try to keep them as simple as possible. You can even start with none and then gradually tweak until you get what you want. 

Thank you for explaining and your time!