Traditional 4-4-2

[toffee71]

After issues with under performing AMC in 19, I started trying more 2 striker formations initially a 4-2-2wide-2 which was great against weaker teams, then a straight 4-4-2 and a 4-2dm-2wm-2 for the big boys and I adapted these from a 4-2-3-1 setup using more modern player roles, the front 2 are a PF(a)+CF(s) seem to work well on 20 at the moment. What I would like to do is build a traditional 4-4-2, which anybody who watched British football in the 70s and 80s will know what I mean, I also want to make it a 3 in 1 tactic so one of the alternatives would be adjusted mentality and lines and the third possibly a 4-1-3-2 with narrow wide midfielders. I plan on testing during beta and then long term to bring 80s 4-4-2 back to the top. I would like to get advice on player duties for the traditional game, also on whether 3rd tactic should be 3 at the back or another off the back of the 4-4-2? Tactical style I'm guessing clean slate, just let them play, basically no TI or additional PI well apart from use offside trap. I'm also interested in advice for a 4-4-2 based tactic for use against the big boys, as my defensive tactic that I used in 19 against the big boys just isn't cutting it in 20, though I also introduced it after few seasons with squad so that may influence the effectiveness.

I see the 4-4-2 like this          GK(d)

                                          FB CD CD FB     Should the FB be support or auto? CB traditional but NCB acceptable?

                                      WM CM CM WM  Should WM be W? One CM on def other on sup or att?                                      Possible the WM mark opposing FB/WB?                             4-1-3-2 with a DM(s)+CM(d)+2WM?

                                              TM ??             As much as I'm enjoying my PF+CF pairing at the moment, traditionally I think it has to be a TM plus I think poacher, don't think the other alternatives suit?

Any feedback or thoughts welcome.

Edited November 5, 2019 by toffee71

[lferreira]

You can do it many ways. Not sure how it works in FM 2020, but @Rashidi 4-4-2 is brilliant especially if you have a good target man and a midfield pairing that's competent for your division.

I took his tactic and adapted it a little bit for my team, as I'm Milan. So far I've lost two games, currently in the second month of my second season.

Some tips:

- A ball playing defender helps a lot with playing from the back.

- You can adapt your offensive style through your WMs. I like one of them cutting inside and acting as a second playmaker and another one getting on the end of things.

- I play a RPM-CAR pairing. If they have an AMC, I change it for a DLP-De and a heavily tweaked CM-Su or a Mezzala on support. The FB on the Mezzala side is then given a more conservative role (IWB-De, FB-Su). 

- The striker partnership can work in many ways. If they don't have a DMC, a DLF-Su + AF-At/PF-At works nicely. If they do, I use a TM-At + PF-At and increase width, telling both my WMs to cut inside. FBs are set to WB-Su. That gives a lot of open shots outside the box for my two midfielders. I only do that when the opposition leaves one man forward though.

- You'll be somewhat reliant on set pieces if crossing is anything like in FM 2019. 

- Ensure you're compact defensively. Higher D-Line and Standard LOE works nicely on positive mentality if you've got the players. I counter press because I'm Milan, but regroup works nicely.

- If you've got WMs with good work rate and midfielders with good positioning and tackling, you'll be alright defensively. Plus the 4-4-2 obliterates the 4-1-2-3 (with both forwards on attack duty, you'll have a 2v2 or 2v3 situation when you retain the ball). I'm still unbeaten versus Lazio, Juve, Roma, Napoli, Inter and Fiorentina. 

- The only impactful signings I've made with Milan were Tonali and Haller. I was tipped for Europa League at the start of the season. You don't need a super team, just the right players in their positions.

Hope it helps!

[nexting]

2 hours ago, lferreira said:

You can do it many ways. Not sure how it works in FM 2020, but @Rashidi 4-4-2 is brilliant especially if you have a good target man and a midfield pairing that's competent for your division.

I took his tactic and adapted it a little bit for my team, as I'm Milan. So far I've lost two games, currently in the second month of my second season.

Some tips:

- A ball playing defender helps a lot with playing from the back.

- You can adapt your offensive style through your WMs. I like one of them cutting inside and acting as a second playmaker and another one getting on the end of things.

- I play a RPM-CAR pairing. If they have an AMC, I change it for a DLP-De and a heavily tweaked CM-Su or a Mezzala on support. The FB on the Mezzala side is then given a more conservative role (IWB-De, FB-Su). 

- The striker partnership can work in many ways. If they don't have a DMC, a DLF-Su + AF-At/PF-At works nicely. If they do, I use a TM-At + PF-At and increase width, telling both my WMs to cut inside. FBs are set to WB-Su. That gives a lot of open shots outside the box for my two midfielders. I only do that when the opposition leaves one man forward though.

- You'll be somewhat reliant on set pieces if crossing is anything like in FM 2019. 

- Ensure you're compact defensively. Higher D-Line and Standard LOE works nicely on positive mentality if you've got the players. I counter press because I'm Milan, but regroup works nicely.

- If you've got WMs with good work rate and midfielders with good positioning and tackling, you'll be alright defensively. Plus the 4-4-2 obliterates the 4-1-2-3 (with both forwards on attack duty, you'll have a 2v2 or 2v3 situation when you retain the ball). I'm still unbeaten versus Lazio, Juve, Roma, Napoli, Inter and Fiorentina. 

- The only impactful signings I've made with Milan were Tonali and Haller. I was tipped for Europa League at the start of the season. You don't need a super team, just the right players in their positions.

Hope it helps!

Could you provide a link to Rashidis thread please.

[Rashidi]

1 hour ago, nexting said:

Could you provide a link to Rashidis thread please.

It's not a post but a video called the Mave's 442, plus i was playing the tactic on my Hoffenheim diaries save.  

 

3 hours ago, lferreira said:

You can do it many ways. Not sure how it works in FM 2020, but @Rashidi 4-4-2 is brilliant especially if you have a good target man and a midfield pairing that's competent for your division.

I took his tactic and adapted it a little bit for my team, as I'm Milan. So far I've lost two games, currently in the second month of my second season.

Some tips:

- A ball playing defender helps a lot with playing from the back.

- You can adapt your offensive style through your WMs. I like one of them cutting inside and acting as a second playmaker and another one getting on the end of things.

- I play a RPM-CAR pairing. If they have an AMC, I change it for a DLP-De and a heavily tweaked CM-Su or a Mezzala on support. The FB on the Mezzala side is then given a more conservative role (IWB-De, FB-Su). 

- The striker partnership can work in many ways. If they don't have a DMC, a DLF-Su + AF-At/PF-At works nicely. If they do, I use a TM-At + PF-At and increase width, telling both my WMs to cut inside. FBs are set to WB-Su. That gives a lot of open shots outside the box for my two midfielders. I only do that when the opposition leaves one man forward though.

- You'll be somewhat reliant on set pieces if crossing is anything like in FM 2019. 

- Ensure you're compact defensively. Higher D-Line and Standard LOE works nicely on positive mentality if you've got the players. I counter press because I'm Milan, but regroup works nicely.

- If you've got WMs with good work rate and midfielders with good positioning and tackling, you'll be alright defensively. Plus the 4-4-2 obliterates the 4-1-2-3 (with both forwards on attack duty, you'll have a 2v2 or 2v3 situation when you retain the ball). I'm still unbeaten versus Lazio, Juve, Roma, Napoli, Inter and Fiorentina. 

- The only impactful signings I've made with Milan were Tonali and Haller. I was tipped for Europa League at the start of the season. You don't need a super team, just the right players in their positions.

Hope it helps!

Glad to see you've been using one of the tactics from FM19, quite a few still continue to work on FM20. And i really like what you have done with some of the player instructions.

[lferreira]

1 hour ago, Rashidi said:

It's not a post but a video called the Mave's 442, plus i was playing the tactic on my Hoffenheim diaries save.  

 

Glad to see you've been using one of the tactics from FM19, quite a few still continue to work on FM20. And i really like what you have done with some of the player instructions.

Thanks man. Your 4-4-2 was the most successful tactic I've used in FM 2019 and it's refreshing to be able to play it and achieve success. I was kinda sick of the 4-1-2-3/4-2-3-1.

By the way, awesome channel.

[lferreira]

2 hours ago, nexting said:

Could you provide a link to Rashidis thread please.

Check his channel, Bustthenet.

[mikcheck]

This is interesting because I was thinking about changing to a traditional 442, a formation that I've never had much success with. But now that I've finally won the Champions League with my Real Sociedad team, I think it's time to change things a bit, because I'm bored to play the 4-1-2-3, I want a change. So I was thiking about this:

 

I want my main goalscoarers to be the DLF and the left WM. The reason I have him on support, it's because he has "gets forward whenever possible" PPM, does it make sense to keep him o support or should I just change it to attack? My BBM has that same PPM.

PI's:

Left WM - Sit narrower, Cut inside, Roam from position, Dribble More

BBM - Moves into channels

F9 - Roam from position, Close down more, Hard tackling

DLF - Close down more, hard tackling

Playing on positive mentality

What do you think overall? Thanks.

 

Edited November 7, 2019 by mikcheck

[BlueScreen]

Em 05/11/2019 em 19:21, Rashidi disse:

It's not a post but a video called the Mave's 442, plus i was playing the tactic on my Hoffenheim diaries save.  

You don't know the teams you coach 

[toffee71]

On 07/11/2019 at 10:11, mikcheck said:

This is interesting because I was thinking about changing to a traditional 442, a formation that I've never had much success with. But now that I've finally won the Champions League with my Real Sociedad team, I think it's time to change things a bit, because I'm bored to play the 4-1-2-3, I want a change. So I was thiking about this:

 

I want my main goalscoarers to be the DLF and the left WM. The reason I have him on support, it's because he has "gets forward whenever possible" PPM, does it make sense to keep him o support or should I just change it to attack? My BBM has that same PPM.

PI's:

Left WM - Sit narrower, Cut inside, Roam from position, Dribble More

BBM - Moves into channels

F9 - Roam from position, Close down more, Hard tackling

DLF - Close down more, hard tackling

Playing on positive mentality

What do you think overall? Thanks.

 

I only gave the 442 a go out of frustration and boredom, I don't think I've used 442 this century in FM!4231/433 has been the way for me for way too long. In 19 I'd done a 4-2-4 but when I tried that in 20 it was awful. But playing as Everton I'm really enjoying my football with 442, am pushing for top 4 with 10 games to go in first season, likely to finish 6th, first half of season was pretty good except against the big 6, only 2pts scored 4, conceded 16, but in 3 reverse fixtures so far 4pts and really unlucky loss to city, 2 reds major injury and 2 var disallowed goals on the plus have scored 3 or more 9 times against the rest though, using these formations the second tactic is for when in control of game or odd away match barely used, the 3rd formation is my spoiler for the big 6 and whilst it was slow at start seems to be doing what I want in at least having me compete against the bigger clubs. In match regularly change DLP or BBM to BWM with sub when in control or when chasing and go gungho long ball direct. Best run I had so far was 14 league games unbeaten 29 goals scored and only conceded 5, so it took the players a while to adapt but I think I'm sticking with 442 for now. The biggest issue most teams will have is the illogical set up with AML/R not able to play ML/R but have am retraining them but a plus is my Ass Man thinks all my FB/WB can also play in the ML/R postition.

PI's:  FB sit marrow/run wide/close down more/cross more often/dribble less     CB take fewer risks         (CB 7goals 2ass)   (FB 0goals 12ass)

WM more direct passes/stay wider/cut inside with ball/get further forward      BBM move into channels   DLP more direct passes    IW stay wider  (wide men 18 goals, 24ass) (CM 13 goals 10ass)

No extra PI's for forwards but do swap with each other (31 goals 7ass) all brackets from 36 competitive games

As much as I want to stick to traditional roles with the 2DM formation the RGA suits what I want as close a I can get to a deep starting BBM.

Edited November 8, 2019 by toffee71

[warlock]

28 minutes ago, toffee71 said:

The biggest issue most teams will have is the illogical set up with AML/R not able to play ML/R

I wish we could nail this issue once and for all. If you look at the attributes for players in these roles, the game 'expects' players in the midfield line to be better at defending. So the players who are green in the AM line and red in the midfield line will usually have poor attributes for tackling and positioning. That's it.

In your setups I'd be looking for a WM with good vision, passing and crossing, and the IW with pace and dribbling. I played a flipped version of this with Man Utd last year and it was my most successful tactic of FM19. Martial was my IW - red for role and duty but performed brilliantly; Mata and Lingard were my WMs, red for role and duty but regularly drew ratings of 7.5 or better. They all had the attributes I wanted, and did exactly what I needed.

The real 'biggest issue' I have with a 442 is finding teams with enough decent strikers for rotation and injury cover. If you're lucky you can manage with three, but four is much better.

[OlivierL]

FM18 = strikerless tactics

FM19 = libero tactics

This season i go for a normal 4-4-2 flat. I'll post my details later. I'm going to create a lower league 4-4-2 with a plan B (attack/overload when we are behind) and plan C (control / kill the game).

I'm going for a direct style with early crosses and play for set pieces . i'm always doubting about the two MC's; I want to use a MC defend and MC Roaming playmaker. 

 

[toffee71]

21 minutes ago, warlock said:

In your setups I'd be looking for a WM with good vision, passing and crossing, and the IW with pace and dribbling. I played a flipped version of this with Man Utd last year and it was my most successful tactic of FM19. Martial was my IW - red for role and duty but performed brilliantly; Mata and Lingard were my WMs, red for role and duty but regularly drew ratings of 7.5 or better. They all had the attributes I wanted, and did exactly what I needed.

I'm using Iwobi and Gylfi for the WM, (Bernard at bit at start but SOLD) and, Richarlison and Walcott for the IW, Coleman and Sidibe have covered for part of match IW due to injury and have both done ok, but the roles seem to suit the formation and generally 7+ each match for front 6 with odd bad performance. Have also got Trincoa coming in to compete with Richarlison as Walcott getting on, Zouma to toughen defence (sold Keane to Palace for £35m after I refused him a move to City for £25m, he wouldn't accept my £40m valuation so SOLD), and Haaland up top, so for once I think I will do a second season with my first beta save see if the AI stifles me in the second season.

I do get a bit of red in of IW but only a touch.

Edited November 8, 2019 by toffee71

[OlivierL]

This are my 3 tactics - 4-4-2 to play in lower league's.

only a few Pi's t( DL en DR stay wider and run wide with ball in the flat en attack version, MC RP - move into channels , WM cut in side and narrow, TM close down and tackle, MC defend also tackle harder, dribble less, fewer risk and shorter passing. All of the have aim for targetman.

the flat version is for normal games, the attack when we are one behind, the control when we want to kill the game.  I hope i can combine this with my dna attributes / view and excel.

 

Please give me feedback

Edited November 8, 2019 by OlivierL

[toffee71]

5 minutes ago, OlivierL said:

This are my 3 tactics - 4-4-2 to play in lower league's.

only a few Pi's t( DL en DR stay wider and run wide with ball in the flat en attack version, MC RP - move into channels , WM cut in side and narrow, TM close down and tackle, MC defend also tackle harder, dribble less, fewer risk and shorter passing. All of the have aim for targetman.

the flat version is for normal games, the attack when we are one behind, the control when we want to kill the game.  I hope i can combine this with my dna attributes / view and excel.

 

Please give me feedback

Think for the starting point your not far away, for myself unless you are trying to overload the Right side I would swap the TM to Att and the PF to Sup. And all I will say for your third is good luck with that, I tried something similar which I'd done in 19, but it didn't work for me, not saying it won't for you especially as your using it for LL. There are far better people around to help fine tune the tactics, but I would say let them play and watch the matches I always watch comprehensive and find that to be the best way to fine tune the tactics to suit YOUR players, quite often it is obvious, like a stay wide midfielder disappearing inside for 10 mins, or a CM getting caught out. If you like what you've got give 'em a go and let us know how it goes. Am sure someone more helpful will be along shortly.

[OlivierL]

18 minutes ago, toffee71 said:

Think for the starting point your not far away, for myself unless you are trying to overload the Right side I would swap the TM to Att and the PF to Sup. And all I will say for your third is good luck with that, I tried something similar which I'd done in 19, but it didn't work for me, not saying it won't for you especially as your using it for LL. There are far better people around to help fine tune the tactics, but I would say let them play and watch the matches I always watch comprehensive and find that to be the best way to fine tune the tactics to suit YOUR players, quite often it is obvious, like a stay wide midfielder disappearing inside for 10 mins, or a CM getting caught out. If you like what you've got give 'em a go and let us know how it goes. Am sure someone more helpful will be along shortly.

thanks ! First i had the TM and PF swapped , but idd , i want to overload on one side. The second and third tactics are not tested yet. perhaps i should keep the AML and AMR on the ML and MR spots .. also doubting about the AML role, i'm hoping they will work idd for LLM, when i get into the higher divisions, i'll have to change a few things.

Edited November 8, 2019 by OlivierL

[toffee71]

8 minutes ago, OlivierL said:

thanks ! First i had the TM and PF swapped , but idd , i want to overload on one side. The second and third tactics are not tested yet. perhaps i should keep the AML and AMR on the ML and MR spots .. also doubting about the AML role,

I always test all my tactics preseason, I try to get around 10 games preseason, and use all 3 tactics, though can't remember if in LL you can get 10 friendlies in, but anyway, I always build 1st tactic as primary, load it in second slot couple of tweaks maybe change lines and mentality, then same again with third slot, but this one I tend to make more defensive, then use them all preseason, if you want you can try to pick appropriate opponents for the mentality, i.e use the defensive against couple of bigger teams. Also don't expect your players to adjust quickly, especially if you change what the club would normally use, it took me till December before my tactics started to really click, and it is important when your players are learning formation to persevere, train them hard, play as regular a line-up as you can, understanding the need for rotation, if your getting hammered every game the obviously you need to change something, and it can be as simple as removing a get further forward PI or add a close down more PI.

No need to drop the AML/AMR back on the third tactic YET, give it a go and see.

In LL I tend to play more 4-3-3 bit of direct hoofball. Though I won't start LL game until full release and I've done my first full Everton save.

[Spiegel]

Also been playing around with a flat 4-4-2. Hardly battering teams, but promising signs for sure!

 

[isignedupfornorealreason]

My traditional 4-4-2 has always been something like:

GK/D

FB/A

CB/D x2

WB/S

WM/S

CM/D

CM/S

WM/A

DLF/S

AF/A

 

The inspiration being the old Manchester United style 4-4-2's. 

So, the WM/S is David Beckham, and is instructed to cross more, and look for the overlapping FB.

The WM/A is the Giggs role, though I just modify it to be a deeper IF really, dribble more, cut inside, take more risks, cross less.

Balanced settings, no team instructions. 

In FM18-19 it won all there was to win at a decent team, it regularly overperforms for me if you can get the opposition to start sitting back as they never exploit the supposedly weak central midfield, and more aggressive teams get taken apart from the (usually) rapid wings and the two men hanging out up top, leading to 4 up top on the counter. 

I go without playmaker roles as I don't want the ball channelled through the middle. That's not to say the middle won't be used, it's just the flexible roles keep the ball circulating where it needs to be. If you go up against a middle-heavy team, then the ball will naturally go out wide and vice versa really. Both centre mids need to be athletic players, and one of the key link players is the DLF. Source of goals comes from the two strikers and the WM/A.

Keeper instructions are to pass from the back to either the CB or FB depending on the opposition formation. Occasionally, I will tinker with the closing down settings or the backline length, but generally there's not too much need to.

Haven't tried it in FM20 yet, I've actually switched to a 4-4-1-1 and as you say, the AMC is more or less anonymous in that at the moment!

[OlivierL]

18 minutes ago, toffee71 said:

I always test all my tactics preseason, I try to get around 10 games preseason, and use all 3 tactics, though can't remember if in LL you can get 10 friendlies in, but anyway, I always build 1st tactic as primary, load it in second slot couple of tweaks maybe change lines and mentality, then same again with third slot, but this one I tend to make more defensive, then use them all preseason, if you want you can try to pick appropriate opponents for the mentality, i.e use the defensive against couple of bigger teams. Also don't expect your players to adjust quickly, especially if you change what the club would normally use, it took me till December before my tactics started to really click, and it is important when your players are learning formation to persevere, train them hard, play as regular a line-up as you can, understanding the need for rotation, if your getting hammered every game the obviously you need to change something, and it can be as simple as removing a get further forward PI or add a close down more PI.

No need to drop the AML/AMR back on the third tactic YET, give it a go and see.

In LL I tend to play more 4-3-3 bit of direct hoofball. Though I won't start LL game until full release and I've done my first full Everton save.

Yes I tested my three tactics last year (libero 3-4-3 tactics) but this was with Bröndby . I'll always play with best eleven if fit , and i select them via my DNA excel calculator.

Thanks for the advice.

[toffee71]

20 minutes ago, Spiegel said:

Also been playing around with a flat 4-4-2. Hardly battering teams, but promising signs for sure!

 

Looking very solid.