Dullnut Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Hi, i have done some simulations :-) ... First scenario: - I have become a manager of York (club in National League North) - I did some changes in editor. So my assistant manager is Zdenek Zeman (because he has low flexibility, so he does not change formation/tactics) - I set the tactic based on Zdenek Zeman attributes - I went on holiday (set that assistant manager decides tactic and lineup) ... - The club was in EFL Championship in year 2024. This is amazing result! -------- Second scenario: - I did some changes in editor. So the manager of York is Zdenek Zeman. - I start the game and become unemployed. - I went on holiday ... - The club get promoted only to EFL League Two until 2024. Not further ... ----------- Please. Explain me. Why is Zdenek Zeman's tactic so successful when I let him coach my team from the position of ass man... But he cannot achieve the same result when he is a manager of the club? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatanera Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Luck? You've got 6 seasons worth of stuff to go back through, but were there some dodgy calls for / against in key moments? Injuries? A poor player playing out of his skin in one save and not the other? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 12 minutes ago, Dullnut said: Second scenario: - I did some changes in editor. So the manager of York is Zdenek Zeman. - I start the game and become unemployed. This stood out. In your first experiment, the matches will have been simulated in full detail. In your 2nd, they wouldn't be, unless you manually change the Detail Level. Did you do this? Apart from that, not every game save is the same. There are so many different things that can happen to make different saves, different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martplfc1 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Football isn't fixed? Any number of things could have affected results. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
allezdae Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Yeah, repeat that hundreds of times and then come back and tell us what you've found. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 I don't think I've ever seen anything that's called an experiment on here actually turn out to be worth anything. Not the fault of the OP, or anyone running these, but with the way the game is and the wealth of variables you have control of (and the thousands you don't), you'll either physically not be able to control enough to make the experiment valid, or not have anywhere near the patience to run it enough times to make the results mean anything. The only people that can draw reasonable conclusions for experiments (until there's a decent API*) are SI. They have access to the code base, and tools for running massive tests in the detail that they require. * and probably not then either Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smajliss Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Thank you. But. Common guys. When others come here and ask about not working tactic. Your answer also could be: "Football isn't fixed? Any number of things could have affected results". You can always say that ! :-) .. I am not saying that I have done study that proves something. I am asking what happened in my scenarios. It could have been a luck. But maybe, AI managers are doing something wrong. And when they are assistants they do not and thats why the results are better ... I will try repeat the "experiment" with "manually changed the Detail Level" -as Hunter pointed out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillybear Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 What is your reputation as manager? Maybe he's able to get better players when you're the manager. Maybe your team's reputation goes up higher when you're the manager, so your team's opponents are less likely to play offensive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 HUNT3R’s post is all that matters here, by resigining his manager the OP changed what match engine was used & that’s an key variable being introduced. In the second run FM will have used the quick ME which cares little for player & manager attributes as it uses a significantly simplified code that uses squad CA & rep values to decide match outcomes, the attribute distribution of the players & ability of the manager has little to no impact on that outcome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 Ya. You could "force" an AI to use the most amazing tactic. Like the best of Mr. Ls, which in the actual second to second full match engine exploits that play and visibly scores the same cheap goals over and over -- regardless of player quality. In the quick sim, it will do absolutely nought. It doesn't actually play out matches (90 minutes), so the "loopholes" don't exist. It simply churns out results and stats. Both are either way very different things. Obviously, in competitions you compete in, all matches (including AI's) are simulated in full. If they wouldn't, it wouldn'T be a level playing field. That said, I've never seen an AI manager ever promoting a club from the bottom of the league tier to the top. Which is curious. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodentofDoom Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 21 hours ago, forameuss said: I don't think I've ever seen anything that's called an experiment on here actually turn out to be worth anything. Not the fault of the OP, or anyone running these, but with the way the game is and the wealth of variables you have control of (and the thousands you don't), you'll either physically not be able to control enough to make the experiment valid, or not have anywhere near the patience to run it enough times to make the results mean anything. The only people that can draw reasonable conclusions for experiments (until there's a decent API*) are SI. They have access to the code base, and tools for running massive tests in the detail that they require. * and probably not then either There have been some pretty epic experiments over the years, that have all looked at different aspects on the game engine. I'll give you just one word for probably one of the better ones that have been done. Bandit's Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenTriangle Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 On 14/08/2018 at 14:45, Dullnut said: Hi, i have done some simulations :-) ... First scenario: - I have become a manager of York (club in National League North) - I did some changes in editor. So my assistant manager is Zdenek Zeman (because he has low flexibility, so he does not change formation/tactics) - I set the tactic based on Zdenek Zeman attributes - I went on holiday (set that assistant manager decides tactic and lineup) ... - The club was in EFL Championship in year 2024. This is amazing result! Who was designated to buy or sell players ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurf Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 On 14/08/2018 at 12:45, Dullnut said: Hi, i have done some simulations :-) ... First scenario: - I have become a manager of York (club in National League North) - I did some changes in editor. So my assistant manager is Zdenek Zeman (because he has low flexibility, so he does not change formation/tactics) - I set the tactic based on Zdenek Zeman attributes - I went on holiday (set that assistant manager decides tactic and lineup) ... - The club was in EFL Championship in year 2024. This is amazing result! -------- Second scenario: - I did some changes in editor. So the manager of York is Zdenek Zeman. - I start the game and become unemployed. - I went on holiday ... - The club get promoted only to EFL League Two until 2024. Not further ... ----------- Please. Explain me. Why is Zdenek Zeman's tactic so successful when I let him coach my team from the position of ass man... But he cannot achieve the same result when he is a manager of the club? You'd want to do 1st Scenario about 5 times and 2nd Scenario about 5 times to get the actual data. How many times have you done it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 On 15/08/2018 at 11:00, RodentofDoom said: There have been some pretty epic experiments over the years, that have all looked at different aspects on the game engine. I'll give you just one word for probably one of the better ones that have been done. Bandit's I'll give you that one, but it's not the sort of experiment I meant. That was a fun little challenge to see what happened, but I was more meaning the sort of experiments that are trying to prove something about the game. They can rarely be done in enough detail to actually prove anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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