VP. Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 After finishing second in League 1 we was obviously in for a tough battle in the Championship. Indeed that's how it played out but why it was so tough i'll never know as we are the best footballing side in the division according to the stats (in fact our passing stats are the best in all the English leagues). It's easily been the most frustrating season i've ever had in 25 years of playing the game, it was as if we just wasn't allowed to score with chance after chance being missed, where as the opposition would just score whenever they felt like it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Tongue in cheek you could ask the reverse. Worst pass completion in the league, worst possession, champions of England, how? (Leicester last season). It indeed is (too) easy to sport high possession and pass completion counts in the ME -- it's still not your job to have the best possession, that is a route to never ending frustration. There is several players obsessed about these stats in ways that contrary actually decrease the chance of scoring each time going forward due to their obsession (and making it so that on the opposing end during whatever brief spell of possession, the opponent has a much higher chance of scoring on average). There is flawed logics behind, as they infer from those stats that they would be "playing well" -- AI tactics don't give a hoot about dominating possession, quite the contrary, they gladly give it to you to lure you out on occasion. Think of United under van Gaal, except with barely half of the penetration. Some extreme, but apparently popular ways to do that would be: playing ultra narrow by default, having each wide player manually tweaked to come inside narrow, activating all the possession based TI's and PIs there are in instruction conundrums reducing the number of crosses flying in, through balls played from deeper areas, diagonal balls stretching the pitch, and more, in short taking out everything that could possibly challenge a defense. Not in a bid to hold onto a scoreline, but as a default, as it bumps the possession stats. Each interception during those spell of fruitless possession leading to weak shots (or set piece clearances) can lead to a counter that immediately may ship a higher quality shot against. And you must have had a ton of shot against, looking at those -32. Either that, or you have accidentally shredded your defense when going forward, so that every spell of possession for any opponent is bound to result into a decent jab at goal (are you utilizing manual man marking, by chance?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
summatsupeer Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Because you had the joint worst goal difference in the league. I could get a high % pass completion by passing it around all day with simple low risk passes, doesn't mean I won't make myself defensively vulnerable or create any chances. This is almost certainly down to your tactic so post the details of it as per the link below and will try and help more specifically what the issues maybe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VP. Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 14 minutes ago, summatsupeer said: Because you had the joint worst goal difference in the league. I could get a high % pass completion by passing it around all day with simple low risk passes, doesn't mean I won't make myself defensively vulnerable or create any chances. This is almost certainly down to your tactic so post the details of it as per the link below and will try and help more specifically what the issues maybe. Its this one here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
summatsupeer Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 TBH i'm surprised it has so much possession when its attacking mentality, but lets focus on defensive issues since your obviously conceding to have a negative GD. Auto duties on Attacking mentality = attack duty. So you have 6 of your 10 outfield players on attack duty plus your team starts on attacking mentality, that's far far far too many. Your central defenders basically have no one shielding them, the one defend duty in front of them is a BWM who will go running off anyway, the only other support duty player is a AP in AMC so he won't help much either. Also consider the quality of your players in league 1 compared to that arsenal team you built, are your players good enough to play very risk, higher tempo (than attack is normally) but do it with shorter passing and to feet? Do your defenders have the quality to be left to fend for themselves? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cns180784 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 omg and i thought i was defensively naive when i played my 4-4-2....6 attack duties? attacking mentality? BWM meant to protect defence? i have to say you got what you deserved you will have learned a huge lesson from this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VP. Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 On 2/17/2017 at 02:15, cns180784 said: omg and i thought i was defensively naive when i played my 4-4-2....6 attack duties? attacking mentality? BWM meant to protect defence? i have to say you got what you deserved you will have learned a huge lesson from this. This tactic gave me a 69 game unbeaten Premier League run with Arsenal and then promoted me at the first attempt out of League 1 with Southend Utd and of course i do not use the attacking mentality every game, in fact with Southend i rarely use it due to the opposition usually being stronger than ourselves, that is simply what is was set on when the screenshot was taken... My point is quite clearly how can i be playing so well, keeping the ball and creating many chances yet not scoring but conceding nearly every attempt the opposition has. I'd have no problem in losing or being relegated were the side playing terrible but we're not, we play very very well. I love how you try to make out how the tactic is completely useless even though my previous results tell a very different story. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
poobington Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Its probably the quality of your plays in comparisson to your opposition. As a newly promoted team you have to expect you will be treated like a minow and therfore subject to a lot of teams playing very attacking football against you. add to that that they probably have bette rplayers than you. I am just speculating but having a look at your squad may help to provide some answers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VP. Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 24 minutes ago, poobington said: Its probably the quality of your plays in comparisson to your opposition. As a newly promoted team you have to expect you will be treated like a minow and therfore subject to a lot of teams playing very attacking football against you. add to that that they probably have bette rplayers than you. I am just speculating but having a look at your squad may help to provide some answers Yeah i'll agree it probably does have a lot to do with the quality of my players compared to the opposition, though still very frustrating seeing your team largely play brilliantly and not get rewarded for it. Have played nearly two more seasons since i originally posted this so team has now changed a lot and looks like we could well be about to get promoted back to the Championship. I've even managed to sign a 34 year old Wayne Rooney on a free! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 If you were playing brilliantly you'd win a lot more of matches. The assessment that your side would be playing fantastic footie can be based solely on statistics, which is the point. It's super easy to have a lot of possession, in particular if you switch to "defensive", it is another to actually challenge and wrong foot opposing defenses (in particular, if they're better man by man, unlike at Arsenal). If you switch to a more cautious mentality, you won't challenge a thing with your inferior players, as your full backs would just stay back on auto duty which links the mentality to duties. Likewise, it is also arguably too easy to get a lot of shots purely in terms of quantity, though with such records, it is unlikely that you actually dominate the shot counts regularly that much (which is the more common complaint). Likewise, none of any of those stats show how easy you make it for an opposition to score, which summatsupeer also hinted at. Maybe you didn't get ripped with Arsenal just throwing bodies forward and wishing the few remaining defenders well when you were on a more aggressive mentality. But that was an established top side in their division, not a freshly promoted team. You may have a point! Namely: Neither you should go unbeaten with this for 69 matches at Arsenal. And that it's that easy to keep possession with far worse players is a game issue. However, neither should you expect similar results with completely different (and far worse in relation to the level of opposition) teams when playing like that. Taken from your thread, your were promoted with rank outsiders, which hints at the gap in player quality at play here: Quote Our odds for promotion were 450-1 at the start of the season... Unlike at Arsenal, any interception of any of your attacks which sees multiple players out of position would see far inferior defenders trying to cope with far better attackers on the counter/break. If you wanted somebody show how this would be possible in detail you could upload some matches. It is just vital to realize that's just not very balanced much on either end, and big time risky / exposing depending on which. And due to the auto duties and switches, your team looks completely different just because of those switches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigus89 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 If you've gone two seasons since last Thursday you aren't taking the time to watch the matches to see where things are going wrong. Until you do that no one here can help you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sporadicsmiles Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 5 hours ago, SortitoutsiVP said: My point is quite clearly how can i be playing so well, keeping the ball and creating many chances yet not scoring but conceding nearly every attempt the opposition has. I'd have no problem in losing or being relegated were the side playing terrible but we're not, we play very very well. Keeping the ball does not mean you are playing well. Winning games means you are playing well. You are clearly good in possession, but poor in front of goal and poor in defence. Have you looked at what sort of chances you are creating and why you are missing them? Looking at your tactic, you may not have a great deal of width if you are defensively set up with automatic fullbacks. How are you conceding goals? Counter attacks? First thing to do is work out why you are conceding more goals than usual and work out how to stop that. It could also just be that your players are not good enough for this level. Or rather other teams are better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
summatsupeer Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 8 hours ago, SortitoutsiVP said: This tactic gave me a 69 game unbeaten Premier League run with Arsenal and then promoted me at the first attempt out of League 1 with Southend Utd and of course i do not use the attacking mentality every game, in fact with Southend i rarely use it due to the opposition usually being stronger than ourselves, that is simply what is was set on when the screenshot was taken... My point is quite clearly how can i be playing so well, keeping the ball and creating many chances yet not scoring but conceding nearly every attempt the opposition has. I'd have no problem in losing or being relegated were the side playing terrible but we're not, we play very very well. I love how you try to make out how the tactic is completely useless even though my previous results tell a very different story. If you change mentality then your Automatic duties will change, which will have a massive effect on your team. Not only does the mentality change affect the teams risk taking (and various other things) but also dramatically affects those 3 players. With regards to "different teams/seasons different results", well different players play the roles+duties differently as per there attributes and PPMs. The match engine has come a long way since "super tactic" days where you could practically use any players and win. When in attacking mentality, your basically overloading defenses with numbers at the expense of support and cover, resulting in "shoot out" type games and few clean sheets. If you were using Counter, Standard or Control then it will be much more balanced with 3 defend, 4 support and 3 attack duties, on defensive it again goes very extreme with 6 defend, 1 support and 3 attack duties. No one said it was useless, but its clearly unbalanced. I would change those Auto duties so when you see fit to change the team mentality you aren't modifying there play so much, I think it will make things a bit more consistent. I would: Make the CM a support duty and probably never change him. The FBs I would either make both support duties or one attack (on side of the BWM-D) and one support. Then maybe tweak the support duty FB to a WB if you need the extra forward runs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VP. Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 On 2/20/2017 at 21:36, summatsupeer said: I would: Make the CM a support duty and probably never change him. The FBs I would either make both support duties or one attack (on side of the BWM-D) and one support. Then maybe tweak the support duty FB to a WB if you need the extra forward runs. I made the couple of changes you suggested and now back in the Championship (2nd time) we are performing much better than the first time around, certainly don't look like relegation will be an issue as we're still in the top half after the first 3rd of the season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
summatsupeer Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Good stuff. This is why I always recommend not using Auto duties. The idea that you want to change the players duty within the team whilst modifying the teams risk taking as a whole is just bad. I think it just causes confusion and more problems than its worth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sporadicsmiles Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 On 24/02/2017 at 12:27, SortitoutsiVP said: I made the couple of changes you suggested and now back in the Championship (2nd time) we are performing much better than the first time around, certainly don't look like relegation will be an issue as we're still in the top half after the first 3rd of the season. Glad to see you are doing better! I hope you get another promotion =D. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhHoopedOne Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Pretty football alone does not win football matches, Just ask Claudio Ranieri and Diego Simeone or even Mr Neil Lennon(Celtic 2 Barcelona 1) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
samuelawachie Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Or the epitome of it, Tony Pulis. For him, just one set piece will suffice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VP. Posted February 27, 2017 Author Share Posted February 27, 2017 Very happy to report Southend Utd are now in the Premier League via the play offs, first time i've ever achieved this with them also. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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