Return of the Van Gaal Years. Ajax 3-1-2-3-1.

[tejas]

"Running is for animals. You need a brain and a ball for football"

His Philosophy

-Possession: at least 52% of the ball maintained per game

-Build attacks from the back

-Manipulation of space

-Fluidity and constant movement from the attacking players

In FM

N.B.

-You might think that we are vulnerable on the flanks, but the use of the Anchor Man creates a sort of makeshift 'back 4' that is spread across the pitch

-Up front, I have implemented a 'False 9/False 10' sort of attack that is still a work in progress as I still would like them to interchange a lot more.

-A common misconception that Cleon has banged on about is that being on Rigid does not mean there is no movement from the attackers. There has been some wonderful movements between the front 4.

Has anyone implemented something similar to this? Would like to compare ideas and see if we can really go back in time and successfully implement an attacking 3-4-3. I'll be updating the thread in the next few days with season long results, but after 15 games unbeaten in the league; the formation is looking promising.

[Cleon]

The central defender (Blind) was actually a sweeper so if you are trying to recreate it as close as possible that might be a better option.

I don't agree with exploiting the middle either, the play was quite varied and a lot of the time the focus was from out wide with Overmars and George so you shouldn't be over focusing on one particular way of attacking imo as you could lose some of the intensity from the wide areas.

I'm not sure if you have read this or not but this is a fantastic bit of insight on the tactic in one particular game, the 2-0 win over A.C Milan;

http://timhi.wordpress.com/2010/09/14/ajax-1995/

[tejas]

Yeah will give that a read. I have adapted it slightly in terms of 'exploit the middle' because I just like the way that shout works in game. Is a sweepers positioning much deeper than the other two centre backs? Because I like playing with a high line so don't want attackers to flood that one sweeper.

[peleJunior]

I can never get Ajax 95 to work in FM. Maybe because it used fullbacks and a sweeper and not 3 cb's. I love the shape, Guardiola was heavily influenced by that Dutch diamond.

[peleJunior]

http://timhi.wordpress.com/2010/09/14/ajax-1995/

Capello, that heartless, prison-warden of a manager played his rigid, dogmatic 4-4-2 that he pushes down the throat of each player of every team he manages – what a cold brute. lol brilliant!

[DeathJester]

Quite a few similarities with the way Bielsa had his Chile team setup in his 3313 system. Perhaps this helped to inspire that which in turn influenced Guardiola at Barcelona.

[mydreamteam]

Quite a few similarities with the way Bielsa had his Chile team setup in his 3313 system. Perhaps this helped to inspire that which in turn influenced Guardiola at Barcelona.

I was thinking exactly the same.....I will follow this thread with interest as I am training a Bielsa/Guardiola/Ajax/Barca influenced tactic on my PSV Eindoven career save to replace my current 4-2-3-1 tactic in the future.

[Mercurio.3]

Quite a few similarities with the way Bielsa had his Chile team setup in his 3313 system. Perhaps this helped to inspire that which in turn influenced Guardiola at Barcelona.

Don't forget Cruijff's Barcelona, with Guardiola playing as DM in a 3-1-3-3 similar to Van Gaal's Ajax.

[Codeye]

Don't forget Cruijff's Barcelona, with Guardiola playing as DM in a 3-1-3-3 similar to Van Gaal's Ajax.

Do you think that this defensive shape would work in FM? 2 fullbacks, a sweeper and a half back i mean?

[RTHerringbone]

I'll be interested to hear if anyone pulls off either the narrow 3, the two with a sweeper behind, or something with a DC and two full backs.

I have had mixed results with a 3-2-2-2-1 (full backs, DC, 2 DMs, 2 central MCs, AML/R, ST).

It worked fine against single strikers, but when you need to balance 2 strikers plus any wide threat, it was very open to being exposed.

It's possible that the shape in the OP would work if the CMs were man marking wingers, but that might expose the centre.

As far as I'm concerned, it's nigh on impossible to get enough deep and early defensive contribution out wide in a formation with wide players in the AM line and above.

[peleJunior]

I'll be interested to hear if anyone pulls off either the narrow 3, the two with a sweeper behind, or something with a DC and two full backs.

I have had mixed results with a 3-2-2-2-1 (full backs, DC, 2 DMs, 2 central MCs, AML/R, ST).

It worked fine against single strikers, but when you need to balance 2 strikers plus any wide threat, it was very open to being exposed.

It's possible that the shape in the OP would work if the CMs were man marking wingers, but that might expose the centre.

As far as I'm concerned, it's nigh on impossible to get enough deep and early defensive contribution out wide in a formation with wide players in the AM line and above.

Cleon told me that it can work ( fullbacks version) when I attempted it early on in FM14's release. Didn't divulge how though!! Lol

I feel like I've been chasing a ghost ever since!!!

[legskeattch]

I think I have achieved something similar to the Barcelona tactic above - Will post later.

[legskeattch]

Both of the CMs Man Mark the Opposition wingers too

[legskeattch]

Is there anything you would change? I get caught on the counter a lot (just like the ajax team)

[HamoudiLFC]

I'm no tactical mastermind or anything - but just a question, shouldn't the Centre CB be a --> CB © or a Sweeper?

[legskeattch]

I'm no tactical mastermind or anything - but just a question, shouldn't the Centre CB be a --> CB © or a Sweeper?

Daley Blind was a sweeper in the system

[Mercurio.3]

www.barcelonafootballblog.com/10708/match-review-part-1-barcelona-50-villarreal-man-defense/

[Codeye]

Both of the CMs Man Mark the Opposition wingers too

Except for the mids mrking wide players, are you using any other individual instructions?

[djwillster]

im working on a version with full backs passing is great but tackling and headers are poor

formation

passing

headers

tackles

[mdbussen]

It's basically impossible to pull off Van Gaal's Ajax tactics in FM14 (or any previous versions) because the way it treats players in different positions is too rigid. Van Gaal's Ajax played basically a 4-3-3 in defense and a 3-4-3 in attack (when the number 4 would step into the midfield to dictate play). It's impossible in FM to get a CB to make forward runs however or position himself any further forward than his defensive line. I created a ball-playing defender and gave him the "get forward" player instruction but he never does. I remember trying to implement this in earlier versions of FM as well and unfortunately within the ME the player "knows" he is a central defender and pretty much ignores any forward run instructions. Similarly, it's impossible to get a DM to drop back into the defense when the team is not in possession (or even when the team IS in possession; the modern game often has the DC's step out wide with one DM dropping back to make a "3 man" defense in possession, like Guardiola's Barca used to do which is unachievable in the current ME).

[Luizinho]

It's basically impossible to pull off Van Gaal's Ajax tactics in FM14 (or any previous versions) because the way it treats players in different positions is too rigid. Van Gaal's Ajax played basically a 4-3-3 in defense and a 3-4-3 in attack (when the number 4 would step into the midfield to dictate play). It's impossible in FM to get a CB to make forward runs however or position himself any further forward than his defensive line. I created a ball-playing defender and gave him the "get forward" player instruction but he never does. I remember trying to implement this in earlier versions of FM as well and unfortunately within the ME the player "knows" he is a central defender and pretty much ignores any forward run instructions. Similarly, it's impossible to get a DM to drop back into the defense when the team is not in possession (or even when the team IS in possession; the modern game often has the DC's step out wide with one DM dropping back to make a "3 man" defense in possession, like Guardiola's Barca used to do which is unachievable in the current ME).

I'm pretty sure the Libero is what your looking for. He's deep and sweeps in the defensive phase but will step out of the defensive line and get involved in the play more in the attacking phase.

Also a Halfback almost perfectly mimics Busquests role in the Pep era.

[Jambo98]

Getting the DM to drop into the defence and split the DC is easy with a back 4 (which is what Pep's barca had). Standard back 4 with CWB and a HB in front will do this no problem. As luizinho mentions, this role (the HB) looks to be completely modelled on Busquets.

Getting a Libero to step into midfield, and stay there, is extremely difficult but not impossible. You need a Libero with the correct combination of PPM and attributes, and also the right set up infront of him (to make sure there is some space). What seems to happen most commonly with the Libero is he steps out into midfield initially, but then very quickly drops back once the ball is not in his immediate area.

[mdbussen]

I'm pretty sure the Libero is what your looking for. He's deep and sweeps in the defensive phase but will step out of the defensive line and get involved in the play more in the attacking phase.

Also a Halfback almost perfectly mimics Busquests role in the Pep era.

Thanks for pointing out the Halfback - that's a new role this year (I think) so I didn't even know it existed! As for the Libero, your defender has to be a sweeper in order to be assigned this role so I'm not sure it would work for the particular tactics we are tryign to create here. I'll have to try it out when I get a chance and see if it creates the movement out of the back that I'm looking for in the #4. My other concern would be how the player is positioned on defense.

[Jambo98]

Thanks for pointing out the Halfback - that's a new role this year (I think) so I didn't even know it existed! As for the Libero, your defender has to be a sweeper in order to be assigned this role so I'm not sure it would work for the particular tactics we are tryign to create here. I'll have to try it out when I get a chance and see if it creates the movement out of the back that I'm looking for in the #4. My other concern would be how the player is positioned on defense.

Blind was a sweeper in the Van Gaal system, so if you were trying to reflect his tactic fully, it would make sense to play Libero. That said, appreciating the screenshots above suggest people are going for a flat back 3, and yes its more difficult to get a defender stepping out. Might be possible with the right level of creative freedom, space and PPMs. Someone like Agger (who i think has "gets forward whenever possible" PPM) might work but its hard to get it to happen consistently i fully agree.