Thomasmc135

Really? [Morale problem]

114 posts in this topic

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1 defeat (against the perennial runners up) and 1 draw caused my players to go from 'superb' to 'poor'. I think there might be a little problem with the morale functionality. I don't see how anybody can justify that sort of a shift in morale in just 2 matches.

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1 defeat and your team turn into emo teenagers :D

Does look a tad excessive....

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1 defeat (against the perennial runners up) and 1 draw caused my players to go from 'superb' to 'poor'. I think there might be a little problem with the morale functionality. I don't see how anybody can justify that sort of a shift in morale in just 2 matches.

All down to their personalities and the team talks you give.

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All down to their personalities and the team talks you give.

Frankly not even if he told them "I hate you, I sleep with your girlfriend and I killed your pets" such a morale drop could be justified after such a long undefeated streak.

The token "complacency defeat" and the subsequent morale nosedive are an artificial (and very sloppy) way to keep the game difficult... Since AI teams can rarely compete in terms of transfers, players development and tactics, the easy way out is sabotaging the human player.

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Frankly not even if he told them "I hate you, I sleep with your girlfriend and I killed your pets" such a morale drop could be justified after such a long undefeated streak.

The token "complacency defeat" and the subsequent morale nosedive are an artificial (and very sloppy) way to keep the game difficult... Since AI teams can rarely compete in terms of transfers, players development and tactics, the easy way out is sabotaging the human player.

It was too easy to keep high morale within the squad and SI changed it in the last patch so it tends more to the centre. Was this right? Did they overdo it? Maybe a little but its better from a game POV and does mean the user needs to consider other factors more.

Having seen the threads that Thomas tends to create I think its fair to say he doesn't give much thought to personality & hidden attributes. This combined with demanding team talks followed by a defeat and a draw where his team possibly played ok then I don't see an issue with the squad morale as it is.

Its difficult to say for certain without seeing what he has done over the last few matches but there is a fair chance that his team talks are the cause of the morale as it stands.

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It was too easy to keep high morale within the squad and SI changed it in the last patch so it tends more to the centre.
It's overshot a lot more than just "the centre". The players are utterly depressed! A drop to the centre might be justified (disappointment at losing that winning streak, concern after the draw that it could be more than just a blip, etc.), but to thorough sadness?

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ANOTHER example of the ridiculous morale issue in FM. It IS FAR too temperamental. PLEASE, PLEASE sort it for the next game guys, I beg you. It's TOTALLY wrong.

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Has nobody ever worked for a godawful boss?

In my first ever job, the regional office I worked for was putting up the best numbers it had ever achieved in its history. However, due to the total incompetence of the manager, morale was at rock bottom. After months of putting up with how we were treated despite the hard work and good results, I was hauled over the coals for not doing something on a one off occasion that wasn't, under any circumstances, anything to do with my job anyway, which only existed due to the manager's ineptitude and I'd been covering because nobody else would/could. Despite getting all the bonuses the company offered, after that meeting I walked out of his office into the car park and drove home, never to return. Within three months, the rest of the sales/marketing team had also resigned. By the end of the year, the manager was fired and the office shut down.

Results are not the be all and end all of morale.

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Has nobody ever worked for a godawful boss?

In my first ever job, the regional office I worked for was putting up the best numbers it had ever achieved in its history. However, due to the total incompetence of the manager, morale was at rock bottom. After months of putting up with how we were treated despite the hard work and good results, I was hauled over the coals for not doing something on a one off occasion that wasn't, under any circumstances, anything to do with my job anyway, which only existed due to the manager's ineptitude and I'd been covering because nobody else would/could. Despite getting all the bonuses the company offered, after that meeting I walked out of his office into the car park and drove home, never to return. Within three months, the rest of the sales/marketing team had also resigned. By the end of the year, the manager was fired and the office shut down.

Results are not the be all and end all of morale.

If your boss is awful, then morale would be poor over the long-term.

In the OP's case, they have won since forever, and morale was very good beforehand. So clearly, they are happy with their boss. Then suddenly, one or two matches with poor results, morale plummets to suicidal levels.

While it might be a "shock to the system", the fact that the team eventually won again after the shock loss and draw (to what is probably a more superior side to the Moldovan league) would suggest to the team that it was just a bad day at the office - normal service resumed. So the morale should surely go back to at least "OK".

The boss hasn't changed in the OP's case - it's just one bad event - perhaps a bad quarter or a big disagreement within the team that has affected the atmosphere of the company. But the company gets back to winning ways after this bad quarter and the team, while still cautious, can start to feel that it is just a blip, so morale must return to a better, if perhaps more cautious, level.

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From the screenshots it's only been a week since the loss & drop in morale, would be interesting to see the team morale after another week as it might show the recovery of confidence that you mention.

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From the screenshots it's only been a week since the loss & drop in morale, would be interesting to see the team morale after another week as it might show the recovery of confidence that you mention.

It's been 16 days since the defeat (19th Feb - 6th Mar) so, I think, any drop in morale should have been negated by now.

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Sorry, I was looking at the fixture list & not the team page.

My point about monitoring the effects over a longer period of time still stands, if you pick up a small run of victories & use the correct approach in team/player interactions the morale should pick up as rapidly as it dropped.

It might be worth keeping a note of how you interact with your players & if things do not progress in what you think is a logical manner then upload your save file to ftp as SI have said a number of times that they want details on any perceived illogical behaviour.

Goes without saying that you'd need a save files from either before the morale hit or shortly after it happened.

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Yn8Dy.jpg

This is from an earlier position in the save (I save at different points in case I need to reference something - like now).

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That's from 6 months early, you might need a save a little closer to the 19th February fixture as there will be quite a few variables in the intervening months.

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In my experience though, low morale does not affect performance of the team that much. Form goes on pretty much the same regardless of morale. Also, a couple of good wins soon gets morale back up again.

Tbh it is not a factor that concerns me overmuch.

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Sorry, I was looking at the fixture list & not the team page.

My point about monitoring the effects over a longer period of time still stands, if you pick up a small run of victories & use the correct approach in team/player interactions the morale should pick up as rapidly as it dropped.

It might be worth keeping a note of how you interact with your players & if things do not progress in what you think is a logical manner then upload your save file to ftp as SI have said a number of times that they want details on any perceived illogical behaviour.

Goes without saying that you'd need a save files from either before the morale hit or shortly after it happened.

I think it also depends on the odds for the OP against Ajax. Assuming morale is very poor after the loss (the shock at losing the aura of invincibility; more resolute players would bounce back better):

- If the OP was expected to thrash Ajax, then I think morale should be somewhere between "Poor" and "Very Poor". The blip appears to be something bigger and the team couldn't shake it off. The subsequent 2-0 win might be a dead-cat bounce, again depending on the odds, so yes, more games is a valid ask.

- If the OP was expected to beat Ajax, then I think morale should be somewhere between "OK" and "Poor". 2-2 is not the worst result in the world, although it doesn't help. More resolute players might spin this in a positive way and see the draw as a gutsy performance after a shock loss. Less resolute players might dread the next game. I think "Poor" to "Abysmal" is too harsh, though. A loss was a complete reversal of form, but drawing after an expected win is a step in the right direction, and for the more optimistic players, the subsequent win is a vindication of the step in the right direction.

- If the OP was expected to draw against Ajax, then I think morale should shift to around "OK". A draw was expected, so the team is back on track. The subsequent win suggests that the loss was just a one-off so I think the morale should be somewhere between "OK" and "Good".

- If the OP was expected to lose or get thrashed by Ajax, then I think morale should return to "Good", then somewhere between "Good" and "Very Good" after the win. It's clear that the loss really was a one-off.

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I have the EXACT same problem with my Juventus team and also had the same problem with another save as Arsenal.

How can a team be so low on morale having won so many games? It's absolutely RIDICULOUS.

There's a major problem with morale on this game and it needs sorting out.

The strangest thing i've ever seen was Junior Hoilett's morale go from superb (at the start of the game) to abysmal at the end of the game when we won 7-1 and he got a hattrick?!

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I think it also depends on the odds for the OP against Ajax. Assuming morale is very poor after the loss (the shock at losing the aura of invincibility; more resolute players would bounce back better):

- If the OP was expected to thrash Ajax, then I think morale should be somewhere between "Poor" and "Very Poor". The blip appears to be something bigger and the team couldn't shake it off. The subsequent 2-0 win might be a dead-cat bounce, again depending on the odds, so yes, more games is a valid ask.

- If the OP was expected to beat Ajax, then I think morale should be somewhere between "OK" and "Poor". 2-2 is not the worst result in the world, although it doesn't help. More resolute players might spin this in a positive way and see the draw as a gutsy performance after a shock loss. Less resolute players might dread the next game. I think "Poor" to "Abysmal" is too harsh, though. A loss was a complete reversal of form, but drawing after an expected win is a step in the right direction, and for the more optimistic players, the subsequent win is a vindication of the step in the right direction.

- If the OP was expected to draw against Ajax, then I think morale should shift to around "OK". A draw was expected, so the team is back on track. The subsequent win suggests that the loss was just a one-off so I think the morale should be somewhere between "OK" and "Good".

- If the OP was expected to lose or get thrashed by Ajax, then I think morale should return to "Good", then somewhere between "Good" and "Very Good" after the win. It's clear that the loss really was a one-off.

It's not just the expected result that is a factor but also how the match unfolded, if he took a 2-0 lead only to see Ajax fight back to grab a late draw then that too should have a negative effect.

If it was a close game where the result could have gone either way against a strong Ajax side then you're looking at a good chance to boost morale by focusing on the positives in the post match teamtalk & the same goes for a fightback from a 2 goal deficit, if it's a comparatively weak Ajax side then a 2-2 draw is a bad result in the context of the low morale after the last league game.

Morale above all other areas is relative & has a number of influencing factors, whether FM goes this deep is another question.

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That's from 6 months early, you might need a save a little closer to the 19th February fixture as there will be quite a few variables in the intervening months.

What, in their personality?

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I was referring to every match you've been involved in, each interaction with your squad either on a group or individual basis, your interactions with the media & of course player acquisitions.

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I was referring to every match you've been involved in, each interaction with your squad either on a group or individual basis, your interactions with the media & of course player acquisitions.

I haven't bought anyone since, but the purpose of the screenshot was to show the squad's personality.

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Still playing Fm11, haven't had any problems with morale personally.

I manage a huge squad of players and am able to keep them in line. Are you going to give everyone a new contract to get them back in a good mood? :)

So what did you tell your players pre-game, half time and post match, for those two results? Seems like either they are sensitive, or they didn't like what you had to say, LOL.

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If your boss is awful, then morale would be poor over the long-term.

In the OP's case, they have won since forever, and morale was very good beforehand. So clearly, they are happy with their boss. Then suddenly, one or two matches with poor results, morale plummets to suicidal levels.

While it might be a "shock to the system", the fact that the team eventually won again after the shock loss and draw (to what is probably a more superior side to the Moldovan league) would suggest to the team that it was just a bad day at the office - normal service resumed. So the morale should surely go back to at least "OK".

The boss hasn't changed in the OP's case - it's just one bad event - perhaps a bad quarter or a big disagreement within the team that has affected the atmosphere of the company. But the company gets back to winning ways after this bad quarter and the team, while still cautious, can start to feel that it is just a blip, so morale must return to a better, if perhaps more cautious, level.

The problem in FM is that the level of communication between boss and players isn't deep enough. As long as the manager praises wins and the team is winning, morale is high. Consequently, if the manager cocks up his reaction when things aren't hunky dory, morale needs to drop sharply. That is the outcome of poor man management in a high performing team. It can be compensated for by a return to winning ways, which might not necessarily be the case in the real world.

My real issue with the OP is it is almost something he's done to cause the extensive morale drop, not a hard coded reaction to a sudden loss.

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The problem in FM is that the level of communication between boss and players isn't deep enough. As long as the manager praises wins and the team is winning, morale is high. Consequently, if the manager cocks up his reaction when things aren't hunky dory, morale needs to drop sharply. That is the outcome of poor man management in a high performing team. It can be compensated for by a return to winning ways, which might not necessarily be the case in the real world.
Did you not see the win after the draw against Ajax?

I'm not against morale dropping, although I think Superb to Suicidal is too harsh after a win.

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Which is why wwfan suggests that there has to be another influence besides the defeat to cause the drop in morale & I have to agree with him.

For the last decade my team has dominated the domestic scene but I am yet to go through an entire season unbeaten & to date I have not suffered any instant drop in team morale following a defeat. I can only put this down to the fact that I attend almost every press conference & regularly chat with my players about their recent performances.

Obviously you are going to argue differently even though you've not experienced the current morale system.

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I'd've thought that the team would be more relieved than anything to get back to winning ways. Maybe a little sour at a possible bad team-talk - but they've won!

If it was a particularly bad team-talk, wouldn't there be "Slt" icons beside their names, anyway?

It doesn't make sense if reconciled to reality.

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That only tends to comes up after prolonged use of aggressive teamtalks, after more than 1500 matches on FM I'm more or less happy with the current system & if anything I feel that low morale or player confidence has too little impact on match performance.

I'd've??? That's a horrible contraction. :D

Edit: Just had another look at the OP's squad page & it looks like his team is very reliant on the performance of 4 players, he uses the same starting 11 in every match & there is a hint that he's using the corner exploit.

The lack of squad rotation & the over-reliance on just a few players is imo a prime situation for a defeat to have an enhanced negative impact on morale, moving this to reality even before the defeat he should have had a number of disgruntled players on his books & team confidence built on the shoulders of a small group can be very fragile.

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That only tends to comes up after prolonged use of aggressive teamtalks, after more than 1500 matches on FM I'm more or less happy with the current system & if anything I feel that low morale or player confidence has too little impact on match performance.

I'd've??? That's a horrible contraction. :D

Edit: Just had another look at the OP's squad page & it looks like his team is very reliant on the performance of 4 players, he uses the same starting 11 in every match & there is a hint that he's using the corner exploit.

The lack of squad rotation & the over-reliance on just a few players is imo a prime situation for a defeat to have an enhanced negative impact on morale, moving this to reality even before the defeat he should have had a number of disgruntled players on his books & team confidence built on the shoulders of a small group can be very fragile.

I don't get the last bit. Why would a squad with a few niche players be that more more susceptible to morale drops than a squad with simply lots of equally-good players? It might be safer as performances not dependent on the form of their top players, but how does that affect the morale of the whole squad in a big way?

Yes, there will be a few disgruntled players due to the lack of rotation but those shouldn't really poison the squad to the extent shown above. After all, every team has unhappy players because not everyone can play.

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I don't get the last bit. Why would a squad with a few niche players be that more more susceptible to morale drops than a squad with simply lots of equally-good players? It might be safer as performances not dependent on the form of their top players, but how does that affect the morale of the whole squad in a big way?

Yes, there will be a few disgruntled players due to the lack of rotation but those shouldn't really poison the squad to the extent shown above. After all, every team has unhappy players because not everyone can play.

He's only using 11 though, the rest are not getting a look in which from my perspective increases the chances of having a fractious dressing room.

As for the total reliance on 4 players this is a problem for me as the rest are not gaining confidence in their own abilities, they are simply being carried along by the other 4.

The OP is complaining about a perceived unrealistic turn of events whereas I would suggest that the OP could be using unrealistic, maybe exploitative methods to achieve his results which in turn could cause unexpected behaviour.

All this is however pure speculation as neither of us have access to the OP's save file or the ability to accurately monitor what the game is doing, I can see what happens in my game & how I deal with team morale issues, you are restricted to seeing occasional screen images & the opinion of a disgruntled third party.

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He's only using 11 though, the rest are not getting a look in which from my perspective increases the chances of having a fractious dressing room.

The OP mentioned that the morale of his squad was "Superb". I'm guessing this means that it's "Superb" on "average", which suggests there are no major fractions dressing room, if perhaps a few unhappy players (i.e. di María).

As for the total reliance on 4 players this is a problem for me as the rest are not gaining confidence in their own abilities, they are simply being carried along by the other 4.

I don't see that as an issue. Manchester United weren't miserable when Ronaldo was carrying the club through bad results. Arsenal aren't miserable even though van Persie is a one-man team.

Players can be confident in their own abilities and still accept that there are some players that are simply better than them. As long as they are contributing to the team well and the team is getting the required results, they should be happy.

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The problem in FM is that the level of communication between boss and players isn't deep enough. As long as the manager praises wins and the team is winning, morale is high. Consequently, if the manager cocks up his reaction when things aren't hunky dory, morale needs to drop sharply. That is the outcome of poor man management in a high performing team. It can be compensated for by a return to winning ways, which might not necessarily be the case in the real world.

My real issue with the OP is it is almost something he's done to cause the extensive morale drop, not a hard coded reaction to a sudden loss.

I didn't do anything to cause this. I leave the team talks and the press conferences to my AM.

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Leaving press interaction & teamtalks to your assman is fraught with danger, had you dealt with these yourself you probably would have kept control of your team.

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He's only using 11 though, the rest are not getting a look in which from my perspective increases the chances of having a fractious dressing room.

As for the total reliance on 4 players this is a problem for me as the rest are not gaining confidence in their own abilities, they are simply being carried along by the other 4.

The OP is complaining about a perceived unrealistic turn of events whereas I would suggest that the OP could be using unrealistic, maybe exploitative methods to achieve his results which in turn could cause unexpected behaviour.

All this is however pure speculation as neither of us have access to the OP's save file or the ability to accurately monitor what the game is doing, I can see what happens in my game & how I deal with team morale issues, you are restricted to seeing occasional screen images & the opinion of a disgruntled third party.

I have a few gripes with this response.

Firstly, how can you accuse me of 'relying' on 4 players? As the average ratings patently show, I have a squad of players who are all performing exceptionally well. Yes, my strikers are the players with the most goals, but you expect that in any decent team. What about my two midfielders who are in world-class form, but don't have many goals? What about my goalkeeper who doesn't concede many? You can't just say that I'm reliant upon 4 players when it's clear that the squad is performing as a whole. My bench is mainly made up of younger players who are learning their trade.

Secondly, I don't appreciate you accusing me of "exploiting" the game? How do teams win in real life? By exploiting their opponents weaknesses. Why am I not allowed to use a corner routine that I used before anyone raised the issue? I'm not in the business of handicapping myself, so don't criticise me for using something that is in the game. Next, you'll be belittling my achievements because I dared to sign somebody.

Thirdly, this is the Moldovan league. The teams are not great, so obviously a human-controlled team will win the majority of matches. My team is ranked 4 stars, whilst the next highest is 2. Is that my fault? No. My team started off at a similar level to the rest, but I've progressed like any human-controlled team would.

So, please, don't make unsubstantiated statements about how I'm playing the game. The fact is, their morale dropped after two defeats. I didn't tell them that their pets would be murdered, I didn't threaten to sell them and my AM didn't upset them with any team talks.

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Leaving press interaction & teamtalks to your assman is fraught with danger, had you dealt with these yourself you probably would have kept control of your team.

Right, because for the other 9 months that they were happy, I wasn't doing the same things.

Are you so intent in denying that a problem exists that you're willing to claim everything else? Let me guess, I clicked the mouse incorrectly? I only waited 3 seconds, instead of 4, before I clicked 'confirm team'?

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If you think that what happened in your game is illogical then upload your save file to ftp for the guys at SI to have a look.

If you don't then STF up.

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I have a few gripes with this response.

Firstly, how can you accuse me of 'relying' on 4 players? As the average ratings patently show, I have a squad of players who are all performing exceptionally well. Yes, my strikers are the players with the most goals, but you expect that in any decent team. What about my two midfielders who are in world-class form, but don't have many goals? What about my goalkeeper who doesn't concede many? You can't just say that I'm reliant upon 4 players when it's clear that the squad is performing as a whole. My bench is mainly made up of younger players who are learning their trade.

Secondly, I don't appreciate you accusing me of "exploiting" the game? How do teams win in real life? By exploiting their opponents weaknesses. Why am I not allowed to use a corner routine that I used before anyone raised the issue? I'm not in the business of handicapping myself, so don't criticise me for using something that is in the game. Next, you'll be belittling my achievements because I dared to sign somebody.

Thirdly, this is the Moldovan league. The teams are not great, so obviously a human-controlled team will win the majority of matches. My team is ranked 4 stars, whilst the next highest is 2. Is that my fault? No. My team started off at a similar level to the rest, but I've progressed like any human-controlled team would.

So, please, don't make unsubstantiated statements about how I'm playing the game. The fact is, their morale dropped after two defeats. I didn't tell them that their pets would be murdered, I didn't threaten to sell them and my AM didn't upset them with any team talks.

I have to disagree with Barside in terms of the first point - For your formation I think you have a fair spread around your team and don't really look heavily reliant on a narrow band of players.

However 23 goals between your two DCs certainly looks iffy despite how dominant you are in the division. What have other teams scored from FKs/corners?

By all means play the game how you want but don't expect others to agree with your style of play.

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If you think that what happened in your game is illogical then upload your save file to ftp for the guys at SI to have a look.

If you don't then STF up.

How about you close the thread if you don't like what is being said? I'm allowed to discuss what I perceive to be an error.

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I actually give up as far as morale goes. It's an absolute ****ing shambles.

Once again, for no reason at all, the entire squad's morale is on the floor from 1 defeat in 11 games (won the other 10).

I'm absolutely sick to death of seeing players with abysmal morale and "playing without confidence" HOW?! YOU ARE TOP OF LEAGUE AND IN AMAZING FORM!!!

Juventus-1.jpg

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I didn't do anything to cause this. I leave the team talks and the press conferences to my AM.

Therein lies the rub, my friend.

If you don't take responsibility for managing morale and the media, you can't complain when things go pear shaped. As with almost every other complaint you read about on these forums, it is down to something you are doing. In 900+ games in my current save, I haven't once had the low levels of morale you saw, even during a desperate relegation battle. It is not difficult to keep morale above average if you pay attention to it, irrelevant to results.

I suspect your AM gave a series of very poor team / media communications, which resulted in morale plunging, as the team felt it was being unnecessarily pressured or unfairly punished prior to / after one bad result. They were then still peeved after winning a match, again likely to be down to the poor response of your AM. Over time, this won't matter, as morale will rise simply down to a winning streak. However, in the short-term, bad communicative practice can wreck confidence and happiness.

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Therein lies the rub, my friend.

If you don't take responsibility for managing morale and the media, you can't complain when things go pear shaped. As with almost every other complaint you read about on these forums, it is down to something you are doing. In 900+ games in my current save, I haven't once had the low levels of morale you saw, even during a desperate relegation battle. It is not difficult to keep morale above average if you pay attention to it, irrelevant to results.

I suspect your AM gave a series of very poor team / media communications, which resulted in morale plunging, as the team felt it was being unnecessarily pressured or unfairly punished prior to / after one bad result. They were then still peeved after winning a match, again likely to be down to the poor response of your AM. Over time, this won't matter, as morale will rise simply down to a winning streak. However, in the short-term, bad communicative practice can wreck confidence and happiness.

The AM didn't say anything that upset anybody. The only reason the morale dropped was because of the unexpected defeat and draw.

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The OP is complaining about a perceived unrealistic turn of events whereas I would suggest that the OP could be using unrealistic, maybe exploitative methods to achieve his results which in turn could cause unexpected behaviour. [/Quote]

These 'exploits' of mine have been very effective (!)

7lIZN.jpg

QNzQ1.jpg

When you consider that my players are far superior to that of other teams, I don't score many. If anything, I'm restoring a level playing field.

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The AM didn't say anything that upset anybody. The only reason the morale dropped was because of the unexpected defeat and draw.

Nonsense. If I can stop it from dropping like that, then so can you. Stop blaming the game and learn how to play it.

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I actually give up as far as morale goes. It's an absolute ****ing shambles.

Once again, for no reason at all, the entire squad's morale is on the floor from 1 defeat in 11 games (won the other 10).

I'm absolutely sick to death of seeing players with abysmal morale and "playing without confidence" HOW?! YOU ARE TOP OF LEAGUE AND IN AMAZING FORM!!!

Juventus-1.jpg

I also get these reactions in the dressing room just after à loss, just like everone can be on superb in the same room just after à great win away from home and that is what is expected Of them. Are you saying that are still on abysmal morale the next day becaue mine are not as for me,these reactions are just in the heat Of the moment.

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Whilst I appreciate what wwfan and barside are saying and understand that the OP is coming across as a whiner, it is clear that the morale model has been tweaked too far. Cougar is one of the biggest apologists for the game going (and is usually very eloquent in being so) but even he admits in his first post here that it's probably been tweaked too far. Undoubtedly there are things the manager can do to mitigate these scenarios but a lot of the time morale will just take a rapid swing towards bad and it can become very difficult to rescue the situation.

99% of the threads started in this forum about the various conspiracy theories are absolute nonsense, but it does no one any good to deny that there is a problem with morale. Hopefully it's one that SI will address for FM13.

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I also get these reactions in the dressing room just after à loss, just like everone can be on superb in the same room just after à great win away from home and that is what is expected Of them. Are you saying that are still on abysmal morale the next day becaue mine are not as for me,these reactions are just in the heat Of the moment.

The thing is, although we have lost the game, we haven't lost the tie. It's 3-3 going into extra time. Nothing that went on during this game warranted that huge reduction in morale, ridiculous.

To answer your other question, no the morale drop is usually not as extreme after exiting the dressing room, but what i'm pissed off about is how the morale in the team is still low after 1 defeat in 11 games, it just doesn't fly with me and is completely unrealistic.

I could understand that team reaction in the dressing room if we were at the bottom of the league with no wins in 11 but this is just daft.

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Whilst I appreciate what wwfan and barside are saying and understand that the OP is coming across as a whiner, it is clear that the morale model has been tweaked too far. Cougar is one of the biggest apologists for the game going (and is usually very eloquent in being so) but even he admits in his first post here that it's probably been tweaked too far. Undoubtedly there are things the manager can do to mitigate these scenarios but a lot of the time morale will just take a rapid swing towards bad and it can become very difficult to rescue the situation.

99% of the threads started in this forum about the various conspiracy theories are absolute nonsense, but it does no one any good to deny that there is a problem with morale. Hopefully it's one that SI will address for FM13.

Just to be clear I didn't say that morale has or hasn't been tweaked too far, I just posed the question that maybe it has been. Personally I haven't played anywhere near enough of FM12 to draw any conclusions myself.

But from reading the forums I do know that SI wanted morale to be more volatile and harder to keep at high levels for long periods. I also know from talking to friends (experienced FM players) that despite the changes morale isn't causing them any real concerns.

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The thing is, although we have lost the game, we haven't lost the tie. It's 3-3 going into extra time. Nothing that went on during this game warranted that huge reduction in morale, ridiculous.

To answer your other question, no the morale drop is usually not as extreme after exiting the dressing room, but what i'm pissed off about is how the morale in the team is still low after 1 defeat in 11 games, it just doesn't fly with me and is completely unrealistic.

I could understand that team reaction in the dressing room if we were at the bottom of the league with no wins in 11 but this is just daft.

How much expectation did the media / team talks put on the team prior to the match? If the team were put under intensive pressure to win comfortably or were told they merely needed to turn up, a loss could result in widespread morale loss. Everything is contextual. Nothing is isolated.

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I don't think that the morale system has been tweaked too far in general. Mostly, it functions just alright. But watch the date of that Juventus-Parma match; it's the 1st of April. He is likely to be in the last 10 league matches of the season, and when you go into that period things like this happens frequently.

Too frequently and too severly in my opinion.

There is no doubt in my mind that these incredible swings in morale and sudden loss of confidence, extreme nervousness and/or complacency, are hard-coded to begin in the 28th league match. 27th you're fine, 28th and all hell breaks loose.

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How much expectation did the media / team talks put on the team prior to the match? If the team were put under intensive pressure to win comfortably or were told they merely needed to turn up, a loss could result in widespread morale loss. Everything is contextual. Nothing is isolated.

From what I can remember, none. It's the Italian Cup, the board basically cast off the competition as Mickey Mouse. I told the team passionately to do this for the fans, all responded well, morale was sky high.

Once again, we battered the opposition, yet struggled to score. It gets to half time and the team's morale is on the floor, no idea why, the game is still there for the taking. I didn't do any press conferences.

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