FMS Community Thread / Episode V / Sponsored By Fernando Torres

[BenArsenal]

That's because we have about 20 users.

OTF should win that award hands down.

You know what would be good? A forum-against-forum contest of some sort. Like the England against Germany thing on Top Gear a few years ago.

There's a suggestion.

Nominally Terk would be good to lead us. But since he's stepped down we'll just have to do with the Yankee and the Gerodie.

Chaps, the pride of FMS lies with you.

(And...100th post in the new thread. It's the same 3 of us at the top again.)

[tenthreeleader]

I think the Sexy Crew should lead the way. I'll provide moral support and sarcasm.

[The-Perfect-Fm'er!]

After watching MOTD2 Villas performance was appalling and deserved all they got from that match. Johnny Wilkinson would have been proud of that penalty by Carew. Their was such a lack of desire in the whole team and if that is supposed to be a top six team as TPF says then it's more like the top 6 favorites to get relegated. And TPF it really is a disservice to Newcastle. That is a premier league team no matter if they got promoted last season and that is the same mistake Wigan made last week. I'd almost call it arrogance thinking you are a bigger club than Newcastle just because you finished in the top 6 for the last 3 years. In my view you overachieved with O'Neill all those years as Young is the only player in that team that I rate. It also helps that Man City didn't have that money 3 years ago, Spurs having that very bad start 2 years ago and Liverpool imploding last season not to mention the injuries that Everton get.

Arrogance saying we are a bigger club than Newcastle?

What because they have a club that doesn't have too great competition for fanbase and are in a place that is a typical football area to attract fans.

This is the exact sort of attitude from Newcastle fans which makes people laugh at them in the first place. It isn't arrogance, I know which teams are bigger teams than Villa and I know which aren't. Currently, the big 4, Tottenham and Man City are all bigger clubs than Aston Villa, while Everton, we are on a par. Newcastle's history doesn't match ours and nor does recent seasons. We have finished higher than in the England placings in the last 4 years. Our squad, our team is better. Okay, we got hammered, fair enough but that is on the day stuff, we also beat Liverpool, Man United, Chelsea last year, it doesn't make us better than them overall.

Just because they have beat us once, doesn't somehow mean they are better or bigger than us.

Did we over achieve under O'Neill? partially, I'd say so in the 07/08 season, we had a pretty okay team, nothing special but finished 6th, since then, not really. We invested a lot of money, £100 million in his 4 years so around 6th place is a pretty realistic finishing point.

Also, Man City didn't have any money 3 years ago?

07/08......Man City spent about £50 million under Sven on the likes of Petrov, Elano, etc....so to say they didn't have money is quite far off.

It really isn't a dis-service to Newcastle, we LOST 6-0. NOT 1-0. We lost 7-1 at Chelsea last year and it was a joke of a performance, we lost 6-0 to Newcastle and it's a joke of a performance. We have a better team than them and we got completly out battled and out played on the day, in the second half especially. I'm sorry but just because we have a Newcastle supporter on this forum and they have a strong fanbase doesn't somehow mean they are now mr.big club again. If we lost to Everton downwards really, Blackburn, Bolton, Newcastle, Sunderland, it doesn't matter. We shouldn't be losing 6-0 to ANY TEAM in the league, let alone someone who as a team should be targetting to get points off.

I don't think Newcastle are some bad team, but Salkster, are you telling me...if Liverpool lost this season to let's say to West Ham, Stoke City or Wolves say 6-0.....you, Brian, Terk wouldn't be thinking WTF, how did we lose to them 6-0!??! That's not being disrespectful, it's more so criticising your own team.

Newcastle United to do not have a better team than Aston Villa. That is obvious. So to lose 6-0, such a big margain, is a joke for this football club.

Ps. That is a response to a debate, those points are there to debated!

[The-Perfect-Fm'er!]

Also, this is no excuse but we were missing a couple absolutely vital players.

Firstly, Agbonlahor, absolutely key to the way Villa play away from home, upfront on his own, when he has played this role, we've never lost away from home, it's about 16 games the record stands at, games like Arsenal away, Liverpool away, Everton away, United at home, Arsenal at home x2.....so we're not talking some easy games either. He's a massive player for us and better than John Carew who may I add, is ****.

Also, James Collins, a fine centre back and also at least would have kept Carroll alot more quietier than Clark did (only his 3rd Premiership appearance)....Collins is fantastic in the air and a proper centre back, Carroll played great but obviously someone of Collins ability would of competed fair better.

Ireland's first game too and replacing Milner was always going to be tough and well he played deeper instead of behind a striker for someone reason, I'd guess because Carew's lack of pace, they need Young close by him to provide a threat in behind too.

From the Newcastle team, if I was picking a full strength team, I'd take Enrique, that's probably about it, I think generally, Villa are stronger, if Barton is playing well, he is a good player and would fit next to Petrov but apart from that, over the course of the season as long as Villa get a manager of sufficient calibre aka not Bob Bradley, someone more like Martin Jol, we'll be around the top 8, Newcastle around 12th-15th I think.

[The-Perfect-Fm'er!]

Mascherano isn't playing tonight?

Is he still injured or on the move or refusing to play???

[SCIAG]

Supposed to have a loan to Barcelona nearing completion.

Am I the only one who thinks Barcelona's players should just shut up? They took it in turns to tap up Fabregas earlier in the summer, and now Messi has been doing the same with Mascherano.

[ScottleeSV]

No you're not. Those Spanish clubs drive me insane when they start courting players.

[chesterfan2]

You boys with your Newcastle and your Aston Villa, just wait until I bring the mighty Chester to the table...............

Deluded I recognise I may well be, but the mighty pheonix that is Chester FC will play it's first ever competitive match, away at Warrington Town tomorrow night. And I can't get there to see it, so I'm going to get drunk. Anyone got a problem with that ?

[The-Perfect-Fm'er!]

Milner on the wing. Why spend so much money to then put a player in a position where is decent at, that doesn't sound bad but when you spend really around £25 million for a player, at least play him where he's best!! (central)

[BenArsenal]

OK, something to lighten the tension a bit....

had me in stitches.

Time to use that software to see what this forum can come up with, methinks.

[BenArsenal]

And here's why Masch isn't playing. He's on strike apparantly.

[Dalbeider]

And here's why Masch isn't playing. He's on strike apparantly.

Don't want him then.

[salkster2102]

Arrogance saying we are a bigger club than Newcastle?

What because they have a club that doesn't have too great competition for fanbase and are in a place that is a typical football area to attract fans.

Don't try to put words into my mouth this is what you said: "Hey United fans.........

At least you didn't lose 6-0 to Newcastle. NEWCASTLE FFS." So yeh I think that's arrogance. Just because you finished in the top 6 for the past 3 years doesn't mean you are going to beat the teams that get promoted.

Newcastle's history doesn't match ours and nor does recent seasons. We have finished higher than in the England placings in the last 4 years. Our squad' date=' our team is better.[/quote']

Not by much. So you won a few more league titles and a few more league cups but that was how long ago? Newcastle have at least had a period of time in the Uefa Cup and the Champions league of recent history. From 96 to 07 in fact. And if your squad is better it's only by a bit. I'd rate a midfield of Barton and guthrie/ Smith better than Reo-Coker and Petrov. And Andy Carrol is a much brighter prospect than Agbonlahor.

Also, Man City didn't have any money 3 years ago?

07/08......Man City spent about £50 million under Sven on the likes of Petrov, Elano, etc....so to say they didn't have money is quite far off.

Ok so they weren't moneybags then but they was improving on a team that had finished what 15th the season before?

It really isn't a dis-service to Newcastle, we LOST 6-0. NOT 1-0. We lost 7-1 at Chelsea last year and it was a joke of a performance, we lost 6-0 to Newcastle and it's a joke of a performance. We have a better team than them and we got completly out battled and out played on the day, in the second half especially. I'm sorry but just because we have a Newcastle supporter on this forum and they have a strong fanbase doesn't somehow mean they are now mr.big club again.

If it's not dis-service then its disrespect at the very least. And that last point I have no idea what your talking about.

I don't think Newcastle are some bad team, but Salkster, are you telling me...if Liverpool lost this season to let's say to West Ham, Stoke City or Wolves say 6-0.....you, Brian, Terk wouldn't be thinking WTF, how did we lose to them 6-0!??! That's not being disrespectful, it's more so criticising your own team.

No I wouldn't. I'd say we were sh*t and they was brilliant and congratulate them on a fine performance. Sometimes you just have to praise the opposite team instead of going "Newcastle. NEWCASTLE FFS"

[stoehrst]

I liken NUFC to the Boston Red Sox for my own Americanized understanding of things. The Red Sox hadn't won a title since 1918 (and there are no cup competitions in baseball), and had actually come comically close to it on a number of occasions. They'd also been embarrassingly bad at times, too. But never, at any point in their history, did anyone deny that the Boston Red Sox were one of the five or ten biggest teams in MLB. Because of richness of history (not always pertaining to success) and the incredible size and devotion of their fanbase despite literally decades of heartache. Yes, the Sox' sporting jurisdiction covers (technically) six states in one of the most densely-populated areas in America with no baseball competition, but that doesn't make it any less true.

NUFC are that sleeping giant sort of club, which is why you'll always hear Geordies talk about them being a massive club. And like Yankees' fans who laughed it off when the Red Sox were at rock bottom, English fans giggle and brush the Magpies aside like none of it matters. It does. Villa are the more successful club historically and certainly are a big English club (almost certainly top 10) but trust me, you can't just look at all that and say flat-out they're bigger than Newcastle. Part of the reason some clubs are called "sleeping giants" is because everyone knows they're so much bigger than they appear at the moment. I'd contend (w/out numbers to back it up) that NUFC has a wider global presence than Villa as well. I only guess at that because I read something about two years ago that illustrated American and Global presence of Premiership clubs and was pretty surprised to see Newcastle like 5th on the list behind Man U, Liverpool, and I think Chelski and the Gooners. That may have changed, but if I had to pick a club that superseded Newcastle I can tell you that Villa wouldn't be that club.

You're right though, TPF, you guys had no right losing to us 6:0. If I were you I'd be disappointed but not necessarily angry to LOSE to us at SJP, but I'd be livid and embarrassed about losing that badly.

EDIT: The Sox broke their duck after 86 years in 2004, and won again in 2007. Nowadays when the Sox travel their fans routinely outdraw home fans in ballparks all over the country, and Fenway Park has the longest-running sellout streak in sports. Even before 2004, though, the USA was chock full of Red Sox fans making up "Red Sox Nation," and the success wasn't a necessary element to them being a big team. It was obvious from the start. Just adding some clarification to why I made it seem like the Sox' luckless run had ended - in fact it has.

[Brian W]

TBH, I agree with TPF...losing 6-0 to a team that's around your ability is a disgrace, and I think most people would be surprised, certainly two weeks ago, if Newcastle finished above Villa. That result for Villa was probably the most embarrassing result in the Premier League since probably Man City's 8-1 defeat to Boro, and even that has the mitigating circumstances of being a meaningless final day encounter.

Barcelona: what exactly do you want with a £12m midfielder anyway? Why don't you go away and come back when you've got real?

Liverpool-City: This is grim...we're massively second best here

[The-Perfect-Fm'er!]

Salkster, I think your first reply just summed up that you didn't really get my original point.

I didn't say we should always be beat these clubs. Of course we should be targetting wins but but never once said I am angry because we lost the match. The manner of the display. I've said, the first half, weren't that bad, I could accept that we were losing 3-0 without playing badly which sounds weird but we weren't. The second half however was an absolute joke and as Brian and Stoehrst said, it's emberassing, it's not the fact we lost, it's the way we lost. As i've said, anyone really from Everton down, heck probbly even Spurs and Liverpool too, I'd of had the EXACT same reaction, because although clubs might be better or even or worse, we should never be losing 6-0. Salkster, again, for me, Villa losing to Newcastle 6-0 is like Newcastle losing to like Wigan 6-0 and If that happened, I think Gav's reaction would be pretty similar.

Anyway....

[The-Perfect-Fm'er!]

MILNER TO BARRY.

I sware that goal just looked at me in the face and went ' **** YOU JOE, **** YOU'

[gavrenwick]

Salkster' date=' I think your first reply just summed up that you didn't really get my original point.

I didn't say we should always be beat these clubs. Of course we should be targetting wins but but never once said I am angry because we lost the match. The manner of the display. I've said, the first half, weren't that bad, I could accept that we were losing 3-0 without playing badly which sounds weird but we weren't. The second half however was an absolute joke and as Brian and Stoehrst said, it's emberassing, it's not the fact we lost, it's the way we lost. As i've said, anyone really from Everton down, heck probbly even Spurs and Liverpool too, I'd of had the EXACT same reaction, because although clubs might be better or even or worse, we should never be losing 6-0. Salkster, again, for me, Villa losing to Newcastle 6-0 is like Newcastle losing to like Wigan 6-0 and If that happened, I think Gav's reaction would be pretty similar.

Anyway....[/quote']

A very valid point, TPF. No team will ever look kindly at a 6-0 thumping from a team anywhere out of the top four. It is embarrasing. But my god, did I enjoy yesterday.

I hope Villa bounce back, and don't prove me right of being a team full of players who were seemingly reliant on O'Neill. Though it has happened plenty.

[Terk]

I'm not going to dwell on it because, frankly, I'm a little depressed after watching that, but I think tonight was all the proof you need that 4-4-2 is now obsolete as an attacking tactic at the top level of the game. Sure it works as a defensive tactic, if you keep your two banks of four close together and aim to frustrate the opposition, but we were never going to do that, we were going to at least try and win the game.

We gave up the centre of the pitch so easily to City, they had so much space in between our midfield and defence, it would have been embarrassing for them to beat us by any less than they did. Johnson, Milner and Barry all played well, but I think in general we made City look a lot better than they are. I think Roy has to take most of the blame for tonight, not only for picking a formation that was never going to work, but for then failing to change thinks when we were being so easily outplayed and outnumbered. However, a lot of the players didn't help the cause by looking disinterested. Poor show all round and I shall be drinking plenty tonight to drown my sorrows.

[The-Perfect-Fm'er!]

A very valid point, TPF. No team will ever look kindly at a 6-0 thumping from a team anywhere out of the top four. It is embarrasing. But my god, did I enjoy yesterday.

I hope Villa bounce back, and don't prove me right of being a team full of players who were seemingly reliant on O'Neill. Though it has happened plenty.

I'm sure you did. I cried. (didn't really but probably could of)

It really does depend on who we get in, simple as that, we have good players, no doubt, a decent manager will keep us in the top 8. Select the wrong guy and who knows what will happen. Good start for Newcastle anyway, don't really have any doubts they will stay up.

[chesterfan2]

I'm not going to dwell on it because, frankly, I'm a little depressed after watching that, but I think tonight was all the proof you need that 4-4-2 is now obsolete as an attacking tactic at the top level of the game. Sure it works as a defensive tactic, if you keep your two banks of four close together and aim to frustrate the opposition, but we were never going to do that, we were going to at least try and win the game.

We gave up the centre of the pitch so easily to City, they had so much space in between our midfield and defence, it would have been embarrassing for them to beat us by any less than they did. Johnson, Milner and Barry all played well, but I think in general we made City look a lot better than they are. I think Roy has to take most of the blame for tonight, not only for picking a formation that was never going to work, but for then failing to change thinks when we were being so easily outplayed and outnumbered. However, a lot of the players didn't help the cause by looking disinterested. Poor show all round and I shall be drinking plenty tonight to drown my sorrows.

Already have, mate, beaten you too it. What saddens me that in a London pub I am used to there being faux Liverpool fans, but tonight there were also faux City fans, but thankfully not enough to gloat. Liverpool were outplayed in the middle and the one chance they had to come across in form England Goalie, Joe Hart, top player he is. I don't think City were three goals good, I think Liverpool were three goals bad. Adam Johnson has gone right down in my estimation for trying to get Skrtel sent off. Shameful.

[Balthazars]

Saw that Torres started the match last night, is he even fully fit? I got the impression he would be nowhere near full-fitness just yet. Either way, he looks like he's struggling to me. Excellent result for City, they'll certainly take a heap of confidence from that, but I agree with Terk that I think Liverpool made City look better than they actually are at this point in time.

Barca turn their attentions to another player, and the "we all love you so much, come play with us" brigade starts up again.

As for the debate between TPF and Salk, I'll throw this little nugget in here: Last season when Arsenal lost to Spurs in the league towards the end of the season, I was absolutely livid. The main reason that I was livid was that of any team in the league last season, absolutely 100%, Arsenal should not have lost to Spurs. This is not because I disrespect Spurs (although I admit a healthy dose of joy whenever I see the Spuds screw up). The reason is because for a very long time Arsenal has had it all over Spurs in the league, with the Spuds having never beaten Arsenal in the league under Wenger.

That kind of psychology is sometimes vital in football, and it helps Arsenal 'keep Spurs in their place' (i.e. ideally below us in the league). Even though Spurs improved a lot and got Champions League qualification, if they still couldn't beat Arsenal in their best season in many years, the psychological scars would remain. However, as Spurs won that match, all of a sudden there was this sense of belief around Spurs that they could take Arsenal (if you don't believe me, you should have seen the upswing in tough talking from Spud fans after that result and over the summer on some forums). While they probably can take Arsenal, them believing that they can take Arsenal makes it much more likely that it would happen. And I really don't want that.

In that sense, I was livid at losing that match. I was ranting about it for days on the other forums. It was appalling, the worst possible result for the club last season, not out of disrespect to Spurs, but because it was a match that Arsenal simply should not have lost under any circumstances. At least from an Arsenal fan's perpsective.

[Terk]

Saw that Torres started the match last night, is he even fully fit? I got the impression he would be nowhere near full-fitness just yet. Either way, he looks like he's struggling to me. Excellent result for City, they'll certainly take a heap of confidence from that, but I agree with Terk that I think Liverpool made City look better than they actually are at this point in time.

Torres is basically still in the pre-season phase of his training after picking up the injury at the World Cup. He's a good few games from being fully fit yet.

[tenthreeleader]

It really does depend on who we get in' date=' simple as that, we have good players, no doubt, a decent manager will keep us in the top 8. Select the wrong guy and who knows what will happen.[/quote']

Then I'd pray BB stays as far away from you as possible.

[tenthreeleader]

Very proud of my younglings tonight. We were down 3-1 with fifteen minutes to go and came back to get a draw. Also had a joust with the other coach, who gave one of those sideways complaints to his bench about 'intensity' when I told my players the proper way to line up to take a penalty (which we scored).

This was the same coach who actually approached me across the center line into my technical area and asked if his keeper could handle the ball outside the six-yard box (since mine was) and whose players were offside all night because he hadn't taught them the rule.

< sigh >

[Balthazars]

Very proud of my younglings tonight. We were down 3-1 with fifteen minutes to go and came back to get a draw. Also had a joust with the other coach, who gave one of those sideways complaints to his bench about 'intensity' when I told my players the proper way to line up to take a penalty (which we scored).

This was the same coach who actually approached me across the center line into my technical area and asked if his keeper could handle the ball outside the six-yard box (since mine was) and whose players were offside all night because he hadn't taught them the rule.

< sigh >

Haha, goalkeeping would be very difficult if you can only handle the ball inside the six-yard box! I pity the poor guy who was in goal for that team! Wow, that coach is appalling, I never realised the standard could be that bad (never came across any coach with such poor knowledge of the basics while playing for my school back in the day, and this is in Melbourne, Aussie Rules heartland)!

Maybe I could get a job as a coach if I moved to the US.

Also, I hope properly enlightened that man, 10-3!

[tenthreeleader]

Haha, goalkeeping would be very difficult if you can only handle the ball inside the six-yard box! I pity the poor guy who was in goal for that team! Wow, that coach is appalling, I never realised the standard could be that bad (never came across any coach with such poor knowledge of the basics while playing for my school back in the day, and this is in Melbourne, Aussie Rules heartland)!

Maybe I could get a job as a coach if I moved to the US.

Also, I hope properly enlightened that man, 10-3!

You could easily coach youth levels here, I am sure. If I can do it, you certainly can.

What got on my t**s was the comment about intensity. I am trying to teach young kids to play the game the right way, sharing the ball, passing into space and learning some basic systems like triangles, and I am going to instruct them from the touchline.

I've got sixteen players (we play nine a side) and no assistant. So if I want someone's attention, I'm going to get it somehow. He didn't like it. Meanwhile, he's got a keeper who doesn't know the rules due to lack of instruction, his team's running players ten and fifteen yards offside, and yet I'm the d**k for yelling instructions to my kids.

Never once raised my voice except to cheerlead for my kids. Yet you shake his hand and move on. He's the kind that will probably complain to our league administrator -- about me.

[The-Perfect-Fm'er!]

That coach is thick, how is that sort of person teaching kids!

The complaining bit reminds me of a story from last year, in the team I played for last year. We played them at their place, the manager bought his son off....few words, next thing you know while the game is going on, they are having a proper punch up, dad and son! referee books half of our players because we ran off the pitch to stop it, costs the club money in fines (yellow cards)....after the game, the manager said how sorry he was, there's no place in football for that, 2 mins later, same thing happens!!!

We didn't even ring up the league to make a complaint, we told them it's something they should sort of out internally and wouldn't want the club to face trouble because apart from that, they were quite a nice team!

a month later, we play them at home, a day later, our club was given something like £200 fines because the corner flags weren't the correct flags, we didn't use proper substitute cards and there was no rope around the pitch to keep the crowd 5 yards back. How ridiculous and pathetic is that.

[The-Perfect-Fm'er!]

Then I'd pray BB stays as far away from you as possible.

I hope

Not many managers out there though are there?

I wouldn't mind taking that Ferguson guy from Manchester United. Seems like a decent manager.

[tenthreeleader]

That coach is thick' date=' how is that sort of person teaching kids!

The complaining bit reminds me of a story from last year, in the team I played for last year. We played them at their place, the manager bought his son off....few words, next thing you know while the game is going on, they are having a proper punch up, dad and son! referee books half of our players because we ran off the pitch to stop it, costs the club money in fines (yellow cards)....after the game, the manager said how sorry he was, there's no place in football for that, 2 mins later, same thing happens!!!

We didn't even ring up the league to make a complaint, we told them it's something they should sort of out internally and wouldn't want the club to face trouble because apart from that, they were quite a nice team!

a month later, we play them at home, a day later, our club was given something like £200 fines because the corner flags weren't the correct flags, we didn't use proper substitute cards and there was no rope around the pitch to keep the crowd 5 yards back. How ridiculous and pathetic is that.[/quote']

The world is filled with strange people. No question about it.

[tenthreeleader]

I hope

Not many managers out there though are there?

I wouldn't mind taking that Ferguson guy from Manchester United. Seems like a decent manager.

That's just the problem. No there aren't. Frankly I could see a guy like Alan Curbishley doing a job for you.

[BenArsenal]

The following will be an explosive topic, so be warned:

Arteta for England.

Discuss.

[Balthazars]

The following will be an explosive topic, so be warned:

Arteta for England.

Discuss.

Why explosive? Great move for both parties. Arteta stands next to zero chance of breaking into the Spain national team. England desperately need midfielders with a bit of creative zest who can actually pass the ball (and he's a goal-threat and dead-ball specialist too). He's younger than current incumbants such as Gerrard and Lampard.

He said he'd consider it, and he's never been capped at senior level for Spain so FIFA shouldn't get its collective nickers in a twist, at least not on a stonewalling kind of manner. Why the heck wouldn't you?

[WLKRAS]

No thank you. It's bad enough that the England cricket team has more South Africans than English

[BenArsenal]

I agree with Balth, but my reasons are more radical.

I don't actually like all these nationalistic nonsense. I believe talent should be rewarded, and even if it's not from his natural birthplace but from his adopted homeland, so be it. We're a globalised world already for God's sake. Everyone should be able to go anywhere to do anything.

Put simply, if another country decides to reward my talents, in exchange for citizenship, I would ditch Singapore no problems.

Maybe that's just me.

[Wegason]

Are they really?

Newcastle pulled in 43,000 yesterday, for a Sunday game that was on television no less.

Size of the attendances does not determine the size of the club. What team competes with Newcastle for fan support? Noone in Newcastle really. Aston Villa have Birmingham City and West Bromwich Albion in the area.

Then we need to look at actual league performance, yes Newcastle had problems, boo hoo, thats their own fault and its not anyone else's that they were poorly run. Villa have three consecutive top 6 finishes, Newcastle got relegated.

What club would a player rather go to, Villa, or Newcastle? I would say Villa. Do Newcastle have the potential to be bigger than Villa? Of Course, are they at the moment? Not in my opinion.

[Wegason]

If I was a good enough footballer, but not quite good enough for England, I'd consider call-ups from the two other nations I could represent.

[chesterfan2]

Apologies for this link, but anyone who is interested in Chester's rebirth tonight in the Evo-Stick Division One North may well find this e-supplement from the local paper interesting. I like the comments from other clubs on Page 6, it gives us a ready made guide of who we like and who we don't in the league. Personally I like AFC Fylde,Prescot Cables, Leigh Genesis and Witton. But Curzon Ashton, Garforth Town and Lancaster can go and jump !

http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/chester-fc/chester-fc-news/2010/08/24/read-our-chester-fc-supplement-e-edition-59067-27124990/

[WLKRAS]

If I was a good enough footballer, but not quite good enough for England, I'd consider call-ups from the two other nations I could represent.

How are you eligble for the other countries though? I'm eligible for Holland (born there and mum's Dutch) and England (Dad's English).

What I don't agree with is the whole, oh you've lived here x amount of years, you can play for us without any sort of other link to the country. It's just stupid imo

[BenArsenal]

Size of the attendances does not determine the size of the club. What team competes with Newcastle for fan support? Noone in Newcastle really. Aston Villa have Birmingham City and West Bromwich Albion in the area.

Then we need to look at actual league performance, yes Newcastle had problems, boo hoo, thats their own fault and its not anyone else's that they were poorly run. Villa have three consecutive top 6 finishes, Newcastle got relegated.

What club would a player rather go to, Villa, or Newcastle? I would say Villa. Do Newcastle have the potential to be bigger than Villa? Of Course, are they at the moment? Not in my opinion.

If we're going to talk about this again...

I think sometimes 'size' is not really measured in tangible things like attendance or results. I think a lot of it is also down to the impact they make on people, whether positive or negative. I daresay that despite all their shambles throughout the years, Newcastle has had more of an impact on more people than Aston Villa.

Newcastle have been from the highs of the Champions League to the lows of relegation. But because they're always in the spotlight someway or another, thay have had more impact and along the way, gained more fans and certainly expanded their 'size', so to speak. I probably put Tottenham and even Leeds in the same bracket.

Aston Villa, however, was a mid-table side until a few years ago, when Lerner arrived. And even then they only broke into the upper mid-table. Sure they're a big-ish club with quite a decent history and good performances, but for the most part they're still pretty anonymous to most people.

Put it this way. I know of a few Newcastle fans among my friends in Singapore, and the official Newcastle Singapore supporters club is around the corner from my school, but I don't actually know any local Aston Villa fans or even an Aston Villa fan club around here.

[BenArsenal]

How are you eligble for the other countries though? I'm eligible for Holland (born there and mum's Dutch) and England (Dad's English).

What I don't agree with is the whole, oh you've lived here x amount of years, you can play for us without any sort of other link to the country. It's just stupid imo

Stupid how?

[Wegason]

How are you eligble for the other countries though? I'm eligible for Holland (born there and mum's Dutch) and England (Dad's English).

What I don't agree with is the whole, oh you've lived here x amount of years, you can play for us without any sort of other link to the country. It's just stupid imo

Born in one, grandmother from the other.

[Wegason]

Villa may be anonymous to people outside of England, but in terms of history, they're a bigger club than Newcastle, seven league titles, seven FA Cups, five League Cups and one European Cup puts Newcastle's 4 league titles and 6 FA Cups (and nothing since 1955) into perspective.

For me, even as a United fan, Manchester United and Liverpool are equal in terms of the "size of the club" when taking into account history, support, international presence etc.

[salkster2102]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree then TPF.

Good luck to Chester tonight chesterfan2. Hope they get promoted to the premier league where my team will show you how to play

[WLKRAS]

Stupid how?

Born in one, grandmother from the other.

What's the point in having nation based football if players can just decide to switch to nations they have no link to?

I have no objections if there's a link through birth or through parental lineage, but it shouldn't get daft (ie no my great-great grandfather was half Hungarian so I could play for Hungary).

If a player's not good enough for their national team and they're not eligible for another country then that's just tough.

[SCIAG]

The following will be an explosive topic, so be warned:

Arteta for England.

Discuss.

He's not eligible. Being a citizen of the United Kingdom does not qualify you to play for one of our football teams. You need to have been born in said nation, have a parent or grandparent who was born in said nation, or been educated in said nation for either two or three years before the age of 18. We can't take naturalised players under the Gentleman's Agreement, and the Gentleman's Agreement is the only thing that stops FIFA breaking up the individual FAs and making us play under the banner of Britain.

It's a non-starter, to be honest, but the media don't seem to remember Nacho Novo.

[BenArsenal]

Villa may be anonymous to people outside of England, but in terms of history, they're a bigger club than Newcastle, seven league titles, seven FA Cups, five League Cups and one European Cup puts Newcastle's 4 league titles and 6 FA Cups (and nothing since 1955) into perspective.

For me, even as a United fan, Manchester United and Liverpool are equal in terms of the "size of the club" when taking into account history, support, international presence etc.

Again, my argument being it's not about how much you've won, but what impact you have on people.

Man U and Liverpool definitely has had a large impact on people. I think most of it is simply due to the fact that they were dominant during a period where football suddenly became available to masses of people through TV.

[chesterfan2]

Good luck to Chester tonight chesterfan2. Hope they get promoted to the premier league where my team will show you how to play

But surely whilst we get promotion this season, will your mob not do the same, we'll be forever chasing you up the leagues I should imagine !

[BenArsenal]

What's the point in having nation based football if players can just decide to switch to nations they have no link to?

I have no objections if there's a link through birth or through parental lineage, but it shouldn't get daft (ie no my great-great grandfather was half Hungarian so I could play for Hungary).

If a player's not good enough for their national team and they're not eligible for another country then that's just tough.

I understand your points fully, and I don't want to be seen as deliberately putting the stick in, but I definitely have different views about this whole nationality business.

If, say, I moved to the UK. Worked there for years and years, to the point where I am totally immersed into the British lifestyle and lost my "Singaporean-ess" (so to speak).

If, for example, because of me moving to the UK, I get the chance to become a racing driver (something that will never happen here). And I make it big and somehow crack it into Formula One (example). What nationality will I race for then?

I will say, point blank, the UK. Because it is they who gave me the opportunity to reach where I've reached.

[WLKRAS]

Slightly different though, cause you're not representing a national team in F1.

I can understand where you're coming from.

I've lived in England for about 20 months now and I feel more English than Dutch. (Does help that I've always had a strong bond with England through Dad).

My passport however still says that I'm Dutch and unless I get an English passport (which I may well do, purely because they're valid twice as long as Dutch ones) I would still consider myself Dutch.