SFraser's Training Schedules for FM10

[donpost2]

Right, home now and time to try out my idea. Here is the player in question, 16 year old Jack Mullen

Now he already has some pretty decent physical stats, but I really want to raise stamina, and as he's young now's the time to do it (IMHO of course). With this is mind I have put him on the rather extreme focus of 5-5-0-0-0-0-0-0-0. This gives slider settings of 15 for strength, 25 for aerobic and 0 for everything else. I'm banking that he won't lose attributes elsewhere as he is so young and has so much potential. This is something I will have to monitor.

I'll update on my progress as I make it

[Jenko_EFC]

@donpost2

Please keep us updated.

EDIT:

For a 16 year old he has really good physicals. I'd be more worried about his technicals, his poor ability to pass, dribble and get forward atall! I would focus on that more with a high attacking, set pieces and ball control so he can become a good attacking fullback, with a high strength focus too so he gets better stamina if you wish. I'm not sure you know but aerobic doesn't affect stamina.

[donpost2]

@donpost2

Please keep us updated.

EDIT:

For a 16 year old he has really good physicals. I'd be more worried about his technicals, his poor ability to pass, dribble and get forward atall! I would focus on that more with a high attacking, set pieces and ball control so he can become a good attacking fullback, with a high strength focus too so he gets better stamina if you wish. I'm not sure you know but aerobic doesn't affect stamina.

Thanks for the feedback

I have decided (rightly or wrongly) to focus mainly on the following attributes: Positioning, tackling, marking, crossing, pace, stamina. This guy's physical stats are good, but if I can bump pace up a couple of notches that would be awesome, and his stamina really does need to be a lot better. My thinking is that seeing as physical attributes are easier to develop when he is younger, now is the best time to concentrate on improving them. Once he improves pace and stamina, or he hits say 17, I will stop the physical stuff and start working on his technical attributes as you suggest (in this guy's case, marking, crossing and tackling, with some emphasis on passing. I think his dribbling attribute is a lost cause).

This technique seems to be almost the complete opposite of your approach, and will most likely fail, but I figured that it might give us some insight. Obviously my approach requires you to make custom schedules for each player, and will not lead to a set of good overall schedules, but hopefully it'll teach me a thing or two.

I have another full back in training. This pic was taking at the start of his training.

With this guy I am using a more balanced approach. I have a focus of 2-3-0-3-2-5-2-2-3. In six months his postioning, tackling, and marking all increased by 1 (along with a lot of other attributes). One thing I noticed with this guy was one month he had increases in about 10-15 attributes. This cannot be down to training can it? I assume this is just a sudden increase in CA caused by something. This guy has also had 4 increases in Ball control attributes, despite only having a focus of 2 in that area.

[Jenko_EFC]

Thanks for the feedback

I have decided (rightly or wrongly) to focus mainly on the following attributes: Positioning, tackling, marking, crossing, pace, stamina. This guy's physical stats are good, but if I can bump pace up a couple of notches that would be awesome, and his stamina really does need to be a lot better. My thinking is that seeing as physical attributes are easier to develop when he is younger, now is the best time to concentrate on improving them.

There is no right or wrong, both are different, perfectly fine approaches that train in different ways. His stamina doesn't need improving but I suppose it'd be nice. Remember stamina is trained by strength not aerobic .

This technique seems to be almost the complete opposite of your approach, and will most likely fail, but I figured that it might give us some insight. Obviously my approach requires you to make custom schedules for each player, and will not lead to a set of good overall schedules, but hopefully it'll teach me a thing or two.

You will not fail! My way is just as, if not more, flawed than yours. My approach requires that too but I'm releasing mine.

I have another full back in training. This pic was taking at the start of his training.

With this guy I am using a more balanced approach. I have a focus of 2-3-0-3-2-5-2-2-3. In six months his postioning, tackling, and marking all increased by 1 (along with a lot of other attributes). One thing I noticed with this guy was one month he had increases in about 10-15 attributes. This cannot be down to training can it? I assume this is just a sudden increase in CA caused by something. This guy has also had 4 increases in Ball control attributes, despite only having a focus of 2 in that area.

Seems good enough, has he been playing 1st team football, reserve football in a few cups? That's the best way to raise CA.

[donpost2]

Yeah he's been getting plenty of first team experience. Any wonderkids I have in my team I put in the first team squad but make "available for reserve games". That way he gets kept match fit, but he's always in my mind for first team squads. I'd probably forget to play him otherwise!

[27th]

Seams like the best training i have seen this FM. Want to test it. Can someone give me the latest download link?

[kanoute-ozil]

Hey,

Silly question but can I use WF (Wide Forwards) for wingers, or is there a more appropriate training regime for them?

Thanks

[Jenko_EFC]

Sorry SFraser, but I felt my schedules could have their own thread as I didn't want them being lost in the other posts. I'll post a direct copy here.

Firstly, I'd like to thank SUCK IT for help testing these and taking part in me making them, he tested with various teams and even provided me with his savegame to take a look at his players. So thanks . Also, these are based on SFraser's theory which can be found here.

Background

So, I have never released any schedules ever but really wanted to. I wanted to release schedules that suited everyone's needs, the Tactics Creator was also designed for this. Combining the two together was an interesting idea and one I was dying to try out! So when you click on a player's position on the TC and choose his role, attributes important for his position are highlighted making it simple to find the right role for your player. I took note of these for every role and based my schedules on the attributes required and the players' position. I hope you understand but I couldn't do every duty but they are aimed towards a balance between the roles. Initially, I was going to do a schedule for every positioned role for eg; Inside Forward AMC and Inside Forward AMR/L but decided against it as there were very few, if any, differences. Also, I worked very hard on these and came up with approximately 87 schedules so any more would possibly kill me! I'm also very sorry to say there are no youth schedules either.

I needed to come up with a different way of developing and veteran schedules. As you may know, physicals are easier to improve when players are young whilst mentals are easier to improve when players are older. Therefore, intensive tactics training when players are young means players will get better at mentals whilst lower physical training will improve regardless! I have found this to be true by the results I got.

My Players Are Moaning About The Schedules

There are two things you can do in this situation.

1) Leave it! As SFraser says in his thread, a player unhappy with his schedule but happy with everything else like results and morale will be fine about a slightly over-intensive schedule. However, if you're not winning and morale is low, it may cause him to be even more unhappy!

2) Do this :

|Strength     (3) |Stamina, Strength, Work Rate
|Aerobic      (5) |Acceleration, Pace, Balance, Jumping, Agility
|Tactics      (5) |Anticipation, Decisions, Off The Ball, Positioning, Teamwork
|Ball Control (4) |Dribbling, First Touch, Heading, Technique
|Defending    (3) |Concentration, Tackling, Marking
|Attacking    (2) |Creativity, Passing
|Shooting     (3) |Composure, Long Shots, Finishing
|Set-Pieces   (5) |Corners, Crossing, Free-Kick Taking, Long Throws, Penalty Taking

From this we can see that strength takes up 3 attributes and aerobic takes 5. To keep the 'click' theory, decrease 3 or 5 depending on the attribute you want for example. Also, do this for other categories depending on your needs if you want.

Schedules

Before I show you the results, I have to explain how I named the schedules, you have a very small chaacter limit so forgive me for any confusing schedule names.

WMf = Wide Midfielder

Win = Winger

WB = Wing-Back

TQ = Trequartista

TM = Target Man

SW = Sweeper

SG = Sweeper Keeper

Poa = Poacher

Li = Libero

LD = Limited Defender

InF = Inside Forward

GK = Goalkeeper

FB = Full-Back

DM = Defensive Midfielder

DLP = Deep-Lying Playmaker

DLF = Deep-Lying Forward

DfW = Defensive Winger

DfF = Defensive Forward

CoF = Complete Forward

CM = Central Midfielder

CD = Central Defender

BW = Ball-Winning Midfielder

BpD = Ball-playing Defender

Box = Box-To-Box Midfielder

APl = Advanced Playmaker

AnM = Anchor Man

AMf = Attacking Midfielder

AdF = Advanced Forward

Quite alot eh!

Results

This was a test save which is why I had 75 messages or so.

I have lots of really good results! Thanks to SUCK IT for providing some too! In SFraser's thread I posted about Rodwell so I won't here but he has become amazing! Firstly, Maraoune Fellaini, a 22 year old on the Anchor Man schedule.

Fellaini

http://i49.tinypic.com/2dvpml1.jpg

His strength increeases. Now boasts 20 for strength without much strength training at all! This is becuase his strength increases as long as he has some training there because of his age.

http://i49.tinypic.com/2vsm49l.jpg

His aerobic. His pace went up again wth hardly any training!

http://i48.tinypic.com/14940sy.jpg

His tactics. Positioning, decisions and anticipation went up meaning he is a beast physically and can back it up mentally!

http://i50.tinypic.com/2v80cba.jpg

His ball control. Improved dribbling and first touch. Not bad and I didn't even train too hard here.

http://i47.tinypic.com/2i053li.jpg

His defending. Improved all three and I was overjoyed! Just what I'd expect.

http://i45.tinypic.com/246tb3p.jpg

His attacking. Improved creativity which is a nice bonus to add to his already good passing.

http://i49.tinypic.com/2z56fso.jpg

His shooting. Didn't improve but didn't decline without any emphasis on it whatsoever.

http://i45.tinypic.com/16kt6vr.jpg

His set-pieces. Improved free-kick taking! Didn't have any training here either.

Good distribution there now onto 2 of SUCK IT's players. Firstly, I have gave you a developing player, let's see a player who's already world class, Higuain.

Higuain

http://i47.tinypic.com/250hx15.jpg

His strength. Improved stamina and strength. Nice improvement and looks very good in that category.

http://i48.tinypic.com/xcrrsx.jpg

His aerobic. Improved agility, balance, jumping and reflexes which isn't controlled by training. Great increase and as he was on the poacher training he needed it!

http://i47.tinypic.com/2ijp09d.jpg

His tactics. Improved positioning, anticipation and off the ball. Apart from positioning, all needed for a class poacher, really happy!

http://i45.tinypic.com/2q0q8sn.jpg

His ball control. Improvement in technique was nice. Not a big focus on this though.

http://i50.tinypic.com/2iriq1.jpg

His defending. No increases or declines so all good!

http://i45.tinypic.com/207298k.jpg

Attacking. Nice increase on creativity.

http://i46.tinypic.com/jsg74m.jpg

Shooting. Increase in composure was good.

http://i45.tinypic.com/33m1j5k.jpg

Set-pieces. Was inevitable he'd lose some points and thankfully it came out of here and not anything important!

Raul

http://i50.tinypic.com/2nk86g.jpg

His strength. Improved his work rate! Declined in stamina and strength but that's brilliant for a player who is declining alot!

http://i49.tinypic.com/25thl03.jpg

His aerobic. Agility and acceleration were the only attributes to drop which is quite good!

http://i45.tinypic.com/1znorq0.jpg

His tactics. naturally, becuase of his age alot of his CA go into these even on a low focus! Improved teamwork, positioning, decisions and anticipation!

http://i50.tinypic.com/2njy9mx.jpg

His ball control. Improved technique, heading and dribbling. Nice for his role as well!

http://i49.tinypic.com/9uym51.jpg

His defending. All improved even with a 0 focus. Weird but I'll take it!

http://i50.tinypic.com/9a1m69.jpg

His attacking. Both improved.

http://i50.tinypic.com/2r2uhqd.jpg

Improved all his shooting attributes. Brilliant!

http://i48.tinypic.com/257pouf.jpg

His set-pieces. All improved!

Some brilliant distribution there, I was ecstatic when SUCK IT showed me! Would like to thank him again for helping test these. I also would like your help so here they are:

FileFront

Mega Upload

[RBKalle]

@SFraser

thank you for the explaination, now I finally get it.

Just a quick question about the ST/CF schedules... Aren't they a tad too light in the Attacking/Shooting dept?

For sure there's something I'm missing again, but shouldn't a striker [much more if a developing one] mainly train at shooting?

But as far as I've understood, some attacking skills (Finishing? Composure?) aren't in the Attacking/Shooting category, so the focus has to be split. Right?

[Jenko_EFC]

@SFraser

thank you for the explaination, now I finally get it.

Just a quick question about the ST/CF schedules... Aren't they a tad too light in the Attacking/Shooting dept?

For sure there's something I'm missing again, but shouldn't a striker [much more if a developing one] mainly train at shooting?

But as far as I've understood, some attacking skills (Finishing? Composure?) aren't in the Attacking/Shooting category, so the focus has to be split. Right?

Attacking trains 2 attributes: Passing and Creativity

Shooting trains 3: Long Shots, Finishing and Composure.

Each category is timesed by the ratio he wants. So say he wants a high ratio of 6 for shooting and 5 for attacking 6 x 2 = 12 whilst 5 x 3 = 15. 12 and 15 notches respectively. That's actually quite a high ratio too. That would explain why they seem low.

[SFraser]

@SFraser

thank you for the explaination, now I finally get it.

Just a quick question about the ST/CF schedules... Aren't they a tad too light in the Attacking/Shooting dept?

For sure there's something I'm missing again, but shouldn't a striker [much more if a developing one] mainly train at shooting?

But as far as I've understood, some attacking skills (Finishing? Composure?) aren't in the Attacking/Shooting category, so the focus has to be split. Right?

That's something others have brought up aswell and the schedules could very well be too light in key categories for what you want to see happen. The CF/ST schedules were designed based on my opinions and I tend to favour far more all-round abilities in my forward players, valuing attributes like First Touch/Technique/Dribbling and Anticipation, Decisions etc. for more close control link-up play in my forward line. This undoubtedly, infact obviously, has creeped into my schedule design.

That's the way it goes though. Not everyone is going to have the same ideas for even specific and detailed roles, let alone more general all-encompassing roles. There is no right or wrong in that, just variations in opinions and preferences.

So if you see schedules you don't like the look of, tweak them to your satisfaction. Though in all honesty you are going to be better off designing your own from scratch so you know from start to finish what you want, expect and what you have done to produce the outcomes you are getting. It's easy to lose control of schedules/tactics etc. someone else has built when you tweak them.

[charlstonbigspuds]

SFraser i am using your training schedules at the min,if i was to build my own using your guidelines is this very time consuming?

[karax268]

I make my own schedules as well. Assuming you know the theory behind the schedules and how you want your players to develop, making a schedlue will only take a minute or so.

That wil not mean it's a perfect schedule. Check results every six months or so and make tweaks when needed.

[Jenko_EFC]

SFraser i am using your training schedules at the min,if i was to build my own using your guidelines is this very time consuming?

Use this:

|Strength     (3) |Stamina, Strength, Work Rate
|Aerobic      (5) |Acceleration, Pace, Balance, Jumping, Agility
|Tactics      (5) |Anticipation, Decisions, Off The Ball, Positioning, Teamwork
|Ball Control (4) |Dribbling, First Touch, Heading, Technique
|Defending    (3) |Concentration, Tackling, Marking
|Attacking    (2) |Creativity, Passing
|Shooting     (3) |Composure, Long Shots, Finishing
|Set-Pieces   (5) |Corners, Crossing, Free-Kick Taking, Long Throws, Penalty Taking

Basically, it's the category, number of 'clicks' per category needed per 1 focus and then the attributes trained by the category. This allows you to create schedules by using SFraser's theory and pinpoint where your players aren't too good at. Then you give a heavy-ish focus to them. After a while, you learn them almost off by heart but I jotted those down in Notepad when developing mine as a small reminder.

Not too time-consuming, depends on how much detail you take into account. You may just pinpoint the parts of a player where he needs improvements and just train them or you may then take into account his age and position amongst other things. Depending on the detail you go into, it can take either very long or very short. Ofcourse you'll get better results by going quite deep into it and considering as much factors as you can although you will get okay results should you go into it withouth much detail.

[charlstonbigspuds]

Use this:

|Strength     (3) |Stamina, Strength, Work Rate
|Aerobic      (5) |Acceleration, Pace, Balance, Jumping, Agility
|Tactics      (5) |Anticipation, Decisions, Off The Ball, Positioning, Teamwork
|Ball Control (4) |Dribbling, First Touch, Heading, Technique
|Defending    (3) |Concentration, Tackling, Marking
|Attacking    (2) |Creativity, Passing
|Shooting     (3) |Composure, Long Shots, Finishing
|Set-Pieces   (5) |Corners, Crossing, Free-Kick Taking, Long Throws, Penalty Taking

Basically, it's the category, number of 'clicks' per category needed per 1 focus and then the attributes trained by the category. This allows you to create schedules by using SFraser's theory and pinpoint where your players aren't too good at. Then you give a heavy-ish focus to them. After a while, you learn them almost off by heart but I jotted those down in Notepad when developing mine as a small reminder.

Not too time-consuming, depends on how much detail you take into account. You may just pinpoint the parts of a player where he needs improvements and just train them or you may then take into account his age and position amongst other things. Depending on the detail you go into, it can take either very long or very short. Ofcourse you'll get better results by going quite deep into it and considering as much factors as you can although you will get okay results should you go into it withouth much detail.

thanks so just so ive got it right if i want twice as much aerobic as strength 10 clicks aerobic 3 clicks strength?:o

[SFraser]

thanks so just so ive got it right if i want twice as much aerobic as strength 10 clicks aerobic 3 clicks strength?:o

Yup.

And if you want twice as much Workrate as you get Acceleration you need to take into account the fact that Workrate is a mental attribute and will go up slower than physical attributes in youngsters, but faster in 30+ veterans.

[Jenko_EFC]

thanks so just so ive got it right if i want twice as much aerobic as strength 10 clicks aerobic 3 clicks strength?:o

Yep, pretty much, also then you take into a players' age. This is where me and SFraser have differing views. Young players tend to increase physicals almost automatically due to their age. Technicals improve steadily as a player gets older. Mentals improve much more when a player is old.

This is the difficult part, there are two choices here: SFraser trains his youngsters alot in physicals and not so much in tactics and mantals. This is because age + high focus in physicals = Youngsters improving lots in physicals. He trains older players in tactics more because old age + lots of tactics focus = older players improving alot in tactics and mentals.

Whereas, I train differently, young age + lots of tactics = players who are young so improve physicals with the slightest bit of aerobic/strength with really high mentals. When a player is old, old age + lots of physicals = getting high tactics because of age whilst slowing down decrease of physicals as much as possible.

Both ways are perfectly fine and when well executed deliver the right results. It's upto you to make a decision based on what you want your player to be like.

[charlstonbigspuds]

Yup.

And if you want twice as much Workrate as you get Acceleration you need to take into account the fact that Workrate is a mental attribute and will go up slower than physical attributes in youngsters, but faster in 30+ veterans. So depending on his age you might need anywhere between 5 or 15 clicks Strength training to get the ideal balance for the specific attribute.

ok :confused: think id best to use the veterans schedules that you created?its just for say a young CB who needs his jumping to develop?

[SFraser]

ok :confused: think id best to use the veterans schedules that you created?its just for say a young CB who needs his jumping to develop?

You can use them if you want, but don't give up to early on making your own. It's not complicated.

Players improve physical attributes more than other attributes "naturally" when they are young, so your schedules are going to acting ontop of this natural tendency. Once you understand that "physical = fast when young/slow when old / technical = average / mental = slow when young/fast when old" then you understand the natural trend of the player you are training.

Players have their own natural trends of growth and decline. Training goes ontop of this and works alongside it.

This thread is meant to explain how to understand the sliders, but also to explain that you need to take into account the natural trends of your own players. In order to train anyone properly you need to understand how the sliders interact, but also how the player behaves.

In this respect Age is the most important thing to understand.

[charlstonbigspuds]

yeah,so if i had a physically gifted youth and i wanted to attempt to quicken his mental improvement it would have to be very mentally intensive?or would it be slightly wasted as it wont improve too much till later in his career?

[Jenko_EFC]

yeah,so if i had a physically gifted youth and i wanted to attempt to quicken his mental improvement it would have to be very mentally intensive?or would it be slightly wasted as it wont improve too much till later in his career?

Becuase of his age, his physicals will improve nonetheless, however, with enough tactics training, I've found this to be the case and they do improve. If like shooting with 1 mental and 2 technical attributes in the category, the technicals improve before the mentals but they do eventually improve, just a little bit less than technicals.

[mteeters]

I downloaded the spreadsheet ProZone put up to help make my own schedules. I take one of the existing schedules listed and tweak it for an individual. Afterwards I save the spreadsheet in that players name, so I always know exactly what changes I made.

[donpost2]

Update as promised. This is Jack Mullens training movements after nearly 3 months:

And this is his training schedule:

During this period, he had no training injuries (but one match injury for 3 weeks). There were two ability "pops", where a few of his stats went up at the same time.

Notice his physical stats have actually gone down? This occured when he was injured. They have not recovered. What is interesting is that the distribution of attribute increases are completely unrelated to the training schedule. Any ideas why?

I'll update again when I get to 1st June.

[Guest]

Hi, first of all thank you for this amazing thread.

It took me a hour to read everything and understand it.

I just have few questions about the GK training and the Pre-season one.

The new Goalkeepers training is for all categories (1st choise, Veteran & Developing)?

And what about pre-season? Do you make a special training for outfield players and Goalkeepers?

Thanks for helping me.

Also can someone tell me how do I have to use the Short/Long term injuries training? After each injuries?

I forget a question, what about the DM training? Do you know how I can make it?

[Guest]

noone can help me?

[grimness]

New GK is for 1st team. DMs go on CM schedule. Injury schedules are to regain physical attributes faster as they are lost during injury. Use it if you need it. I personally don't use it.

[Boony]

Hi, first of all thank you for this amazing thread.

It took me a hour to read everything and understand it.

I just have few questions about the GK training and the Pre-season one.

The new Goalkeepers training is for all categories (1st choise, Veteran & Developing)?

And what about pre-season? Do you make a special training for outfield players and Goalkeepers?

Thanks for helping me.

Also can someone tell me how do I have to use the Short/Long term injuries training? After each injuries?

I forget a question, what about the DM training? Do you know how I can make it?

As grimness said you can use the CM one for your DMs, however I would suggest using ProZones helpful spreadsheet to customise the training for your players.

The recently uploaded goalkeeper schedule by SFraser can replace all the other goalkeeper ones.

I developed my own DM schedule based on the spreadsheet and the tactics I am using.

I also do not do a Pre-season schedule.

Cheers,

Boony

[Guest]

ok thanks.

And what about GK youth training?

[phidelta42]

Notice his physical stats have actually gone down? This occured when he was injured. They have not recovered. What is interesting is that the distribution of attribute increases are completely unrelated to the training schedule. Any ideas why?

Players have a general development path, they are not blank canvases. Through training you can manipulate things a little, but if you target areas that aren't going to improve its counter-productive. Match experience is always the main driving force in development. Good training schedules and coaches can get players to their peak quicker, help prevent decline, and polish players skills - but correct levels of match practice are 10 times more important.

I struggle to understand the fascination with training schedules, some players won't get near their PA whatever training you give them, some will hit their PA quickly with the theoretical worst schedule.

The drop in physicals could be because the training workload is too high, it isn't always injury, on his tab does it say he is un/happy with his training schedules? Some players won't significantly improve in certain areas no matter how hard you flog the training. Personally I tend to think the training schedules in this and other threads are far too intensive. An injured player won't progress and a tired player can't get as much match experience as a fresh player.

[SFraser]

Update as promised. This is Jack Mullens training movements after nearly 3 months:

During this period, he had no training injuries (but one match injury for 3 weeks). There were two ability "pops", where a few of his stats went up at the same time.

Notice his physical stats have actually gone down? This occured when he was injured. They have not recovered. What is interesting is that the distribution of attribute increases are completely unrelated to the training schedule. Any ideas why?

I'll update again when I get to 1st June.

The distribution of attribute increases and drops do correspond entireally with his training schedule.

The confusion comes from the fact that you are not paying to attention to the fact that he recently came off a completely maxed out Physical schedule for three weeks and lost the level of input that was keeping him at that level of Physical Attributes.

He was on a completely maxed out Physical Schedule which was reinforcing his Physical Attributes to the maximum possible level at the expense of everything else. When he got injured this excessive artificial re-inforcement was lost and he returned to his natural distribution level of CA between attributes, which forced Physical Attribute CA into his other Attributes.

You are seeing the effect of the loss of the artificial attribute reinforcement of his Training Schedule. If you use a schedule of this extreme level of reinforcement, the loss of the effect of the schedule when injured will be equally extreme on his attributes because the input "keeping him going" at that extreme level of physical gain is lost.

All players have a "natural" state of CA distribution in the absence of training that they will attempt to return to when injured or not training for long periods. You can manipulate this with training, but when such a dramatically extreme schedule is no longer working, the change back to his more "natural" state will be fairly dramatic.

[kingjericho]

is the first post updated with the new schedules SFraser?

[donpost]

The distribution of attribute increases and drops do correspond entireally with his training schedule.

The confusion comes from the fact that you are not paying to attention to the fact that he recently came off a completely maxed out Physical schedule for three weeks and lost the level of input that was keeping him at that level of Physical Attributes.

He was on a completely maxed out Physical Schedule which was reinforcing his Physical Attributes to the maximum possible level at the expense of everything else. When he got injured this excessive artificial re-inforcement was lost and he returned to his natural distribution level of CA between attributes, which forced Physical Attribute CA into his other Attributes.

You are seeing the effect of the loss of the artificial attribute reinforcement of his Training Schedule. If you use a schedule of this extreme level of reinforcement, the loss of the effect of the schedule when injured will be equally extreme on his attributes because the input "keeping him going" at that extreme level of physical gain is lost.

All players have a "natural" state of CA distribution in the absence of training that they will attempt to return to when injured or not training for long periods. You can manipulate this with training, but when such a dramatically extreme schedule is no longer working, the change back to his more "natural" state will be fairly dramatic.

Thanks for replying. I understand what you are saying here, and it makes sense to me.

However, what I had posted wasn't just the movement when injured, but the movement from when he began the intense physical training schedule to 1st Jan (roughly 3 months). In that time he has had some attribute gain due to CA increase, but as you can see all of these gains were in non-physical categories. Since that screenshot I have continued to keep him on the same physical training schedule. The date is now 21st April, and since the screenshot above he has been training with no injuries, and getting regular match practice in the first team. He has had another attribute "pop" since that time, but again all the increases were in non-physical attributes.

Perhaps the intense physical training is not having an effect on attribute gain distribution because he is only 16? I mean IRL no matter how hard a 16 year old hits the gym, he will not be bigger/faster/stronger/fitter than a well trained 20 year old. I shall continue him on this schedule and post again when I hit 1st June (probably tonight).

Players have a general development path, they are not blank canvases. Through training you can manipulate things a little, but if you target areas that aren't going to improve its counter-productive. Match experience is always the main driving force in development. Good training schedules and coaches can get players to their peak quicker, help prevent decline, and polish players skills - but correct levels of match practice are 10 times more important.

I struggle to understand the fascination with training schedules, some players won't get near their PA whatever training you give them, some will hit their PA quickly with the theoretical worst schedule.

The drop in physicals could be because the training workload is too high, it isn't always injury, on his tab does it say he is un/happy with his training schedules? Some players won't significantly improve in certain areas no matter how hard you flog the training. Personally I tend to think the training schedules in this and other threads are far too intensive. An injured player won't progress and a tired player can't get as much match experience as a fresh player.

Not sure I agree with you. These training schedules are not about getting the player to his PA faster, they are about controlling the distribution of a player's attributes. I guess the question this thread is asking/answering is: to what extent can we influence attribute distribution through training, and how do we go about it?

IMHO of course

[Prestige]

is the first post updated with the new schedules SFraser?

I'm wondering this also. I could give this set a go, if the latest set would be available.

[SFraser]

Perhaps the intense physical training is not having an effect on attribute gain distribution because he is only 16? I mean IRL no matter how hard a 16 year old hits the gym, he will not be bigger/faster/stronger/fitter than a well trained 20 year old. I shall continue him on this schedule and post again when I hit 1st June (probably tonight).

That's very plausible. I would need to have a look at a lot more of your data to see if there is an obvious explanation for this behaviour, or if there is not.

The whole issue about the "natural growth trends" of players is that it is just about as far from a science as you can get despite being very obviously existant. There are other "quirks" of the mechanics of the game that can pop up regularly and produce somewhat unexpected results.

To put it another way, the screenshot you posted of Physical decline + Mental gain are two sides of the same coin. If overall CA remains static then any conditions that are met that result in a loss of Physical CA must correspond to an increase in Mental CA and vice versa. It may look completely unrelated to the schedule, completely contrary to the schedule but it is going to be functioning completely inline with the schedule.

I guess the question this thread is asking/answering is: to what extent can be influence attribute distribution through training, and how do we go about it?

I'm planning to write a post/thread about that specific issue sometime in the near future. Not a thread on training schedules, on downloadable schedules, on interpreting the sliders but a guide to the underlying gameplay mechanics as I understand them. A guide to precisely what is happening to players and attributes, and the behaviour and influence of all associated factors.

This seems to be a rather fundamental area of the game that has near zero attention and very little seems to widely known about. This means that threads such as this one can furnish you with end results before you understand the underlying gameplay and mechanical behaviour, before you have a "concept" as to what is going on.

[phidelta42]

Not sure I agree with you. These training schedules are not about getting the player to his PA faster, they are about controlling the distribution of a player's attributes. I guess the question this thread is asking/answering is: to what extent can we influence attribute distribution through training, and how do we go about it?

IMHO of course

This is where we differ then. I don't think we have very much control at all to influence attribute distribution. I'd go as far to say that often the effort spent in trying to achieve this is counter productive. I regularly see players improving in attributes that they are having no specific training for, set pieces is usually the best example. On the flipside trying to get a 5foot4 players strength up significantly happens so rarely that its a complete waste of training time to try.

[SFraser]

This is where we differ then. I don't think we have very much control at all to influence attribute distribution. I'd go as far to say that often the effort spent in trying to achieve this is counter productive. I regularly see players improving in attributes that they are having no specific training for, set pieces is usually the best example. On the flipside trying to get a 5foot4 players strength up significantly happens so rarely that its a complete waste of training time to try.

I almost completely agree with you here.

Training works with or against a players natural development trends. It does not sit ontop of the game and distribute CA according to your slider settings, it influences the naturally occuring positive or negative swing of player attributes.

That's why high workload schedules can see increased but generic gains. It's why carefully constructed, detailed and in-depth schedules can have no visible effect. It's why extremes of schedules can either explode a player in one area, or do absolutely nothing in terms of his profile.

There is absolutely no point even trying to attempt to train a player unless you understand his natural growth patterns. Anything you see as "success" is basically the fluke boost of certain attributes at the right time, any thing you see as "failure" is your schedule doing what it is supposed to be doing but working completely against the players natural development.

There is nothing more important when it comes to training than understanding which attributes are naturally improving and which are naturally declining, because all you can do with training is influence these "natural swings". Crank a 34 year olds Strength up to maximum and he might not decline very rapidly, but you will never get him to improve 99% of the time. Do the same with a 19 year old and his strength goes through the roof, but only because it was trying to improve anyway and you just boosted that increase.

It is utterly vital to realise that players define the effect of training, not vice versa. What I am doing in this thread is trying to point that out, and also point out that you need to account for the number of attributes in each category when you come to "balance" your schedules.

[plzner]

hello there, this is my first time playing fm 10 and also the first time i have tried to down load files for training. i've gone the link for these files and saved them, problem is i can't open them nor can i open them in my game? what am i doing wrong?

[Jenko_EFC]

Are they in your schedules folder? If so when on your training screen, press manage schedules and they should appear when you press import schedules.

[plzner]

Are they in your schedules folder? If so when on your training screen, press manage schedules and they should appear when you press import schedules.

no, when i downloaded them it just downloaded to my windows download folder? am i ment to do something when downloading?

[Jenko_EFC]

no, when i downloaded them it just downloaded to my windows download folder? am i ment to do something when downloading?

Supposed to go in your Football Manager 2010 folder and then in the Schedules folder.

[shourov]

guys this is my 19 year old defender. now he has good stats in defending and some mental attributes bt i want a huge boost in his strength and stamina....... because he is 19 so this is the right time to do that

currently he is under this schedule.........6<2<0<4<3<4<2<3<0(focus).......18<10<0<20<12<12<4<9<0(slider value)

this is my 18 year old striker

thanx to DECLYN ......... he has a decent aerobics atts bt bad stamina and strength..... as he has very few att point left i would like to give a boost in his dribbling ........... so please guys guide me here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Powermonger]

Use this:

|Strength     (3) |Stamina, Strength, Work Rate
|Aerobic      (5) |Acceleration, Pace, Balance, Jumping, Agility
|Tactics      (5) |Anticipation, Decisions, Off The Ball, Positioning, Teamwork
|Ball Control (4) |Dribbling, First Touch, Heading, Technique
|Defending    (3) |Concentration, Tackling, Marking
|Attacking    (2) |Creativity, Passing
|Shooting     (3) |Composure, Long Shots, Finishing
|Set-Pieces   (5) |Corners, Crossing, Free-Kick Taking, Long Throws, Penalty Taking

In previous versions of FM, Strength use to train Natural Fitness, Aerobic also did Reflexes, Tactics had Command of Area, and Ball Control trained Flair, is this no longer the case in FM10?

I only got FM10 recently and comparing the information in this thread (great work by the way) with my old reminder notes I still have stuck to my monitor from an older version and noticed some changes in the stats different training routines apply to.

[Powermonger]

Nevermind, I found the answer from a post by ProZone (http://community.sigames.com/showpost.php?p=5086920&postcount=526). My reference table I created ages ago mislead me, I wasn't taking into consideration GK attributes would not apply in training categories assigned to Outfield players

[Ice-cream]

at the present,I'm using TUg'Traning,but I will try it

[Declyn]

this is my 18 year old striker

thanx to DECLYN ......... he has a decent aerobics atts bt bad stamina and strength..... as he has very few att point left i would like to give a boost in his dribbling ........... so please guys guide me here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Try this: 5-2-0-3-6-0-3-4-4

Strength and Ball Control obviously highest but don't forget that guy being mainly a wing striker that he does have some crosses to deliver as well. If your tactic requires him to press early and win balls in the opponent's half you should drop TAC to 2 and SP to 3, while increasing DEF to 3. Obviously you also can create some extreme schedule with every training area to 1 except STR and BAL very high but be careful that stats don't start dropping in the low areas. Possibly you can run that extreme schedule until CA of 140 if he doesn't get injured and is being played very often so no drop of CA can occur.

[Powermonger]

I've nearly read the whole thread now and there is lots of great info. Any chance the original post can be updated with the new changes and current thinking? 900 posts to read through is a hard task to make sure you find all the new information.

[Grogtank]

Can we conclude training in areas not already naturally progressing is useless unless we go to extreme levels of intensity? The more I mess with this the more I feel training is broken and needs to be completely revamped. The AI uses the standard "general" training schedule correct? Has anyone followed the progress of AI controlled players over the course of several seasons? Are they achieving a logical distribution based on position? Are they reaching their PA?

My head is spinning, too many hidden or unknown factors. Training in FM needs to be more intuitive and understandable moving forward.

[jim morrow]

Don't think only about training schedule.........Match is the key, the engine for player improvement. That's why lot of people think that their training schedule by position is the best because players are increased a lot, but the progress don't came 100% from their training schedule but because players play match at their natural position.

Put a player into a Full back training and look at his attributes improvement if you play him in a Striker position during match.

Playing match is the engine, training is the fuel.

[Boony]

Hi Guys,

On the player profile screen, does anyone have an idea on how long the 'Show recent attribute changes' arrows are there for.

I've have developed some schedules based on these ideas and Prozones spreadsheet, but I'm not sure if any of the attributes are really changing apart from the one or two. For most players they seem to have remained static, this is over 3 seasons.

I'll have to load the players into a database and do some analysis.

I've been running 4 clubs, Liverpool, Leeds, Stevenage and Newcastle Jets. Liverpool have obviously got great facilities and my lowest training category is 4.5 stars and over 20 coaches. The Leeds facilities are not bad too.

Cheers,

Boony

[Declyn]

Hi Guys,

On the player profile screen, does anyone have an idea on how long the 'Show recent attribute changes' arrows are there for.

I've have developed some schedules based on these ideas and Prozones spreadsheet, but I'm not sure if any of the attributes are really changing apart from the one or two. For most players they seem to have remained static, this is over 3 seasons.

This probably is due to them playing at a very near or maximum ability level. Once this is reached you will not see many changes for players aged from like 24 to 31 or 32. You could technically force a shift though by either having him injured or not playing for quite some time, this way he loses CA which you then can fill back through playing him and support the areas where it should go by a somewhat biased schedule.