FM10: How Your Players Work. (Warning: Hidden Details Inside)

[SFraser]

Before I start let me say that this is meant to be a rough guide towards a general understanding of the more important basic principles of how players function ingame. Some aspects will be handled in depth, some will be left out for space when deemed less important to a general understanding of how players work, and all aspects will be subject unfortunately to the extent of my own personal knowledge of the game. Hopefully the majority of information in this guide will be reasonably accurate but some information may be purely my interpretation and quite badly wrong. If this is the case then please assist me by pointing out this information and offering a clear explanation of the error and the fact of the matter.

I also wish to thank FMScoutGenie for their utility as I will be using screenshots of that programme to explain the function of players.

Overview

Players are quite obviously key to this game but it is apparent to me from my time discussing FM online that some FM users do not understand quite how key players are to this game. When it comes to match day the Manager is quite simply at the mercy of 22 players with their own abilities and personalities attempting to carry out some basic instructions. For all the discussion you get on tactics and teamtalks and training around these forums, at the end of the day everything a Manager can do is little more than pushes and prods and pulls on players in the attempt to mould them into a football team and better players. Hugely complicated and highly successful tactics are still only an excellent arrangement of players on the pitch with well thought out suggestions or demands for certain key actions. You don't get to choose how a player reads a game or how he interpretes a situation or how good he is at making choices or how good he is at executing moves, you only get to decide their shape and position while emphasising a preference for a few key actions.

While it is true that the actions and tactical behaviour you get to instruct a player in leads to a hugely engrossing tactical game and allows for an amazing degree of simulation of real life, it still all boils down to the players you have on the pitch and how they are performing. With FM10 and the Tactics Creator and On-The-Fly tactical changes and Touchline Shouts and Motivation widgets and Teamtalks and all the other great additions to FM in recent years you can now play football management in a far more realistic fashion. In FM10 you can issue a couple of shouts at your players to bombard Nervous Centrebacks from range, to whip passes from flank to flank past tired and slow midfielders, to tighten up and restrict chances for opponent strikers that are Fired Up! because you have just nicked a one goal lead. FM10 extends the entireally player based gameplay to new levels. In previous games you could create and exploit tactics based on players technical and physical ability and intelligence and tactical match strategy. In FM10 you can create and exploit tactics based on player Confidence and Personality, player condition and the time on the clock with consumate ease.

The only assurance of failure in FM10 is failing to understand your players. If you understand your players then no matter how bad you are at the game you will learn and improve. If you do not understand your players then no matter how brilliant your tactics or training or teamtalks or anything else appears, you will always be stuck in a position of ignorance, unable to improve and unable to ever really play the game. It does not matter if you edit yourself into a position of absolute supremacy at game start, if you cannot manage your players you will grind yourself into the dirt and you will fail at this game, because this is Football Manager.

Players

Every player in the game is a vibrant, unique, complex, evolving character. Each player has a huge array of individual footballing abilities and a complex individual personality. They can grow, evolve and decline. They are subject to wide ranging external views on their quality. They each experience a season differently, react to the rigours of footballing life differently, relate to the dressing room or the pitch or the opponent in their own way, and they each view yourself the manager in a different light. Football Manager has one of the deepest "NPC" character systems you will find in any game, because ultimately that is what football is all about. As Football fans both the buyer and developer of FM may not see the game as having such a huge and deep "NPC" character system because of the focus on Football, but that is exactly what this game is all about. FM is like the The Sims where each character is 100x more complex and there are 10x or 20x or 30x more characters to deal with, with the added caveat that at the end of the week you must go out and get a result on the pitch.

That said, each player is still a set of values for a set of variables that functions ingame to produce behaviour. FM is still a computer game and even the most complex of computer game characters must still behave entireally rationally and logically, even if there is some random number values chucked into equations here and there. That means that players will react in entireally understandable ways if not entireally predictable ways. This is something a great deal of FM users do not understand. Everything in the game can be understood but not always predicted. Combine this to the above point that ingame actions and events depend on player reactions and not tactical or choice absolutes, combined again to the quantity of information being processed and the quantity of calculations being made, and you have a situation where unpredictable yet understandable players are carrying out vast numbers of individual actions according to their own specific attributes, while the manager simply gets to influence these events.

The vast complexity of the characters in the game is it's greatest strength, yet a weakness. Many players simply refuse to acknowledge that their tactical instructions are dependant on the interaction of multiple player attributes rather than being some kind of absolute rule. I remember several discussion last year on precisely this issue. Tactics were broken in FM09 like all other FM and CM games simply because players behaved like imperfect individuals. This is not evidence of broken mechanics but of high quality simulation of reality. Unfortunately the level of documentation, review and general analysis of the game available for users either omits this information or is ignorant of it.

This leads to the situation where many players of FM simply do not know what is going on, what to expect, or how the game actually functions. This in turn leads to the same few questions being posted on a regular basis in these forums and forums like these. Before you can manage a football team effectively you must understand a football team effectively, but if you come to this game expecting a battle of set piece tactics and vast quantities of micro-management instead of coming to this game expecting a challenge of observation, deduction, analysis and subtle influence, how can you possibly be happy with, succeed with or enjoy what you play?

When you understand that FM10 is simulating the careers of hundreds of thousands of people involved in Football and you are but one manager, albeit with a more powerful mind, then not only will you switch to 2-D replays and ditch your plans to buy the latest NVidia card and buy a more powerful CPU for faster game processing because you realise have now entered the realm of deep strategy gaming, you will understand that the game is about characters and your role is to manage characters. Your job is not to construct to deeply powerful theoretical formations designed to annihilate the opponent in an abstract context. Your job is to interact with the characters around you so that they do the job you want.

Nothing is more important in FM than understanding this point. Your job is to get your players to do the job. You can't build up your stamina to play as Sweeper and Defensive Midfielder and Attacking Midfielder and Striker for 70 minutes, or refuse to shoot from range on your weak foot while you chip a lofted throughball with your strong foot on the inswing to your advancing inside forward like you can in Pro Evolution Soccer. You can't expect your players to behave like Chess pieces, moving here and there and having such and such an impact on every match without fail and with unchanging effect.

Your job is to observe and make decisions accordingly. Your job is to observe what is happening around you and then influence the players at your disposal to get a result. Once you understand what everything does then the game of FM is 90% observation. The remaining 10% is luck. I pulled that one from thin air but you get the point.

Profile In General

The point of this thread is to explain how players work, and to explain that how players work is how the game works. Everything you do is geared towards influencing players, and it is players that step out onto the pitch and carry out your instructions. You might spend 75% of your time in FM designing tactics but it is your players that carry them out and all you really do is prepare them, set them up and influence them.

The players profile screens are therefore by far and away the most important screens you will ever see in FM. Those FM users that take one look at a players profile and then spend the rest of their careers designing tactics and scouring Transfer markets for recognisable names should be ashamed, but their results in FM will no doubt reflect this level of management ability.

The most important screens will look something like this:

What you wont see is a profile looking like this:

As you can see from first glance players are are a lot more complicated than the game lets on from the general player profile. The second screenshot displays perhaps far more information that most Managers would like to know in absolute detail for gameplay purposes, hence why I choose the 34 year old Paul Scholes, a player everyone will know but a player that will not last long in many FM10 games. The purpose of showing the second screenshot is to show that that what managers cannot see easilly is vast, and to show that what happens ingame is far more complex and far more detailed than one might imagine.

Simply being aware of that information is not useful if you do not understand it's function. Likewise being ignorant of that information is not useful as it can lead users to believe in cheats, gimmicks or broken mechanics. My purpose is not to do anything other than make users aware of the level of detail that does exist and make users aware of how it contributes to the function of players. My purpose is to explain the basic function of players, how players work, and to leave the rest up to the intelligence of the manager. I did not produce a game that leads multiple users to question the function of Teamtalks ceaselessly, to question the function of player development ceaselessly, to consider media comments as frustrating and useless, nor indeed to question how it is that players thrive or collapse under certain environments. However these questions can never be fully answered or the answers fully understood without being aware that Personality, Fitness, Ability and key aspects of Match Performance are as detailed and complex as any on-pitch event calculation. The game does a good job of providing enough information to realise that there is more under the surface of players than is first expected, but I have found that many people fail to take the time to even consider that possibility as they play and subsequently rant or complain about FM.

In the first screenshot we can see Paul Scholes' Technical, Mental and Physical Attributes. We can see his Condition, his Career Description, his Personality, his Reputation and his Media Handling style. In the second screenshot we can see his Technical, Mental, Physical Attributes, but this time we can also see his Hidden Attributes, his Ability, his Reputation, his Mental Traits, and his Condition Details.

The second screenshot explains in detail the factors that contribute towards the information in the first screenshot. The playing attribute categories remain the same but everything else from reputation to personality to condition details are vastly expanded, meaning that ingame in FM10 you get to see a players on-pitch ability in an instant, but you are left to guess and figure out the details of this character as an individual personality, a personality that obviously has huge implications for this players behaviour. All of this information in my opinion is ideally hidden, for example Important Matches and Consistency are ideally hidden from the direct knowledge by the manager, but that does not mean that users should be ignorant of the existence of these variables and that is a key point. I do not wish to know the Consistency and Important Match attributes of my players, but I do wish to know that they matter and play a role.

All of this "Hidden Information" that is revealed in the second screenshot exists ingame, functions ingame and can be found ingame but it can never be found in detail nor depth. A players Ability, his CA and his PA, can be found in coach or scout reports but it is always rated according to other players in your squad and is always subject to the interpretation of your coaches and scouts. The attributes in the category "Hidden Attributes" are rarely shown unless particularly good or particularly bad and if they are displayed ingame you will find a rough description of one of these extremes in coach/scout reports. The category Mental Traits contain the attributes that construct a players personality. This information can be more easilly found in a players Personal screen, but is likewise a general overview of all attributes and does not go into detail.

To discover this information in detail you can do several things. Pay close attention to your player in all aspects of his behaviour and reactions, download a scout editor and "cheat" or look up the relevant guides in these forums that contain detailed breakdowns of personality types into contributing attributes. It is more than possible to play this game without knowing the details of these attributes, and in my opinion it is far more enjoyable. However it is incredibly hard to play the game if you are completely ignorant of their function let alone their existence, and especially if you do not know to look out for them in the first place.

Profile Breakdown

Using my exceptional paint skills I have broken up the profile screen into colour coded areas of relevance. The three playing Categories are in green, the player details category at the bottom is white and the 4 other Ability, Trait, Hidden Attribute and Reputation categories are in yellow, blue, purple and red respectively. Personal details is left uncoded as it is of limited real function other than the Age variable. Unfortunately my paint skills leave with me a rather limited choice of colours so the definition and contrast between some categories is rather poor.

In the profile we can see 6 distinct colours for 8 different groups of attributes or other important details. Technical, Mental and Physical attributes function almost identically and function only when a player is on the pitch for the most part. They are therefore grouped together. Each of these distinct categories functions in a particular way and has a particular role and relevance to a players behaviour or other issues regarding the player. Each is generally quite simple in it's own function but each also related to each other and this relationship can become quite complex. Ultimately these distinctions between groups and colours represent only particular details of particular aspects they do not in anyway represent isolation or independence, and ultimately the complex relationships between all groups produce a player for whom personality is closely tied to ability, reputation and the further evolution of all groups.

Yellow - Ability Category

I wish to start with this panel first as it is something of a hinge around which player attributes and player ability and player development and player personality evolves. Every player has a Current level of Ability and a Potential level of Ability known from here on in as CA and PA. CA effectively describes a quantity of ability points a player currently has while PA describes the maximum quantity of ability points a player can ever obtain. Ability points only exist in Ability Attributes which is the Green group of Attributes and CA is an indicator of the overall quantity of Ability Points existing in those attributes. Those familiar with Roleplaying Games or other character based games can perhaps see a relationship to Experience points and this is not inaccurate. The Ability screen shows the current quantity of ability points existing within a characters abilities, and the maximum quantity he can reach.

A players Ability will fluctuate constantly throughout a season and will increase, peak and then decline as he ages. This however is not a property of CA and PA themselves, for the game is not that simple. CA and PA are merely indicators of current ability levels and maximum potential ability levels. The change of CA and improvement or decline of Ability Attributes is a property of Ability Attributes themselves.

Green - Technical, Mental and Physical Ability Attributes

Those attributes coded in green are a players Ability Attributes that control his abilities on the pitch, and as you might expect are closely related to the Yellow Ability group. Infact the Green and Yellow groups are much the same as each other. The quantity of points in the Green Ability Attribute group is reflected in the size of a players Current Ability in his Yellow Ability group and vice versa. There is no real distinction between the two but the information is displayed as seperate for means of showing scout/coach reports and providing a general understanding of a players general level of ability combined to showing that information in detail as the size of individual Ability attributes.

For the ability attributes themselves, they are both constantly evolving and expansive in their scope. There are multiple attributes for Technical, Mental and Physical areas of the game and events and actions on the football pitch will involve calculations making use of large numbers of these attributes. Clearly the higher an attribute is the better a player is at that particular aspect of the game but again the game is not so simple as to calculate one event using one single attribute. Something as basic as a longshot might combine the Flair, Decisions, and Anticipation mental attributes for choice of shot type and choice of goal area aimed at while Composure and Technique defines the quality of the connection and the execution of the shot type, leaving only the Longshots attribute to define the initial accuracy. In this example a swerving Beckham style 30 yarder from a player with low Longshots but high mental and technical attributes may still find itself whipping and dipping past the keeper because although the initial accuracy was poor the player hitting the shot aimed at towards the right post knowing it would curve violently and quickly towards the bottom left corner, while his composure and technique ensured a perfect connection and a Ronaldo or Beckham esque movement of the ball in the air.

I don't think the coding exists to calculate that specific type of shot event but all FM users that regularly watch full match replays will know themselves the difference between a Technique shot or a Finishing/Longshot shot, or a high Flair shot or a low Flair shot, because you can see the impact of these attributes ingame. Likewise most seasoned fullmatch replay FM players will understand that a Forward Run is largely dependant upon Off-The-Ball and Anticipation for finding space and timing a run, but they will understand the difference in action, event and result that comes from a player with low Anticipation and high Off The Ball versus high Anticipation and low Off The Ball which quite obviously boils down the subtlety of run timing, space exploitation and preperation to receive the ball. It is not complete events, complete actions and entire moves that are determined by individual attributes, it is components of actions, moves and events that are determined by attributes. How well a player controls a pass will be determined not just by his First Touch but by his Anticipation, Composure, Technique, Decisions, Flair and if that Controlling of the Ball is an instant run or turn or dribble then many other attributes will also be involved in what may seem to be a basic and simple event.

Explaining how Ability Attributes work on the pitch is not explaining how Ability Attributes work as details of a player. Ability Attributes contribute their values to complex calculations involving multiple attributes and other factors that determine the outcome of a match event, but how Ability Attributes actually work themselves is a different story.

The best way to explain how Ability Attributes work is to explain them as giant CA fans, pulling in CA or expelling CA. Each attribute is an individual fan with an individual speed but these fans and their speeds are grouped together into categories while also being modified by preferred position and player age. The Ability Attribute Categories exist because each individual category reacts differently to Age. The Physical Category pulls in CA at it's maximum rate when a player is young, ever increasingly slowing down as a player ages untill the point where a player gets old enough for the CA fan of Physical Attributes to start expelling CA. The Mental Category is the opposite, pulling in CA slowly when a player is young and increasing it's rate of pulling in of CA as a player gets olders.

This pulling in or expelling of CA is a natural feature of Ability Attribute Categories, however the rate at which individual attributes pull in or expel CA is modified by a players Preferred Positions, his Personality, his Match Experience and his Training Regime. I will leave Personality and Match Experience for the relevant time, but a players Preferred Position acts as a basic modifier of rate.

Here is a table explaining the different modifiers for different attributes for different positions.

Fixed the table...

Plus.. I agree with kolobok. Best thread on the forums (imo). Anything that keeps it alive is a good thing

Att/ Posn	GK	DR/L	WBR/L	SW	DC	DMC	MC	AMC	MR/L	AMR/L	ST	Training category
Acceleration	3	4	4	4	4	4	4	5	5	6	6	Aerobic
Agility		4	3	3	3	3	3	3	3	3	3	3	Aerobic
Balance		2	2	2	2	2	2	2	2	2	2	2	Aerobic
Inj Prone	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	
Jumping		1	2	1	3	4	1	1	1	1	1	4	Aerobic
Natural Fitness	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	Strength
Pace		2	4	4	4	4	4	4	5	5	6	6	Aerobic
Stamina		1	3	4	3	3	3	3	3	3	3	2	Strength
Strength	3	3	2	3	4	3	3	3	2	2	4	Strength
Corners		0	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	Set pieces
Crossing	0	2	3	1	1	1	1	1	4	4	2	Set pieces
Dribbling	0	1	2	1	1	2	2	3	3	4	3	Ball control
Finishing	0	1	1	1	1	2	2	3	2	2	4	Shooting
First touch	1	2	3	3	2	3	3	3	3	3	4	Ball control
Free kicks	0	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	Set pieces
Heading		1	2	1	2	4	1	1	1	1	1	4	Ball control
Long shots	0	1	1	1	1	3	3	3	2	2	2	Shooting
Long throws	0	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	Set pieces
Marking		0	3	2	2	4	1	1	1	1	1	1	Defending
Passing		1	2	3	3	2	4	4	4	3	2	2	Attacking
Penalties	0	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	Set pieces
Tackling	0	4	3	2	4	4	3	2	2	2	1	Defending
Technique	1	2	3	3	1	3	3	3	3	3	3	Ball control
Versatility	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	
Aggression	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	
Anticipation	2	3	3	4	3	3	3	3	3	3	3	Tactics
Bravery		4	2	1	2	2	1	1	1	1	1	1	
Composure	2	2	2	3	2	2	3	3	3	3	4	Shooting
Concentration	4	4	3	4	4	3	2	2	2	2	2	Defending
Consistency	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	
Decisions	4	4	3	4	4	3	3	3	2	2	2	Tactics
Dirtiness	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	
Flair		0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	Ball control
Imp Matches	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	
Iinfluence	2	1	1	2	2	1	1	1	1	1	1	
Off the ball	0	1	2	1	1	1	2	3	2	2	4	Tactics
Positioning	4	4	3	4	4	3	2	2	1	1	2	Tactics
Teamwork	2	2	2	1	1	2	2	2	2	2	1	Tactics
Creativity	1	2	2	2	1	3	4	4	3	3	2	Attacking
Workrate	1	2	2	1	2	4	3	3	3	3	2	Strength
Aerial ability	4	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	Goalkeeping
Command of area	4	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	Tactics
Communication	4	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	Tactics
Eccentricity	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	
Handling	5	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	Goalkeeping
Kicking		4	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	Goalkeeping
One on ones	4	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	Goalkeeping
Reflexes	5	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	Aerobic
Rushing out	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	Tactics
Tend to punch	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	
Throwing	3	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	Goalkeeping

While Age determines whether a particular Category is pulling in CA or expelling CA and how quickly each Category is pulling/expelling CA, the table above shows how different Natural positions for each player modify how quickly each individual Attributes CA fan is pulling/expelling. A young striker whose Physical Attribute CA fan is pulling in CA should rocket up in Acceleration compared to Agility as his Position contributes a 6x modifier for Acceleration and a 3x modifier for Agility. His Acceleration should go up twice as fast as his Agility through Natural development. Ofcourse when he gets older his Acceleration should be dropping twice as fast as his Agility and because his Physical Attribute fan switches from pull to expell earliest you will start fighting this Physical Attribute drop battle at a much earlier stage.

Training can, according to my understanding, contribute as little as 0% change in rate of CA gain/loss up to as much as 30% to 50% difference. I personaly consider the 0% to 30% mark of change in CA gain/loss for Training to be the most likely value, meaning that no Training contributes 0% impact while maximum Training contributes a 30% impact. Over a long period of time you can do a lot of good work in Training to build great players but you cannot reverse the process of Aging nor negate the variation in modifiers for Natural Position. You can build up plenty of Stamina for players when they are young to allow them to keep playing for many more years that other players but only because you are stockpiling Stamina early knowing it will start expelling CA early and knowing how important it is to keep producing CA.

Red - Reputation Category

The above was complicated stuff and I am sure a few people will disagree with my interpretation of how Ability attributes work. Unfortunately things are only to get more complicated but before I explore areas of even more complication I am going to take the time out to explain something that is quite simple yet is very important to understand for me to explain the next areas of complexity. I wish to apologise if my previous points lacked clarity and confused people for it was necessary to make those points in order to be able to provide a complete overview of how players work. The subsequent information I provide should help to make things much clearer, but before then you can all sit back and relax and let me explain Reputation to you.

The Reputation Category is a way of defining how "great" or "important" or "well known" or "impressive" a player is. It is a 4 digit number assigned to players, clubs, staff, leagues, competitions, etc. and it is used simply to define how one player, club, manager, staff, league, competition etc. reacts to another. In game terms it is an easy way of deciding how one character deals with other characters, in football simulation terms it is a good approximation of world media bias. Players that score lots of goals while winning lots of competitions simply get more headlines and look better than players that keep cleansheets while being knocked out of competitions by flukes.

Reputation is gained by doing things that catch the eye, like scoring goals and winning titles. Reputation is used to define how powerful and important a player or club or other entity looks. The difference between the Reputation of two Clubs is what is used to define match odds and it also defines how each club approaches the game. The higher one clubs reputation is versus another the more defensive one club will play while the other plays more attacking. The higher the Reputation of a player the more his Transfer fee becomes, the more managers want to buy him and the more money he wants for himself.

Reputation is how the game world deals with image, power, importance, value, quality. It is one of the biggest flaws in match tactics between teams yet at the same time it is incredibly difficult to design a better system. A decent human manager will ignore reputation and build tactics on details but the AI cannot because it views the game in terms of reputation. Like I said this a weakness but it is hard to imagine designing a better system unless you are one of those customers that simply closes their eyes to the practical reality of coding Artificial Intelligence. Sometimes the deepest games must take what the customer considers a shortcut, because they are quite simply not in the position where they are financed by Governments to employ cutting edge geniuses to build computerised brains.

Reputation in FM10 is AI perception. That is what it means, and that is how it works. It is important to a player for many reasons. It determines how other AI entities view him, it determines how he views himself, it determines how he views other players, it determines how he views other clubs, but it also determines the degree of difficulty he is playing at, the level of opposition the game thinks he is playing against, and how well the game thinks he has done.

Reputation does not just define how characters view each other but it defines how the game itself views a challenge. This is important for a player because the level of challenge the game thinks exists determines how well the game thinks he has done and this has repercussions not only for his value but also for his ability and personality and his reaction to events.

Purple - Hidden Attributes Category

This is another quite simple and quite vital area of a players profile. The attributes here all determine certain key aspects of a players general behaviour and character on the football pitch. These are attributes that are best kept hidden in my opinion so a manager must figure out through scouting or watching players what they are like on the pitch, but again in my opinion these are attributes that everyone should know exists.

The attributes are pretty self explanatory. Consistency determines how often a player will play at his level of CA and actually works out of 25 games, so a maximum score of 20 means a player will play to his level of CA 20 games out of 25. When a player is not playing to his level of CA, the average level of reduction is 10 CA points but this an average and players can be slightly off-form or extremely off-form depending on your luck. Very inconsistent players will therefore not only usually play below their ability but will play erratically and the level they play at will vary enormously. Dirtiness is an indicator of how a player will use any means necessary to win challenges and how often they will foul players when they cannot win a challenge fairly. Extremely dirty defenders will take out wingers or strikers when they are turned or beaten for speed or beaten in the air, dirty midfielders will rush into tackles and physically harrass players for the ball even when it is shielded and so on. Dirtiness is a funny old attribute for it obviously encourages plenty of cards and fouls but it also provides an immense level of solidity in players. Dirty defenders are brick walls that will not let opponents past even when beaten fairly. The Important Match Attribute is another powerful attribute that works very well with Consistency. This is the "game raiser" or "Cup Team" attribute and it defines how well players approach and perform in big games.

The relationship between Consistency and Important Matches is worth going into in more detail. If you are looking to perform well across a League season and perform with expected levels then the Consistency attributes of your players will play a big part in achieving the kind of performances that you expect your players to be capable of. Important Matches works to raise the game of your players in Cup Ties or Rivals Games or other key high tension matches. Manchester United and Liverpool are great examples of the huge importance of these attributes. You might expect Manchester United to put in a better challenge for the league title but might fancy Liverpool in the European Cup Final. Otherwise inconsistent players and inconsistent teams can become hugely dangerous players and hugely powerful cup teams because of the existence of these attributes. Pay close attention to them because if key players lack consistency you will struggle in the League and if key players lack high Important Matches you will struggle in Cup Finals or Rivals Games.

Versatility is an indicator of how quickly a player can become experienced in new positions. The lower this attribute, the longer it will take in terms of Training and Match Practice in those positions for players to become successful at them. Playing players out of position carries a penalty of reduced positional and decision making abilities, so if you intend to play a player in an unfamiliar position regularly you want to retrain him in that position and if he lacks versatility you will be in for a tough time getting him up to the required standard.

White - Match Details Category

This is the next slightly complex and very important category. This particular category is an essential category not only for understanding how physically fit and how match practiced a player is, but also for defining CA gain through Match Experience.

In simple terms a player's condition that can be found in his normal profile screen is a combination of his Physical Fitness and his Match Experience. The Fitness indicator in Profile Details in the normal profile screen is more of a description of important levels of either Match Experience or Physical Fitness. Rather than describing Match Experience or Fitness or a combination of both, it relays information on key important levels obtained by either. Information such as "Severely Lacks Match Fitness" means that a player has very low levels of Match Experience but says nothing about his physical condition. This information can be extrapolated by viewing a players overall Condition, so a high level of Overall Condition combined to "Severely Lacks Match Fitness" means a player has an excellent or maximum level of physical fitness. This is why players with 87% Condition for example can have the indicator "Needs Match Practice" as their Condition is a combination of their low Match Experience and high Physical Fitness. A player with 87% Overall Condition may therefore be physically fit enough to play a match.

The Manager does not get to view directly a players Match Experience, his Physical Fitness, his Jadedness or general Tiredness. The Manager can only view Overall Condition which is a combination of Match Experience and Physical Condition, and look out for priority messages in the Fitness Selection Details, such as "Tired" or "Lacking Match Fitness" or "Fully Fit" all of which indicate a level obtained for Match Experience, Physical Condition or Jadedness. To actually work out the specific details of Match Experience or Physical Fitness you will have to do a small quantity of problem solving, but generally the indicators require no further investigation and suffice to let a manager decide whether to play a player or not.

The complex aspect to this area of the profile is understanding that it is Match Experience that determines CA gain. It is this aspect of a players profile that controls the basic rate of CA gained by a player. If we continue the analogy of CA fans from the Green Ability Attribute Category description, where each Ability Attribute was a CA fan pulling in or expelling CA at different rates then Match Experience is a CA fan positioned opposite the Attribute Categories and the speed at which this CA fan is rotating determines how much CA is being blown towards the Ability Attribute Fans. The various speeds and directions of the Ability Attribute fans determines how much of this CA goes where into each attribute but it is the speed of the Match Experience fan that determines how much CA there is being blown towards these fans. You can imagine therefore that the Stamina Attribute Fan may be attempting to expell a large proportion of CA compared to other attributes that may be attempting to pull in a small proportion of CA, but if the Match Experience CA fan is blowing a gale and pounding these attribute fans with plenty of CA regularly then the actual drop to Stamina will be low. However should the Match Experience Fan cease to blow CA towards the Ability Attributes then the Stamina Attribute is going to expell a huge quantity of CA that will then be sucked in by for example all the Mental Attributes, or even potentially be lost completely. This is regular occurance during the Off-Season when players are not playing football. All their Match Experience Fans are set to Zero and it is rare to find a player returning to the club that has not experienced a small degree of CA loss because of this.

However there comes a time in every players career where contant max speed settings of the Match Experience Fan is simply not enough to combat the combined force of every Ability Attribute set to expell CA. When this occurs a player has reached a stage of inevitable decline, his CA will drop and he will eventually be forced to retire.

The speed setting to a players Match Experience Fan is modified by several factors. The first is the quantity of Match Experience which essentially controls whether a player is getting zero to maximum possible CA, and then we have other factors like Club Reputation and Player Personality which actively modify the quantity of CA being "blown". While Maximum Match Experience means Maximum CA gain, these other factors of Club Reputation, Personality and the specific details of each players Ability Attribute CA fans control the exact quantity of CA being gained from each match and these differ from player to player.

Blue - Mental Traits Category

This particular category is perhaps the most powerful category in the game. This category of attributes, like Hidden Attributes, do not change according to CA and work completely differently to Ability Attributes. These attributes and a few attributes from the Ability Attributes such as Determination, Flair, Aggression, Bravery etc. are what I call "Personality Attributes" and define the kind of choices and kind of behaviour and kind of character every player is, beyond his Ability Attributes which constantly evolve and only define profficiency at actions on the pitch. These attributes are essentially the controlling attributes of your player, defining who he is and what he is like. They control the rate of CA gain through Match Experience, they control his behaviour on and off the pitch in reaction to a huge number of events, they control his wants and desires and wishes in response to his own view of his Reputation and others view of his Reputation, they control his relationship with his manager and coaching staff and teammates.

These attributes are fundamentally powerful and important but there has been little investigation into their exact function ingame. A few details are known about specific attributes but the overwhelming quantity of their function in detail when it comes to specific events is unknown. Most of these attributes play a large role in multiple key situations, none less important perhaps than Teamtalks, but I would be lying if I said I could explain each attributes complete role in defining reactions to teamtalks, match odds, opponent reputation and on-pitch events in factual and thorough detail.

Adaptability - as far as I know this is the key attribute in determining how well a player settles into a new environment, a new country, town, club or learning new languages. I am not sure where else it functions but it is unlikely to be confined to acting on these details alone.

Ambition - a pretty big attribute in terms of importance. It has it's most obvious affect on where a player wants to play i.e. the size of the Reputation of the club he wants to play for. Think Ronaldo and Real Madrid. However this attribute also has a huge impact on the quantity of CA gained by playing matches, i.e. a high Ambition increases the maximum amount of CA being blown out by our Match Experience CA Fan. Ambition also has a role to play in reaction to teamtalks. Ambitious players want to make a name for themselves and so will often respond well to matches against tough opposition but are likely to become demotivated and complacent against "weaker" teams.

Controversy - players that speak to the media and offer their opinion or complaints or transfer requests in public will have high controversy. It is not necessarilly a bad thing to have a controversial player that is otherwise an excellent personality as they may rage about harsh penalties and get their own team motivated. Controversial players that are also Ambitious and even worse ambitious, unprofessional, disloyal and unsporting are likely to be a complete nightmare for squad harmony. I have seen some amusing examples of terrible teenage players being transferred to clubs they are barely good enough for and seeing them comment about how "they are going to bring real football to XYZ club" and how the player "wants the manager to build the team around him". The guy could be Pele the second but if he destroys team harmony within seconds of signing a deal then he should be avoided like the plague.

Loyalty - speaks for itself. A great attribute to have in high levels, but it is not necessarilly a bad thing if a players loyalty is low and you are a top club. Just don't expect a disloyal player to hang around if bigger fish start calling.

Pressure - another huge attribute when it comes to performances and tough matches. Players with a high Pressure attribute will thrive in tough games, will respond to high pressure teamtalks, will keep their heads in tough match conditions, and will rarely be found to be Nervous or lacking confidence even after the team a division above you have scored an early goal in the Cup Final. Players with low Pressure will often buckle under those conditions even if they are supposedly better players, so keep your eye out for them.

Professionalism - huge attribute. Possibly the single most important attribute in the game when considered in isolation. Professionalism is first of all the single most important attribute when it comes to the quantity of CA gained by playing matches, high professionalism is the single biggest modifier of the rate at which our Match Experience CA fan turns. Highly professional players will develop early and peak fast and have the longest careers as they simply do not decline anywhere near as quickly as the rest of the football world. Professionalism is also a key attribute in dressing room/club behaviour with players neither rocking the boat nor reacting adversely nor accepting undue, unfair or unprofessional behaviour. Professional players may take a dislike to rediculously egotistical kids spouting their mouths but they will not get upset, will not allow it to affect their performances, will not allow it affect other relationships without warrent. Professional players will never turn up late or go AWOL, they will react with motivation to comments from other managers. When it comes to match day the Professional player will rarely become overly motivated or undermotivated. They will rarely be complacent or Fired Up! They will rarely lose their heads and they will rarely react with extremes to your teamtalks. Unprofessional players are the opposite, easilly provoked to extremes, easy to wind up or demotivate, and something of a loose cannon when it comes to teamtalks and reactions to match events.

Sportsmanship - Not quite the same as the Dirtiness attribute which defines how willing a player is to commit a foul when a challenge has failed, this attribute is more about how willing a player is to win at all costs versus a player who wishes to play a good, fair match. Sporting players will put the ball out for a throw even if an opponent is timewasting while an unsporting player might carry on with the game when an opponent is in agony and dive to win a penalty. Unsporting players that are on the end of a defeat or are being outplayed may even end up losing their tempers and physically assaulting other players. It is one of those two way attributes, there are good and bad aspects to both high and low values.

Temperament - essentially controls how easy it is to wind a player up. Low Temperament players are likely to be easilly motivated to extreme levels through shouting abuse at them, but if they are also unsporting they may physically attack their opponents. Temperamental players are often useful for the manager who thrives on getting reactions from players but he must judge their tempers and his words carefully.

I am sure to have missed plenty out so I will reserve the next few posts for updates, amendments and further investigation of key issues. If you disagree or wish to add to what I have written here then by all means do so, but please attempt to provide thorough explanations and details where you can.

I hope this is of use to people and produces a good level of discussion. Thank you for taking the time to read it.

[SFraser]

Reserved for future use.

[SFraser]

Reserved for future use 2.

[SFraser]

Reserved for future use 3.

[Tubey84]

Wow... Just... Wow ^^

Will read this in detail again, as it clarifies the mind. I skimmed over the part I knew about but some of it gave me food for thought!

Complete vote for sticky

[ZdlR]

Indeed, a brilliant post

[ProZone]

I've been anticipating your next post SFraser and this looks like a huge amount of effort has gone into it

I will definitely be taking the time to read it thoroughly. Great job!

Edit - I'm intrigued to know whether the table of modifiers for each position can be used to aid the design of player-specific training schedules. Specifically, whether the values presented could be used to better position the category sliders relative to each other so as to achieve increases in targetted attributes?

Also, is there any indication of how the modifier values combine/work for players who can play in multiple positions?

[Cleon]

A quality post

[iamjerome]

fantastic work SFraser, you've truly transformed yourself well on these forums

[ZdlR]

Would it be a safe assumption, then, to say that the bonuses set for the squad at the start of the season will tweak the consistency or important matches stat for league and relevant cup games, respectively?

[shocking]

Great post, very enjoyable read .

Do you have any information about how the CA modifiers work when a player can play in more than 1 position? Can retraining a player to another position work to help boost a significantly weak attribute? I've tried this before but never seen the benefit, I know that it does affect it but not sure how (Zezinho, who is LM/LW,CM/AM,LB, and competent ST, drops 1 or 2 points in nearly all his attributes when I train ST to Accomplished, they return when I stop the training and ST falls back to competent :confused:)

A note on Pressure....I've noticed that players low in this will react badly to transfer speculation, and become unsettled easily .

[SFraser]

Those are some interesting points raised already.

With regards to retraining players to play in different positions, this does actually have an impact on the CA modifiers for attributes and around FM09 I think it was a case of taking the average for all Natural and Accomplished positions. However I think the actual mechanics of this particular issue have been changed for FM10. In FM08 I think, it was possible to retrain a player to play in a radically different position which would allow his attributes for his first position to shoot up dramatically and essentially suck up less CA for attribute gains which was ultimately working as a bug. In FM10 I have been reading how there is a slant towards the opposite extreme with multiple positions hindering the development of players, but I have not spent enough time with the fine details of the game to confirm this or go into further detail.

Edit - I'm intrigued to know whether the table of modifiers for each position can be used to aid the design of player-specific training schedules. Specifically, whether the values presented could be used to better position the category sliders relative to each other so as to achieve increases in targetted attributes?

I think ultimately this is true and when designing schedules I do not think you can ignore these different attribute weights, however to actually do what you suggest and design Training Schedules based on the differences in attributes when it comes to their affinity for CA would require precise knowledge of how Training itself impacts on the mechanics of CA gain and loss and redistribution, precise knowledge of how the various training sliders themselves function within the training system, and a precise knowledge of the impact of a specific Age on the exact current affinity a particular group of attributes has for CA.

For example if the Training system itself functions as a modifier to the entire weighting system, like a set of additional "Fans" placed behind our Ability Attribute Fans then it is going to function differently than if the Training system was simply a seperate system taking 30% of generated CA and sharing it out to our unmodified CA fans. Increasing the speed of a particularly powerful "CA fan" by 30% while less powerful fans are only increased by 10% or indeed reduced in speed is a lot different to taking 30% of Match Experience generated CA and giving that Attribute a double share of the otherwise equally split spoils.

Depending on this exact function of the Training system and the actual function of the training sliders themselves you could end up with a situation where you want one particular attribute to go up twice as fast as another, but instead this attribute starts sucking up huge quantities of CA from the attributes around it. I have never seen behaviour this extreme but there are other variables to consider as well.

Hugely important is the function of Age. Take physical attributes as an example. As Age increases these fans are going to slow down. That does not change the quantity of CA required per attribute increase or the quantity of CA lost per attribute decrease but it does mean it is going to take increasingly longer to increase these attributes and eventually you are going to start fighting a decline in attributes as the fan tries to go into reverse. You are going to have to crank up the forward speed of these fans by a huge quantity just to stop them turning in reverse and eventually age will reach a level where you cannot stop their accelerating reverse speed. CA will come pouring out of the physical attributes of your Veteran as easilly as they pour into the physical attributes of your youngsters.

There should be enough information to provide grounds for testing both the function of Training as it relates to general attribute behaviour, test the function of the sliders within the Training system and how they relate to general attribute behaviour, and determine the rough shape of the impact of Age on attributes themselves. However I am no mathematician. Even once this information is understood it seems to me incredibly unlikely that specific numerical data could ever be calculated within reasonable gameplay, but like you say these patterns would apply to all Ability Attributes therefore one could design schedules based not on unreasonably complex numerical values during gameplay, but by ratios of distribution according to known and anticipated patterns of increase and decline.

The game itself seems designed to prevent its users from ever being able to break the illusion of it's gameplay even when/if its mechanics are thoroughly understood, through sheer compound complexity. One user plotted the precise impact of the Professionalism attribute on CA gain under test conditions, yet when you get into the game and attempt to mentor someone you get 3 vague options on how to attempt to model that personality, with multiple complex rules underneath for the success of the attempt. There have only been two or three threads explaining what these options actually do, and lo and behold any extreme differences in personality cause conflicts, squad disharmony and dressing room problems. Therefore even with players with maximum Professionalism, you will need to mentor youngsters with increasingly better mentors over a period of several years, and hope they do not pick up other personality deficiencies or bad playing habits along the way. Knowing the precise impact of Professionalism under multiple test conditions and having the plotted graph of it's accelerating impact on CA gain close at hand is of absolutely zero practical use.

I don't wish to turn this into a Training thread or over elaborate and ramble on further in this thread, but there is yet another Practical problem in designing Training schedules and that is the size of Attribute Categories. Aerobic Category contains 7 different attributes while the Attacking Category contains only 2.

Here is an example of my Training screen for a Test Schedule I devised based purely on the quantity of attributes in each Category. It is 30th September 09 in this game and Vidic has been on this Schedule for approximately 3 months in real game time, 1 day short of 4 months computational game time (I have a match today and started this post before playing it).

Strength contains 4 attributes so is at notch position 4, Aerobic contains 6 so it at notch position 6 etc. Observe how many Categories are far below the "Number Line Theory Maintain" level that seems to be rather prevailent when it comes to explaining Training and notice how each Attribute Category in the bottom Training panel seems to be improving identically and slowly at the expense of a rapid decline of Set Pieces despite the fact Set Pieces are being trained.

The next screenshot is particularly revealing. Here we have a 27 year old Central Defender with an extremely light Training Schedule that is training all outfield attributes yet no Category is even remotely close to Medium intensity. Each Category is setup so that the number of attributes in that Category exactly equals the number of notches the Category is trained is increased by. Do take note that Vidic was injured at game start for several weeks and did not start his first game untill the 29th of August. He was however placed on this schedule at game start, continued on this schedule during his "light training" after his injury and remains on this schedule during his complete return to first team action. According to the game Vidic received his injury towards the end of June therefore did a full months maximum fitness training on this schedule in June. A particular quirk of how the game calculates Training details when the game starts on June 30th. The game thinks he did 30 days maximum fitness training and received his injury on the 30th.

The reasons why Vidic is my test subject and is on this schedule should be obvious, it was devised to test a theory on Category relationships in the hope it would prevent an excessive and unequal decline in any Category during a players injury, while at the same time having the added bonus of hopefully allowing him to reach maximum physical condition in the shortest time possible.

To me this second screenshot is fascinating, particularly when Age and Position Attribute Modifiers are taken into consideration. Here we have a player that is on a Training Schedule that increases each Category by precisely the same amount of notches as their exists attributes in that Category and is at the lightest possible Overall Workload for maintaining that exact ratio. Despite every slider being far below the positions required to produce a level of Training necessary to even "Maintain" an attribute at it's current level, this particular player is training most Categories to a high Level, and has a high Overall Level of Progress that is increasing from a position just under 50% of maximum post injury.

If we look at the Training Progress in Tactics for Vidic and compare it to the Training Progress in Ball Control which has an identical quantity of attributes, identical number of Training Notches and identical Workload per click (my thanks to your investigation there Prozone) I think we can safely bury the "Training Line Theory" once and for all.

The differences between the two are slight but entireally existant. Quantity of notches simply cannot be used to define a players response to a Training Schedule. Not only are the quantity of notches used to define a response to a Training Schedule in prevailing theories entireally inaccurate for notch versus training level versus training progress but they do not even achieve the same results from attribute categories that contain the same amount of attributes and contain the same quantity of workload per notch.

The Training Line Theory does work, for one specific Category of attributes in one specific player in one specific month of a season in one specific save game on one specific users computer.

The rest of the information tells us plenty. Tactics and Ball Control contain the same quantity of attributes and the same increase of workload per notch, yet they are at different Training Levels and different Training Progress. Set Pieces contains the same quantity of attributes and is set at the same notch level yet contains about half the workload increase per notch, yet it sitting at zero Training Level and is also sitting at zero Training Progress.

If we look back to the table of attribute weights I posted, we can see that that all the attributes in the Set Piece Category all have a modifier of 1 for a DC. The attributes in the Ball Control Category have modifiers of 1, 2, 0, 4, 1 for a DC. The attributes in the Tactics Category have modifiers of 3, 4, 1, 3, 1 for a DC. This gives us a ratio of 5:11:12 which is quite enough to explain the difference between Tactics and Ball Control but does not explain the difference between Set Pieces and Ball Control or Tactics. What you cannot see because I have unfortunately used up my screenshot quota for this post is that I have a four star Set Piece coach and five star coaches for Tactics and Ball Control. This should impart a greater variation between the two but will still not quite explain the complete lack of Set Piece Training for this player. If we then factor into account the Workload per notch which Prozone so kindly and excellently calculated to be around half of the workload of everything apart from Aerobic and Strength, we can further whittle down the potency of Set Piece Training to something that should look very much like what I posted, but in all fairness I am not completely happy with accepting those features solely as the impacting factors. I am convinced that there is something missing, despite being convinced that everything else said here is atleast reasonably accurate if not precise.

My longstanding and entireally untested theory on this "additional factor" that impacts the Training Levels and Progress of the Categories of a player above and beyond the factors stated so far is Match Events themselves. It is my wholly theoretical and perhaps entireally spurious view that the quantity and success of actions and events attempted during a match acts like a particularly intensive days Training. My basis for this claim is my time watching the development of a particularly young Free Kick specialist who was rather poor at corners during FM09. His Freekick attribute was far above the next highest in my squad yet the rest of his set pieces were poor and I was attempting to develop him as first and foremost a forward. Despite his Set Piece training being set to zero, he was particularly adept at scoring from Free Kicks and while his Corners, Long Throws, Penalties etc. predictably declined I watched his Free Kicks attribute increase over several seasons.

I am seeing similar patterns in FM10. I play Ryan Giggs in AML as an advanced playmaker with low closing down, yet I play him regularly and when he plays I play him for most of a match. Stamina and Workrate are both in the same category and both have the same level of attribute modifiers for the Natural AMC position, yet Ryan Giggs is maintaining his Stamina level while having already dropped one point in Workrate in his profile. This could simply be a case of his Stamina and Workrate dropping at the same rate yet his Stamina has passed the next attribute threshold earlier, and I am aware of this possibility, hence do not state this concept as fact, but possibility warrenting investigation.

If we return to the Training Screenshots of Nemanja Vidic we can see that his Strength and Aerobic Categories are not at the same level as his Tactics Category nor at the same level as each other. The modifiers for his Strength Category are 0, 4, 4, 2 while the modifiers for Aerobic are 4, 3, 2, 1, 4, 0 for a ratio of 10:14.

The ratio for Strength to Ball Control to Tactics to Aerobic according to attribute modifiers is 10:11:12:14. His Strength should be lowest while his Aerobic highest with Ball Control and Tactics slightly higher than strength and lower than Aerobic, but this is not the case. Aerobic is lower than Tactics but higher than Ball Control. Tactics is the highest not Aerobic yet Aerobic is higher than Ball Control when the relationship between Tactics and Ball Control was already explained quite effectively.

What is going on is Age. Age negatively affects physical attributes in a significant manner while it positively affects mental attributes at an increasing rate up untill a very late career peak. What you are seeing in Vidic here is what you saw in the careers of Ryan Giggs and Paolo Maldini. What is happening to the careers of Paul Scholes and Gary Neville today, despite being younger than Giggs, is the result of a deficiency in match practice at critical stages of their physical careers. Their real life careers in FM speak is a loss of Match Experience CA when their Physical Attribute Categories were expelling CA at an extreme rate. This loss of Match Experience CA meant their Physical Attributes simply pumped out Ability Points. Much of it went into their highly CA receptive Mental Attribute Category but so much was being pumped out of their Physical Categories without resistance that their physical ability on the pitch diminished close to a point of those players being unable to compete. Scholes and Neville in FM10 cannot play regularly nor for long periods when they do play. It is quite likely they are beyond the point of no return.

Vidic is not at this point but he is experiencing the beginning of Physical Attribute resistance to CA improvement combined to Mental and Technical Attribute receptivity to CA improvement. The training screens indicate a player whose Physical Attribute Category is already hostile to improvement, whose Training Levels and Training Progress in Physical Attributes are dropping below parity while his Technical and Mental skills are rising above parity. Age is modifying the quantity of CA being gained in attributes without modifying the quantity of CA necessary to achieve an attribute change.

I will leave this particular issue for now as this is not really a training thread, but I do welcome any further discussion or questions or investigation into these issues.

Unfortunately I cannot quote "Shockings" final comment due to image limitations, but it is a good observation and points out how mental traits pop up all over the place and are really key attributes for every player and manager to look out for. More information like this is definately desireable.

[SFraser]

Would it be a safe assumption, then, to say that the bonuses set for the squad at the start of the season will tweak the consistency or important matches stat for league and relevant cup games, respectively?

That is an interesting idea. I know that setting high or low competition bonuses will motivate certain players almost continually throughout a season, but I do not know if it actively influences the Consistency or Important Matches statistics. That is due to a lack of study and not a rejection of the idea which is worthy of looking into.

I personally would go with "no" in the idea of being happily proven wrong during the course of a season for the better, and I think I might just take the time to look into this idea during the course of my current save because this type of reasonable realism is often considered unlikely to be fact by alot of people while eventually turning out to be far more indepth and cunning than anyone imagined ingame.

[Beardeye]

To give an example of the important matches hidden attributes- i was playing in the championship play off final, having finished two places above birmingham (in 2012)in the league.

In the first minute Emile Heskey (for birmingham) recieved the ball with his back to goal, 30 yards out, with my defender pressuring him. Imagine my horror when he turned and sent a rocket into the top corner. He arguably does not have attributes to do so.

My other defender, who had been a rock all season, then missed a simple interception which left me 2-0 down. I didnt recover.

Due to my frustration i looked at the important matches attribute for both players. Heskey had a 17 and my defender had something like a 7. As the OP suggests, it seems this attribute either raises or lowers your players ability in important matches.

[ProZone]

Amazing amount of food for thought in your reply there SFraser!

I've got plenty more to comment on/ask but I'll refrain from writing it here for fear of derailing the excellent opening topic.

KUTGW

[ProZone]

I think we can safely bury the "Training Line Theory" once and for all.

Agreed.

...so much so that this warranted a separate post!

[Menz]

Fantastic post SFraser, really enjoyed reading through it. Great to see a post from another member outlining a similar detail level to myself that he puts into playing the game. Will be following this one

[zapatero]

Very good post. However, I would advise to be less verbose. Otherwise your message might be lost on most people.

[SFraser]

To give an example of the important matches hidden attributes- i was playing in the championship play off final, having finished two places above birmingham (in 2012)in the league.

In the first minute Emile Heskey (for birmingham) recieved the ball with his back to goal, 30 yards out, with my defender pressuring him. Imagine my horror when he turned and sent a rocket into the top corner. He arguably does not have attributes to do so.

My other defender, who had been a rock all season, then missed a simple interception which left me 2-0 down. I didnt recover.

Due to my frustration i looked at the important matches attribute for both players. Heskey had a 17 and my defender had something like a 7. As the OP suggests, it seems this attribute either raises or lowers your players ability in important matches.

That is a particularly regularly occuring example if you have players of very high and very low Important Matches playing in an important match. Otherwise excellent defenders become almost a constant liability while otherwise impotent forwards become game dominating and game changing.

It was precisely an example like the one quoted that lead me to realise the power these attributes have ingame. My untouchable Centreback in my league campaigns would be bullied constantly and make regular mistakes in vital matches against Strikers he simply should not be bothered by. His Important Match attribute on closer inspection was 10.

This is a very powerful attribute in key games.

[shocking]

Next question is - what qualifies as an important match? Local derbies? All cup matches, or just the final? If I'm Hull and playing against Portsmouth in a "6- pointer" match in a relegation battle, does the game recoginize this as an important match or not?

[SFraser]

The game would recognise an important match based on your Club Reputation, your rivals list, the Reputation of the Competition you are in and the Reputation of your Opponents.

I would assume that there is actually quite a bit of detailed coding in the game to determine various "Important Matches" due to the relatively detailed nature of News and Media comments which work off essentially the same system. The game is capable of viewing a sequence of results in the context of a clubs aspirations or expectations for the season and "understanding" form, expectations and opponent difficulty is a large part of the game. I would expect that the game is capable of "understanding" the position that clubs are in and increasing or decreasing match pressure accordingly.

Indeed the game does comment on these issues when playing a match so I think it is safe to assume that the game can determine when a particular match is a "six pointer" and processes such matches as Important Matches.

To define the rules used to determine Important Matches would require a lot of testing and experiments. Based on the degree of detail in the Media items an Important Match could potentially be anything from a Rivals match to a Cup Final to a title decider to a relegation 6 pointer, but even something like an otherwise relatively unimportant match after a bad run of form.

[LeesP]

If you have a young, versatile player who is predicted to become a good championship striker (for example), would training him solely as a striker make him become a potential premier division standard in the future?

[Beardeye]

If I'm Hull and playing against Portsmouth in a "6- pointer" match in a relegation battle, does the game recoginize this as an important match or not?

In my experience it does. When you play teams who are 1 or 2 places above or below you in the league, and you are challenging for the title/ playoffs/ relegation i have noticed the important match attribute take effect.

[Burscoughnian]

Since I have an awful memory and I'm going to the girlfriend's all weekend, I'll remind myself to create more new training regimes for each position from now on.

e.g. A heavily attacking and aerobic session for wingers.

P.S. Excellent work on here. Very clever stuff!

[BaYa]

great stuff thanks !

[DocSander]

SFraser, the quality of your posts is ever increasing...

Big compliments for stucturing this essential insight into the complexity of things happening in the world of FM!

One question though. The following thought extrapolates on your thoughts on the "Number Line Theory", which you disagree with. Or better, you state that it does not explain all training modulations of CA distribution.

It should be possible to work out a baseline training schedule by working out the follwing steps.

1. Starting with the schedule you mentioned, simply putting the slider for each training category on the amount of notches to equal the amount of attributes trained in that category.

2. Taking into account a player's natural position and the relative weight attributed to different attributes. Therefore, relatively heavy categories (taking up more CA / increasing less quick) will need more training and relatively cheap categories (for that specific position) will need less training.

3. Modify it for different player age as this shifts the balance from picking up fitness over mental attributes.

This would then provide a series of schedules where each player (given his position and age) would develop all his attributes at the same pace. The only (?) thing not taken into account then is that, as you've pointed out above, there is probably this effect of specific in-match events on the development of certain attributes.

From thereon you could then choose to put more weight into training the attributes you'd personally prefer as a manager in order to develop the best players for your specific playing style.

Sounds like utopia or do-able in your view?

[SFraser]

SFraser, the quality of your posts is ever increasing...

Big compliments for stucturing this essential insight into the complexity of things happening in the world of FM!

One question though. The following thought extrapolates on your thoughts on the "Number Line Theory", which you disagree with. Or better, you state that it does not explain all training modulations of CA distribution.

It should be possible to work out a baseline training schedule by working out the follwing steps.

1. Starting with the schedule you mentioned, simply putting the slider for each training category on the amount of notches to equal the amount of attributes trained in that category.

2. Taking into account a player's natural position and the relative weight attributed to different attributes. Therefore, relatively heavy categories (taking up more CA / increasing less quick) will need more training and relatively cheap categories (for that specific position) will need less training.

3. Modify it for different player age as this shifts the balance from picking up fitness over mental attributes.

This would then provide a series of schedules where each player (given his position and age) would develop all his attributes at the same pace. The only (?) thing not taken into account then is that, as you've pointed out above, there is probably this effect of specific in-match events on the development of certain attributes.

From thereon you could then choose to put more weight into training the attributes you'd personally prefer as a manager in order to develop the best players for your specific playing style.

Sounds like utopia or do-able in your view?

No that is correct. That is exactly my view on how a Training schedule should be designed. Take into account the quantity of attributes per Training Category, factor in Preferred Position Attribute Weights, take account of the impact of Age in determining what attributes are gaining more/less CA, and then finally factor into account the quantities of CA being gained per match.

The only problem is the sheer complexity involved in defining many of these variables for a player, let alone calculating how they impact on each other to produce a particular rate of attribute growth, let alone doing it for all of your players.

FM has been called a giant spreadsheet but that is unfair because the sheer complexity of FM means it cannot be played like a calculator even if you have all the information at your disposal. FM is a game of observation of trends, no matter how much detailed and accurate information you have. It is not reasonable to imagine that calculating Training schedules according to attribute weights verus Age versus CA gain/loss versus Coach Quality versus Training Facility could ever become part of any users gameplay. Perhaps eventually enough fine detail will be known for someone to produce a comprehensive 3rd party utility that does not require you to input all the data for every player each month by hand, but that would seem to be years away at best.

That does not mean that you cannot use this information or should not use this information. It means that instead of calculating fine details to perfection you will instead have to make approximations based on observations of trends at your own club and in your own players and aim for rough shaping of players through training. The simple fact that CA fluctuates throughout season means that whatever "Baseline Maintain Schedule" you create one month is obsolete the next month, assuming you had the ability to calculate such a schedule precisely in the first place.

Once the long hard slog to define every minor detail of attributes, CA mechanics and the Training system is finished, I think it is only going to tell us what we already know anyway, that you cannot feasibly micromanage attributes.

[itsallaboutthierry]

Hi SFraser,

Thanks for another enlightening read. Giving the hidden attributes the credence they deserve is really helping my team's performance but I'm not a fan of using in-game editors or scout programs to have to see them. I've found that a couple of my coaches have the ability to 'see' the consistency and important match attributes for players and report this in the strengths/weaknesses section of their player reports. I cannot see any major attribute differences between the staff that can or can't report on consistency and important matches and was wondering if it was a hidden staff attribute? It does only seem to appear in the player's report after the coach has worked with them for a while too.

What this has helped me (and hopefully others) to do is just add (I) or © to a player's name via the nickname function. Now I can tell at a glance which of my players will perform well in the big matches and which are consistent performers. This leads to me selecting a team consisting of as many 'I' players as possible for the big games and my team's performances in those games have been greatly improved. I tend to play more 'C' players in the nothingy games - not a big team not a predicted walkover - to give my team a stable base of performance. Again this has helped turn games that previously I may have drawn into easy wins. All done with information you can find in game without needing to resort to scout programs. Another case of the information needed to succeed being present in game but the game making you work a bit to find it out.

Thanks for opening my eyes a bit

[SFraser]

I'm not sure if it is a coaches hidden attribute, though it might be related to Judging Player Ability as it is technically a hidden ability. I know it only tends to show up in players that are particular high or low in these attributes.

As for the bit about adding I or C to a players nickname, that is an interesting idea.

[itsallaboutthierry]

I don't think it's covered by Judging Player Ability as the coach who can feed the information to me has JPA 4 and JPP 6 but my Ass Man has JPA 17 and JPP 18. The only attributes the coach has of note are Fitness training (19 - he is a fitness coach) and Determination (19 also). My Ass Man outperforms him everywhere else as do most of my other coaches. Interestingly it is my GK coach that can tell this information for the goalkeepers, and he has a fairly uninspiring 13 for determination so it doesn't seem to be that attribute that makes a difference here.

You're right too about only showing in players with high/low consistency or important matches stats. Reports vary from fairly consistent> consistent > very consistent and enjoys big matches > relishes big matches. I appear to be fortunate enough not to have players in my squad with low consistency or low important matches.

EDIT: Romelu Lukaku appears to be fairly inconsistent

[SFraser]

Check your coaches mental attribute. It might be that one but it might not be attribute dependant at all. This isn't something I know one way or the other.

It would be good to know if it is though.

[itsallaboutthierry]

The more I look at the attributes the more I think it isn't attribute dependent. Craig Grant is the Coach who has the ability to report on the hidden stats, Rui Cacador the Ass Man who cannot/does not.

Rui Cacador:

Craig Grant:

Cacador's Assessment of Sagna:

Grant's Assessment of Sagna:

Nothing instantly leaps out as to why the player reports are so different. If anything; from the attributes; I'd expect Cacador's report to contain more information.

[Macon]

It's to do with what type of training they are currently responsible for: your Defending coach gives you more information about defenders, a goalkeeping coach gives more information about goalkeepers, attacking coaches give more info about midfielders and strikers, and general coaches give you the bare minimum.

[Aragao]

Absolutely brilliant post. One thing though.

You don't talk about ratings which can also be found in geneie scout and i found it to be a crucial aspect of the game. The rating relates directly to players attributes. That's why you can have a player with 165 CA be better than another one with 175, for example.

And this happens because attributes are related to players position in pitch. Each player has a rating for each position, which can be better or worse accordingly to his attributes.

I'll give you an axample. david Villa has a PA of 178 although is considered by genie the best at his position. And that's because is rating is over 85%, which is really the best in game.

Torres has a higher PA (and also CA) but is rating is around 83% if i can recall. Meaning Villa is better than Torres, althouth there's not a big difrenece between both of them.

So, rating sumes up how well the player will be at a particular position, no matter is CA or PA. But obviously, his performance will be related to your whole tactics and instructions given to each player in the team.

Given your hard work on this, i can only suggest you consider rating in your brilliant analysys.

[phnompenhandy]

Aragao, the position rating is absolutely integral to this, whether Genie is referred to or not. Genie's ratings are based on the positions' attribute weightings. Appropriate training redistributes those attributes to optimise the potential. I assume that Genie's potential is based on a general training schedule. That means that with the best training, the ratings for position potential can be exceeded. You need to read this thread in conjunction with SFraser's thread on training to build up the whole picture.

[lam]

My longstanding and entireally untested theory on this "additional factor" that impacts the Training Levels and Progress of the Categories of a player above and beyond the factors stated so far is Match Events themselves. It is my wholly theoretical and perhaps entireally spurious view that the quantity and success of actions and events attempted during a match acts like a particularly intensive days Training. My basis for this claim is my time watching the development of a particularly young Free Kick specialist who was rather poor at corners during FM09. His Freekick attribute was far above the next highest in my squad yet the rest of his set pieces were poor and I was attempting to develop him as first and foremost a forward. Despite his Set Piece training being set to zero, he was particularly adept at scoring from Free Kicks and while his Corners, Long Throws, Penalties etc. predictably declined I watched his Free Kicks attribute increase over several seasons.

Maybe one of the quickest ways to test this theory is with the 'long throw in'. Throw in's happen on what must be the most regular occassion coupled with the highest percentage of using the same player to take them.

Maybe someone (I am seriously rubbish at testing) can set a player with mediocre 'long throws' and try to develop him.

ps..... I am only half way through reading the responses. BUt as always, SFraser...... top post Sir!

LAM

[lam]

Hi... again.

I loved that chart showing the displacement of training. So much so that I copied and pasted the information.

Below are some tidyer versions of the chart sorted in terms of catagory of training and another althabeticaly (no offsence to the OP for the chart and to SFraser to making these). Below them are the XL chart that I extracted the data into.

http://www.filefront.com/15436521/training%20displacement.xlsx

[phnompenhandy]

I still haven't finished digesting this analysis by SFraser, but I'd stick my neck out and say it's one of the most important threads EVER. At a (very long) stroke, it addresses so many angry or incredulous threads by posters who can't get their heads around the causes of their problems. It's telling that the responses have been limited so far - not many FMers can cope with the depth and information overload. Despite that, I'm tempted to bookmark a link to this page and paste it into dozens of threads that will inevitably turn up making the same old dreary complaints.

[P.W.R]

I have to say that after reading this thread I had to post a response. I rarely post a reply about anything but this had to have my response.

All the information that was posted is great, it really is. Well thought out and informative and clear and concise for those people who need it. But....

I think I must be an enigma. I have never seen the second screen that was posted with the hidden attributes, never even heard of them until now. I know that sounds incredulous to the community most likely, but even more incredulous is that I dont need it.

This is a computer game. Set variables, random variables and all the way through a collection of pixels processed onto your screen for the enjoyment of us wanna be managers, I would love to do the job, this game is great and brings me as close to being a manager as can be possible.

I have never failed at any level of this game. Whether I take on Manchester United or Liverpool in my first season or Wolves or Leeds or Chelmsford I always succeed. Adapting each team lineup for each game with the stats I have at hand, that is to say the basic screen stats with no hidden stuff to look at. I cannot remember the last time I failed to make it to at least the semi's of a cup or a season where I have failed to gain promotion. All without the indepth requirement of all that was posted. I never adapt the training and leave it at the default setting of general and the players attributes always increase over the season as do the youth teams. I never have many injuries because of training incidents and my players stay relatively fresh through the season, despite some of the playing most games, including cups.

I am not knocking the post in shape or form because it is indeed a very very good post, but it has made me realise just how good I am at the game. One of my friends plays the game and I had chance to view his team in the first season he was playing after buying the game. Well 'lo and behold he had added managers from various leagues and traded the best players to Manchester City, his favoured team so that he was all but invincible on the pitch. He could have played 10-0-0 and still won most likley, but that was wrong and so I showed him how much more enjoyment he would get if played within the perameters of the game and without 'cheating'. He is now loving it even more and still though fails to manage the team to success.

I am great at this game. I do not need invincible\dominating formations, I do not need super training program v1 or v2. I do not need a scouting program to find the best of the best of the best sir yes sir. I just play the game, taking each match I face on its own merits, reading the scout report and backroom advice and choosing my own team talk. I dont even look at the motivation. I dont need to. When I make a change at half time or during the game it is normally the right one and if I am behind I usually end up winning. I have completed several unbeaten seasons, quadruples and all sorts. All without aids or programs to give the best optimal performances. I enjoy the game so much and just dont need the added extras.

For those of you who think I am blowing my own trumpet, well I am and we are all allowed to. Those that post "The greatest Tactic Ever" or "The ultimate training program" are also boasting because they got a system that is great, but I just dont need it.

Sorry I ramble. The post is very very good and for those that struggle and want to know why then this will help 100% but for me I think I am a natural and so will not need to use it, but qudos to the creator of this post, they have made very much a huge effort to help and that must be applauded.

Keep on Managing and have fun everyone, FM to RULE FOR EVER and of course....

MIGHTY MICK'S WOLVES TO STAY IN THE P\L!!!!!

[phnompenhandy]

I have to say that after reading this thread I had to post a response. I rarely post a reply about anything but this had to have my response.

P.W.R. post count: 1

The second screen isn't from FM. It's the extra utility ScoutGenie which you can download. It isn't necessary to enjoy the game - indeed none of this analysis is. If you enjoy the game without it - great! Please continue to play how you like.

The threa - indeed this forum generally is for those of us whose enjoyment of the game is enhanced by a deeper understanding of the complex works of FM. So don't worry; you go your way with the great majority of casual FM gamers, and we'll go our way with the smaller community of FM 'nerds'. The beauty of the game is that people can enjoy the game in different ways.

[JLJ27]

Thanks for a really ambitious project that will help a lot of players.

Now, I have a few questions that I've been wondering about:

I bought Maxim Skavysh which seemed like a really good player, both now and for the future. He had 114 in CA and 168 in PA which sounded promising. But now I have noticed that he isn't improving at all besides always complaing about his training, so I had a look at some of his hidden attributes; he then only has 3 i ambition and 7 in professionalism. That pretty much says he won't get any better, right? So then I wonder how he can have such a high PA when he has almost no motivation at all? Is there any use in keeping him?

I'm not really sure how to interpret the values in jadedness. They range from -250 through nothing at all up till 286. Is it a good thing to have a high or low value in jadedness?

[Cleon]

P.W.R. post count: 1

The second screen isn't from FM. It's the extra utility ScoutGenie which you can download. It isn't necessary to enjoy the game - indeed none of this analysis is. If you enjoy the game without it - great! Please continue to play how you like.

The threa - indeed this forum generally is for those of us whose enjoyment of the game is enhanced by a deeper understanding of the complex works of FM. So don't worry; you go your way with the great majority of casual FM gamers, and we'll go our way with the smaller community of FM 'nerds'. The beauty of the game is that people can enjoy the game in different ways.

The most important thing is that the information is there if people wish to delve deeper is they wish to. These are by no means ways you have to play the game, it's just a different way if people want to take that path. There are many different ways to play and people should pick the one that gives them the most enjoyment and not because they want to mirror someone else.

[JimmyWangYang]

When a player is not playing to his level of CA, the average level of reduction is 10 CA points but this an average and players can be slightly off-form or extremely off-form depending on your luck.

Of course, this is just guessing on your part. We don't know how big the reduction is, but we do know that the reduction depends on several factors and not just consistency:

- how well a player handles the pressure from media comments, interest from other clubs, etc

- how jaded a player is

- how settled a player is at his club ("happiness" value in Genie Scout usually a good indicator)

- how well a player's mental stats helps him in spesific game scenarios (a player with low bravery will become nervous against tough tackling opposition, a player with low composure/first touch will become nervous if closed down heavily, etc)

I've had Ryan Babel (who is a 8 consistency on patch 10.2) deliver a 7.31 season rating for me at Liverpool, which leads me to believe that the consistency rating doesn't have to be the be-all, end-all of how much CA is dropped - as long as you do the other facets of the game right.

It's important to mention that you don't have to "cheat" with a scout tool to figure out these hidden mental traits. Most of it is in the player's profile (credit to Lyssien for making these calculations):

Ambitious: Ambition = 15-19 & Loyalty < 10.

Balanced: none of the rest

Born Leader: Influence = 20 & Determination = 20.

Casual: Professionalism = 2-4 & Determination < 10.

Devoted: Loyalty = 20 & Ambition = 6-7.

Determined: Determination = 18-19 & Ambition >9.

Driven: Determination = 20 & Ambition > 9.

Easily Discouraged: Determination = 1.

Fairly Ambitious: (Ambition = 15) or (Ambition = 16-20 & Loyalty >9).

Fairly Determined: (Determination = 15-17) or (Determination = 18-20 & Ambition < 10).

Fairly Loyal: (Loyalty = 15-17) or (Loyalty = 18-20 & Ambition = 8-14).

Fairly Professional: (Professionalism = 15-17) or (Professionalism = 18-20 & Temperament < 10).

Fairly Sporting: Sportsmanship = 15-17.

Honest: Sportsmanship = 20.

Iron Willed: Pressure = 20 & Determination > 14.

Jovial: Pressure > 14 & Temperament > 9.

Leader: (Influence = 19) or (Influence = 20 & Determination < 20).

Light-Hearted: Sportsmanship > 14 & Pressure > 14 & Determination > 9 & Temperament > 9.

Low Determination: Determination = 2-5.

Low Self-Belief: Pressure = 2-3 & Determination < 10.

Loyal: Loyalty = 18-19 & Ambition = 1-7.

Model Citizen: Determination > 17 & Ambition > 17 & Loyalty > 17 & Pressure > 17 & Professionalism > 17 & Temperament > 17 & Sportsmanship > 17.

Model Professional: Professionalism = 20 & Temperament > 9.

Professional: Professionalism = 18-19 & Temperament > 9.

Perfectionist: Ambition > 17 & Professionalism > 17 & Determination > 17.

Realist: Sportsmanship = 2-4.

Resilient: Pressure = 17-19 & Determination > 14.

Resolute: Determination = 15-17 & Professionalism = 15-17.

Slack: Professionalism = 1 & Determination < 10.

Spineless: Pressure = 1 & Determination < 10.

Spirited: Pressure > 14 & Professionalism = 15-17 & Temperament > 9.

Sporting: Sportsmanship = 18-19.

Temperamental: Temperament = 1-4.

Unambitious: Ambition < 6.

Unsporting: Sportsmanship = 1.

Very Ambitious: Ambition = 20 & Loyalty < 10.

Very Loyal: Loyal = 20 & Ambition = 1-7.

If you take the above info, add the media handling style info, the scout/coach reports, check how a player reacts to high bonuses compared to low, and generally keep an eye out for how he reacts to media comments, then you'll be able to figure out 12 of the 13 hidden traits (the only one we can't get any feedback on is the "versatility" trait, but in most cases a player who is listed as "accomplished" in at least 3 different positions will have at least 15 for versatility).

Personally I find it much more rewarding to have to figure out these attributes by myself. By doing so, I compete at the same level as the AI, thus making it a much more challenging game. The suspense of buying a player and not knowing 100% how well he'll fit into your squad makes it all the more sweeter when he does turn out to be a success.

Oh, and congratulations to "the narcissist" P.W.R for debuting with a post that makes even me look like a modest man. "I have never failed at any level of this game."? "I am great at this game."? Junior, I would invite you to join my network game so maybe you'd find some real competition, but my gut feeling tells me you're all fluff and no substance. For those who think that means you're a muppet, well they are allowed to.

[ZdlR]

Unsure why this thread hasn't received all that many replies. I think it's an excellent introduction to the depth that is present in each and every player in the game.

It's taken me about three versions of the game to reach a level of understanding in a variety of areas such that I am - finally - competing against the AI as if I actually deserve my job.

There are so many areas that you can tweak outside of tactics which can, if you make the correct decisions, give you the edge. The defaults will neither prove ruinous nor exemplary. Should you wish to edit them, you're at the mercy of your own decisions as a manager.

Every player has a style of play on the pitch that is their speciality and playing to their strengths will allow them to perform to the best of their abilities. Off the pitch, they have a personality that, unless antagonistic or difficult, you can learn which inputs yield which outputs, in a Pavlovian sense.

As an example, my current save is a failed attempt to win the World Cup in 2010 with Argentina. I gave myself all the boosts I could by making myself Argentinian and an ex-international pro. Despite a landmark qualification win over Brazil, I suffered from too many world class players to choose from up front and not enough quality defensive cover at the back. My tactics lurched from the sublime to the ridiculous as I struggled to crowbar stars into the lineup, despite their fitful form. Qualifying from the finals group wasn't all that difficult, but a win and two draws didn't send the requisite message out that we meant business. We were subsequently beaten by a motivated, if flawed, France side in the first knock-out round. Since then, I went on holiday desperate for a club role that reflected my high ambitions. Finally, in November 2017, Henk ten Cate is poached by Manchester United and leaves the door open at Ajax. A massive transfer kitty from innumerable Champions League qualifications ensured I wouldn't have to worry about signing the right players and the nucleus of a dominate domestic team and decent continental outfit was already in place. I swear that this game has a deep story arc running through it - that it knows exactly what it is doing and that it realises the situations that are present, should you also spot them. Despite a comprehensive 4v1 loss at home to a shockingly-good Barcelona side to knock us down to the more appropriate Euro Cup, my record is P7 W7, scored 21 and conceded 3. In the same time, PSV have dropped two points and their lead is cut to three points, with a league-influencing bout at the Philips Stadion next up.

Tactically, I think I've finally found my legs thanks to Cleon, SFraser, wwfan - the forum members whose posts are always enlightening. Like Cleon, I see absolutely no need for wholesale changes in between matches. Granted, one or two things might need tweaking: slightly longer passing in poor conditions, a deeper d-line against the pacy forwards, a slower tempo against counter-attacking teams. Other than that, I might lower my defenders mentality against a better side, or increase it if I'm conceding too much ground in midfield. Is it just me, or is it true that d-line relates to defensive position when you have the ball, and without the ball your defence's position is dictated largely by the players' mentalities. This is one of the things I'm not sure of really. Other than that, there's still some confusion over the difference between zonal and man marking, although I'm having success with three at the back - two man-marking ball-players and a zonal sweeper to mop up.

To conclude this rambly post, I'm hoping that I've not just hit another false dawn and my form eventually crumbles and I remain clueless as to why. It does seem as though I've constructed a tactic that is both solid at the back and lethal going forward a balance which I've never managed previously.

[Beardeye]

I have just finished another season in the championship with a team i have brought up from league 2. i went on a 23 game unbeaten streak and was sitting nicely in second place. however with 7 games to go my team pretty much imploded.

My team which was playing fluent clinical football seemed to fall apart, and my ass-man was giving in game feedback like "we cant pass, we shoot, we cant finish- we are being totally outplayed" and i began losing games i was previously winning 2 or 3 nil. i went on to lose the playoff final (for the second year running) against a team i finished 7 points clear of in the league.

It is my suspicion that with 7 games to go and an automatic promotion place up for grabs, the "pressure" attribute kicked in and my players pressure vaules were so low that they cracked. My tactics, team talks and motivation through press conferences/comments were the same as before but my team "couldnt pass, couldnt shoot, couldnt finish".

Can anyone confirm if this sounds like the pressure attribute at work- or if it could have been something else?

[DocSander]

Can anyone confirm if this sounds like the pressure attribute at work- or if it could have been something else?

Nice example of a real life football phenomenon showing off in FM...

Talking FM language, there may be several issues running here:

- Your team is estimated higher by your opponents due to the succesful season so far, leading the AI to take a different tactical approach. You have to anticipate more defensive tactics coming your way come the end of the season.

- Your players are more pushed towards complacency after their initially succesful campaign. Not all players will be equally susceptible for this. Especially players with low professionalism, low ambition, low pressure stats will be more susceptible and need different types of pre-match talks for this reason. Keep a good eye on your motivation widget during the match for this one.

- Of course, things like fitness at the end of a season could be in play too, but that would be quite easy to spot during play, so I assume that's not the case in your game.

Regards, DocSander

[Beardeye]

. You have to anticipate more defensive tactics coming your way come the end of the season.

I was well prepared and switched to high pressure tactics when i saw the defensive/ time wasting tactics kick in. The games i lost were not down to this.

. Keep a good eye on your motivation widget during the match for this one..

I did this as well- there were no major cases of complacency or nervousness observed by ass man, or indeed the motivation widget. before a couple of big matches i commented on all my starting IX recent form and got positive responses from all- the team still played rubbish!

Nice example of a real life football phenomenon showing off in FM...

Not for me!

The only thing i can think to explain it is the low pressure/professionalism of my squad due to a title challenge or the end of a long unbeaten run affecting their on pitch performance.

As long as i know WHY these things happen- i find it less frustrating, and can hopefully fix it.

Thanks for the response Doc- I hadnt actually thought that the low pressure attribute would be reflected by nervousness in the motivation widget- i will keep a closer eye out for this in future, although i dont think it played a part this time round.

[JimmyWangYang]

Performances will always drop at the end of the season. It's the fatigue setting in. Check your players profiles and see if anyone are listed as "fully fit" even though they're playing regularly. This means they're one step away from being "in need of a rest". Be sure to rest your players to prevent this. If I know I'm not going to select a player for a game because I want to protect him, then I usually rest him a few days as well.

[SFraser]

I have not been able to get to my PC over the last week to respond to this thread, but thanks for the replies and appreciative comments. Particularly from the usual suspects who I hope will stick around and offer their insights from their games.

With regards to the "who needs to know this" issue I think it is a case of no one needing to know this information and everyone needing to know this information. You don't need to know the details as I have outlined them of hidden attributes etc. in order to play the game, but like Phnompenhandy says, you will struggle to enjoy or understand this game if you are not even aware of the possibility of their existence. There are massive amounts of complaints and criticisms about the game from people that do not know about how personalities impact teamtalks, how reputation impacts tactics, how hidden attributes impact form and performances and injuries. General Discussion is awash with shallow and misinformed threads complaining about aspects of the game that are detailed and complex management challenges. That does not mean that these people are not struggling and suffering, but they are struggling and suffering from a lack of information and game knowledge rather than from a broken and bugged game.

Now you know how complex players are underneath the hood so now people know that when their awesome Man City squad with awesome tactics loses a match against relegation candidates, the reasons for why this occured could be vast and numerous and complex, but most importantly logical and realistic.

[ZdlR]

I swear that this game has a deep story arc running through it - that it knows exactly what it is doing and that it realises the situations that are present, should you also spot them.

I said these words above and I now defy anyone to disagree. I lost the crunch game to PSV - caught on the break after missing that they'd subbed their fast striker on. We were knocking on the door, too, so it was disappointing. Despite them wobbling to a draw in the next game and the lead being cut to four, and then two, points, we started to look pretty unconvincing. One of my star January signings was failing to settle in to the area and decided to vent his frustrations with a vicious two-footer in a game we should have been winning but were 1v0 down in. Despite the man deficit, we turned it round, but it was damn hard work. Then one of my first-choice defenders started to continually vascillate between 'looking complacent' and 'playing nervously'. I tried to shout it out of him, then I tried to put my arm around him - let him mentor a poor kid from the under-19s whose, albeit poor, career will be ruined by inheriting this guy's terrible mental stats (whatever they actually are). It worked briefly but, in the end, I had to drop him completely. Some players are so difficult to man-manage that not playing them becomes the only option left.

Anyway, another of my January signings was sent off in another game, this time away and while we were two down. We couldn't recover and the title bid was well and truly over. However, while it felt like losing the PSV game properly killed off all hope of winning the league, something very strange was occurring in my Euro Cup run. Two goals down in the first fifteen minutes away to a poor Nancy Lorraine side, the team decided enough was enough and turned in an astonishing performance to win 5v2. We narrowly avoided complacency in the return leg 3v2. An excellent Valencia side visited next and left on the wrong side of a 9-goal thriller, the aggregate score over the two ties ending 8v6. Villarreal brought proceedings down to a more realistic level, 2v1 and 2v0 and HSV were properly unlucky to go out on away goals, 1v1. The final, however, was something utterly ridiculous. I've played some 'scripted' games on FM before, but usually I'm on the receiving end - this time, the fairytale was all mine. Down a goal within the first five minutes to Real Madrid in my arch-rivals stadium, they had shot after shot, but nothing clear-cut. We scored on 40 minutes with something like our second shot. They kept battering us though, constantly trying to puncture through the five-man defence. Lassana Diarra gets sent off and I literally watched the next three minutes of the game thinking 'wtf do I do now!?'. I couldn't exactly open up and go attacking, nor should I sit back and defend. It went to extra time and we snatched the winner six minutes in. The rest of extra time was pretty painful to watch.

Real Madrid 1 v 2 Ajax

As the game wore on I felt as though something magical was going to happen, almost regardless of my changes. It felt like I was destined to win this game - the absolute bombardment of my goal but lack of clear-cut chances, the fact that nearly every time we went forward we fashioned a beautiful chance to score, the sending off. It felt like I was being rewarded for the tactic I'd built (I think it's pretty damn good for my players, but would probably not work with any other team) and the decision not to sack off the Euro Cup in order to concentrate on the league.

Apologies for the highly rambly post- again -but I finally feel like I 'get' what SFraser, Cleon, et al. have been talking about. You simply cannot stick 11 men on the pitch and tell them you expect them to win and then blame the game when they turn in a terrible performance and lose. FM has evolved well beyond that - it is now necessary to pay attention and put in the effort or you'll be sacked rather quickly.