Deltaroad

Is the Tutor/PPM concept a gimmick?

19 posts in this topic

It's so shabby.

We all know about the problems of "refusing to learn move as he doesn't find it beneficial" So this thread isn't about that.

What gets on my man boobs is the whole interaction, how it is set out.

Example, I tell a player to learn a move.

He agrees to learn. Fast forward a few month later he comes back with. "Player A has dedicated much of his training in recent months in an attempt to adapt his game but has ultimately not been able to succeed his aims"

OK that's fine, what I find annoying is

A) I forgot what move I wanted him to learn.

B) there is no way of recording it but writing it down.

Before you ask there is a feature under players profile>History>media which does record players interactions like when you praised him, what you asked him to learn, was he successful, who he was tutored by.

BUT this feature doesn't work. It only sometimes records players interactions and when it does do, after a new season it gets deleted off by AI.

Why? I would like a record of that moves I've asked him and which he failed on so I DON'T keep asking him the same thing and having the same result.

Also why can't it say this. "Player A has dedicated much of his training in recent months in an attempt to HUG THE TOUCHLINE but has ultimately not been able to succeed his aims"

It's like a gimmick to make me go into the interaction screen and click the same commands everytime with the same results. It's like the information on what we asked player to learn, who he was tutored by and the outcome are deliberately hidden from us so we have to go back to the screen and click the commands again.

So it is just a gimmick?

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It's certainly not a gimmick, in that when it works and it pays off it's a very effective feature.

I agree that it would be nice to have a greater history/record of what you've tried to get players to learn and/or who's tutoring who, but the lack of (or rather the lack of complexity) certainly doesn't make it a gimmick.

It does seem that players personalties, determination etc (as well as your own status and experience) have a potentially great impact on such, but I don't really think it's far from reality.

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I think it is a gimmick-I would be very surprised if first team professionals spent much (if any) time coaching and mentoring younger players. There may be some examples, but I would imagine it would have more to do with the young player choosing to spend time watching the senior pro he most admires/seeks to emulate and copying what he observes rather than the pro being actively involved in a coaching/mentoring sense. Plus I don't think their paths would cross much either, both would be busy training in different groups.

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"What gets on my man boobs is the whole interaction, how it is set out"

Hahaha! I Lol'd.

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I think it is a very useful tool to have, and I am glad it is there.

However, of course it should be done better in so much as it would be nice to actually see which PPM it is he has failed.

But there is one simple reason it hasn't been done like that. This is SI's way, they include new things knowing they could be implemented better, but they won't be until the next year's game. They can't do everything perfect or they won't have anything new for next year.

Although I absolutely LOVE FM, it is my favourite game ever, I know for a fact they hold things back for next year, and implement new features in the game poorly at times, just so they can 'polish' it up and improve it the next year.

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Tutoring is very powerful, at times overly effective. The biggest problem is it is the only way for a player to become more determined or professional, and those are some of the best stats a player can have.

PPM (un)learning is much better now then when it was a hit or miss using the tutoring system. It is annoying to have a player refuse, but if they all accepted it would be too easy.

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While we are on the subject, has anyone been able to tutor a player twice?

In 09 we could do it, but somehow after tutoring once, the option disappears. I've waited a few days but it is not reappearing.

Is it only a once off per player or something now?

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While we are on the subject, has anyone been able to tutor a player twice?

In 09 we could do it, but somehow after tutoring once, the option disappears. I've waited a few days but it is not reappearing.

Is it only a once off per player or something now?

As far as I know it only works with players below a certain age (21 if I recall correctly) and they shouldn't have too many first team appearances because then they believe they already know everything.

It differs for each player, but these are the general tendencies where I cannot tell my player to get tutored.

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I think it is a very useful tool to have, and I am glad it is there.

However, of course it should be done better in so much as it would be nice to actually see which PPM it is he has failed.

But there is one simple reason it hasn't been done like that. This is SI's way, they include new things knowing they could be implemented better, but they won't be until the next year's game. They can't do everything perfect or they won't have anything new for next year.

Although I absolutely LOVE FM, it is my favourite game ever, I know for a fact they hold things back for next year, and implement new features in the game poorly at times, just so they can 'polish' it up and improve it the next year.

It does seem half heartedly implemented at times.

I have to add another poorly done feature is when you ask a player to learn a move, he comes back with "doesn't think the move will benefit him speech"

Ok that's fine but when you go back to the interaction screen the selection of PPM is gone? :confused: What? I cannot ask to him to learn another move? Is there any reason why that feature disappears when a player refuses to learn a move? It's like he shut up and refuses to interaction with me?

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Also seems to be alot of unnecessary clicking at times. Spaces being used inappropriately, inefficiently. Feels like a gimmicky program to make me stick with the game rather actually playing it.

Example

It's like this big screen, why can't this big screen, Be cut down to show here on the information page (See below?) Not sure why a bar graph needs to take the whole screen up?

asdasdzu.jpg

asdasdnv.jpg w1355.png

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2nd example.

Why can't the motivation screen be put in that space where the stats is? Why do I have to click to see a few words?

75119000.jpg

asdasdn.jpg

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I agree that the lay-out is mediocre at best. I hope that for next year they will try to give more information on a single screen, and aim for far less clicks. I'm sure that's possible - these screens show that there is huge room for improvement.

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OP got a very good point about clarity.

Maybe in the section where it says prefered move the player can do it shows the failed ones so a quick check.

The game also should remember that they failed and not repeat asking unless his skills has changed to make him capable.

I agree that the game got far too much space but I also understand this is down to catering for non widescreen formats but yes I too get anoyed about how much waste space there is.

However SI in a sense is trying to solve the issue by having user defined.

We now getting different screen sizes maybe this will flower to different settings to utilise waste space abit.

Who knows some clever modder might just rewrite the XML scripts to your ideas.

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Also seems to be alot of unnecessary clicking at times. Spaces being used inappropriately, inefficiently. Feels like a gimmicky program to make me stick with the game rather actually playing it.

Example

It's like this big screen, why can't this big screen, Be cut down to show here on the information page (See below?) Not sure why a bar graph needs to take the whole screen up?

w1355.png

Because if you are playing with the default resolution of 1024x768 the edits you have posted won't fit on the screen, and as 1024x768 is the most common resolution used by players of FM thats what size the screens are designed for.

If you really don't like the player ratings and motivations being on seperate pages you can download a mod from the skinning forum or edit the files yourself, provided you have enough space on your screen.

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There are valid points behind the hysterical language. Tutoring PPMs is an excellent feature; however, 1. there should be an easy-to-access record of what's being learned, and 2. there should be a way to cancel it - tell the youth to stop learning a PPM before he comes back 6 months later and tells you he hates your star player.

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Because if you are playing with the default resolution of 1024x768 the edits you have posted won't fit on the screen, and as 1024x768 is the most common resolution used by players of FM thats what size the screens are designed for.

If you really don't like the player ratings and motivations being on seperate pages you can download a mod from the skinning forum or edit the files yourself, provided you have enough space on your screen.

You guys basically implemented a whole new interface this year and surly a resolution screen issues can me worked around? You have integrated widgets like boxes so more information can be crammed into one page. Take the home page for example. Where I think it has 8 window blocks, where user can pull down information on varies things so some sort of comparison can be made. Rather clicking forward and backwards everytime.

Can it not be designed like that?

With extensive the tabbing, can a system not be made where you move the mouse to the tabs and it automatically switches to that menu? Sort of like the pull downs of tools>option>whatever. Rather then going down, go across?

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Granted, I shouldn't need to keep track myself - but I don't find it too much bother. Just add a note to the player. Mine take this form =

dribble left/beat offside/stay feet (whatever), date, rejected (or if accepted leave until finished and write yes/failed)

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