Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
CrazyMcgee

Aggression and Bravery

29 posts in this topic

How important are both these attributes?

I just got a CB regen will low aggression, is this gonna prevent him becoming world class?

Or will he choose his tackles better and not dive into challenges?

Opinions?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How important are both these attributes?

I just got a CB regen will low aggression, is this gonna prevent him becoming world class?

Or will he choose his tackles better and not dive into challenges?

Opinions?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just means he won't keep getting sent off. Mental attributes of youngsters tend to increase anyway with experience although I can't remember off the top of my head whether aggression does or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I would be looking for both Aggression and Bravery in any Center Backs I'm wanting to sign.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I find that if you sign players with very high aggression (18,19,20) then you're asking for trouble. They get sent off far too often, but on the other hand you probably don't want to be stuck with a player who has anything under about 10 there either.

Probably more important is positioning and anticipation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
aggression is key for my DMCs. but Flamini used to get sent off everytime he returned from suspension, 4 in a row at Athletico. i don't think his agg rating was that high, bravery might have been.

strength, positioning & concentration key for my CBs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gundo:
I would be looking for both Aggression and Bravery in any Center Backs I'm wanting to sign. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll agree with looking for high bravery for centre backs, but personally, I'm not to keen on having too high an aggression stat for them, as it could well lead to the layer giving away free kicks and penalties in dangerous positions, and increases the risk of the player getting carded, which, could be costly for centre backs, especially if they are the last man.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bravery - essential for a CB - you don't want him pulling out of challenges now do you?

Aggression - everyone seems to be interpreting this the wrong way - according to the games manual (and users in the T&T forum) this refers to a players willingness to get involved - e.g. steven gerrard will quite happily motor about the pitch and try to cover all, hence a high aggression, whilst the likes of anelka are a tad lethargic, hence low aggro.
It does relate to dirty challenges as well, but not as directly as everybody seems to be implying.

Similarly, if a CB has high aggro, it isn't an issue as long as his tackling ability is high - as high aggro will cause him to attempt more tackles.

Or at least this is my understanding of those 2 stats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bravery is way down the list of stats I look for, even more so aggression, though I might be concerned if they had a really low rating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Aggression, I tend to stay away from the extremes of, in both directions. As noted earlier, 18-19-20 Aggression seems too prone to picking up cards .. but on the other hand, I don't want a docile player, either.

Bravery, I tend to find that as long as its "reasonable", say 9+, 10+, its not an issue. Its the really timid ones (1-2-3) that have trouble. I had a goalkeeper with a Bravery of 1 and it actually looked like he was ball-shy. [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
none GK should actualy have bravery 1, lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
He was a regen, never made it out of my U-18s, but if you watched his U-18 goals conceded, you'd see things like:

Opposition striker comes in on a breakaway, keeper starts rushing out, but stops just beyond the six...

... then dives to his right as the shot goes to his left.

It [B]totally[/B] looked like he froze, panicked, and then tried to get out of the way! [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
IMO, its both, they're as important as each other.

Bravery:

Does what it says on the tin, player will challenge with no fear, maybe help other attributes I suspect such eagerness to win.

Agression:

The player is a fiery character | or | Tackles hard but fair, BUT tackles very hard.

On my basis above then obviously it would be yes, but if I had to choose between the two I'd go for bravery, its seems to be the safer option, the other feels to gun-ho for me, not in a team game I want to play with eleven players not ten.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by pyewackett:
Bravery:

Does what it says on the tin, player will challenge with no fear, maybe help other attributes I suspect such eagerness to win.

I would learn, more towards, maybe better att defensive headers say, defensive corners, will keep charging the opposition as their brave, they want to win, well.....maybe:/
Aggression:

The player is a fiery character | or | Tackles hard but fair, BUT tackles very hard.

The opposition striker would be nervous, or more like bugger I wont dribble past you it going to hurt....... Or they'll keep drawing fouls if a more talented player if to compare Defender - V - Striker
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As well as bravery, anticipation and certain amount of aggression I believe decisions to be very important when looking a centre backs! We all know how decisive Titus Bramble is and look what happens to him!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They both play an important role, particularly with DM and DCs. The model 'ággressive' player was Roy Keane. Sure, he picked up a few red cards but who can dispute what an asset he was to the cause at his prime.

I think aggression becomes a problem when combined with some hidden mentality attributes like sportsmanship. I wonder also whether a kid with high AGG can be tutored to channel it appropriately.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think that a good CB needs Bravery near to 20 but aggression is sort of just an extra that can both be bad and good so I usually look for high bravery and don't really look at aggression.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Amaroq:
He was a regen, never made it out of my U-18s, but if you watched his U-18 goals conceded, you'd see things like:

Opposition striker comes in on a breakaway, keeper starts rushing out, but stops just beyond the six...

... then dives to his right as the shot goes to his left.

It [B]totally[/B] looked like he froze, panicked, and then tried to get out of the way! [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's quality.

Brings back memories of coaching a girls football team at uni and trying to convince the GK that the ball didn't hurt lol.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how much of a hindrance high eccentricity is?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how much of a hindrance high eccentricity is? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To me its a dangerous beast, as it will depend on particular the player, maybe the being scouted will help, finding out how selsfish the player is, and little more information alwas helps.

Its a two sided coin.

The [B]Good[/B] Good side of the coin:

The defense will struggle to mark the player, as of defense splitting passes and funky step overs.

The [B]Bad[/B] side of the coin:

The player will be to selfish, wont pass the ball. Keeps running at the players gets tackled, shoots when shouldn't.

Its risk sometimes that you may need to take.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by pyewackett:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how much of a hindrance high eccentricity is? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To me its a dangerous beast, as it will depend on particular the player, maybe the being scouted will help, finding out how selsfish the player is, and little more information alwas helps.

Its a two sided coin.

The [B]Good[/B] Good side of the coin:

The defense will struggle to mark the player, as of defense splitting passes and funky step overs.

The [B]Bad[/B] side of the coin:

The player will be to selfish, wont pass the ball. Keeps running at the players gets tackled, shoots when shouldn't.

Its risk sometimes that you may need to take. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


[img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img] Eccentricity is a GOALKEEPING ONLY attribute [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]


It's an open question whether there is any real advantage. You want your 'keeper to be reliable and predictable in the main, so I prefer a low stat. Having said that, I've yet to see anyone offer any substantial evidence that a keeper behave very differently if their ECC is 20.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
From what's been said in this thread I think people seriously underestimate Aggression, it's vital for defensive midfielders (you could have a DM with 20's across the board, if he has a low aggression, he's useless) and surprisingly great for target men. What I believe it basically amounts to is the players determination to make and win challenges, essential for players you want to close down the opposition.

For center backs it's not as important as situations where they can take the ball are thrust upon them, indeed a high aggression may be a problem with players going out of position (if this is the case, turn down their closing down tact option), whereas your DMs need to actively run about making these challenges. For this reason I believe it's a good attribute for CBS to have as long as they have relatively decent pace, else it could create problems.

I'm sure it's why Alan smith was, IMO, the greatest target man in 07 (haven't tried in 08, but he looks pretty similar. Allways got av ratings of 8+ in a season in 07, and could be picked up pretty cheap because the AI wouldn't use him right and he had quite low CA/PA). I have a save on 08 in 2026 and I have an excellent 19 year old welsh Regen striker with 20 aggression and despite his other stats not being so hot, he is [I]excellent[/I] - despite having other TS's with much better jumping/firsttouch/strength/creativity he outplays them all.

[url="http://img516.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chapmanri2.jpg"]http://img516.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chapmanri2.jpg[/url]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well put TFS. Alan Smith is another example in addition to Roy Keane of a player with 20 aggression which can get him into trouble for sure, but is a vital and effective part of his game.

You're right about target men - they're up against big burley defenders and if they're going to win those knock-down headers have to out-muscle their markers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img] Eccentricity is a GOALKEEPING ONLY attribute [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]


It's an open question whether there is any real advantage. You want your 'keeper to be reliable and predictable in the main, so I prefer a low stat. Having said that, I've yet to see anyone offer any substantial evidence that a keeper behave very differently if their ECC is 20.[/QUOTE]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by blayhod:
[img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img] Eccentricity is a GOALKEEPING ONLY attribute [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]


It's an open question whether there is any real advantage. You want your 'keeper to be reliable and predictable in the main, so I prefer a low stat. Having said that, I've yet to see anyone offer any substantial evidence that a keeper behave very differently if their ECC is 20. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>[/QUOTE]

sorry forgot to write anything in[img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
so, keeper with high eccentricity actually has some positives, if he's a decent keeper otherwise, but bottom line is do you want such player between posts.

fabien barthez comes across the mind. he was a keeper with high eccentricity and still world class keeper at the time.
if, and i really mean IF the keeper is good, i don't really mind if he's eccentric as those players gets the team going. remember world cup '98? laurent blanc always came to barthez to kiss his baldy head, i bet that was part of his eccentricity, but it was building the team spirit which got hem to lift the trophy.
i bet eccentric keeper was huge part of their success.
cheers.
despite occasional slumps, a quality eccentric keeper is a real turbo engine of any team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lets not forget that CBs do need some good accelerations and decent pace as well. Remember what your AssMan usually tells you?

"We'll need quick defenders"

Ring any bells.

I agree on all the other stats that were mentioned BTW.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Just means he won't keep getting sent off. Mental attributes of youngsters tend to increase anyway with experience although I can't remember off the top of my head whether aggression does or not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
An attacker with too low bravery, say below 5 or so, is rather useless unless he is exceptionally good at long shots. Bravery is not just a defensive attribute.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TFS:
From what's been said in this thread I think people seriously underestimate Aggression, it's vital for defensive midfielders (you could have a DM with 20's across the board, if he has a low aggression, he's useless) and surprisingly great for target men. What I believe it basically damounts to is the players determination to make and win challenges, essential for players you want to close down the opposition.

For center backs it's not as important as situations where they can take the ball are thrust upon them, indeed a high aggression may be a problem with players going out of position (if this is the case, turn down their closing down tact option), whereas your DMs need to actively run about making these challenges. For this reason I believe it's a good attribute for CBS to have as long as they have relatively decent pace, else it could create problems.

I'm sure it's why Alan smith was, IMO, the greatest target man in 07 (haven't tried in 08, but he looks pretty similar. Allways got av ratings of 8+ in a season in 07, and could be picked up pretty cheap because the AI wouldn't use him right and he had quite low CA/PA). I have a save on 08 in 2026 and I have an excellent 19 year old welsh Regen striker with 20 aggression and despite his other stats not being so hot, he is [I]excellent[/I] - despite having other TS's with much better jumping/firsttouch/strength/creativity he outplays them all.

[url="http://img516.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chapmanri2.jpg"]http://img516.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chapmanri2.jpg[/url] </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
your excellent striker also has high work rate, bravery, determination and teamwork... as does Alan smith and most players with high aggression.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As above, and as a result less brave players tend to make more mistakes. I have this defender who's absolutely brilliant except his Bravery is 4 and his Aggression 11. While he functions well 75% of the time, he is responsible for every single defensive lapse I encounter. [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.