Jorgen

Hi everyone! Thanks for all the hard work everyone has done to make all these fabulous editor files. I enjoyed playing FM22 with those additions and it greatly added to my experience. A lot of mods on these forums are very good and thoroughly tested. Do you mind telling how you setup your savegame when you test something that effects the whole of Europe or even the entire FM world? I am editing club and league reputation atm. (of which I opened another topic) To rule out the effect of playable leagues getting stronger than unplayable ones, I pick only 1 minor league. But, to rule out the effect of unplayable leagues behaving only on a lower percentage comparing to active league, I should pick more leagues. So now I am confused. If you have some time, could you give me some insights in how you setup a savegame for testing purposes and how many seasons you test it? Have a good night / have a nice day!

Yeah, I did that for my first test too. Took 21 hours to holiday 7 seasons. Might do it again tonight though. would you have them all as view only, or playable? I am afraid that if I choose playable, then my 2016 laptop would freeze. I have found a list of ELO ratings of each of the European top leagues. They take the avarage ELO of the top 10 clubs of each nation and then another ELO of the European cup performances of the clubs. So I avaraged that and translated that to my ELO-to-reputation-ratio. Had to decrease it all a little to still leave some room for the UCL to be the greatest club competition in Europe. Only thing is, I couldn't find such a list for the other continents, so now the European leagues have all a higher rating, but the others haven't. Edit: Only thing is, if I load more nations, I can't see if I have a workaround for the hardcoded manager-signing-problems.

OK, Jersey can be just 1 league atm and you can always flesh it out if you have more ideas. It would be nice to have such competitions. I read on RSSSF.com that Orkney, Shetland and Scilly have their own leagues too, but I don't know if they're just part of the English and Scottish pyramids, or if they are like jersey.

But can't that happen right now then? Or do you want an extra nation level? Now we have UK → Jersey, but instead then creating UK → Crown Dependencies → Jersey with one of those levels being purely esthetic? Would it work for you to have 3 or 4 conferences, like in American sports? So at level one there are leagues for each of the nations Guernsey, Jersey, Man (and/or Alderney, Sark for example). The winner of the Murati Vase qualifies for continental football.

@themodelcitizen Great to hear that it worked out just fine! Glad to be of help. I don't understand exactly what you mean why an extinct one would work better. (might be a language thing as I am no native speaker)

And Timo started to release again too.

As I cannot edit the topic title, perhals it isn't a wrong link because it's a feeder team according to the database. Still I can't find any of this when searching on the internet. Is this a mistake in the database or something that should be?

After this I did a test without my ELO files until 2031. Used Iceland this time (don't know if that makes a lot of difference). Though the smaller nations are still present in the group phase, there are less of them and less minor nations. Without the ELO files the UCL is won solely by topteams, the Europa League won by topteams + Leicester (Torino a runner up) and the Conf.League has 1 Bulgarian win (Ludogorets) and a bunch of minor runners up. There are only 82 clubs in the db with a reputation of 7000+. Moneywise there are differences too. Now Colo Colo only has a 70M bank balance. Greek teams are still there, but with far less money and no teams from the Czech Republic or Norway won the jackpot. I compared the top managers in the world between my savegames with/without ELO. Still only the best teams sign new ones. If a team performs well and has a manager, it is still the original one. So I think my ELO files do partly what I want, but not enough. Any suggestion on what to do with the league reputation? Or what to chose as test save setup? Or another train of thought to follow?

OK, so my 2nd experiment ran a bit faster. I loaded only Slovenia (as it is a small and minor league). Ran a test until 2028. Champions League works as intended with a big variation in qualifying teams from lots of different nations. Again we see the likes of Club Brugge, Celtic, FC Kopenhagen, Celtic, Red Star Beograd, Malmö, Braga, Slovan Bratislava, Rennes, Feyenoord and Slavia Prague, Norssjaelland returning every year. Not always the same teams ofcourse, but teams like that are participating each editon of the UCL. They never reach the knock-out phase however. Opened Genie Scout to see how many teams still have a good rep: 185 are above 700. Instead of a small decrease in the previous test, we now see a small increase during this test. They are distrubuted in the following way: 14x GER, 17x ENG, 8x FRA, 11x ITA and 17x SPA. So 118 top rated teams are not from the big 5 nations. Bank balance is particularly interesting: the top 20 teams in the world are from all over the world. Viktoria Plzen (500M+), Slavia Prague, Bodo, Man Utd, Olympiakos, Sparta Prague, Molde, Shenhua, Celtic, Villa, S. Soligorsk, Ferencvaros, West Ham and Bate all own more than 300M. Colo Colo was 2nd in the world in the previous save (400M+ iirc) but is 25th in this save, still accumulating 240M+.There are now 66 teams with a bank balance above 70M and only 25 of them are from the traditional top 5 leagues. Top 7 English teams own about 2B, top 7 Chinese teams have about 1,6B. Other rich teams are from Argentina, Colombia, Hungary, Switzerland (obviously 😂) and others. Norway, Greece, Czech Republic have done very well with 2 or 3 teams each surpassing the 250M or even 400M. Those teams perform well in their leagues, reaching the CL but not the knock-out phase. So the 1st part of my project is working (participation, bank balance) but the 2nd part isn't. That could have something to do with the hardcoded restrictions for unplayable leagues, and thus the way I did this test, or for example limitiations of lower reputations leagues. Might be even both. Other restrictions are the players ofcourse, but I hoped that those teams got better ones too. IRL Ajax, Celtic and Benfica have the same problems. A few very good years, and then it's always the Mickey Mouse league again where the greats won't come. I looked at the distribution of 140+ CA players. As usual they are mostly playing in ENG, FRA, GER, ITA and SPA, followed by Portugal and The Netherlands. Distrubution of 140+ PA max 20 year old players is a bit more even, though a lot come from England and Spain. I'll have to find a way to find out where the problem lies and what to do exactly about it. Does anyone know about a website that not only rates the teams and nations in another way, but the leagues too? Preferably with ELO or something similar? And perhaps I should just have more patience. Seeing so many things already in the 1st few years is a good start.

As almost always the same few teams win the national title and almost always the same 12 out of 16 teams qualify for the knock-out phase of the UEFA Champions League, I wanted to try something else. Instead of giving teams better players/staff, a better youth academy or more money, I thought about using an ELO rating, which is used in chess as a relative skill rating system. As I am not aware of any other strength measurement index in Football Manager (other than club coëfficiënts, but I didn't want to mess with that), I decided to replace the club reputation with an ELO rating, or to be more specific: an ELO-to-reputation-ratio. I know I am hereby removing things like team history and fanbase that all accumulate in reputation, but by adding a score that says something about the overall team strength, I hope I have a nice replacement for that. Moreover, as far as I know, club reputation decides what kind of players and staff are interested in signing for the club, how big or small the sponsorship deals are and how keen other teams and players are about winning versus another team; I hope this creates a new status quo but in a more organic and real fashion. ELO and reputation are not in a 1:1 ratio with each other. I could have made something really complex but I decided on using a simple multiplier. As FM uses a 0-10.000 score I had to chose something that stays a decent amount under that cap. ELO, in theory, has no limit, but according to the different (unofficial) websites that use it for football teams each and every club and NT stays under 2200, After some calculations in Excel I came to a 4,5 multiplier. That gave me a lot of teams that stay in about the same region (lets say 50-100 above or below their original score), a few teams that stayed exactly the same, and also a lot of teams that fell down or rised quite a bit. Some even got 3000 extra points (the better teams from nations like Zimbabwe, Nicaragua, Estonia or Haiti had a big increase for example). When thinking about reputation that shouldn't fit, but as I tried to classify all teams by relative skill/strength and ELO does just that, it did not matter in a bad way I think. Instead, it makes sure that more different teams qualify for the group phases of the European cups and that these changes are happening faster then with a vanilla database. I am aware that this has flaws, or that there might be better ways to do it, but I couldn't think of another way at the moment. For these editor files, I chose all teams from each of the 6 continents that have an ELO-to-reputation-rating of above 6000. That means that I have edited 600+ teams from Europe, 250+ from South-America, Africa and Asia each; almost 250 from North-America and 50+ teams in Oceania. In an unedited 22.4 db there are 75 teams with a reputation of 7000+. In my edited db there are 176 at the start. in october 2028 there are 164 left, so most of those teams kept there high ELO-to-reputation-rating. So, what does it do, or what do I hope to get from it: A more dynamic range of high rep teams, leading to more diversity in rich teams, transfers, league winners and continental winners. At the least I hope that the first decade in football feels a bit different, but nonetheless real and stable. The richest teams in the world are now RB Salzburg, Colo Colo, Wolves, Bayern and Rangers. The Chanpions League group phase has 32 clubs, who mostly come from the top 10 nations. In my test save (I loaded an afwul lot of nations, including ones made by Dave and Timo and set them all at view only) the following teams qualified: 21/22: Zalgiris, Club Brugge, Viktoria Plzen, Trabzon, TNS, FC Kopenhagen, Shakhtar, Dinamo Kiyv 22/23: Club Brugge, Maccabi Haifa, Dinamo Kiyv, Rennes, TNS, FC Kopenhagen, Rangers, RB Salzburg, PAFOS, Shakhtar 23/24: Real Sociedad, Fenerbahçe, Rangers, Shakhtar, Belenenses, RB Salzburg, Iraklis, Young Boys Bern, Slovacko, Slovan Bratislava, Admira 24/25: Shakhtar, Lillestrom, Real Sociedad, Slovacko, Shakhtar Soligors, AEK, Frankfurt, Club Brugge, Rangers, Basel, Feyenoord 25/26: Rangers, Trabzon, Astra Giurgiu, Shakhtar, LIlle, Basel, Farense, AA Gent, Cucaricki, Midtjylland, Feyenoord 26/27: PAFOS, Caen, Galatasaray, St. Gallen, Dinamo Kiyv, Anderlecht, Kavala, Gaziantep, TNS, AIK Topola, Feyenoord 27/28: Dinamo Kiyv, AIK Topola, PAFOS, Zalgiris, Gaziantep, Farense, Thun. D. Chaves, Astra Giurgiu, Cercle Brugge 28/29: Real Sociedad, Servette, Trabzon, RB Salzburg, Midtjylland, Cercle Brugge, Farense, Lille, Ajaccio, Shakhtar, Fenerbahçe, Celta, Slovacko This looks promising! Of those teams, Farense, Feyenoord, Frankfurt and Shakhtar managed to reach the knock-out phase, but then struggled. The UEFA Champions League winners are all from the top-20 teams, but that is probably hardcoded for unplayable nations (I only have The Netherlands as playable). The Europa League is won by big teams, or medium teams from the big nations. The Conference League is the most interesting with Cucaricki and Granada winning and 4 new runners-up: Omonoi, St. Gallen, D. Chaves and Novara. The CAF Champions League was mostly a party for Egyptian, Tunisian and South-African clubs the past decades. Now teams from Sudan, and Zambia are winning too. The AFC Champions League was mostly won by Saudi-Arabian, Japan and South-Korean teams. Now teams from UAE and Iran are getting there and sometimes even winning. The CONCACAF Champions League was won by Mexican teams in 100% of the time and only 4 out of 12 matches had a contender from the MLS. Now the final has a MLS contendor in 50% of the time and 2 non-Mexican winners: Jamaica and USA The Copa Libertadores had only 3 winners and 7 runners-up outside ARG/BRA in the last 2 decades With the new setup it is 0 winners and 1 runner-up. Those 2 nations are by far the strongest of the continent, just as Mexico in North-America. The OFC Champions League was almost always won by Australian or New-Zealand teams. Now every nation can win and N-Z teams have to work for it. Other than this, one other thing that I really hope to be able to change in my savegame is which teams can win the European Cups when nations are unplayable. It is one thing to have a better reputation to generate more money and get better players, but FM has some kind of hardcoded rules about which teams from unplayable (unloaded or view only) nations keep signing new managers. In previous versions it was the case that only the about 20 best teams in the world kept signing new managers. Any team outside those teams, did never sign a new manager. Teams without a manager do not reach a European final. Let alone win it. Ever. I have seen some YT videos where FM-youtubers simulate 50, 100 or evern 250 years of FM23 and in almost al cases, this still happens. I don't know why sometimes Icelandic or Swedisch teams win the Champions League, if they are not playable, but in almost every other instance that someone plays or simulates that far in the future, only the big 20 teams + the teams from playable nations can reach those finals and win those cups. My own experiences with FM18 (86 seasons), FM20 (10+) and FM22 (10+) is that it still works the same. I hope that this file can make a change in that too. Or that there is any other workaround to that. To know if this helps, I have to simulate with another league setup, as this big simulation took 21 hours to calculate and find all information. More in depth about this problem: I hope anyone can use it for a more unique savegame. Let me know what you think about the idea and if you have suggestons to improve the organic diversity of the game or to improve the teams that can win without their league being loaded. I hope I can finish the last part of this edit tomorrow (some missing teams around the world and last 100 or so from Europe) NB I am not a native speaker. I am sorry if I say something curious/strange/wrong or have some bad spelling/grammer.

Sounds very good @themodelcitizen 😊😊👍👍 Hope the way everything feels when playing, is exactly as you hoped for Edit: yes a NT with Man and Guernsey and Jersey sounds strange, but when you call it Crown Dependencies or Channel Islands it seems a bit better

The reason I thought about moving all N-I (teams, cities, regions, people, etc) to Ireland and then renaming N-I to Jersey (or Guernsey, or Channel Islands) was especially done for keeping all AFC, UEFA and GB things intact. So not really a new nation, just a renamed one. No problems with Kazakhstan (NT and teams) not playing all matches in Asia, no problems with coëfficiënts for UEFA and such, and hopefully a way to use the Jersey (or Guernsey, or Channel Islands people) in the GB teams. The part of a dual nationality was just an extra train of thought. Could people be Channel Islander and Jerseyan (is that a word?) or not. I have no idea how the Brexit is hardcoded, but with just renaming N-I it should work as it should, as the UID of the nation is still te same, I guess. This way there is no need for a new/extra nation, just a renamed one, which hopefully prevents most of the problems/workarounds I read about here when people create new ones.

@Daveincid Oops, I have both of your realism topics in my bookmarks and typed my question in the wrong one. Will send you a PM about the game setup. Thanks.

Thanks for your answers. This probably will be a very difficult task without any experience with creating/editing competitions, but I hope I'll be able to do it.

Take care! Take your time.

@themodelcitizen Yes. If you set every Northern Irish player/staff nationality as irish and after that rename N-I to the new British nation of your liking that could do the trick, I hope. It leaves everything else intact, without the necessity of using an extinct nation or moving a nation like Kazakhstan to Asia. I have almonst no experience in this part of the editor, so I really don't know if this works as easy as it sounds, but to me it sounds logical. I didn't find a Jersey league, but instead this Isle of Man league You could also chose to have somekind of conferenced league like the MLS, where teams from Guernsey and Jersey each play in their own conference and the winners face each other in the Upton Park Trophy. Each Crown Dependency has its own cup too. Guernsey FA Cup in Guernsey and Le Riche Cup in Jersey. If I am correct there is only one football club in Alderney (which plays in the Guernsey pyramid) but there is a special tournament for Guernsey + Jersey + Alderney named Muratti Vase The combined nation could be named Channel Islands and the clubs then participate in the UEFA and FIFA competitons and I hope the UK Olympic team is still working too. If you'd like the Isle of Man league could be incorporated too. I don't know if both nations can exist at the same time. That players from all islands play in the Channel Islands national team, but that they can have a 2nd nationality that specifies which island they're from. So a player has both Channels Islands en Jersey or Channel Islands and Guernsey as nationalities. (like players from Spain can be Basque too, but there is no Basque national team.)

@krakonico Thanks for answering. 1. So won't it be faster then? There are a lot of competitions with quirky rules like the MLS (USA) (draft, wages, All-Star, etc), the Eerste Divisie (Netherlands) (period champions) or Bulgaria (play-offs structure). If you can copy every rule at once maybe you can copy all special rules as well. 2. Oh, that's a pity. I envision a league pyramid with as many strange and quirky rules as possible. Where for esample the number 5 in the premier league gets swapped with the number 10 in the Championship. Or even better, wherea Premier League club gets swapped with a team in a league 2 or more levels below that. And where each level has it's own unique rules that are not at the other levels.

Wouldn't it be easier to just add all Northern Ireland teams to the Irish league and replace the Northern Ireland teams by teams/leagues that are from the British Crown Dependencies? OK, you'd have to make 2 (or more) new structures, but it would leave everything else intact and as the Crown Dependencies are not represented yet in the DB but one team from Jersey and Guernsey each are playing in the English pyramid.

Is is possible to copy and paste competitions to another nation/pyramid? And then just change the specified nation and promotion/relegation so that it fits in the league structure? And can you make it so promotion/relegation spots make teams move to an entirely other nation/league structure? Or to a division that is not one up or one down, but 2 (or more) up/down?

@MorrisseyMuse Take care! Hope you'lll get well soon

@ SI Staff: I know the beta is only just available but I have a question about new managers in long term saves. In inactive and view-only leagues only the absolute best of the best teams sign new managers. All other teams stay without a manager after sacking or retirement. Clubs without a manager could never win the Champions League or Europa League. This was the case in FM18 en FM20, but perhaps in more versions. Can someone confirm that this is still in the game / has been tweaked / is programmed out for FM23?

Thanks for all your hard work @pr0

Probably because Australia is already in the game

I'm using your KASHIMIR 451 TH P95 V2 P97EC Base P341. Just before my savegame got corrupted, I managed to do a 120 matches unbeaten streak in the league (Stallion Laguna, Philippines) which is 5 complete seasons without losing. There were losses in the Asian CL and occasionally in the group stage of the domestic cup, but all in all, this was just awesome. The unbeaten streak continues, but the savegame probably can't. I am going to find another challenge for a new savegame, but definately with your tactics. Might be just the same one. So thank you very much for your great work @knap!