Football Manager Wiki

[Dreaded Walrus]

Alright guys. As a test, I created this. This contains all the stuff that would be needed. A link to the WP article, an acknowledgement of the authors, and a mention that the FMWiki article is also licensed under the same terms. Of course, if you were to go down this road, then you would need to actually want to license your articles under the same terms as WP. In addition, the link to the GFDL in that version links to an externally-hosted copy, whereas your version would need to be hosted on the same server.

I added a variable which allows it to be used both on articles which have the same name on FMWiki and WP (such as Anthony Pilkington (WP), and those which have a different title, such as Brad Jones (WP).

An example of the template as it would appear on both articles would be here for Anthony Pilkington, and here for Brad Jones.

Currently, for testing purposes, the template is located at User:Dreaded Walrus/sandbox, but if you decided to go down this route you would probably move the template to, for example, Template:fromwp, then for any article which has the exact same pagename on WP (such as the Anthony Pilkington article from above, all you would need to enter is:

{{fromwp}} (you could even put it at template:fwp or something, to make it even shorter at {{fwp}})

If you use it on an article which has a different pagename on WP (such as Brad Jones, which is "Brad Jones (footballer)" on WP), then all you would need to type is:

{{fromwp|ARTICLE NAME HERE}}

or, for Brad Jones:

{{fromwp|Brad Jones (footballer)}}.

As I have already said, you would need to talk amongst yourselves to work out what you want to do, whether you want to have WP content, which would require licensing your own content under the same terms, or whether you want only 100% original content.

Also, the version I have created is by no means final so feel free to make edits to it to make it look prettier or whatever you guys want.

[Dreaded Walrus]

Thanks for that. I take it I can use the template on other pages now, yes?

Well, you can do, but it's probably best for you and the other owners of the site (if there are any others) to discuss it first to see if you want to go down this route. In addition, you won't want to transclude the entire template with all the code (as you have been doing here for example), as this would require major work whenever anyone made any changes to the template itself. Also, it would not work on pages which are at different titles on Wikipedia (such as Brad Jones). The best way to include the template is mentioned in the post above, and you would need to move it from my sandbox to whichever page you wanted it at (such as Template:fromwp, or Template:fwp).

And the main thing that would need to be done to comply with the GFDL which I cannot do for myself is you would need to host a copy of the GFDL which is currently linked on the template on your own server, and then we can modify the template to link direct to that.

Edit: Oh, and you would also need to be willing to license FMWiki under the same terms as Wikipedia (as in anyone can reuse or modify FMWiki content for any reason (including commercial), so long as they provide attribution). That's the other thing you would need to do, which might not be appealing.

[ahmufcwafc]

Advantages:

- We only have about 5 of us working on the wiki regularly, and doing this helps us get more content on the site.

- Plenty of information available to users of the wiki.

Disadvantages:

- In doing this, we perhaps come across as a poor relative of wikipedia.

- Some player profiles don't have any FM related info on the player.

- By looking at the wiki statistics, the player profiles get the lowest amount of views - then again, that could be down to the quantity of profiles available from the site.

At the moment it's my opinion that we need to change the way player profiles are done. Instead of taking all of the information from wikipedia, we should only be doing profiles on players that we have FM knowledge of - much like SCIAG suggested a few weeks back. Maybe instead of adding a heapload of profiles every day, FM related information could be added to current pages whenever possible? Just my opinion, feel free to disagree with me - I'm not going to be the one adding FM related content to player profiles as that really isn't my strong area.

[arsenal_2111]

Dreaded Walrus, thanks for the work you have done here, much appriciated.

I think I've already put my opinion across enough for player profiles,whilst I agree that having a lot of pages is nice I think we need information on them on FM in there.

Personally I would have

- Screenshot

- Personal Life

- Brief real life career (maybe screenshot of history?)

- The player in FM.

Obviously not all pages would have extensive information on each player, but it would be better this way. I'll make a new page for Tamas Priskin to give an example of what I think would be best.

K, I've done the Priskin page, thats what I think pages should try and be like. Obviously for some lower league players there would be less information on FM, but personally I think quality and suitability over quantity (not quite as catchy ) as we should try and develop as many player profiles as we can rather than adding new ones for the time being.

[SCIAG]

Dreaded Walrus, thanks for the work you have done here, much appriciated.

I think I've already put my opinion across enough for player profiles,whilst I agree that having a lot of pages is nice I think we need information on them on FM in there.

Personally I would have

- Screenshot

- Personal Life

- Brief real life career (maybe screenshot of history?)

- The player in FM.

Obviously not all pages would have extensive information on each player, but it would be better this way. I'll make a new page for Tamas Priskin to give an example of what I think would be best.

I agree with that. I also think we need notability guidelines much like they have on WP. I think it would be best to do these with regards to PA. Anybody with a PA above, say, 150, can have a page, including -8s and above. Furthermore, anybody with a noted outstanding feature, such as several high physical attributes, or starting in the first team squad of a team in a certain standard of league, or being Mascio, can have a page.

[arsenal_2111]

I wouldn't agree that there should be specifications of who warrants a page or not. That way you are making fmwiki elitest, only supplying the information for those who play in the higher leagues.

Elitist is probably the wrong word, actually. But I'm sure you get what I mean.

In my opinion anyone who is going to write up a full article about a player should be able to write about who they want, standard of player regardless.

[JJay]

I agree with the above

1000 images left to upload - on a faster connection though so should be done within the hour

[SCIAG]

http://www.footballmanagerwiki.co.uk/index.php?title=Alexey_Smertin needs to be moved to "players". Smertin the politician is not included in FM, Smertin the player is (just not in 09)

[arsenal_2111]

Thanks for the update JJay

http://www.footballmanagerwiki.co.uk/index.php?title=Alexey_Smertin needs to be moved to "players". Smertin the politician is not included in FM, Smertin the player is (just not in 09)

Done, cheers EDIT: Undone, he's retired

Btw, I've updated the Priskin page

[ssestig]

Liking the page on Priskin Jammy. That's the way forward I reckon. Nothing against the other suggestions on the player profiles but that looks the best that i've seen so far.

[arsenal_2111]

Thanks

Do peopleagree that we should try to change the articles we have before adding new player ones in for now?

Even if we only get a few changed it is best to have some original ones imo.

[SCIAG]

I wouldn't agree that there should be specifications of who warrants a page or not. That way you are making fmwiki elitest, only supplying the information for those who play in the higher leagues.

Elitist is probably the wrong word, actually. But I'm sure you get what I mean.

In my opinion anyone who is going to write up a full article about a player should be able to write about who they want, standard of player regardless.

I agree with you to an extent. Good lower league players should be allowed pages, but including pages on players who aren't going to get in a playable team is backwards working at this stage. We don't yet have a profile page for Frank Lampard, for example. Once we have an established base, we can work our way down the ladder.

Another point to consider- do we fully update every page after a new release? At the moment the little genuine player info we have is based almost entirely on FM09. What about when the nnext game comes out, or even a new patch?

[SCIAG]

Thanks for the update JJay

Done, cheers EDIT: Undone, he's retired

Btw, I've updated the Priskin page

He's retired, but not in the latest game. Smertin was in 07 and possibly 08. Either we move him to a new cat, "retired persons" (Vivean-Foe could go there too), or we keep them in "players" (as it's "FM Wiki", not "FM09 Wiki). Either way, Smertin (and MVF) aren't in any version of FM as a non-player...

[JJay]

Could put them in both Players and a new Retired category - or just a Retired category would suffice

[ssestig]

I would say in both sections.

Does everyone think that we should include PA numbers on the wiki? I know that some people that use the forums (eg. the LLaMa forum) do not like to read/know the PAs of players.

[JJay]

http://vanishingpointwiki.com/wiki/MediaWiki:Spoiler - Something like that ssestig would probably be best to implement if you were thinking about doing CAs and PAs

[pnefc22]

I'm back, guys

Had a lot of work with exams and coursework recently but now, that I only have one exam left, I thought that I would make my return here.

I have been following the thread whilst working though so, I understand about the wii being down and on the player profiles section, I think that they should be original and therefore, not allowed to be copied by other sites (other fm wiki sites)

I will get back working on the wiki soon, but I do have a lot of coursework and one exam left so, I may not be doing loads until around the 23rd.

[ssestig]

http://vanishingpointwiki.com/wiki/MediaWiki:Spoiler - Something like that ssestig would probably be best to implement if you were thinking about doing CAs and PAs

That's great JJay. Exactly what I was thinking of. Applied to the Simon Church page and just about to do the Pato page.

[JJay]

23rd is my birthday so you best be back for that

I've added the spoiler code to the wiki should you opt to use it - let me know if its of any use. To use it you need to surround the text you're using with <spoiler> and </spoiler>

[SCIAG]

http://www.footballmanagerwiki.co.uk/index.php?title=Anthony_Vanden_Borre

Needs fixing

[ahmufcwafc]

http://www.footballmanagerwiki.co.uk/index.php?title=Anthony_Vanden_Borre

Needs fixing

Yeah, there's about 20 or so pages with database errors around since the software upgrade was made. Is it possible to fix it JJay?

[JJay]

Yeah I'll get around to fixing those - it is on my things to do - bit hectic this week as its the mrs' birthday today!

With regards to the spoiler tags I've edited the colours on the box instead of the bright red to this - http://www.footballmanagerwiki.co.uk/index.php?title=Wikiupdate

Edit: Could somebody make a list of the broken profiles and PM them to me so I can look at the cause for it - I've got a feeling its due to the ParserFunctions (which added all the accents etc.) which has messed links up

60 images to go

[arsenal_2111]

I've done the Fabregas page like Priskin, have a look if you want. I'lm going to do a couple more like it whenever I can, so make sure you write down the names of pages that are original content please:)

JJay, those spoilers are much better, the fmwiki colours

[JJay]

All images uploaded now

[SCIAG]

I have added original content to:

Simon Church

Hal Robson-Kanu

Gylfi Sigurdsson

A.Hleb

Alexis Sanchez

Alexandre Pato

Kevin Doyle is completely original.

[Dreaded Walrus]

Another point to consider- do we fully update every page after a new release? At the moment the little genuine player info we have is based almost entirely on FM09. What about when the nnext game comes out, or even a new patch?

It's certainly something that would need thinking about. Player stats are certainly an important part of information about a player, one would assume, but creating new screenshots every year would be laborious, to say the least. Creating one for each new patch would probably be overkill, even though stats often do change with the data updates.

I'm of the opinion that any screenshots should be taken at the start of the game too, rather than after having had the players developed. Perhaps for players which start off rubbish but advance to become great, then a "developed" screenshot could be added within the spoiler field too, I suppose.

But if you do choose to include screens in the long-term, it's definitely something that needs discussing. Hell, it's probably possible to create a bot to automate the task each time a new game comes out for each player there's an article about, but it would require a lot of programming know-how, and processing power obviously for the task itself.

[SCIAG]

I knew that bots could do simple tasks (I have a WP account myself) but I never thought they could do something as external as that

[hamilton162]

I've added a CSE page as requested by Alan in the Wiki Forums and i am also working on a graphics pack one

[Dreaded Walrus]

I knew that bots could do simple tasks (I have a WP account myself) but I never thought they could do something as external as that

Well it's all about how you program it. For example, on WP there is a bot which checks the text of any new article to see if it is likely to be a copyright violation of an existing page somewhere else on the net, and tags it for speedy deletion if so with a link to the page it is likely to be a copy of. Then an admin can check if it's copied (and if the text it's copied from is copyrighted or released as free content) and either delete it or remove the tag.

It wouldn't be impossible to write a bot that runs on a powerful computer that, once a new game is released, looks for all player articles on FMwiki, then does a search for each of those players within the game (this is why it would need to be a powerful computer, to be able to load enough players to avoid having to do the task multiple times with different leagues loaded), take a screenshot of their profile, upload it to the wiki, and then add the new image to the article.

It's just whether there's any programmers amongst us and anyone with the computer to run it (and the willingness to pretty much give up their computer for a couple of days around the launch of each new game).

So it's not impossible, just rather impractical. You could technically write a bot to do ANY repetitive task.

[ahmufcwafc]

I've added a CSE page as requested by Alan in the Wiki Forums and i am also working on a graphics pack one

Thanks. Here is the current graphics packs page, maybe you could add to that and/or replace some of the content already there?

[hamilton162]

That's what i am doing gradually Alan No problem either, it was simple to create the CSE Page

[JJay]

I've fixed a couple of profiles now - what other profiles have been showing errors?

[ahmufcwafc]

I believe it just affected all pages that have titles with accents on them.

[arsenal_2111]

I had a look in the Wanted Pages page, and there was a page for Serie A in there. So I made one, but have just checked and there is already one there.

I'll make one Serie B instead, but which one?

1

2

[ahmufcwafc]

Maybe a mix of two, taking as much info as possible out of both? You made both of them so it mightn't be too difficult.

[arsenal_2111]

Maybe a mix of two, taking as much info as possible out of both? You made both of them so it mightn't be too difficult.

No, the first one I made has been completely redone by Jod.

EDIT: But still, I'll mix them around.

[JJay]

Yeah - got any more that need fixing?

[ahmufcwafc]

http://www.footballmanagerwiki.co.uk/index.php?title=Nemanja_Vidi%C3%83%E2%80%9E%C3%A2%E2%82%AC%C2%A1

http://www.footballmanagerwiki.co.uk/index.php?title=Luka_Modri%C3%83%E2%80%9E%C3%A2%E2%82%AC%C2%A1

http://www.footballmanagerwiki.co.uk/index.php?title=Przemys%C3%83%E2%80%A6%C3%A2%E2%82%AC%C5%A1aw_Ka%C3%83%E2%80%A6%C3%82%C2%BAmierczak

http://www.footballmanagerwiki.co.uk/index.php?title=Kak%C3%83%C6%92%C3%82%C2%A1

http://www.footballmanagerwiki.co.uk/index.php?title=M%C3%83%C6%92%C3%82%C2%A1rton_F%C3%83%C6%92%C3%82%C2%BCl%C3%83%C6%92%C3%82%C2%B6p

http://www.footballmanagerwiki.co.uk/index.php?title=Petr_%C3%83%E2%80%9E%C3%85%E2%80%99ech

http://www.footballmanagerwiki.co.uk/index.php?title=Kriszti%C3%83%C6%92%C3%82%C2%A1n_N%C3%83%C6%92%C3%82%C2%A9meth

http://www.footballmanagerwiki.co.uk/index.php?title=Zden%C3%83%E2%80%9E%C3%A2%E2%82%AC%C2%BAk_Grygera

http://www.footballmanagerwiki.co.uk/index.php?title=Zolt%C3%83%C6%92%C3%82%C2%A1n_Hars%C3%83%C6%92%C3%82%C2%A1nyi

http://www.footballmanagerwiki.co.uk/index.php?title=Barcelona

http://www.footballmanagerwiki.co.uk/index.php?title=CSKA_Moscow

http://www.footballmanagerwiki.co.uk/index.php?title=Internazionale

http://www.footballmanagerwiki.co.uk/index.php?title=Tottenham_Hotspur

[JJay]

Fixed those ones now too

[ahmufcwafc]

I'm still getting database errors for all of them.

[pnefc22]

Don't know if this is on the list above but I am getting a database error for this one:

Edwin's page

[arsenal_2111]

Don't know if this is on the list above but I am getting a database error for this one:

Edwin's page

Same for me, that's Edwin van der Sar in case someone didn't click

[JJay]

I found the underlying cause which was the CharSet as first believed - but found the actual setting - should stop this happening in future

Check for errors now

Edit: You may need to move current pages with odd characters to the correct page as I did not want to run a script on the database to do this automatically incase it messed up

[JJay]

If you see the articles on the Main Page changing then be aware that it's me playing about

[JJay]

I have changed the Selected Article to be a featured article each month. At present this is manual but in future could be automated if it felt appropriate.

Also - some feedback on whether an integrated IRC applet would be of any use for the wiki would be useful

[JJay]

I have changed the Selected Article to be a featured article each month. At present this is manual but in future could be automated if it felt appropriate.

Also - some feedback on whether an integrated IRC applet would be of any use for the wiki would be useful - http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:IRC_Chat

[arsenal_2111]

I have changed the Selected Article to be a featured article each month. At present this is manual but in future could be automated if it felt appropriate.

Also - some feedback on whether an integrated IRC applet would be of any use for the wiki would be useful - http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:IRC_Chat

Do we have a choice what to change it to? It'd be a shame to have a not so good page on there, or a page copied from Wiki. Thanks for adding it tho

What is that IRC thing? I don't really understand it

If you see the articles on the Main Page changing then be aware that it's me playing about

Shocking

[peter-evo]

So please now read on about everything Football Manager you will ever need to know!

Who put that? What was wrong with what I put?

[ahmufcwafc]

Who put that? What was wrong with what I put?

Jammy changed it around a bit, just to freshen up the main page a bit. Surely nothing wrong with that?

[peter-evo]

Nope, just didn't think it made much sense. The sentence that is.