Wage rise demands are ruining a small club which won the champions league

[madeirabhoy]

Maybe it's a coming together of a perfect storm of situations, but then surely a lot of football manager careers are taking a small club to glory. well mine is turning into a nightmare and ill probably have to quit the game because I won the champions league.

 

Took Maritimo back where they belong in the Portuguese top league. Decent finish the first year, next year 3rd and europa league. then 2nd and champions league. next season won league and CL last 16. last season everything landed right. a few €5m transfers to augment the guys who had cost buttons and I won the treble, league, CL, cup.

 

now some of the guys are on decent wages now. 20-60k. Start of season and every single day without fail I get a player complaining. wants a wage rise. I say okay. and they want 90k a week, rising from 40k. can't afford it so say no. then they complain that ive broken my promise. then half the squad are annoyed as im treating the player badly. 

 

next day. another player. another demand I can't afford. another squad meeting.

 

Ive got a local born player I only signed because he's local born, never going to get a game for us Henrique Araujo. just signed him as backup and because he's Madeira and in real life he'd do us a turn. anyway he's been out on loan where he's hardly kicked a ball. he's on 7k a week. he wants a meeting about new salary. okay how much... 56k a week. 

 

none of the players are asking to leave. no offers for any of them. but every one of them wants quadruple his wages and when I don't or can't give it the whole dressing room is in uproar. which is bollocks anyway in general as no football dressing room has ever stuck up for a team mate wanting a wage rise. 

[fc.cadoni]

Since they bring success to the club (reputation & money), for them (reputation and CA increase); it's logic to ask for more money. Giving a promise which you can't make it, you shoot your own legs. It's also makes a logic someone which earns 7K in smaller reputation club; you came for him, to ask for higher salary (from the current one).

[madeirabhoy]

7 minutes ago, fc.cadoni said:

Since they bring success to the club (reputation & money), for them (reputation and CA increase); it's logic to ask for more money. Giving a promise which you can't make it, you shoot your own legs. It's also makes a logic someone which earns 7K in smaller reputation club; you came for him, to ask for higher salary (from the current one).

but you don't know you can't make the promise.. they ask to look at. new contract, you say yes. then they ask for a crazy amount of money you can't afford to give. 

 

And sorry I didnt explain. Araujo wasn't getting 7k in a smaller reputation club, thats what I was giving him. our wage bill is about €45m which is basically the champions league money as our income from 11k fans paying buttons, so the agents know we don't have more than we are paying. in real life players might ask to leave, but a whole team worth of players going in huffs but not asking to leave is unrealistic.

 

Not as unrealistic as the tv money ...

 

 

[starbugg]

I'm not surprised they are asking for better contracts, they are CL Winners.

Have you asked the Board for more resources, or do they seem to be happy to see the club go into decline and not grow with your success?

I would sell the complaining players if they are affecting morale that much and invest the money in new players and start again.

Failing that, I would move on to a more ambitious club

[Andy1979]

The trick is to have another wonder kid to step on every 2 or 3 years until you have plenty of money. I'm sure the players that have won the cl will fetch good money. Sell a couple sign some good youth and put some money in wages to keep the rest happy. I had years of doing that in my doncaster save I'm playing ATM.

[Overmars]

A similar thing happened to me. Half of my team wants a <100% wage increase after winning the Europa League. I have regular starters asking for almost 10% of the total wage budget. I can't keep a full squad if I give them that money.

I would actually be fine with this scenario if we could react appropriately and avoid a purely adversarial interaction. We should be able to reject the wage increase with the reasoning, "The club cannot afford it." The player should understand but still want to leave the club. You then work on an exit plan (waiting for the end of the contract or pursuing an immediate transfer). Teammates should stay out of it.

I feel like FM pushes us into these unavoidable hostile interactions which produce unrealistic outcomes. If the player wants to leave the club, fine, but spare us the vitriol because our hands are tied when it comes to what the Board gives us.

[starbugg]

2 hours ago, Overmars said:

I would actually be fine with this scenario if we could react appropriately and avoid a purely adversarial interaction. We should be able to reject the wage increase with the reasoning, "The club cannot afford it."

This option does come up now and again, and when I use it the player usually accepts the situation and becomes happy again.

If I remember rightly, the "The Club can not afford a new contract at this time" option is a choice when the player wanting a new contract is a squad player, or below, I could be wrong.

[madeirabhoy]

6 hours ago, Overmars said:

A similar thing happened to me. Half of my team wants a <100% wage increase after winning the Europa League. I have regular starters asking for almost 10% of the total wage budget. I can't keep a full squad if I give them that money.

I would actually be fine with this scenario if we could react appropriately and avoid a purely adversarial interaction. We should be able to reject the wage increase with the reasoning, "The club cannot afford it." The player should understand but still want to leave the club. You then work on an exit plan (waiting for the end of the contract or pursuing an immediate transfer). Teammates should stay out of it.

I feel like FM pushes us into these unavoidable hostile interactions which produce unrealistic outcomes. If the player wants to leave the club, fine, but spare us the vitriol because our hands are tied when it comes to what the Board gives us.

exactly. well put. the players dont want to leave, havent asked to leave, and there have been no bids. they just want to spend their whole week having group meetings with me about how unfair i am to (insert a different player every day).

 

[madeirabhoy]

20 hours ago, starbugg said:

I'm not surprised they are asking for better contracts, they are CL Winners.

Have you asked the Board for more resources, or do they seem to be happy to see the club go into decline and not grow with your success?

I would sell the complaining players if they are affecting morale that much and invest the money in new players and start again.

Failing that, I would move on to a more ambitious club

its not about ambition, we are already paying close on €50m a year on wages for a club that has a 13k stadium with fans paying buttons. My season ticket in real life is €48 a year.  Traditionally we are a lower middle of table team with a wage budget of a couple of million a year. We have about €50m in the bank but we need that as just one bad season would mean no europe the next season and that amount would be gone on already promised wages with a firesale of players before the season after.

the way the game is, since no one is asking about leaving, then im sure the first time i try to sell one of them, they will be complaining about that and we will have team meetings about unhappiness twice a day rather than once.

 

what i did notice last night is the very unrealistic but so far maybe successful answer. with a couple of players i basically treated them like dirt. when they asked for a wage rise i responded with 'okay ill sell you' or thereabouts, and they backed off. when the press asked me about a player unhappy, i went for the most negative comment, throwing my player under the bus publically, and all of a sudden the player is no longer unhappy. its so illogical its a shame there isnt a way to bring in a firing squad to the team meetings as it would probably boost morale. 

 

 

[starbugg]

I was offering advice based on my experiences of the game.

All I can say is many a team in history has destroyed its self after being successful....... and many Managers have had a reputation of being hard on their players, boots aimed at players foreheads and all that.

So I don't think it is that illogical and unrealistic, wouldn't it be nice if all games played just how we wanted them to and didn't pose any challenge.

[GreenTriangle]

15 hours ago, madeirabhoy said:

(...) with a couple of players i basically treated them like dirt. when they asked for a wage rise i responded with 'okay ill sell you' or thereabouts, and they backed off. when the press asked me about a player unhappy, i went for the most negative comment, throwing my player under the bus publically, and all of a sudden the player is no longer unhappy. its so illogical its a shame there isnt a way to bring in a firing squad to the team meetings as it would probably boost morale.

You can do this when your reputation is higher than the reputation of your players. Not on other occasions. And from the fact that you didn't receive countless offers for your players, it follows that their reputation is still relatively low, despite the fact that they just won the CL. This means that before winning the CL they had an even lower reputation. By winning CL, their reputation has increased significantly, and that's exactly the reason why they demand much higher salaries. Normally, the game does not have such problems because usually the CL winner has players who already have a relatively high reputation

[MichaelNevo]

This is just the life of a small club... You can't expect the celebrations to go on too long after winning big, there's always a price! That's where you need to be pro-active and sell the moaners, but also have his successor already lined up.

If you thought winning the Champions League meant that you would do the same every season, but didn't have a plan for it, you're going to quit the game as you said.

[madeirabhoy]

On 17/04/2024 at 21:55, starbugg said:

I was offering advice based on my experiences of the game.

All I can say is many a team in history has destroyed its self after being successful....... and many Managers have had a reputation of being hard on their players, boots aimed at players foreheads and all that.

So I don't think it is that illogical and unrealistic, wouldn't it be nice if all games played just how we wanted them to and didn't pose any challenge.

 

I appreciate your comments and opinions, but it's not realistic to have spent at least a fortnight of group meetings every single day because every player wants a wage rise we can't afford. I am not exaggerating, it was at least that many. and every one of them bringing a meeting of fellow players. Not one lead to a transfer request. none of that is realistic. 

 

however as I said in my other post, im taking advantage of the game being similarly unrealistic when it comes to treating the players like dirt. im going for the worst option in private chats, and slating the players in the press and its working. One poor lad has just come to me and politely asked if he could go on loan. I don't want to be short with so many tournaments for such a small club so I immediately slap him with 'if you don't want to be here ill sell you permanently' and he immediately shat himself and apologised. 

[madeirabhoy]

2 hours ago, MichaelNevo said:

This is just the life of a small club... You can't expect the celebrations to go on too long after winning big, there's always a price! That's where you need to be pro-active and sell the moaners, but also have his successor already lined up.

If you thought winning the Champions League meant that you would do the same every season, but didn't have a plan for it, you're going to quit the game as you said.

its really not though.and no the players don't want to leave. 

[turnip]

If you're a small team, you have to sell players. And I don't mean 1 or 2 players, I mean you have to find at least £30-£40m of players to sell each season. Your money from being in the Champions League should be peanuts compared to the money you get from selling players.

Once you're in that position, you're ready to win the Champions League and deal with the fallout. Otherwise, you are ****ed. 

 

In real life, every time Porto/Sporting/Benfica do well, their squad gets abused by big teams swooping in and signing anyone good. The difference - it sounds like - is that those clubs have a conveyor belt of players coming through the youth squads, who can replace the players they sell. And you don't. 

Your club's reputation has gone through the roof because you won the biggest - and hardest - club competition in the world.

Jordan Henderson burned and salted what was a very good reputation with football fans for the promise of filthy lucre; it's not unrealistic that your mediocre players want to cash in on their success. 

[madeirabhoy]

30 minutes ago, turnip said:

If you're a small team, you have to sell players. And I don't mean 1 or 2 players, I mean you have to find at least £30-£40m of players to sell each season. Your money from being in the Champions League should be peanuts compared to the money you get from selling players.

Once you're in that position, you're ready to win the Champions League and deal with the fallout. Otherwise, you are ****ed. 

 

In real life, every time Porto/Sporting/Benfica do well, their squad gets abused by big teams swooping in and signing anyone good. The difference - it sounds like - is that those clubs have a conveyor belt of players coming through the youth squads, who can replace the players they sell. And you don't. 

Your club's reputation has gone through the roof because you won the biggest - and hardest - club competition in the world.

Jordan Henderson burned and salted what was a very good reputation with football fans for the promise of filthy lucre; it's not unrealistic that your mediocre players want to cash in on their success. 

no the difference is, no one is swooping for the players. the players aren't angling to leave. so no its not like you describe. 

[starbugg]

I think we are wasting our time trying to help him chaps.

[XaW]

@madeirabhoy - Are you looking to get help with this, or are you just venting frustration? Many people have tried to give you pointers, but you seem to flat our refuse any advise. If you want to vent, fine, but let people know so they don't waste their time trying to explain or advise if you are not willing to consider it.

[mdaw1985]

I think I see what he is saying, if a few players came to him and said they want pay rises and got refused with the reason they can't afford it, then those players in reality would tell the rest of the dressing room and you wouldn't get every player asking as they would already know what's coming. The AI just isn't that advanced.

[MichaelNevo]

18 hours ago, madeirabhoy said:

its really not though.and no the players don't want to leave. 

Well if they don't want to leave and they just want to push you out, then I guess it's a respect thing, or a lack thereof. 

[MichaelNevo]

3 hours ago, mdaw1985 said:

I think I see what he is saying, if a few players came to him and said they want pay rises and got refused with the reason they can't afford it, then those players in reality would tell the rest of the dressing room and you wouldn't get every player asking as they would already know what's coming. The AI just isn't that advanced.

If we were talking 10 to 15 years ago, I'd agree with what you said. In todays game, reasonable players are few and far between. Being a football manager is like being a primary school teacher these days.

[SPE3D]

Your players have just won the champions League if you can't pay them the going rate there are many teams who would. You either keep them happy and say that you will sell them or you do what your currently doing and put up with low morale. Your choice.

[starbugg]

It just seems all a bit strange to me what madeirabhoy is saying.

In my experience, if I get a player wanting more money and I don't get the option to say we can't afford it (If I do get the option, the player nearly always says OK and becomes happy again) he starts complaining and usually asks to leave, but I don't have a lot of difficulty selling him for good money and then buying better (potential) players.

[MichaelNevo]

28 minutes ago, starbugg said:

It just seems all a bit strange to me what madeirabhoy is saying.

In my experience, if I get a player wanting more money and I don't get the option to say we can't afford it (If I do get the option, the player nearly always says OK and becomes happy again) he starts complaining and usually asks to leave, but I don't have a lot of difficulty selling him for good money and then buying better (potential) players.

I was trying to be polite by not pointing this out, but considering the cat is out of the bag now, yeah I agree it's strange 

[madeirabhoy]

14 hours ago, SPE3D said:

Your players have just won the champions League if you can't pay them the going rate there are many teams who would. You either keep them happy and say that you will sell them or you do what your currently doing and put up with low morale. Your choice.

ive already said they don't want to leave, and no one is coming in for them.

[madeirabhoy]

19 hours ago, XaW said:

@madeirabhoy - Are you looking to get help with this, or are you just venting frustration? Many people have tried to give you pointers, but you seem to flat our refuse any advise. If you want to vent, fine, but let people know so they don't waste their time trying to explain or advise if you are not willing to consider it.

I think it was clear from my first post that I was venting as the only way someone could help would be if someone from SI said okay we will fix it and thats not going to happen. I have considered genuinely everything that people have said on the thread and none of it has changed my mind that what im seeing is daft. im not new to this game (or football) I first played it as championship manager 3. having 14 days of 14 different player meetings so we can discuss for the 14th day on the trot that a player feels ive broken my promise by not giving him a wage rise that I can't actually give as its more than the game will allow is not realistic. 

[turnip]

No clubs have come in for your players because your players are happy. You just won the Champions League, after all. 

Once you fail to offer them acceptable contracts, they'll become unhappy quickly enough. Then clubs will come in for them. Problem solved.

[MichaelNevo]

6 hours ago, madeirabhoy said:

I think it was clear from my first post that I was venting as the only way someone could help would be if someone from SI said okay we will fix it and thats not going to happen. I have considered genuinely everything that people have said on the thread and none of it has changed my mind that what im seeing is daft. im not new to this game (or football) I first played it as championship manager 3. having 14 days of 14 different player meetings so we can discuss for the 14th day on the trot that a player feels ive broken my promise by not giving him a wage rise that I can't actually give as its more than the game will allow is not realistic. 

Personally I do think it's realistic, but that's just my opinion. Maybe it's possible that your way of thinking is old fashioned? Players aren't men these days, they're babies...

[SPE3D]

14 hours ago, madeirabhoy said:

ive already said they don't want to leave, and no one is coming in for them.

They don't want to leave yet but if they're unhappy it's only a matter of time.

[sdx15]

I've had the same thing happen when I won the Conference league with a small Portuguese club. My solution was to sell some players so that I can pay the rest of them but the in-game scenarios you get are illogical and unreal(istic).

While it makes perfect sense that players on 200-500k p/a want more money after achieving something big in their careers, the way the game plays that out isn't working. The first problem is the I believe well-known problem of players coming to you and asking for an improved contract in a meeting in which you can't find out what their demands are so you risk agitating them with a broken promise even if you're prepared to offer them an improved deal. Then, after you realise their demands are nonsensical, you cannot do anything but wait for the ********* to start.

But before the ********* starts, the nonsensical demands you get can be pretty unrealistic. In my case, the highest paid player in the team had 700k p/a and the players that wanted improved contracts had between 200 and 500k. While one player wanted an improvement from 500k to 1M, the rest wanted more than 1.5M, which is 3-7 times higher than the wages they had at the time and double the wages of the highest paid player at the club. The influx of cash from UECL wasn't that great and an improvement to the wage budget wasn't expected so, if players wanted double than what the highest earner was getting, wouldn't it make more sense for them to just hand in a transfer request? Players talk to each other and more or less know what their teammates earn so asking for such a daft increase in wages makes no sense since it's unfulfillable and just feels gamey.

And now back to the *********. After your contract offer gets rejected by the agent because you can't find an extra few million in a 10M wage budget out of nowhere, the player comes back to you to whine about the broken promise. And yes, at that point there really isn't an option to tell the player that their demands are outrageous and that the club simply doesn't have that kind of money, which looks like an oversight in SI's interactions storytelling, so you're left with other options which aren't true and can only agitate the player further. I'm not sure if there was an option to tell the player that you'll sell him because I didn't want to lower their evaluation, but there certainly wasn't any nice option which would end the meeting on a positive note. Only more promises and responses that would agitate the player. And whichever option you choose, the player becomes unhappy about not getting an improved contract and after a few weeks he makes his concern public and a number of other players want to talk to you about it.

When you talk with the team leaders and other teammates supporting the player that wants an improved contract, the same problem arises. There's no option to tell the players that their teammate's demands are outrageous. You can only tell them why you think he doesn't deserve a new contract which then agitates the rest of the squad further as everyone knows one of your key players in last season's success does deserve a better contract. That means that the whole team leaders meeting is a disaster waiting to happen since you can only make a promise which you can't fulfil or spew nonsense at the team leaders which will only ruin team morale further. Another unrealistic thing is that players would come to you one by one for days and then the supportiing teammates would do the same so you will end up talking to five different groups of players about five different teammates not getting a new contract for five days in a row, as if no one in the team communicate with each other and don't know what's going on.

Yes, the obvious solution to all of this is either selling the players or giving them what they want, just like it is in real life, but the way in which you get to that point is frustrating and a product of picking all the wrong options.

[starbugg]

On 21/04/2024 at 04:28, sdx15 said:

 

Do not make promises you can't keep, I can normally keep players happy when they call a team meeting, I suggest you work on your responses.

I think we will never agree on this, I think it is as realistic as possible when a small club wins big, history proves it, you and others don't agree, that's fine.

Edited April 22 by starbugg

[NineCloudNine]

I do agree that a simple "there's no way the club can afford that" or "the board won't allow me to offer you that" seems like an obvious and susprising omission. It's the same when you ask an agent about a player's transfer interest and the suggested wage is far too high. There's no option to say "no, sorry, not going to offer that, we're done bye". Instead you have to stall, even if there's now no intention of pursuing  a deal, which means getting regular reminders to "follow up on interest" when that interest no longer exists because the player wants a billion pounds a week.

Edited April 22 by NineCloudNine

[GreenTriangle]

Actually, it's more complicated. In the case of Portugal, the increase in a player's reputation from 135 to 155 means an implicit increase in salary claims by 20 times. The same increase in reputation in any other important European nation means an increase in salary claims by 4 to 6 times. So, yes, in the case of Portugal, it is probably more difficult to manage such a situation.