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In Search of the Holy Grail: Can Wolves win the Premier League using a 'Projection' attacking style


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I am really enjoying this thread, packed with detail, and some good tactical analysis in the most recent post. I will follow along. We all know the popularity of a high press, aggressive style of play, is popular on FM, so will be refreshing to read something with a little more variety. Keep up the good work!

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This thread is pure diamond. Would it be possible to see some of the goals that your team has scored and are closely related to the style of play that you are aiming for? Preferably in 2D and as gifs. 

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8 hours ago, SteinkelssonFM said:

THE WEST MIDLANDS DERBY

 

While matches between Wolverhampton Wanderers and Aston Villa are not traditionally considered a local derby, they can still be intense and competitive affairs. The rivalry between Wolves and Aston Villa is not as historically rooted or geographically close as some of the other West Midlands derbies, such as Aston Villa vs. Birmingham City (Second City Derby) or Wolverhampton Wanderers vs. West Bromwich Albion (Black Country Derby).

 

However, football rivalries can evolve over time, given the fact that West Bromwich Albion find themselves playing their trade in the Championship, I know this fixture will still capture the attention o fans and provide exiting football moments. Speaking of which...

 

*click on the below image for the match detail

 

image-33.png

 

In the derby game, we struggled to progress the ball down the left-side (our strongest flank in the final third), with struggling to get the better of Leon Bailey who dominated with four tackles won, three clearances, and two interceptions. His defensive contribution has been singled out in the following data analysis, whilst I have also opted to show you how Aston Villa were more successful at progressing the ball than Wolves, which enabled them to get at our defensive line early.

Love your work and the passion you put into our writing but I love this result more than anything, else! UTV!

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Posted (edited)

@toco y me voy @ianscousemac @_Ben_ thanks for taking the time to drop a comment, I was starting to think I had made the wrong decision to move the thread from within the usual career updates section of the forum.  I think the move to a style of save where I am attempting to deviate significancy away from the Premier League 'norm', and a polar opposite from the 'Ajax Way' is something which should grab my attention span, well at least until the next idea pops up! Either way, you all will at least get a few seasons written up, focusing on different aspects of the match engine. 

@Kreeki all recruitment focuses are set up for 'Any Position' I think this is the best option available as  I want to be the final judge on if a player, and their ability to play a certain role in our team. Also, for this save I am limiting myself to only sign players which have passed through my scouting team. Therefore, selecting this option helps me to at least have a wider pool of talent to select from.

@Litmanen 10 I will make a mental note to include a few more visuals for you all to experience what I am seeing. I have quickly taken a few gifs from the last few games....

795d724695ac2e6e0a16ea851e8d310c.gif.60ef1fa5e574a46dc0f6c0e1ebbfe86c.gif

Exhibit A: This example is not a counter attack, but is a great example of how fluid we are in terms of transitioning the ball through the phases. Six passes (vertical) starting at the very back with José Sá and ending with Saša Kalajdžić putting the ball in the net, albeit offside.

c0ac66da57a365c694bfb700aca86a00.gif.ea78c7fd0a76e6207ba9faddb8b3236c.gif

Exhibit B: A much more accurate representation of what we are trying to achieve against Leicester City. We punish our opponent after João Gomes wins the ball back on the edge of the box, with Leicester starting with every player in our half, five passes is all it took before Matheus Cunha opened the scoring. 

If you are enjoying this thread, I would also like to point you in the direction of those from @crusadertsar and @DrChristopher under this section.

 

Edited by SteinkelssonFM
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Thank you so much! Always interesting to see goals in gifs and game plans working out like you want. Those are nice goals and show the fluidity that for example my Betis team is often lacking! 

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Logged on for the first time in ages (having fallen out of love with FM) to say this is the best thread I've seen in ages, cannot wait to see the next update. I may even have to reinstall FM24 and give this a go myself!

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@Tilling I really appreciate you kind words, you will be pleased to know that I am just about finalising the next update, so all being well it should be good to go over the next few days! Without blowing my own trumpet too much, it should make for an interesting read! 

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Really enjoyed reading this, so much so that I shamelessly copied your tactic to see how it would do with a more elite team in Atletico Madrid. So far, we have scored 34 in 16 league games, conceding only 8. Sat top of the league with 38 points, the only losses coming to Real Madrid and a 2-0 FM'ing to Granada. The highlight, though, is definitely a 4-0 demolition of Barcelona, in which they had 60+% possession and 1 shot :D I would definitely be interested to see how you tweak in game, especially as your team gets better and faces more teams trying to defend deeper.

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How long does it usually take for you to write one of these posts?

I'm in awe for the people who have the skill and patience to write such in-depth updates.

It's also a skill to be able to pick up those things that interest people and keep them reading the longer posts. 

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@LUFCspeni no shame in copying the tactic my friend, you have in fact reminded me that I need to set up some downloadable links to the tactic for those of you that are less pro-active. I'm really pleased to see that it has also been just as effective for in Spain, with a much bigger club in terms of reputation. 

 

@Litmanen 10 how long is a piece of string! I have two boys who take up quite a lot of my free time, along with still actively playing 1st XV rugby. However, I'd say that these larger posts roughly take a week to knock up, given I get to work on them sporadically.

The construction usually takes a similar pathway, I try to group my writing under key themes which have captured my attention the most during the save, I keep a little notebook by my side on the desk to jot down some key thoughts, the others are ingrained in my head as they are with me most of the day.

I then draft up a template and insert the headlines and visuals, this enables me to jump into writing as and when time allows.

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15 minutes ago, SteinkelssonFM said:

@Litmanen 10 how long is a piece of string! I have two boys who take up quite a lot of my free time, along with still actively playing 1st XV rugby. However, I'd say that these larger posts roughly take a week to knock up, given I get to work on them sporadically.

The construction usually takes a similar pathway, I try to group my writing under key themes which have captured my attention the most during the save, I keep a little notebook by my side on the desk to jot down some key thoughts, the others are ingrained in my head as they are with me most of the day.

I then draft up a template and insert the headlines and visuals, this enables me to jump into writing as and when time allows.

Fully understand. Even with just a wife and recently arrived rescue dog, time is worth gold. Especially now as the ice hockey playoffs start. 

My content comes out of my head and is written during my lunch breaks, where I multitask by eating and writing at the same time. For playing the game itself, I usually have 1-2 hours maximum per day and a bit more during the weekends. This is also probably why my content isn't anywhere near as comprehensive as yours and some other writers'.

I salute you!

 

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Loving the concept and methodology behind your decision-making. Couple that with your insight into the game and its a work of art!  

Disappointing to hear your thoughts that it seems to be a bit easy for you to break into the top four, I too was expecting a bit more of a closer battle on the fringes for the first season at least. Have the results been rather comprehensive or is it the markings of a first season wonder?

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Hopefully the next update should be with you all after the Easter break. I have some annual leave booked in to spend some time with the family, so will endeavour to get another post out. 

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Really enjoying this thread and I think you're on to something with the "Attacking" mentality. 

"Projection" can obviously be interpreted as sit deep and play on the counter but for my money "Attacking" in FM has always produced the best transitional football as your players commit gung ho to every counter. Sure, it's risky, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

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@caco4003

I made the conscious decision to avoid regroup, in my opinion this TI is too passive, and could result in us taking on a little too much pressure.

I think if I did anything, I would simply leave this blank, enabling the players to do as they please within the ME, this is a tried and tested approach that worked well in my Ajax save as the counter press option left us vulnerable in transition, with players moving out of their shape to attempt a pressure.

WIth this set up I have tried to negate that with a narrow width, making us more compact and improving the defensive efficiency, which is working well.

Let's not forget, I am not trying to build a side which is happy to simply lie down and take it, we need to be competitive in the ME and we all know that will mean being aggressive somewhere. I just need to be in that top left quadrant, not the extreme end of it.

@felley @rayvanmond thanks for dropping a comment, you will be pleased to know that I have just finished season 2 so need to get started on another update, one after my next one labelled Attack, Attack! 

Without giving too much away, we are making positive movements with regard to the ultimate goal. 

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A joy to read as always, i have a few questions regarding your tactical changes.

I´ve noticed in the balanced version you reverted the Anchor role back to a BWM, was that to achieve the fuild structure? And i also noticed you cahnged to regroup instead of counter press despite saying it was too pasive at times, what changed?

Cheers.

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Posted (edited)

@caco4003 school boy error from me, I uploaded the wrong default tactic file, this has been changed to reflect the correct 'balanced' mentality game model. 

As for the move away from the Anchor, you are indeed correct, this has been done to ensure we keep a fluid structure.

Spoiler

image.png.94af99d25e5d0a1503b08d46ac9a08f8.png

However, saying that I am just working my way through quite a few games from the tail end of season two and need to put the shackles on the wing-backs who are the main culprits for accumulating a large number of passes in the final-third. This is expected, given they are our main outlet and provide the attacking width, but if I am to achieve the goal of this save - I may well need to bite the bullet and adopt a flexible or structured system.

 

Edited by SteinkelssonFM
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5 hours ago, SteinkelssonFM said:

For those of you who have been following along with this thread/save, I am keen for you to throw a few of your suggestions my way, what would you do to help achieve the Holy Grail, and more importantly, why?

As I am attempting to achieve the same 'Holy Grail' in my Torino save too, I have some ideas of my own which I'd love to get your thoughts on, as well as some musings on your current tactic.

Musings

  • With the goal of achieving less passes in the opposition's final third, I wonder how big (or small) an impact removing counter-press would have? There will be times where you'll lose the ball high up the pitch, win it back, and start playing again from there. Could be something to consider.
  • Very Fluid/Fluid team shapes could actually be working against your end-goal, as support duties are more associative and risk-adverse, which could be leading to more patient, probing football. Also, to my understanding, team shape is purely a visual aspect now and doesn't not work how it did in previous FM's (which is a big loss in my opinion.)
  • Removing Play Out of Defence could again decrease passes made in the final third, as you look to progress the ball quicker. Currently, I have this ticked off, and have instructed my GK to distribute to CB's, which seems to provide a nice medium. 
  • The change to a low block, low line of engagement is a nice idea, I have been considering this myself. My only reservation is that this might invite too much pressure, and might not be needed to achieve the 'Holy Grail'. 
  • I've been considering upping the passing directness to 'slightly more direct', which could be the the key to truly unlocking this style.

 

 

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En 29/3/2024 a las 16:42, SteinkelssonFM dijo:

@caco4003 school boy error from me, I uploaded the wrong default tactic file, this has been changed to reflect the correct 'balanced' mentality game model. 

As for the move away from the Anchor, you are indeed correct, this has been done to ensure we keep a fluid structure.

  Revelar contenido oculto

image.png.94af99d25e5d0a1503b08d46ac9a08f8.png

However, saying that I am just working my way through quite a few games from the tail end of season two and need to put the shackles on the wing-backs who are the main culprits for accumulating a large number of passes in the final-third. This is expected, given they are our main outlet and provide the attacking width, but if I am to achieve the goal of this save - I may well need to bite the bullet and adopt a flexible or structured system.

 

thanks for the answer, also if you want your wing bakcs to pass the ball less, wouldnt the ti "Hit early crosses" help with that?

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@jc577 thanks for taking the time to dd your 'Musings' very much appreciated. 

  • With the goal of achieving less passes in the opposition's final third, I wonder how big (or small) an impact removing counter-press would have? There will be times where you'll lose the ball high up the pitch, win it back, and start playing again from there. Could be something to consider.
  • Whilst this is a valid point, along with the re-group option, I  do enjoy having counter press selected. This I feel helps us to gain a little protection, placing a little pressure on the opponent, making it harder for them to counter, this is important as it gives time for our wing-backs and SV to get back in place. Also the initial tactic was my attempt of replicating Gary O'Neil's Wolves who currently have one of the highest (6) goal ending high turnovers. 
  • Very Fluid/Fluid team shapes could actually be working against your end-goal, as support duties are more associative and risk-adverse, which could be leading to more patient, probing football. Also, to my understanding, team shape is purely a visual aspect now and doesn't not work how it did in previous FM's (which is a big loss in my opinion.)
  • You may have read that I am already exploring a 'flexible'  or 'structured' team shape for season three, moving away from the 'fluid' pack. 
  • Removing Play Out of Defence could again decrease passes made in the final third, as you look to progress the ball quicker. Currently, I have this ticked off, and have instructed my GK to distribute to CB's, which seems to provide a nice medium. 
  • Interesting, something which is worthwhile exploring. 

@caco4003 not sure if you read the segment on Semedo (above), he has had this instruction applied, and actually ends up playing more passes (overall). Carrying out analytics on this, it is clear the increased volume in passes come in the progressive phase and not the final third. His deeper position (at times) make him an outlet for circulation. However, saying this both wing-backs have 'get further forward whenever possible' as a trait, which 100% is impacting their performances against the metrics. 

162fd137ddfead052a427529f898c0c7(1)(1).gif.0701a16df1b2c7a702feaf55a212228d.gif

I have just defeated Inter (Pre-season) and our third goal was a beauty! 

  • 41% possession 
  • 42% ball share
  • 69 final third passes vs 88 

 

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Really enjoying this ! Great work.

im considering trying this out with an English lower league side. 1) do you think this style of play will work in the lower divisions? 2) obviously the quality of player wouldn’t be as good as your wolves side. And the complete forward role wouldn’t suit my lower league forward . What role would you suggest for me ? 
 

thanks 

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