Season 2023/24 Tactical Replication Thread

[Johnny Ace]

Fresh new season! If you're watching a game and you have your Football Manager head on, jot down the tactics in here, they may be useful to others  Not just the EPL, from anywhere around the World 

Chat, tinker, try out, discuss etc this can go into FM24 too. As the season evolves, so will the tactics

Dare anyone to try Liverpool's from yesterday  

[sonnevillejr]

Love this kind of thread.

I think Pochettino's Chelsea looked like this during the Liverpool game : 

Not really sure about the CF and SS (Jackson and Sterling) though.

[Johnny Ace]

Brilliant Chilwell was pretty much a left winger that game, he was insane!! That's a great looking setup @sonnevillejr, would be a lot of fun to use  

[Johnny Ace]

Given Birmingham City a go with the new signings. We're poor at keeping possession so the shorter passing with the Positive mentality had to go, might have to drop down to Balanced for the default passing and depending on how many shots per game there are.

The double pivot of Bielik and Sunjic, would be DMs, Sunjic is the slightly more adventurous of the two, Laird is the more attacking Wingback. Both wide forwards invert and I don't think either are Inside forwards. Could be an AP at AMC and Hogan hasn't been much good upfront so far, he was beats the offside trap Trait, he's more mobile than a Poacher and can put in a shift so a PF(A) tied it up nicely 

  

[alinp]

On 14/08/2023 at 17:49, Johnny Ace said:

Dare anyone to try Liverpool's from yesterday  

Strange comment! Definitely the better side for 30 and last 15 minutes, could have easily been 2 up, hit bar, possible penalty. Came away with an away point that many others won’t achieve!

[Johnny Ace]

8 hours ago, alinp said:

Strange comment! Definitely the better side for 30 and last 15 minutes, could have easily been 2 up, hit bar, possible penalty. Came away with an away point that many others won’t achieve!

You don't think it was an interesting setup?

[alinp]

53 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

You don't think it was an interesting setup?

It’s basically a flip of the inverted 433 you have on your 433 thread… maybe a bit more aggressive.

[alinp]

Something like this?

[caioalberto11]

51 minutes ago, alinp said:

Something like this?

 

MacAllister (DM) - Was playing more like a DLP(D)

Szobo (MCR) - Was a Mezzala or CM (A) with Stay Wider
Gakpo (MCL) - Was a Mezzala (A)

[alinp]

2 minutes ago, caioalberto11 said:

 

MacAllister (DM) - Was playing more like a DLP(D)

Szobo (MCR) - Was a Mezzala or CM (A) with Stay Wider
Gakpo (MCL) - Was a Mezzala (A)

With an Attacking mentality, there’s no need for the players to have an Attack duty - they’ll do that anyway.

[vrig]

Manchester United's setup against Wolves would be interesting. Essentially every role choice and TI decision comes down to the question "How can I make Casemiro's life harder?"

[silentwars]

22 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

Given Birmingham City a go with the new signings. We're poor at keeping possession so the shorter passing with the Positive mentality had to go, might have to drop down to Balanced for the default passing and depending on how many shots per game there are.

The double pivot of Bielik and Sunjic, would be DMs, Sunjic is the slightly more adventurous of the two, Laird is the more attacking Wingback. Both wide forwards invert and I don't think either are Inside forwards. Could be an AP at AMC and Hogan hasn't been much good upfront so far, he was beats the offside trap Trait, he's more mobile than a Poacher and can put in a shift so a PF(A) tied it up nicely 

  

Doesn't the play out of defence and direct passing contradict each other?

[Chiravilla]

I'm thinking about Real Madrid this year.  They changed tactics from 433 to 41212 (diamond). Vini and Rodrygo's at the front, and Bellingham on 10 "mediapunta". I think Jude is an pure AM but I have a problem with two brazilians. Should they be positioned in the wingers' or strikers' zone?  As wingers they could be IF, W (Vini) or Raumdeuter/W/IW (Rodry) but there would be no one in the middle (Jude is not SS). If in the striker zone: Rdrygo would be good as F9 or T but what role for Vini then? F9 + T setup? I don't see Vini as a pure striker.

There is great quality in the midfield area and everyone could play different roles on the pitch.

How do you see Real Madrid tactic for this season in FM?

Edited August 16, 2023 by Chiravilla

[Johnny Ace]

28 minutes ago, silentwars said:

Doesn't the play out of defence and direct passing contradict each other?

No, I just didn't want the keeper hoofing it 

[Waseyx]

1 hour ago, Chiravilla said:

I'm thinking about Real Madrid this year.  They changed tactics from 433 to 41212 (diamond). Vini and Rodrygo's at the front, and Bellingham on 10 "mediapunta". I think Jude is an pure AM but I have a problem with two brazilians. Should they be positioned in the wingers' or strikers' zone?  As wingers they could be IF, W (Vini) or Raumdeuter/W/IW (Rodry) but there would be no one in the middle (Jude is not SS). If in the striker zone: Rdrygo would be good as F9 or T but what role for Vini then? F9 + T setup? I don't see Vini as a pure striker.

There is great quality in the midfield area and everyone could play different roles on the pitch.

How do you see Real Madrid tactic for this season in FM?

I didn't watch the game (yet) but I saw a pass map from the game that really interested me. Seems to be a 4132 according to that. 

[silentwars]

15 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

No, I just didn't want the keeper hoofing it 

IRL they do though  At least when I watched them last season. 

[Johnny Ace]

27 minutes ago, silentwars said:

IRL they do though  At least when I watched them last season. 

True, but who wants to play FM like that 

[paracoolo]

23 hours ago, caioalberto11 said:

 

MacAllister (DM) - Was playing more like a DLP(D)

Szobo (MCR) - Was a Mezzala or CM (A) with Stay Wider
Gakpo (MCL) - Was a Mezzala (A)

just so you know this is the passing map.. if they are mezzalas, liverpool is playing very narrow. And no , trent is not IWB-A, Iwb-a goes too much forward for him. Trent is deep so he's a support duty. I'd play him FB-SU with: Sits narrower,take more risks, cross more often, cross from deep, cross aim far post, dribble less, run wide with the ball ( or wb-su with the same instructions.

Anyway here's my replication( I may be wrong tho):

Edited August 17, 2023 by paracoolo

[Johnny Ace]

8 minutes ago, paracoolo said:

Anyway here's my replication( I may be wrong tho):

There's no right or wrong, these are just for fun and it's impossible to 100% replicate, great job there  I like what you've done with Trent  

[silentwars]

40 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

True, but who wants to play FM like that 

I actually usually leave it to standard if I have a good target forward and the keeper has decent kicking. But then I generally prefer playing high tempo, attacking as opposed to trying to control the game through lots of possession. 

Off tactics topic, Birmingham in my current save have plummeted to the National League and have no money - not sure if this is a regular thing in this year's FM. They've got around 10k a week to spend on wages 

Edited August 17, 2023 by silentwars

[Johnny Ace]

2 minutes ago, silentwars said:

Off tactics topic, Birmingham in my current save have plummeted to the National League and have no money - not sure if this is a regular thing in this year's FM. They've got around 10k a week to spend on wages 

If that was my save, I'd be applying  I did it in FM when they were in league two and 23 dropped before I could get them into the Premiership 

[silentwars]

12 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

If that was my save, I'd be applying  I did it in FM when they were in league two and 23 dropped before I could get them into the Premiership 

I'm pretty sure they're going to end up in the local leagues on my save 

[Johnny Ace]

It's only 2027  

[KarıdeşenJack]

On 15.08.2023 at 20:46, Johnny Ace said:

Given Birmingham City a go with the new signings. We're poor at keeping possession so the shorter passing with the Positive mentality had to go, might have to drop down to Balanced for the default passing and depending on how many shots per game there are.

The double pivot of Bielik and Sunjic, would be DMs, Sunjic is the slightly more adventurous of the two, Laird is the more attacking Wingback. Both wide forwards invert and I don't think either are Inside forwards. Could be an AP at AMC and Hogan hasn't been much good upfront so far, he was beats the offside trap Trait, he's more mobile than a Poacher and can put in a shift so a PF(A) tied it up nicely 

  

In addition to Birmingham's new signings, I added Dowell(Free) and Ward(500k) to the main 11. It was an ultra-realistic, awesome tactic. Great work. 

[Johnny Ace]

Haha!! That's great @KarıdeşenJack  Glad you're enjoying it. Sunjic suspended and Bielik injured is hardly surprising 

[McGreen]

17 hours ago, Waseyx said:

I didn't watch the game (yet) but I saw a pass map from the game that really interested me. Seems to be a 4132 according to that. 

An offtopic question.
Where do you find those pass maps?

I like the idea of replicating the new season tactics, so keep posting them!

[poma]

On 15/08/2023 at 14:08, sonnevillejr said:

Love this kind of thread.

I think Pochettino's Chelsea looked like this during the Liverpool game : 

Not really sure about the CF and SS (Jackson and Sterling) though.

I'll add/try:

- Stay wider, run wide with ball for the shadow striker.

and overlap right in possession. (Constant interchange down the right side from Sterling and James)

and change Jackson's role to advanced forward. (Works really well with a shadow striker behind)

 

Cheers

[sonnevillejr]

7 minutes ago, poma said:

I'll add/try:

- Stay wider, run wide with ball for the shadow striker.

and overlap right in possession. (Constant interchange down the right side from Sterling and James)

and change Jackson's role to advanced forward. (Works really well with a shadow striker behind)

 

Cheers

The reason why I didn’t go for an advanced forward is because of his average position and heat map. But I agree he did make some forward runs but a CF also does that

 

[fumaca09]

Has anyone tried Newcastle with Bruno and Tonali constantly swapping roles throughout the game ?

 

My thoughts were regista swapping with a roaming playmaker ?

[sonnevillejr]

Another replication here with the team I support : LOSC

Of course it's really hard to replicate with 100% accuracy, especially with Paulo Fonseca and his fluid systems but I try my best.

 

We know Paulo Fonseca likes to attack in 5221 (like most of managers nowadays), but he starts with a 4231 formation.

The FB on support is usually a more defensive player to form some kind of a back three early in the build up but can go up to support the midfield (just like Ben White I believe). When we have to go more attacking, the FB can turn into a IWB on support

The width on this side is kept by the right winger who stays high and wide and can destabilize a defense with his dribble and technique (tipically Adam Ounas or Edon Zhegrova).

On the left hand-side, the width is kept by the left back, high and wide as well (Ismaily IRL and even Timothy Weah last year when Ismaily was not available). 

The IW will then drift narrower and behave almost as an second attacking midfielder. Our new signing Hakon Haraldsson is the perfect exemple.

The AM can drift wide to the right since there's space between him and the winger. We could put him directly in the half space but I wanted to keep things simple and he will do that anyway even without PI.

The double pivot is a DM with BWM attributes (Benjamin André or our new signing Ignacio Miramon) because the player next to him won't run as much since it's a Regista, but I kept a DM to better cover the left hand-side.

I chose the Regista because it's exactly how Angel Gomes is used and he's been fantastic (even better than when he played as an AMC). When Carlos Baleba plays (huge talent linked to Brighton and Liverpool) he's more like a segundo volante or maybe a RPM)

Finally, for the striker role, I chose a CF on attack (Jonathan David) because he's our main goal threat and since we operate in a high block and seek possession, he doesn't seek to break the defensive line all the time.

[Johnny Ace]

That's great @sonnevillejr!! That looks pretty balanced all round to me, have you tried it out in game? 

[sonnevillejr]

17 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

That's great @sonnevillejr!! That looks pretty balanced all round to me, have you tried it out in game? 

Yes I’m trying it right now 👍

With Lille first season and no transfers, I tested it and got some nice results.

After some games I felt I needed a secondary threat beside the CF so I just replaced the IW for a IF on support and it worked well : 5-0 victory against Nice at home (a similar team) and a 2-1 victory away in Marseille after dominating all the game (the goal I conceded was a (very) litigious penalty). 

I’ll continue the season and see how it goes

Edited August 18, 2023 by sonnevillejr

[TheMartello]

56 minutes ago, sonnevillejr said:

Yes I’m trying it right now 👍

With Lille first season and no transfers, I tested it and got some nice results.

After some games I felt I needed a secondary threat beside the CF so I just replaced the IW for a IF on support and it worked well : 5-0 victory against Nice at home (a similar team) and a 2-1 victory away in Marseille after dominating all the game (the goal I conceded was a (very) litigious penalty). 

I’ll continue the season and see how it goes

Did you use any player instructions?

[odee]

not my channel but this guy is doing a good job recently. Definitely could be used as a starting point

 

[sonnevillejr]

4 hours ago, TheMartello said:

Did you use any player instructions?

No, I like to keep things simple so I never use any PI, I trust the roles to do what I want 

[Chiravilla]

On 16/08/2023 at 18:23, Chiravilla said:

I'm thinking about Real Madrid this year.  They changed tactics from 433 to 41212 (diamond). Vini and Rodrygo's at the front, and Bellingham on 10 "mediapunta". I think Jude is an pure AM but I have a problem with two brazilians. Should they be positioned in the wingers' or strikers' zone?  As wingers they could be IF, W (Vini) or Raumdeuter/W/IW (Rodry) but there would be no one in the middle (Jude is not SS). If in the striker zone: Rdrygo would be good as F9 or T but what role for Vini then? F9 + T setup? I don't see Vini as a pure striker.

There is great quality in the midfield area and everyone could play different roles on the pitch.

How do you see Real Madrid tactic for this season in FM?

Jude Bellingham - 2 games, 3 goals. Maybe he's a Shadow Striker though?

[Johnny Ace]

Replicating Brighton 23/24 will be a bit of a nightmare. A strikerless 4-2-4 maybe? WB left, FB right? 

 

I'm sure plenty be trying it though 

[Irn Rvd]

1 hour ago, Johnny Ace said:

Replicating Brighton 23/24 will be a bit of a nightmare. A strikerless 4-2-4 maybe? WB left, FB right? 

 

I'm sure plenty be trying it though 

It’s really difficult as you have to play low Tempo to bait the opposition with the bottom box and then somehow make the front four play like they are on a high tempo. 

[Miragepredator]

34 minutes ago, Irn Rvd said:

It’s really difficult as you have to play low Tempo to bait the opposition with the bottom box and then somehow make the front four play like they are on a high tempo. 

          PF(s)

W(s)-AM(a)-W(s)

With narrow team width, the box shape showed(from what i remember)

then direct passing with take fewer risks on them. I like to do that to replicate higher tempo in my forwards

Edited August 19, 2023 by Miragepredator

[GCVS00]

9 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

Replicating Brighton 23/24 will be a bit of a nightmare. A strikerless 4-2-4 maybe? WB left, FB right? 

 

I'm sure plenty be trying it though 

I tried to replicate it here:

*NOTE: The Pivot roles and ST-CAM role positions can be switched, I just chose what worked best for my team*

The rationale behind the instructions was that short passing helps with possession, whereas slightly higher tempo will naturally add some directness to the attack and naturally allow the players to counter without having it selected, as I felt having "Counter" ticked made us far too direct. I also chose to have the pivot be positioned in the CM strata to allow the IWB on the right to actually invert. This way, the IWB role which Gross played super well at points last year can flourish and be creative.

These are the player instructions:

GK: Pass it shorter

LB: Sit Narrower, Pass it Shorter, Cross from Byline

LCB: Pass it Shorter, Close Down Less

RCB: Pass it Shorter, Close Down Less

RB: Pass it shorter

Left Pivot: Pass it Shorter

Right Pivot: Pass it Shorter, Move into Channels, Tackle Harder

AM: Roam From Position, Move into Channels, Close Down More

LW: Stay Wider

ST: N/A

RW: N/A

Having pass shorter on the defenders and the double pivot will simulate (or at least the best approximation in the FM23 ME) the press-baiting Brighton have become known for, while the high tempo will allow the attackers to attack quickly once the press has been broken. I also think the following player traits are necessary to make it an even better fit:

GK: Stops Play, Tries to Play Way out of Trouble

LB: N/A

LCB: Stops Play, Tries to Play Way out of Trouble

RCB: Stops Play, Tries to Play Way out of Trouble

RB: Tries Killer Balls Often, Plays One-Twos, Dictates Tempo

Left Pivot: Dictates Tempo, Tries to Play Way out of Trouble

Right Pivot: Moves into Channels, Gets into Opposition Area, Plays One-Twos

LW: N/A

AM: Tries Killer Balls Often, Plays One-Twos

RW: N/A

ST: Plays One-Twos

 

Would love to hear people's thoughts on this!

Edited August 20, 2023 by GCVS00

[Cloud9]

On 18/08/2023 at 08:18, fumaca09 said:

Has anyone tried Newcastle with Bruno and Tonali constantly swapping roles throughout the game ?

 

My thoughts were regista swapping with a roaming playmaker ?

Tonali is not so much a DM, I think he's a hard working 8 who attempts some long range passing to varied effect. Here's his FB ref for reference, he was getting billed as a DM by a lot of poor pundits.

I would say it's more of a case of Bruno going forward than them swapping roles. RPM for Bruno is a good fit, BWM(s) for Big Joelinton and CM(s) w/take more risks for Tonali as the 8s. 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Cloud9

[GCVS00]

On 19/08/2023 at 15:20, Johnny Ace said:

Replicating Brighton 23/24 will be a bit of a nightmare. A strikerless 4-2-4 maybe? WB left, FB right? 

 

I'm sure plenty be trying it though 

Here is the pass map from my recreation of the Brighton tactic. Seems to match decently

[Irn Rvd]

46 minutes ago, GCVS00 said:

Here is the pass map from my recreation of the Brighton tactic. Seems to match decently

Pass map and ppms look good. I was never able to to test it with tries to play way out of trouble which might be helpful for when the pivots are marked. 
focus play through the middle is a must for me but makes the tactic work really badly (most of the time). The left and right backs are just ball recyclers up until the final third normally, and without focus play they end up being the main deep passers. 

[1twoQ]

On 19/08/2023 at 14:20, Johnny Ace said:

Replicating Brighton 23/24 will be a bit of a nightmare. A strikerless 4-2-4 maybe? WB left, FB right? 

 

I'm sure plenty be trying it though 

Just going to leave this here

  

2 minutes ago, 1twoQ said:

The below image has the pass map from Brighton's 4-1 victory over Wolves, surrounded by the pass maps from the first 8 games of my FM season. You can see in some of them different players (namely the AM or AML) had to drop back a bit more to get the ball but I'm happy with how similar they are to real life. In general Mitoma isn't as far forward as he was in the wolves match (but with how fluid the front 4 are I'm sure if you plotted it over a year he wouldn't always be the furthest forward person) and there isn't enough passing back to the keeper (but i think that's just a general FM thing)

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

If anyone wants to join in the conversations we have a lot of recreations going on in the above listed thread.

[sonnevillejr]

On 18/08/2023 at 17:37, sonnevillejr said:

Another replication here with the team I support : LOSC

Of course it's really hard to replicate with 100% accuracy, especially with Paulo Fonseca and his fluid systems but I try my best.

 

We know Paulo Fonseca likes to attack in 5221 (like most of managers nowadays), but he starts with a 4231 formation.

The FB on support is usually a more defensive player to form some kind of a back three early in the build up but can go up to support the midfield (just like Ben White I believe). When we have to go more attacking, the FB can turn into a IWB on support

The width on this side is kept by the right winger who stays high and wide and can destabilize a defense with his dribble and technique (tipically Adam Ounas or Edon Zhegrova).

On the left hand-side, the width is kept by the left back, high and wide as well (Ismaily IRL and even Timothy Weah last year when Ismaily was not available). 

The IW will then drift narrower and behave almost as an second attacking midfielder. Our new signing Hakon Haraldsson is the perfect exemple.

The AM can drift wide to the right since there's space between him and the winger. We could put him directly in the half space but I wanted to keep things simple and he will do that anyway even without PI.

The double pivot is a DM with BWM attributes (Benjamin André or our new signing Ignacio Miramon) because the player next to him won't run as much since it's a Regista, but I kept a DM to better cover the left hand-side.

I chose the Regista because it's exactly how Angel Gomes is used and he's been fantastic (even better than when he played as an AMC). When Carlos Baleba plays (huge talent linked to Brighton and Liverpool) he's more like a segundo volante or maybe a RPM)

Finally, for the striker role, I chose a CF on attack (Jonathan David) because he's our main goal threat and since we operate in a high block and seek possession, he doesn't seek to break the defensive line all the time.

Our new signing Tiago Santos has been amazing for his first games, and Paulo Fonseca even said we could change the way we play because of him since he's more of an attacking player...

Last sunday, we played against Nantes (2-0 win) and we played with 2 attacking wing-backs since Bafode Diakite played as a CB. Therefore, we played differently. 

At times (especially during the first half), our formation looked like this in possession :

Tiago Santos made inside runs and was higher than Edon Zhegrova. 

So I tried to replicate this in the game (I didn't tested it yet) :

Of course, I just tried to replicate a certain phase of play that we could see but as usual it was pretty fluid so it's not really possible to replicate in FM.

Note that I chose the advanced forward role for Jonathan David since he didn't participate much in the build up (only 17 touches).

[Johnny Ace]

I might have to catch a Lille game, sounds interesting @sonnevillejr

[Skywalk3r83]

8 hours ago, sonnevillejr said:

Our new signing Tiago Santos has been amazing for his first games, and Paulo Fonseca even said we could change the way we play because of him since he's more of an attacking player...

Last sunday, we played against Nantes (2-0 win) and we played with 2 attacking wing-backs since Bafode Diakite played as a CB. Therefore, we played differently. 

At times (especially during the first half), our formation looked like this in possession :

Tiago Santos made inside runs and was higher than Edon Zhegrova. 

So I tried to replicate this in the game (I didn't tested it yet) :

Of course, I just tried to replicate a certain phase of play that we could see but as usual it was pretty fluid so it's not really possible to replicate in FM.

Note that I chose the advanced forward role for Jonathan David since he didn't participate much in the build up (only 17 touches).

Looks nice, good luck!

[sonnevillejr]

 

After our dreadful performance against Lorient today IRL (4-1 defeat....), I decided to avenge myself against Monaco to win 4-1 as well, using the first tactic that I posted with a few tweaks.

I thought it was a nice pass map since we can clearly see the 4231 morphing in possession. It's just a shame we can't make the AMC only drift to the right to form a real box midfield, unless messing with the defensive formation.

[Batigoal__]

Hello everyone,

Great thread, thanks @Johnny Ace for opening it.

You share interesting data, in particular player's average positioning data with various tools.
It's interesting to know what sources are used.

I'd like to take this opportunity to share with you the thread tactical recreation by Marcelino, the new coach of Olympique de Marseille in Ligue 1.
Thank you for reading and for your contributions, we need them.

You are welcome to join us.

[Johnny Ace]

I did see that @Batigoal__, great thread