when to trap inside or trap outside or don't do any ?

[DaaNMaaN]

just wondering any tips, on your tactics out of possession when do you use trap inside or trap outside or leave blank ? I kind of use it sometimes but don't no why I'm using it an if its going to benefit me. any tips an when and why you use it ? 

thanks 

[phd_angel]

Great question. FM YouTubers (Zealand) recommend doing nothing. For me, it depends on how my formation aligns with the opponent: I use trap inside when I have 1 or 2 DMs and the opponent's wings are very active. I use trap outside when I have no DMs and opponent's midfielders are quite dominant. Oftentimes I do nothing. Open to learn more about this.

[Etebaer]

It seems toi me Trap Inside equals a wide formation and trap outside equals a tight formation settings in older FMs.

So, there you go - i have Trap Inside paired with Prevent Crosses and for me it works excellent (my older Tactics were all wide ones bcs i have already a center congestion from the formation).

[WizbaII]

At this very moment, I am using Trap Outside because the opposition has wingers that want to cross into a small forward, so I'm just going to go ahead and let them do that. I personally would not use Trap Inside unless I was playing with a back 5.

[SimonHoddle]

Yh I think it’s a very simplistic rebrand of defend wide (trap inside )or defend narrow (trap outside). Check data hub and see where opponents are strong and you can choose to counter it with this instruction. It does help with my tactics when I choose one or other. 
 

Trapping in a sophisticated tactical innovation in football. SI should be considering implementing it to a much greater degree than a rebrand IMO

[themadsheep2001]

First thing to point out is that its not simply a rebrand of defend narrow defend wide. Note that you have two different instructions for your engagement. Trap inside/out is about how they shape to funnel, and invite crosses/prevent crosses influences engagement. There's no answer other than it depends on you're trying to do with your defensive setup. They can a do a job on their own or in tandem with opposition instructions to funnel the opposition where you want. For example I play a 4231 with an aggressive counterpress, I use trap inside with OIs to force the defence back inside to my front 6, which forces a lot of turnovers very high up the pitch. You can make some very clever pressing traps with a combination of your out possession instructions and your OIs. 

[Jack Joyce]

Force Inside/Outside - Outside of your defensive third, where do you want to attempt to win the ball back?

• Outside - Players will screen/protect the middle of the pitch, forcing the opposition to play the ball wide during build-up. The theory is that it's easier to win the ball back when the ball is wide, because the opposition have less available range of options due to being near the side-line.
• Inside - Players will cut access to wide players, trying to encourage the opposition in to trying to play through the middle. The idea being that if you manage to win the ball back in a central area, the resulting counter-attack is more dangerous than one that starts from wide.

Note that these instructions don't just change the width of your team when defending, but also affect pressing decisions and the angle in which a player presses from.

Then you have invite/prevent crosses for your own defensive third, allowing you to have different engagement instructions for different areas of the pitch.

When choosing your force outside/inside instruction, think about:

• In my shape/structure, where are we most vulnerable?
• How do the opposition like to build play? Do they have a particular weak link in the build-up who isn't as good on the ball? 

When choosing cross engagement, think about:

• Do we have an aerial superiority?
• What's my opposition's strengths? Are they better at working the ball patiently or do they look to get early crosses in from out wide as much as possible?

[2feet]

5 hours ago, Jack Joyce said:

Force Inside/Outside - Outside of your defensive third, where do you want to attempt to win the ball back?

• Outside - Players will screen/protect the middle of the pitch, forcing the opposition to play the ball wide during build-up. The theory is that it's easier to win the ball back when the ball is wide, because the opposition have less available range of options due to being near the side-line.
• Inside - Players will cut access to wide players, trying to encourage the opposition in to trying to play through the middle. The idea being that if you manage to win the ball back in a central area, the resulting counter-attack is more dangerous than one that starts from wide.

Note that these instructions don't just change the width of your team when defending, but also affect pressing decisions and the angle in which a player presses from.

Then you have invite/prevent crosses for your own defensive third, allowing you to have different engagement instructions for different areas of the pitch.

When choosing your force outside/inside instruction, think about:

• In my shape/structure, where are we most vulnerable?
• How do the opposition like to build play? Do they have a particular weak link in the build-up who isn't as good on the ball? 

When choosing cross engagement, think about:

• Do we have an aerial superiority?
• What's my opposition's strengths? Are they better at working the ball patiently or do they look to get early crosses in from out wide as much as possible?

Hi Jack

Although I appreciate the helpful reply and details very much indeed, this post really makes me quite angry, because these clarifications expose how the game itself doesn't explain to the player what the controls actually do.

For example, where in the game does it indicate that the trap inside/outside instructions only apply outside of the defensive third? Am I missing something?

Why don't you bring clear information like this into the game?

So instead of "hmmm let me turn on 'trap inside', see if that helps my team. Don't really know what it does, and the game doesn't really explain what it does either, but hey ho lets give it a try"...

...instead of that we can make informed decisions about our set-up.

 

Maybe take the opportunity to improve immersion?

Have a staff member come to you to explain how traps work, giving similar information as per above to clarify how it works?

"Hi Derek, let's have a chat about how we're using traps... "

He then suggests taking another look at how our current set-up uses traps, in order to improve results.

This could be available for each team instruction too.... 

 

Would this be too much work for SI games?

Would the staff advice be too subject to changing with each new version of FM?

Is that why clear explanations about what instructions actually do is so hard to find in FM?

[XaW]

39 minutes ago, 2feet said:

Hi Jack

Although I appreciate the helpful reply and details very much indeed, this post really makes me quite angry, because these clarifications expose how the game itself doesn't explain to the player what the controls actually do.

For example, where in the game does it indicate that the trap inside/outside instructions only apply outside of the defensive third? Am I missing something?

Why don't you bring clear information like this into the game?

So instead of "hmmm let me turn on 'trap inside', see if that helps my team. Don't really know what it does, and the game doesn't really explain what it does either, but hey ho lets give it a try"...

...instead of that we can make informed decisions about our set-up.

 

Maybe take the opportunity to improve immersion?

Have a staff member come to you to explain how traps work, giving similar information as per above to clarify how it works?

"Hi Derek, let's have a chat about how we're using traps... "

He then suggests taking another look at how our current set-up uses traps, in order to improve results.

This could be available for each team instruction too.... 

 

Would this be too much work for SI games?

Would the staff advice be too subject to changing with each new version of FM?

Is that why clear explanations about what instructions actually do is so hard to find in FM?

The tooltip does say the same, but perhaps not as detailed as Jack described it.

I do agree the game should provide you with more though, but the text here is pretty similar to what Jack wrote.

[2feet]

Thanks... OK there are some instructions, I forgot, but they're written in gobbledygook English if you ask me.

Jacks post was the first time I've actually understood what these instructions do.

[themadsheep2001]

The only real difference is the use of the word funnel...

[jeru]

4 hours ago, XaW said:

The tooltip does say the same, but perhaps not as detailed as Jack described it.

I do agree the game should provide you with more though, but the text here is pretty similar to what Jack wrote.

Nowhere in the tooltip is the most important fact in jacks post explained force inside outside only only applies outside of the defensive third and stop/allow crosses only apply in your defensive third……….

[Rashidi]

On 23/04/2023 at 08:26, themadsheep2001 said:

First thing to point out is that its not simply a rebrand of defend narrow defend wide. Note that you have two different instructions for your engagement. Trap inside/out is about how they shape to funnel, and invite crosses/prevent crosses influences engagement. There's no answer other than it depends on you're trying to do with your defensive setup. They can a do a job on their own or in tandem with opposition instructions to funnel the opposition where you want. For example I play a 4231 with an aggressive counterpress, I use trap inside with OIs to force the defence back inside to my front 6, which forces a lot of turnovers very high up the pitch. You can make some very clever pressing traps with a combination of your out possession instructions and your OIs. 

When people ask me to explain this I usually feel the best advice is to tell them to avoid it in the first place, not because they don’t work but because they can sometimes work so well, the user is his own worst enemy.

It depends on the roles you are using their duties and other TIs. It’s not a simple go narrow or go wide.

Its great when you have a specific plan like a formation that collapses on roles like DM(d) and BWM, but if your middle is full of Mezzalas and roaming playmakers, then you could be asking for trouble.

A lot of thought has to be given to the overall setup, you are in fact parting the sea in a specific area. That area needs the right roles, otherwise you get into trouble. It works brilliantly when it does, but it can go horribly wrong when you make a bad choice with roles and duties. What you’ve done is great. Funny thing in my 433 double DM narrow I am trapping outside because I want my heavy middle to stampede through the centre.

[XaW]

12 hours ago, jeru said:

Nowhere in the tooltip is the most important fact in jacks post explained force inside outside only only applies outside of the defensive third and stop/allow crosses only apply in your defensive third……….

I agree, that should be added to the tooltip imo.

[SimonHoddle]

On 26/04/2023 at 11:35, Jack Joyce said:

Force Inside/Outside - Outside of your defensive third, where do you want to attempt to win the ball back?

• Outside - Players will screen/protect the middle of the pitch, forcing the opposition to play the ball wide during build-up. The theory is that it's easier to win the ball back when the ball is wide, because the opposition have less available range of options due to being near the side-line.
• Inside - Players will cut access to wide players, trying to encourage the opposition in to trying to play through the middle. The idea being that if you manage to win the ball back in a central area, the resulting counter-attack is more dangerous than one that starts from wide.

Note that these instructions don't just change the width of your team when defending, but also affect pressing decisions and the angle in which a player presses from.

Then you have invite/prevent crosses for your own defensive third, allowing you to have different engagement instructions for different areas of the pitch.

When choosing your force outside/inside instruction, think about:

• In my shape/structure, where are we most vulnerable?
• How do the opposition like to build play? Do they have a particular weak link in the build-up who isn't as good on the ball? 

When choosing cross engagement, think about:

• Do we have an aerial superiority?
• What's my opposition's strengths? Are they better at working the ball patiently or do they look to get early crosses in from out wide as much as possible?

Appreciate your intervention but please send a message back to SI that the information about this game, its rules and idiosyncrasies are terrible. 7 months into a game SI choose to let the players know this specific dynamic! Lol.

either please write a manual or set up a video tutorial. Other games do this. 

it gives the impression that SI don’t want us to know or cba. I don’t think either is true but that’s awful that we had to wait for an employee generous enough with their time to tell us that. And, let’s face facts, there are multiple examples of being vague and opaque.

Edited April 27, 2023 by SimonHoddle

[XaW]

7 minutes ago, SimonHoddle said:

Appreciate your intervention but please send a message back to SI that the information about this game, its rules and idiosyncrasies are terrible. 7 months into a game SI choose to let the players know this specific dynamic! Lol.

either please write a manual or set up a video tutorial. Other games do this. 

it gives the impression that SI don’t want us to know or cba. I don’t think either is true but that’s awful that we had to wait for an employee generous enough with their time to tell us that. And, let’s face facts, there are multiple examples of being vague and opaque.

While I agree it should be better documented in the game, it is in the online manual like you asked for:

Quote

Pressing Trap

The success of how you implement a pressing trigger determines how successful your Defensive Transition and your Line of Engagement are, but it also needs to fit snugly with those instructions to be possible in the first place. You can try to Trap Inside or Outside depending on where the strengths and weaknesses of your team and of the opposition like respectively; Trap Inside will try to force play into central areas where winning possession back could lead to high-quality chances, while Trap Outside is often more successful as opponents have fewer options when under pressure, but it doesn’t often yield quite as many successful transition opportunities.

Cross Engagement

You can ask your team to Stop Crosses, denying the forwards the penalty area supply they crave, or you can Invite Crosses to force a team to play in such a way that they’re uncomfortable with, perhaps because they don’t have forwards suited to getting on the end of crosses or, indeed, delivering them in the first place.

 

[SimonHoddle]

3 hours ago, XaW said:

While I agree it should be better documented in the game, it is in the online manual like you asked for:

 

I didn’t even know this existed tbh. Still a bit ambiguous but it does help. I’ll have a read. TY

[XaW]

15 minutes ago, SimonHoddle said:

I didn’t even know this existed tbh. Still a bit ambiguous but it does help. I’ll have a read. TY

Yeah, there is a whole manual linked from the top of the page here on the forums. The game also links there from the FM-menu:

I hope this makes you think once more about making comments like the last one you did previously. It came across as quite rude towards SI staff, especially considering this is an available resource. And while I fully agree the game could be better at explaining parts, I don't think that comment was called for in this case.

[Jagr]

I use it about every other game.

 

When the opponents both wingers have their stronger foot on the inside - I press/trap to the outside. 

When the opponents both wingers have their stronger foot on the outside - I press/trap inside.

You also need to consider that really offensive wing backs will be threatening from the outside (for the most). 

 

When the opponent attacks both from the wing and also cuts inside - I leave it blank.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Jagr

[2feet]

7 hours ago, XaW said:

While I agree it should be better documented in the game, it is in the online manual like you asked for:

 

The manual doesn't say: 

- that trapping only applies outside the defensive third.

- that the pressing option you choose affects defensive width

- that the pressing options change the angles players press from

- that cross engagement should be used to control how pressing operates in the defensive third that the press inside/outside controls do not apply to

 

Edited April 27, 2023 by 2feet

[Mst82]

After reading through the comments on this thread, I began to think about traps/ pressing in a whole new light, and after struggling like hell against Bayern in my Dortmund save I put some of the points above into action, and then this happened......................

They love switching from 4-2-3-1 to 4-2-2-2 when they're not getting their own way, and that's what usually kills me! I went from a trap inside to a trap outside, adjusting my formation accordingly, and it worked an absolute treat. I even finished the game with a 4-6-0 to keep them contained, and even nicked a late goal to finish them off.

It's rare I really enjoy watching a full 90 minutes in FM, but this was absolutely class, even when they scored those quickfire goals I knew I still had the upper hand.

Cheers to all who commented on this thread with hints and tips, it's made me Saturday 😂😂😂