Roberto de Zerbi - Tactical Attempt and Discussion

[Irn Rvd]

Anyone had any luck with this recreation? I’ve been trying all week but it’s tough to get it working. 
 

I think the key is minimal TIs with player traits specifically drops deeper on the striker, wingers with cuts inside and dribbles more and centre backs with stops play. 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Irn Rvd

[Miragepredator]

 

16 hours ago, odee said:

what do you think would be the right role for Steele to recreate his play style? i've been thinking that SK(a) + balanced mentality might be better than SK(s).

https://twitter.com/JackFawcett1704/status/1654409455461695488

If you have access to the in-game editor, you can give your defence and GK the traits, Tries to play way out of trouble, stops play and brings ball out of defence(yes, even on GK) . I also add play short simple passes to the defenders + plays ball with feet to GK.  Then play GK as SK(a) and In Transition, play to CB and slow down play. I also do not Play Out of Defence as i found that they tend to go long under pressure more (might just be me)

 

Alternatively, if you dont want to use that method, you can put GK on SK(d) and add instructions Direct Passing and Take fewer risks.

if the opposition press is high then i use CD's and apply the same^ and increase tempo of the game. When i do this i use SK(a)

or against low pressure, BPD with dribble more and shorter passing

 

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Miragepredator

[Miragepredator]

heres a goal i scored similar to a de zerbi type, i was using a different system but had the same traits and instructions

 

[Mutumba]

1 hour ago, Miragepredator said:

heres a goal i scored similar to a de zerbi type, i was using a different system but had the same traits and instructions

 

Did you cheat using the in-game editor and the traits you mentioned? 

Get a print screen of your tactic

[Miragepredator]

43 minutes ago, Mutumba said:

Did you cheat using the in-game editor and the traits you mentioned? 

Get a print screen of your tactic

I added the traits about the GK with in-game editor but the rest i bought with the traits or mentore

this tactic was a one off for a second leg ucl tie, but heres the system

 

 

 

[LukeSavo]

2 hours ago, Miragepredator said:

I added the traits about the GK with in-game editor but the rest i bought with the traits or mentore

this tactic was a one off for a second leg ucl tie, but heres the system

 

 

 

Love the idea behind PPMs etc but do you have a De Zerbi tactic that’s working to show on here (the whole tactic too)? Trying to give it a go with your advice as it’s intrigued me!

Edited May 25, 2023 by LukeSavo

[Miragepredator]

I have 2 versions (im still trialing the "vs Big Team3"

i tried getting the shape where one of the mids stays between the inverted wb's while the other goes forwards. So if both mids have similar attributes you can use swap position.

The winger roles can be changed to be honest, i was just trying stuff

[Miragepredator]

Same as ^ the winger roles were just tests, i wanted to get both overlaps from wingback sometimes but also underlaps from SV's if possible 

[Mutumba]

23 hours ago, Miragepredator said:

I added the traits about the GK with in-game editor but the rest i bought with the traits or mentore

this tactic was a one off for a second leg ucl tie, but heres the system

 

 

 

How about the PIs for this one?

[Miragepredator]

1 hour ago, Mutumba said:

How about the PIs for this one?

3-2-2-3(MtM,HIGH PRESS).fmf

 

you can move one of the forwards to AM and get both AM's to man mark against DMs in a 4-2-3-1

Edited May 26, 2023 by Miragepredator

[Irn Rvd]

Did any manage to get this going? I’ve ended up uninstalling the game out of frustration as I just can’t get it to work like a de zerbi tactic lol.  I’m thinking I need to dumb down my expectations cause we may only Be able to do a loose recreation. 

we want really slow patient build up between the defence and two dms. This will be risky and we will lose the ball in danger areas at times but it’s worth it. Once the first and second opposition press is on our base we want to up the tempo and get it to the AM or striker then release the winger so he’s 1v1. Flood the box to create overloads and create ccc. 

what I got so far is:

Positive

in possession:

Slightly lower tempo - adjusted per opposition

much shorter passing - for possession purposes and to try force centre backs to play short passes to dm and between each other  

Plays out of defence - similar to above  

focus play through the middle - I found that without this ticked our team would always look to pass to the wide men too early and leave them with little passing options. We also want to encourage the cbs and dms to pass between one another. 
 

dribble less - too encourage centre backs and dms to pass between one another and bait the opposition. I find that the wingers with attack will dribble almost all the time anyway.

in-transition:

counter (sometimes. Turn this off when not winning the possession battle) 

counter press

gk slow down play and distribute to centre backs. 
 

out of possession:

these can be opposition based. They do tend to press high but the d line drops occasionally. 
i usually do press high but adjust accordingly. 
 

sk(d) 

wing back (s)

cb (takes less risks)

cb (takes less risks)

fb ( sit narrower and gets further forward)

dm(s) dribble less

dlp(d) 

inside forward (a or s) 

am(a) moves into channels and roams. dribble less  

inverted winger (a)

Dlp(s) roams from position. 
 

main issues I am having is:

- wingers don’t stay wide and if ask to stay wider or become ineffective. Wingers on attack just don’t get involved in the game. 
 

- centre backs don’t really bait the opposition at all. I have stops play on them but they never seem to stop play. Tried slowing down the tempo but we just seem to pass it around and never look forward if you do that. Still don’t bait the opposition in any way.  
 

- the tempo switch from slow to fast. Not sure if this is possible but have tried to create this by making the three advanced midfielder all have attack so they are more direct. Added dribble less to the forward and CAM to try and make them wall pass and lay off. 
 

-cam and striker sort of playing in a front two. Sometimes they play and press like a front two but other times they are so close to each other it’s asif the other players don’t recognise them. This isolated the dms even more than they should be and also the wingers when they receive the ball early. I cannot stop the wingers dribbling into three men no matter what. 
 

- winger roles: we want to get him one v one with the full back and drive into the edge of the box near the byline when possible on one side. When used wingers they would just run wide then turn back and pass to dms. When using inverted winger they cut in way too early if replicating the mitoma role. March role could be this often.  We also need these two to be wide and up the pitch as much as possible pinning back the full backs which doesn’t always happen with inverted winger. Problem with inside forward is…they are inside forwards in game. So they do play super direct which we want, but they never cross (as it’s hard coded) and always shoot from tight angles. I think this is primarily due not having an advanced forward to cross too though. 
 

anyone have any ideas? I feel like this recreation will take some crazy concoction to work ie various mentality with a ton of team instructions and player instruction to find a sweet spot especially to entice the opposition into pressing. 

[odee]

 

[TheBeardless]

I think I've created it

 

[jepguardiola10]

10 hours ago, TheBeardless said:

I think I've created it

 

Can I see?

[TheBeardless]

12 hours ago, jepguardiola10 said:

Can I see?

 

 

 

[VirgilFanDijk12]

On 22/01/2023 at 00:56, Gonzo666 said:

the cb passing is too sexy

 

 

check it out... its just beautiful, the cm(s) and dlp(d) are playing so clsoe to eachother always like they do in real life, gross has come inside, estupian made an overlapping run and mitoma went inside, lallana is 2 bumps from a ket hole so his space investigation is at optimum capabilities, also, i find that having cm(s) above the dm strata also is more accurately representing mac allister... obviously he has the traits arrives into box late and shoots more often i think, so depending on who u play in the cm(s), it can actually be reallly interesting role for build up

fb(a) stays narrow is actually so beautiful, i constantly find estupiñán in these situations where mitoma or whoever is on left wing has gone wide and then the fullback hes cutting inside like an emo in 2010

 

Estupiñán hit that like a cannon, the net is clearly a showpiece by Theo van Doesburg constructed out of solid steel

 

 

 

so on the left is the 4-1 win vs everton at goodison park the other day and on the right is the game i just played vs newcastle, some nice simularities there,

 

 

beautiful!

 

also, using tight marking + tackle harder is really useful i've found especially with this, often brighton one of the cbs atleast is tight marking, and giving it to the fullbacks is also v useful

 

lovely, none of our goals scored in the last 5 games have come from crosses... (not counting corners) beautiful

 

edit: remember to give sanchez tries to play way out of trouble... super important

 

lets be real though, bring back sliders n more options of customising tactics... this game is becoming so childlike its sad, give us the freedom to actually emulate real life football instead of having to find workarounds on this outdated and way way way overly simplified game

the game is all about tactics! sort it out si! stop adding filler and completely revamp tactic creation!

I have been inspired by this tactical re-creation and have created the tactic below. Gonzo's system particularly the CBs instruction and traits make the closest I've seen to De Zerbi football in the match engine.

[shaneomac]

On 24/06/2023 at 11:46, VirgilFanDijk12 said:

I have been inspired by this tactical re-creation and have created the tactic below. Gonzo's system particularly the CBs instruction and traits make the closest I've seen to De Zerbi football in the match engine.

Do you use any PI's or OI's for this?

[Pablo Sanchez]

On 21/01/2023 at 04:15, Yisz said:

Interesting video

Terrible this gy wouldn't know a tactic from a tick tac

[VirgilFanDijk12]

On 26/06/2023 at 16:29, shaneomac said:

Do you use any PI's or OI's for this?

PI's are:

BPD dribble less

CD take more risks

FB s stay narrow, take more risks, cross less often, dribble less

FB (at) stay narrow, cross from byline

CM (s) hold position, dribble less, take fewer risks

DLP take more risks

IW (a) cross less often, stay wider

SS roam from position

PF s roam from position, more direct passes

no OIs

[ElJuanvito]

One thing that has worked for me recently in trying to produce artificial transitions: Cautious mentality + 3/4 attacking duties. I think that, with Balanced or higher, defenders try to force things to happen too often.

[Irn Rvd]

On 02/07/2023 at 08:39, Pablo Sanchez said:

Terrible this gy wouldn't know a tactic from a tick tac

I did have a good chuckle at this recreation. 

[Irn Rvd]

On 13/07/2023 at 22:06, ElJuanvito said:

One thing that has worked for me recently in trying to produce artificial transitions: Cautious mentality + 3/4 attacking duties. I think that, with Balanced or higher, defenders try to force things to happen too often.

I need to try this

[04texag]

7 hours ago, Irn Rvd said:

I need to try this

I used to do this, and did two years ago with a de Zerbi recreation, it definitely can work. 

[LukeSavo]

2 hours ago, 04texag said:

I used to do this, and did two years ago with a de Zerbi recreation, it definitely can work. 

What was your setup with it mate, would like to give your complete one a go!

[04texag]

6 minutes ago, LukeSavo said:

What was your setup with it mate, would like to give your complete one a go!

I don't recall exactly, I'll have to find it. This was back in the Sassuolo era. I set up a conservative build from the back, with the 4231 shape. Back for played always back, as ball recyclers, then the front 6 were very fluid with positional rotation/flexibility. I did use Cautious mentality, and the fb-AU role, as you can tell that specific combo to hold position and do very customized setups. It worked a treat.

[LukeSavo]

11 minutes ago, 04texag said:

I don't recall exactly, I'll have to find it. This was back in the Sassuolo era. I set up a conservative build from the back, with the 4231 shape. Back for played always back, as ball recyclers, then the front 6 were very fluid with positional rotation/flexibility. I did use Cautious mentality, and the fb-AU role, as you can tell that specific combo to hold position and do very customized setups. It worked a treat.

Okay mate. If you do happen to come across it then I'd love to give yours a go as I came across your jdp a while ago and I loved the write up! Dont go out of your way for the De Zerbi one but would very much appreciate it mate

[Pablo Sanchez]

18 hours ago, Irn Rvd said:

I did have a good chuckle at this recreation. 

haha nice

[1twoQ]

I played around with a lot of combinations but this is what I finally settled on:

 

The distribute to specific team-mate is aimed at dunk, but distribute to CB's works just as well. Was just trying to get Dunk more touches/completed passes per game this way.

If the opposition is really trying to push down the wings with aggressively overlapping fullbacks, or just has really skilled wide players I'll typically change the invite crosses instruction to stop crosses, but otherwise invite crosses seems to protect the middle of the pitch better and keep the defense more compact.

Against opposition that really doesn't want to press I'll take the more direct passing off the midfielders or even switch it to shorter passing in extreme cases to get a slower buildup to try to really emphasize baiting them to press. If doing this I'll usually also add take less risk to the left centerback and change Dunk to a BPD and give him more direct passing to occasionally get him to try a riskier pass to get through the press we've hopefully baited them into, and give him dribble more so if they're still not pressing he'll break the lines himself and force someone to pick him up. In these cases I'll usually change Gross to a volante (s) to encourage him to drop less and offer more space for dunk to dribble in to and offer a more progressive passing option. 

 

I wanted something that gave a fairly accurate Brighton recreation while still working decently enough in the match engine. 

The main things I wanted to replicate were obviously the way Brighton plays out of the back to try to bait the press before passing through it, a nice 2-4-4 shape in buildup that can morph all the way into a 2-2-6 in camping situations, overall high possession numbers, overall high shot totals, a fairly similar number of shots between the front 4 & Mitoma and March having a high number of progressive carries.

 

IRL Brighton finished first in shots per game, 3rd in possession 5th lowest shots against per game, 4th highest goals for and 10th lowest goals against per game. With the above setup I'm able to get consistently top 5 in shots, possession & goals for.

 

The best I've been able to get shots against wise is around 8th-10th lowest. Not sure how to get that number better while still maintaining the rest but overall this is the setup I've gone with. I'm open to ideas to try and make it more solid defensively if it doesn't take too much away from the recreation aspects listed above.

 

Give it a go and let me know what you think!

Edited August 1, 2023 by 1twoQ

[Irn Rvd]

On 01/08/2023 at 06:08, 1twoQ said:

I played around with a lot of combinations but this is what I finally settled on:

 

The distribute to specific team-mate is aimed at dunk, but distribute to CB's works just as well. Was just trying to get Dunk more touches/completed passes per game this way.

If the opposition is really trying to push down the wings with aggressively overlapping fullbacks, or just has really skilled wide players I'll typically change the invite crosses instruction to stop crosses, but otherwise invite crosses seems to protect the middle of the pitch better and keep the defense more compact.

Against opposition that really doesn't want to press I'll take the more direct passing off the midfielders or even switch it to shorter passing in extreme cases to get a slower buildup to try to really emphasize baiting them to press. If doing this I'll usually also add take less risk to the left centerback and change Dunk to a BPD and give him more direct passing to occasionally get him to try a riskier pass to get through the press we've hopefully baited them into, and give him dribble more so if they're still not pressing he'll break the lines himself and force someone to pick him up. In these cases I'll usually change Gross to a volante (s) to encourage him to drop less and offer more space for dunk to dribble in to and offer a more progressive passing option. 

 

I wanted something that gave a fairly accurate Brighton recreation while still working decently enough in the match engine. 

The main things I wanted to replicate were obviously the way Brighton plays out of the back to try to bait the press before passing through it, a nice 2-4-4 shape in buildup that can morph all the way into a 2-2-6 in camping situations, overall high possession numbers, overall high shot totals, a fairly similar number of shots between the front 4 & Mitoma and March having a high number of progressive carries.

 

IRL Brighton finished first in shots per game, 3rd in possession 5th lowest shots against per game, 4th highest goals for and 10th lowest goals against per game. With the above setup I'm able to get consistently top 5 in shots, possession & goals for.

 

The best I've been able to get shots against wise is around 8th-10th lowest. Not sure how to get that number better while still maintaining the rest but overall this is the setup I've gone with. I'm open to ideas to try and make it more solid defensively if it doesn't take too much away from the recreation aspects listed above.

 

Give it a go and let me know what you think!

This plays really well. Not tested against a super team yet which is where I think RDZ recreations struggle against normally. 
 

I’ve changed to positive and lowered the tempo and removed counter to try and get the S passing pattern going. I will say attacking with counter and high tempo is a brilliant watch. 
 

slightly annoying but I think any tactic with one striker struggles if they don’t have an advance forward in this game. Think I’m gonna try it with CF attack with ppm drops deeper to receive the ball. 
 

Trequtista is a really good idea. It does play like mitoma in game. 
 

Even with the shoot more often selected on players they do seem to pass it often when presented with a tap in chance which is good to see. 
 

cheers @1twoQ

[1twoQ]

54 minutes ago, Irn Rvd said:

slightly annoying but I think any tactic with one striker struggles if they don’t have an advance forward in this game. Think I’m gonna try it with CF attack with ppm drops deeper to receive the ball. 

Yeah I've noticed the same. CF on support dropped way too deep and CF on attack tried too many risky passes or dribbles and both ended up on the flanks trying to ping in a cross to no one for too often for my liking. The only real success I was able to find is an AF. Absolutely has to have 'plays with back to goal' to get any sort of dropping deep, hold up play out of an AF though.

 

54 minutes ago, Irn Rvd said:

I’ve changed to positive and lowered the tempo and removed counter to try and get the S passing pattern going. 

Without counter ticked you definitely get more RDZ type passing but I've found my squad unable to get nearly enough shots off to be a real Brighton recreation. I'll have to give it another try though, I don't think I've given it a real try after switching the tactic to an attacking mentality. 

On the topic of mentality - I love the passing i get out of this tactic when it's on defensive or cautious but it makes the press far too passive. 

54 minutes ago, Irn Rvd said:

This plays really well. Not tested against a super team yet which is where I think RDZ recreations struggle against normally. 

See the image below from my recent game against Man City:

 

Yes you could argue that we got a tad lucky. They had more shots, a higher XG and a higher XG per shot, but a fairly large number of their shots came from pretty far outside the box. They scored a screamer sure, but what can you do? One of those goals you just kinda tip your hat & their other goal came from a corner. What I'm really happy about is the complete lack of involvement from Haaland. He finished the game on a 6.3. Yes he had a few decent chances, but nothing so crazy. 

 

Glad to hear that you like how to plays! Keep us updated on how your tweaks and playthrough goes!

Edited August 7, 2023 by 1twoQ

[Irn Rvd]

6 hours ago, 1twoQ said:

Yeah I've noticed the same. CF on support dropped way too deep and CF on attack tried too many risky passes or dribbles and both ended up on the flanks trying to ping in a cross to no one for too often for my liking. The only real success I was able to find is an AF. Absolutely has to have 'plays with back to goal' to get any sort of dropping deep, hold up play out of an AF though.

 

Without counter ticked you definitely get more RDZ type passing but I've found my squad unable to get nearly enough shots off to be a real Brighton recreation. I'll have to give it another try though, I don't think I've given it a real try after switching the tactic to an attacking mentality. 

On the topic of mentality - I love the passing i get out of this tactic when it's on defensive or cautious but it makes the press far too passive. 

See the image below from my recent game against Man City:

 

Yes you could argue that we got a tad lucky. They had more shots, a higher XG and a higher XG per shot, but a fairly large number of their shots came from pretty far outside the box. They scored a screamer sure, but what can you do? One of those goals you just kinda tip your hat & their other goal came from a corner. What I'm really happy about is the complete lack of involvement from Haaland. He finished the game on a 6.3. Yes he had a few decent chances, but nothing so crazy. 

 

Glad to hear that you like how to plays! Keep us updated on how your tweaks and playthrough goes!

Fantastic. What a win. They always seem to score set pieces don’t they!?!? 
 

I played Bayern in the champions league away and they won 1-0. Keeper howler. Tactic was very solid and we looked dangerous throughout. That was with the higher tempo. 
 

your tactic plays some brilliant stuff I must say. It might just be impossible in the game, but with higher tempo they pass is around nicely but there is no baiting the opposition really. Lowering the tempo though seems to make it difficult to create chances. Going to fiddle around again when I have time.
 

Brainstorming ideas, I reckon with slower tempo and three playmakers (and play through the middle) it just makes it super slow and obvious. So you may be on to something with all three combined with higher tempo as I’m 100% sure you need play through the middle for it to be a de zerbi recreation. 
 

those pass maps are brilliant btw. 

[Irn Rvd]

@1twoQstroke of genius with the trequista. I’ve ended up with one both sides with slightly different pIs. Change striker to pf support and getting some lethal combos

[1twoQ]

5 hours ago, Irn Rvd said:

@1twoQstroke of genius with the trequista. I’ve ended up with one both sides with slightly different pIs. Change striker to pf support and getting some lethal combos

Funnily enough that was the first setup I tried! I loved the link up between the front 4 playing with that setup. 

 

It's probably a better RDZ replication, but maybe not a better Brighton under RDZ replication, at less for the previous season. Ferguson & Welbeck lead the frequent starters in shots per 90 and as a PF(S) they just weren't getting the amount of shots to replicate that how I wanted. I haven't tried it lately though, last I tried I was on a balanced mentality I'll have to give it a few games to see it. 

I also really loved how PF(D) played both offensively and defensively, just not enough end product from the striker outside of trying a ball behind the defense for one of the other front 3.

Glad things are working for you. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by 1twoQ

[1twoQ]

8 hours ago, Irn Rvd said:

t with higher tempo they pass is around nicely but there is no baiting the opposition really. Lowering the tempo though seems to make it difficult to create chances. Going to fiddle around again when I have time.

Applying the changes in my original post helps out with baiting the press but it does tend to lead to the ball sticking in the middle defensive 3rd. Chances are too rare. I'm still trying to work it out better too. 

 

I've found putting the mentality on cautious to help a bit without overly gutting the press like defensive mentality does still trying to find a better solution though. 

 

It's the main thing I'm not happy with and am close to saying it's just a match engine limitation, but not quite ready to give it up yet. 

 

One thing I've been interested in trying but haven't yet is using the editor to give Dunk the dictates tempo trait to see if that'll cause him to slow down the game a bit more often. I'll try that out soon to see if it does anything. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by 1twoQ

[hotredabyss]

Em 01/08/2023 em 02:08, 1twoQ disse:

I played around with a lot of combinations but this is what I finally settled on:

 

The distribute to specific team-mate is aimed at dunk, but distribute to CB's works just as well. Was just trying to get Dunk more touches/completed passes per game this way.

If the opposition is really trying to push down the wings with aggressively overlapping fullbacks, or just has really skilled wide players I'll typically change the invite crosses instruction to stop crosses, but otherwise invite crosses seems to protect the middle of the pitch better and keep the defense more compact.

Against opposition that really doesn't want to press I'll take the more direct passing off the midfielders or even switch it to shorter passing in extreme cases to get a slower buildup to try to really emphasize baiting them to press. If doing this I'll usually also add take less risk to the left centerback and change Dunk to a BPD and give him more direct passing to occasionally get him to try a riskier pass to get through the press we've hopefully baited them into, and give him dribble more so if they're still not pressing he'll break the lines himself and force someone to pick him up. In these cases I'll usually change Gross to a volante (s) to encourage him to drop less and offer more space for dunk to dribble in to and offer a more progressive passing option. 

 

I wanted something that gave a fairly accurate Brighton recreation while still working decently enough in the match engine. 

The main things I wanted to replicate were obviously the way Brighton plays out of the back to try to bait the press before passing through it, a nice 2-4-4 shape in buildup that can morph all the way into a 2-2-6 in camping situations, overall high possession numbers, overall high shot totals, a fairly similar number of shots between the front 4 & Mitoma and March having a high number of progressive carries.

 

IRL Brighton finished first in shots per game, 3rd in possession 5th lowest shots against per game, 4th highest goals for and 10th lowest goals against per game. With the above setup I'm able to get consistently top 5 in shots, possession & goals for.

 

The best I've been able to get shots against wise is around 8th-10th lowest. Not sure how to get that number better while still maintaining the rest but overall this is the setup I've gone with. I'm open to ideas to try and make it more solid defensively if it doesn't take too much away from the recreation aspects listed above.

 

Give it a go and let me know what you think!

This is sexy, been only the 2 first games but against stronger sides than me ( it's the second division of La Liga tbh ) a draw and a win away against the 1° on the table, but im seeing a pretty fun football. Im looking forward to use it till the end of the season and may adapt somethings, and while that may gets far from the point of the topic, it did gave me a good base

[Irn Rvd]

10 hours ago, 1twoQ said:

Funnily enough that was the first setup I tried! I loved the link up between the front 4 playing with that setup. 

 

It's probably a better RDZ replication, but maybe not a better Brighton under RDZ replication, at less for the previous season. Ferguson & Welbeck lead the frequent starters in shots per 90 and as a PF(S) they just weren't getting the amount of shots to replicate that how I wanted. I haven't tried it lately though, last I tried I was on a balanced mentality I'll have to give it a few games to see it. 

I also really loved how PF(D) played both offensively and defensively, just not enough end product from the striker outside of trying a ball behind the defense for one of the other front 3.

Glad things are working for you. 

Love how they are pretty much a winger and inside forward combined. They make runs in behind which I’ve hardly ever seen from an inside forward. 
 

you are definitely right about the end product. Sometimes get 5 CCCs a game and others 28 shots off target lol. 
 

what did you do about the AM sort of just being a tight marker instead of closing the opposition down? I’m asked him to man mark the cdm or other centre back to try and counteract this. I’ve tried to press like RDZ but it doesn’t seem to work at all. Think they press in a 4132 shape.

 

[1twoQ]

5 hours ago, Irn Rvd said:

what did you do about the AM sort of just being a tight marker instead of closing the opposition down? I’m asked him to man mark the cdm or other centre back to try and counteract this. I’ve tried to press like RDZ but it doesn’t seem to work at all. Think they press in a 4132 shape.

 

2 answers:

1) I'm not good at watching the off ball stuff IRL so honestly I have no idea how they actually press. I was able to find this https://theathletic.com/4520415/2023/05/15/arsenal-brighton-tactics-breakdown/ saying they pressed in a 442 with the LCB man marking the free midfielder in Arsenals 433 shape. 

I'd imagine you'd try to set this up by asking the striker to mark the LCB, the AMC to mark the RCB, the T to mark the RFB, and the IW to mark the LFB. Combine this with asking the 2 DM's to mark tighter and either putting your LCB to man mark the right side #8 or maybe just putting him on CB (Stopper) to get him to step up more. But this all leads me to point number 2...

2) I've long since given up getting a realistic pressing structure in FM and just kind of let them do what they want defensively. Whenever I start tweaking PI's and/or OI's to get what i think should be realistic it just makes the defense awful lol

Let me know if you find a good solution. I'm sure it's possible. I've seen The Cult of FM on youtube do some great defensive tweaking but I am not good at it. 

Edited August 8, 2023 by 1twoQ

[Mutumba]

There is a tactic on FM-Base that is also a RDZ tactic. It has similarities with yours in terms of PPM. But he is using direct passes and lower risk on his cbs.

Might be good to check out:

https://fm-base.co.uk/resources/roberto-de-zerbi-unbelievably-majestic.8332/

Spoiler

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Mutumba

[Irn Rvd]

6 minutes ago, Mutumba said:

There is a tactic on FM-Base that is also a RDZ tactic. It has similarities with yours in terms of PPM. But he is using direct passes and lower risk on his cbs.

Might be good to check out:

https://fm-base.co.uk/resources/roberto-de-zerbi-unbelievably-majestic.8332/

  Hide contents

 

Wow this looks very promising. It’s only gonna work if it’s an outside the box idea lol

 

cheers mate!

Edited August 8, 2023 by Irn Rvd

[Irn Rvd]

1 hour ago, 1twoQ said:

2 answers:

1) I'm not good at watching the off ball stuff IRL so honestly I have no idea how they actually press. I was able to find this https://theathletic.com/4520415/2023/05/15/arsenal-brighton-tactics-breakdown/ saying they pressed in a 442 with the LCB man marking the free midfielder in Arsenals 433 shape. 

I'd imagine you'd try to set this up by asking the striker to mark the LCB, the AMC to mark the RCB, the T to mark the RFB, and the IW to mark the LFB. Combine this with asking the 2 DM's to mark tighter and either putting your LCB to man mark the right side #8 or maybe just putting him on CB (Stopper) to get him to step up more. But this all leads me to point number 2...

2) I've long since given up getting a realistic pressing structure in FM and just kind of let them do what they want defensively. Whenever I start tweaking PI's and/or OI's to get what i think should be realistic it just makes the defense awful lol

Let me know if you find a good solution. I'm sure it's possible. I've seen The Cult of FM on youtube do some great defensive tweaking but I am not good at it. 

You are totally right. I’m clutching a straws thinking this will suddenly work lol

[Irn Rvd]

8 minutes ago, Mutumba said:

There is a tactic on FM-Base that is also a RDZ tactic. It has similarities with yours in terms of PPM. But he is using direct passes and lower risk on his cbs.

Might be good to check out:

https://fm-base.co.uk/resources/roberto-de-zerbi-unbelievably-majestic.8332/

  Reveal hidden contents

 

@1twoQearly signs suggest this is very promising. Good possesion stats too which is tough with getting all the concepts right. 

[1twoQ]

7 hours ago, Mutumba said:

There is a tactic on FM-Base that is also a RDZ tactic. It has similarities with yours in terms of PPM. But he is using direct passes and lower risk on his cbs.

Might be good to check out:

https://fm-base.co.uk/resources/roberto-de-zerbi-unbelievably-majestic.8332/

  Hide contents

 

From my limited testing so far it seems to work really well IF you have better players than the current Brighton squad. With Brighton most of my matches are ending with a very drab boring game of us passing around the back not looking to progress the ball, being very limited offensively when we do end up progressing past the midfield. Most matches end with us having around 9 shots and somewhere between 48 - 52% possession.

At Brentford

Spoiler

At Chelsea

Spoiler

Vs Manchester United

Spoiler

Mitoma is completely non-existent is most of these matches. Ferguson to March is the only link up that's working well. By January Ferguson is leading my team in assists and March is leading in goals. 

When you're playing against sides you're clearly better than though it can do some really impressive things. 

Vs Forest

Spoiler

It's a great idea, but doesn't seem to over achieve with the team it's looking to emulate. Could be something to switch over to when you have better players in the future of your saves though, or something to use against weaker sides to control games more. 

 

I'll keep playing with it to the end of the season though and see if any of my thoughts change.

[Delial]

I tested a lot of different settings in order to emulate what RDZ is making at Brighton, with the actual Brighton players. And, IMO, this is the point where we reach the limit of the ME. I manage to have a lot of possession but players aren't good enough to make it work. I had to be a bit more direct to win some games and not being relegated at the end of the first season!
I feel like it's a current ME problem. I often find it hard to play a high pressing build from the back style of play when you a bit of an underdog (Brighton is clearly not the worst team of PL but it's still far from the best ones too).

I find it hard not to sacrifice one RDZ principles, or two, when facing BIG 6 teams. Am I the only one to feel like that?

[Miragepredator]

my newer version, i have found it to replicate to a good level. traits needed across back 4/mid 2, are tries to play out from back, stops play,dwells on ball(CB's and if possible get it on GK,i used in-game editor only on GK to get these traits) , plays short simple passes and plays 1-2s. On the BtB i got comes deep, plays 1-2s, tries to play out from back and plays ball into feet. I switch between IF(A) and W(S) for the wingers. Ive felt the play down the middle has helped a lot in the play. Traits for wingers are, hugs line,beats opponent repeatedly, arrives late in box,wants ball to feet and likes to beat offside trap, you can also use the BtBs as SV's with same instructions

Edited August 8, 2023 by Miragepredator

[Miragepredator]

heres possession for league season (30 games in) and for last 3-4 games i have been trying to copy his shakhtar 4-3-3 shape

[1twoQ]

8 hours ago, 1twoQ said:

I'll keep playing with it to the end of the season though and see if any of my thoughts change.

Okay, I kept up with it until the end of the season and then ran a sim of my original tactic. 

 

Watching the games play out I prefer mine for playing teams in the top 6, the strikerless tactic linked above for teams in the bottom 6 and some combination of both for mid tier teams.

This makes sense, Brighton typically play a bit more direct against top teams as they don't need to lure them into pressing as most of those teams already want to press. and you'll obviously need to take more risks vs teams better than you, The strikerless tactic is definitely leading to way more control of games against bottom 6 opposition than my high tempo attacking tactic. 

 

To validate my eye test I re-ran a season with each tactic and recorded the goals for, goals against and points per game home and away. split into 3 groups of: top 6 teams, mid 7 teams, bottom 6 teams, comparing my tactic to the strikerless one:

 

Spoiler

As you can see my original one did much much better against the top sides, but much worse against bottom sides & mid table sides when facing them at their place.

I also want to point out that out of about 25 sims I've done with my tactic this is the worst it has ever performed defensively, but from watching the games I feel like even if I got a much more normal defensive season the general trend shown in the above charts would stay the same.

 

The high tempo, attacking nature of my tactic is obviously leading to much more open end to end football which I think RDZ would hate. Seems like using the more controlling version vs the bottom 6 and mid table sides away while using the more free playing attacking tactic at home vs mid table and against all top 6 sides would be more RDZ approved football.

Edited August 9, 2023 by 1twoQ

[Irn Rvd]

8 hours ago, 1twoQ said:

From my limited testing so far it seems to work really well IF you have better players than the current Brighton squad. With Brighton most of my matches are ending with a very drab boring game of us passing around the back not looking to progress the ball, being very limited offensively when we do end up progressing past the midfield. Most matches end with us having around 9 shots and somewhere between 48 - 52% possession.

At Brentford

  Hide contents

At Chelsea

  Hide contents

Vs Manchester United

  Hide contents

Mitoma is completely non-existent is most of these matches. Ferguson to March is the only link up that's working well. By January Ferguson is leading my team in assists and March is leading in goals. 

When you're playing against sides you're clearly better than though it can do some really impressive things. 

Vs Forest

  Hide contents

It's a great idea, but doesn't seem to over achieve with the team it's looking to emulate. Could be something to switch over to when you have better players in the future of your saves though, or something to use against weaker sides to control games more. 

 

I'll keep playing with it to the end of the season though and see if any of my thoughts change.

I think it’s the same for me to be honest. Pressing is almost non existent against 3 centre backs too which makes it so easy for them to pass over the top, and three centre back systems tend to have to strikers. So that’s not ideal lol

[Irn Rvd]

7 hours ago, Delial said:

I tested a lot of different settings in order to emulate what RDZ is making at Brighton, with the actual Brighton players. And, IMO, this is the point where we reach the limit of the ME. I manage to have a lot of possession but players aren't good enough to make it work. I had to be a bit more direct to win some games and not being relegated at the end of the first season!
I feel like it's a current ME problem. I often find it hard to play a high pressing build from the back style of play when you a bit of an underdog (Brighton is clearly not the worst team of PL but it's still far from the best ones too).

I find it hard not to sacrifice one RDZ principles, or two, when facing BIG 6 teams. Am I the only one to feel like that?

Yeah I’m the same. Can get by and win most games against poorer opposition but it’s really hard against the super teams to play a low tempo system with short passing and win unfortunately. Might not be the same for everyone though as you many people use higher tempos. 

[Irn Rvd]

1 hour ago, 1twoQ said:

Okay, I kept up with it until the end of the season and then ran a sim of my original tactic. 

 

Watching the games play out I prefer mine for playing teams in the top 6, the strikerless tactic linked above for teams in the bottom 6 and some combination of both for mid tier teams.

This makes sense, Brighton typically play a bit more direct against top teams as they don't need to lure them into pressing as most of those teams already want to press. and you'll obviously need to take more risks vs teams better than you, The strikerless tactic is definitely leading to way more control of games against bottom 6 opposition than my high tempo attacking tactic. 

 

To validate my eye test I re-ran a season with each tactic and recorded the goals for, goals against and points per game home and away of my tactic vs the strikerless one:

 

  Hide contents

As you can see my original one did much much better against the top sides, but much worse against bottom sides & mid table sides when facing them at their place.

I also want to point out that out of about 25 sims I've done with my tactic this is the worst it has ever performed defensively, but from watching the games I feel like even if I got a much more normal defensive season the general trend shown in the above charts would stay the same.

 

The high tempo, attacking nature of my tactic is obviously leading to much more open end to end football which I think RDZ would hate. Seems like using the more controlling version vs the bottom 6 and mid table sides away while using the more free playing attacking tactic at home vs mid table and against all top 6 sides would be more RDZ approved football.

Makes sense as the striker less one technically has four players that may make runs beyond the defence starting from deep which is helpful against defensive systems. 
 

I think yours is much more fun and realistic. 

[Irn Rvd]

6 hours ago, Miragepredator said:

my newer version, i have found it to replicate to a good level. traits needed across back 4/mid 2, are tries to play out from back, stops play,dwells on ball(CB's and if possible get it on GK,i used in-game editor only on GK to get these traits) , plays short simple passes and plays 1-2s. On the BtB i got comes deep, plays 1-2s, tries to play out from back and plays ball into feet. I switch between IF(A) and W(S) for the wingers. Ive felt the play down the middle has helped a lot in the play. Traits for wingers are, hugs line,beats opponent repeatedly, arrives late in box,wants ball to feet and likes to beat offside trap, you can also use the BtBs as SV's with same instructions

Interesting so you use ppms to make the inside forward more like wingers. Will take a look at this in game when I can.