[FM42] A brave new world - Historical divergence

[ChaosReiter]

I once had a thought a bit like yours, it's FM 1444, a medieval football world. Inspired by Paradox. But never start learning how to make a db myself. Love your idea, please keep going. 

[Wolf_pd]

On 12/02/2024 at 16:20, ChaosReiter said:

I once had a thought a bit like yours, it's FM 1444, a medieval football world. Inspired by Paradox.

And what stopped you?

[Wolf_pd]

I got a suggestion from someone via PM to just release whoever would end up in the wrong nation when I set the foreigner rules.

So say I set England no foreigners at all, I would release every single foreign player.

It is not a bad idea, but there is one caveat you need to keep in mind. Whenever you would release a player on a free day and the game gets updated with said player being transffered in the updated database, that transfer will go through. So this in a sense means you would end redoing, redoing and redoing your free transfers for all players that move during the transfer window.

Still, if I end up in a version where I am going to do most of the player movements, this is something I will keep in mind. So on that subject, thanks for the suggestion

[Wolf_pd]

I was looking at the editor files and the XML files that create was shown and editable in the editor.

The year 1800 for a history seems to be a setting in the editor. So maybe I will see if I can use it to add some earlier history

It could also mean that 2100 is not the last year for setting hosts in a tournament, so that could be a nice thing for people who want more.

[Wolf_pd]

More importantly, while working on the European history I am considering first doing a series of stories on the general history of Europe before I do a little more detailed part about each nation.

With the American nation there were much less points of divergence, mainly the result of the Napoleonic wars leading into the independence of various nations and the breaking of the union causing North America to break up.

History in Europe is much different with more points of divergence.

I am also slowly connecting the various African colonial histories into it so everybody stays close.

[Wolf_pd]

While writing the story of Europe, it is currently, Bonaparte, Napoleon Bonaparte, all around the clock. I am looking to do division of about 5-10 years (depending on precise historical happenings. So the first parts  should be mostly about the Napoleonic Wars in Europe and the Congress of Vienna with a big role for Klemens Wenzel Nepomuk Lothar, Prince of Metternich-Winneburg zu Beilstein.

[grade]

Is there any ideas of breaking up Russia apart to make smaller nations?

[Wolf_pd]

28 minutes ago, grade said:

Is there any ideas of breaking up Russia apart to make smaller nations?

Yes. Right now I have three in my mind.

[Jorgen]

6 hours ago, Wolf_pd said:

Yes. Right now I have three in my mind.

Including Novgorod and Siberia?

[Wolf_pd]

No spoilers, but historically you will notice that Novgorod was a wee bit earlier than 1800. Siberia, who knows

[Jorgen]

10 hours ago, Wolf_pd said:

No spoilers, but historically you will notice that Novgorod was a wee bit earlier than 1800. Siberia, who knows

I know, but as everything is possible, it could've survived 😉

 

I am looking forward to your new stories 

[Wolf_pd]

Sometimes an option presents itself to you

The Dutch province will see some change. This was already in my planned Historical Divergence for Frisia, but instead the Deltaworks created after the Storm of 1953, this ups the ante. The graphic btw is how Dutch engineers were brainstorming for how to protect the Dutch coast while allowing the rivers to still flow into sea. If the sea level is higher, the water will be blown into the sea.

[XaW]

3 minutes ago, Wolf_pd said:

Sometimes an option presents itself to you

The Dutch province will see some change. This was already in my planned Historical Divergence for Frisia, but instead the Deltaworks created after the Storm of 1953, this ups the ante. The graphic btw is how Dutch engineers were brainstorming for how to protect the Dutch coast while allowing the rivers to still flow into sea. If the sea level is higher, the water will be blown into the sea.

How about, and hear me out here, the Northern European Enclosure Dam and bringing back Doggerland?

[Wolf_pd]

You will not be surprised that one of the persons involved was a Dutch person. Afterall, Dutch people are a cross between humans and beavers.

And about Doggerland, that's already being worked on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea_Wind_Power_Hub

[MRC]

vor 18 Stunden schrieb Wolf_pd:

Sometimes an option presents itself to you

The Dutch province will see some change. This was already in my planned Historical Divergence for Frisia, but instead the Deltaworks created after the Storm of 1953, this ups the ante. The graphic btw is how Dutch engineers were brainstorming for how to protect the Dutch coast while allowing the rivers to still flow into sea. If the sea level is higher, the water will be blown into the sea.

I love this!

Did the recent editor update break any of your recent work in a major way?

Edited March 6 by MRC

[Wolf_pd]

On 06/03/2024 at 13:45, MRC said:

I love this!

Did the recent editor update break any of your recent work in a major way?

No issues.

[Wolf_pd]

I found some videos that show overviews of nations per year which massively helps to get some new inspiration. It also shows borders during wars and conflicts which makes settings scenarios much easier.

Things have been quiet because I have had a massive pneumonia this month. I am still recovering but improving day by day.

[Wolf_pd]

So I was working a bit on the Frisian storyline for fun, and it got me thinking. Despite all the ideas I have, I could have never written down the chaos at Ajax at the moment. Noone would have believed it to be realistic

[Jorgen]

3 hours ago, Wolf_pd said:

So I was working a bit on the Frisian storyline for fun, and it got me thinking. Despite all the ideas I have, I could have never written down the chaos at Ajax at the moment. Noone would have believed it to be realistic

It is always like this at Ajax and Bayern München (nicknamed FC Hollywood for a reason). It can go on flawless with great results for a decade and then everything turns into dust and ashes for years. We have to sit it out and hope we can compete with the best again sooner than later.

[Wolf_pd]

On 03/04/2024 at 16:29, Jorgen said:

It is always like this at Ajax and Bayern München (nicknamed FC Hollywood for a reason). It can go on flawless with great results for a decade and then everything turns into dust and ashes for years. We have to sit it out and hope we can compete with the best again sooner than later.

I bought the book, Ajax in crisis, but hoping for an addendum

In other news I am testing several rule changes in England to see the effect. There will be some silly ones, some destructive ones and some downright evil ones (not just for England btw, that's just the testing ground).

One I am interested in to see is how a max length for contracts would work together with a max amount of wage. Also, for people who don't think the wage cap doesn't work. Reason it usually doesn't work is because people do apply the wage cap, but they almost every time forget that the current contracts of players are not changed because of that, you need to change them by hand. If you change the max wage or wage cap, and you then reset wages to 0, the game will automatically apply the max wage.

[Jorgen]

OMG, not an addendum! 😂

 

If you like quirky rules, check out the play-ofss in Bulgaria. I did a few seasons there in FM18. Even the winner of the relegation play-offs could win a ticket for Europe.

[Wolf_pd]

On 05/04/2024 at 22:51, Jorgen said:

OMG, not an addendum! 😂

 

If you like quirky rules, check out the play-ofss in Bulgaria. I did a few seasons there in FM18. Even the winner of the relegation play-offs could win a ticket for Europe.

I was actually looking at those rules from Belgium from a few years back.

Belgium is being divided so it would be nice if someone gets those nutter rules from them.

One thing I am paying attention though due to the width of the project is how to keep it running on people’s pc’s.
It would be about 150 competition files plus 15-20 more competition and data files and while I have a big boy machine on my desk, not everybody will have or want to spend on that.

History is progressing btw. It’s just that I got lost while nosing through East Asian, South Asian and South East Asian history.

[Jorgen]

3 hours ago, Wolf_pd said:

I was actually looking at those rules from Belgium from a few years back.

Belgium is being divided so it would be nice if someone gets those nutter rules from them.

One thing I am paying attention though due to the width of the project is how to keep it running on people’s pc’s.
It would be about 150 competition files plus 15-20 more competition and data files and while I have a big boy machine on my desk, not everybody will have or want to spend on that.

History is progressing btw. It’s just that I got lost while nosing through East Asian, South Asian and South East Asian history.

I think only the first loading times at game creation would be longer with many files and many changes, but as long as people can freely choose which competitions they choose after they've loaded your world, I think there wouldn't be any problems.

 

I have a laptop that is 8 years old now, and I can load 150+ editor files without any problems. Even running 20 competitionsat the same time is not much of a problem. What makes my game slow is nations that have lots of subdivisions (like conferences and regional divisions) that are on the same level.

[Wolf_pd]

10 minutes ago, Jorgen said:

I think only the first loading times at game creation would be longer with many files and many changes, but as long as people can freely choose which competitions they choose after they've loaded your world, I think there wouldn't be any problems.

 

I have a laptop that is 8 years old now, and I can load 150+ editor files without any problems. Even running 20 competitionsat the same time is not much of a problem. What makes my game slow is nations that have lots of subdivisions (like conferences and regional divisions) that are on the same level.

So loading all nations, and depending on which nations do have more subdivisions, you don’t load those wider levels, would work for performance?

That’s then one that can be covered with installation tips rather than limiting my build, I want to play Romania with all counties on the second level

[Jorgen]

1 hour ago, Wolf_pd said:

So loading all nations, and depending on which nations do have more subdivisions, you don’t load those wider levels, would work for performance?

That’s then one that can be covered with installation tips rather than limiting my build, I want to play Romania with all counties on the second level

I would let the game load all of your files, but after that, I would only select the nations I plan to play in at my game setup. They others are not needed anymore for the entire world to work, unless you have some files that really depend on eachother like teams from Reunion and Guadeloupe can only play the French Cup if you load France. So then I would choose accoding to what I want in my game. Do I want to do a deep dive in one nation and go from subdivision 6A to CL glory? If so I would load less other leagues. If I don't want to play in those subdivs, I wouldn't load them at all to keep my game fast all the time. Two or three sublevels is not much of a problem, but in a lot of nations the grew almost exponentially and that makes everything sluggish.

Edited April 7 by Jorgen

[Wolf_pd]

Because of the way the files work it is going to be different in my case. That’s something I have noticed with the Iron Curtain as well.

[Jorgen]

5 minutes ago, Wolf_pd said:

Because of the way the files work it is going to be different in my case. That’s something I have noticed with the Iron Curtain as well.

I have edited and summarized my response a bit.

[oche balboa]

On 05/04/2024 at 10:13, Wolf_pd said:

I bought the book, Ajax in crisis, but hoping for an addendum

In other news I am testing several rule changes in England to see the effect. There will be some silly ones, some destructive ones and some downright evil ones (not just for England btw, that's just the testing ground).

One I am interested in to see is how a max length for contracts would work together with a max amount of wage. Also, for people who don't think the wage cap doesn't work. Reason it usually doesn't work is because people do apply the wage cap, but they almost every time forget that the current contracts of players are not changed because of that, you need to change them by hand. If you change the max wage or wage cap, and you then reset wages to 0, the game will automatically apply the max wage.

What sort of rule changes? 

 

 

[Wolf_pd]

6 hours ago, oche balboa said:

What sort of rule changes? 

Currently,
limiting amount of transfer allowed per transfer window
no foreigners (I know the effect from Eastern European teams, but English teams are bigger so different test)
Max wage per player
Max wage per team
Max amount of contract years set to 1

[Wolf_pd]

While editing West Germany for the Iron Curtain I was thinking on how I can make things easier for me. It does mean rethinking my local regions.

[Wolf_pd]

On 08/04/2024 at 07:30, Wolf_pd said:

Currently,
limiting amount of transfer allowed per transfer window
no foreigners (I know the effect from Eastern European teams, but English teams are bigger so different test)
Max wage per player
Max wage per team
Max amount of contract years set to 1

Limiting the amount of transfers does not entirely work, but question is whether I have set things up correctly.

[Jorgen]

23 hours ago, Wolf_pd said:

While editing West Germany for the Iron Curtain I was thinking on how I can make things easier for me. It does mean rethinking my local regions.

What kind of local regions did you have in mind?

Like within a new nations, i.e. Iberia del Sul and Iberia del Norte or more like Central-Europe and Kaukasus?

Edited April 15 by Jorgen

[Wolf_pd]

3 minutes ago, Jorgen said:

What kind of local regions did you have in mind?

Like withing a new nations, i.e. Iberia del Sul and Iberia del Norte or more like Central-Europe and Kaukasus?

More to the level that Austria has. It worked with the Länder like Tirol and Innsbruck, but the current setup has Kreisen. I am working through the regional divisions for West Germany and while the research is done well, rechecking them in FM24 with the new teams is a bit of a hassle.

[Jorgen]

21 hours ago, Wolf_pd said:

More to the level that Austria has. It worked with the Länder like Tirol and Innsbruck, but the current setup has Kreisen. I am working through the regional divisions for West Germany and while the research is done well, rechecking them in FM24 with the new teams is a bit of a hassle.

I don't really have an idea of what you mean exactly

[Wolf_pd]

Going from Level 1 Germany, Level 2 Oberliga Nord, Level 3 Verbandsliga Niedersachsen, Level 4 Landesliga Niedersachsen Ost, Level 5 Bezirksliga Hannover, Level 6 Kreisliga Hannover.

If your local region is Niedersachsen, it means that you still need to check for each team/city, where it is placed in the regional divisions for level 4, 5 and 6. That’s quite a bit of work (which I noticed again when working on West Germany this weekend). Looking it up for each team via Wikipedia isn’t possible, so you need to make a map, combine teams, a lot of admin. Instead of you do it via level 6, the Kreislevel Wikipedia will tell you exactly where you are and going levels up is pretty easy to find.

[Jorgen]

14 hours ago, Wolf_pd said:

Going from Level 1 Germany, Level 2 Oberliga Nord, Level 3 Verbandsliga Niedersachsen, Level 4 Landesliga Niedersachsen Ost, Level 5 Bezirksliga Hannover, Level 6 Kreisliga Hannover.

If your local region is Niedersachsen, it means that you still need to check for each team/city, where it is placed in the regional divisions for level 4, 5 and 6. That’s quite a bit of work (which I noticed again when working on West Germany this weekend). Looking it up for each team via Wikipedia isn’t possible, so you need to make a map, combine teams, a lot of admin. Instead of you do it via level 6, the Kreislevel Wikipedia will tell you exactly where you are and going levels up is pretty easy to find.

I know you like to tackle it very thoroughly and extensively, but don't make it too difficult for yourself.

There were always many problems with teams that ended up in other regions after promotion and relegation.

I believe that's solved with dynamic division size, but still.

[MRC]

Am 15.4.2024 um 23:36 schrieb Wolf_pd:

Going from Level 1 Germany, Level 2 Oberliga Nord, Level 3 Verbandsliga Niedersachsen, Level 4 Landesliga Niedersachsen Ost, Level 5 Bezirksliga Hannover, Level 6 Kreisliga Hannover.

If your local region is Niedersachsen, it means that you still need to check for each team/city, where it is placed in the regional divisions for level 4, 5 and 6. That’s quite a bit of work (which I noticed again when working on West Germany this weekend). Looking it up for each team via Wikipedia isn’t possible, so you need to make a map, combine teams, a lot of admin. Instead of you do it via level 6, the Kreislevel Wikipedia will tell you exactly where you are and going levels up is pretty easy to find.

Did you go this far down the leagues in Austria as well? Since you mentioned it before. I'm already buzzing!

It's definitely quite the hassle for Germany with the lack of information, but I can only agree with Jorgen - don't make it too much of a hassle for yourself unless it's necessary for you to tell the story the way you want to! (Also, dynamic relegation/dynamic division size really is a hassle, it has always been my personal nemesis and the reason why I never did Austria down to Level 6)
 

[Wolf_pd]

6 minutes ago, MRC said:

Did you go this far down the leagues in Austria as well? Since you mentioned it before. I'm already buzzing!

For the Iron Curtain for Austria, no, but that's because West Germany got a rebuild, while Austria will remain the same. Austria in the historical divergence sense though, well, they have quite a bit of teams, so there is more than enough opportunity for going much deeper than FM does right now.

[Wolf_pd]

Out of curiosity, a small poll (I can't add one to the thread), where are you from if you want to disclose that? Nation only, no city or more asked.
I have seen people from The Netherlands, France, Portugal, Austria, Australia, Norway and the UK (you are allowed to specify that ) in the thread so far. Curious who else are in here.

[XaW]

On 15/04/2024 at 23:36, Wolf_pd said:

Going from Level 1 Germany, Level 2 Oberliga Nord, Level 3 Verbandsliga Niedersachsen, Level 4 Landesliga Niedersachsen Ost, Level 5 Bezirksliga Hannover, Level 6 Kreisliga Hannover.

If your local region is Niedersachsen, it means that you still need to check for each team/city, where it is placed in the regional divisions for level 4, 5 and 6. That’s quite a bit of work (which I noticed again when working on West Germany this weekend). Looking it up for each team via Wikipedia isn’t possible, so you need to make a map, combine teams, a lot of admin. Instead of you do it via level 6, the Kreislevel Wikipedia will tell you exactly where you are and going levels up is pretty easy to find.

Just a comment about this, as I've done the same in Norway, it's a pain to get the regions correctly. And even if you do, the teams will move regional leagues to even out the numbers it seems. This seems to happen when say multiple teams from one region is relegated from the national level into the regionals, while the regions have fewer promotion spots. So it leads to certain regions being overcrowded and others lacking teams. I guess the game tries to even out the numbers, but it screws up regional leagues massively in my Norway file.  If you know of a way around this, feel free to enlighten me!

[Wolf_pd]

I am probably going to work with overlapping regions which should make the issue less of a problem, but I am aware that this headache exists.

[Jorgen]

To answer your other question: I am from The Netherlands. (but you already knew that)

Edited April 17 by Jorgen

[grade]

Portugal... If my team being SL Benfica was any clue.

Shout out to Wrexham...

Edited April 17 by grade

[gaucharro]

hace 10 horas, Wolf_pd dijo:

Out of curiosity, a small poll (I can't add one to the thread), where are you from if you want to disclose that? Nation only, no city or more asked.
I have seen people from The Netherlands, France, Portugal, Austria, Australia, Norway and the UK (you are allowed to specify that ) in the thread so far. Curious who else are in here.

Argentina over here

[XaW]

13 hours ago, Wolf_pd said:

Norway

I think I've outed myself as Norwegian here before!  

[Fire0Fart]

13 hours ago, Wolf_pd said:

Out of curiosity, a small poll (I can't add one to the thread), where are you from if you want to disclose that? Nation only, no city or more asked.
I have seen people from The Netherlands, France, Portugal, Austria, Australia, Norway and the UK (you are allowed to specify that ) in the thread so far. Curious who else are in here.

Croatia here.

[sherwinriga]

17 hours ago, Wolf_pd said:

Out of curiosity, a small poll (I can't add one to the thread), where are you from if you want to disclose that? Nation only, no city or more asked.
I have seen people from The Netherlands, France, Portugal, Austria, Australia, Norway and the UK (you are allowed to specify that ) in the thread so far. Curious who else are in here.

Philippines

[Wolf_pd]

Oh cool, we are much more diverse than I thought! 

[sherwinriga]

1 minute ago, Wolf_pd said:

Oh cool, we are much more diverse than I thought! 

Yep. I have been following this thread to see if any progress in Asia-Pacific, but hopefully, you'll have some plans about balkanized Philippines and possibly, Japan. I love the real life PFL and J.League, which they're more competitive in the recent years.

[Wolf_pd]

20 minutes ago, sherwinriga said:

Yep. I have been following this thread to see if any progress in Asia-Pacific, but hopefully, you'll have some plans about balkanized Philippines and possibly, Japan. I love the real life PFL and J.League, which they're more competitive in the recent years.

Not yet in Asia, but that's because Europe is complicated. Napoleon is a bit of a busy beaver.