Jump to content

A 3-4-3 non-WB experiment


Recommended Posts

I play a nearly identical setup (same formation, slightly different roles) which I also pulled forward from my FM16 save. I absolutely love it. It works well as the underdog and as the stronger team. It's by far my favorite formation in FM21. Played 10+ seasons on a journeyman save and its been my primary formation for the entire save. It's so good, I abandoned my normal "American Football" style playbook for it. 

I recommend DM(s) with hold position for both the DMCs, it's a great holding midfielder role and they work great together as a double pivot. I also have them both as close down more, tackle harder, and mark tighter. They play a bit of a BWM/Stopper role on defense which allows my CDs more freedom to just focus on shutting down through balls, passes over the top, and blocking shots (I further encourage this by having the CDs all close down less). It also gets them (the DMCs) involved in protecting the flanks if/when the wide Midfielders get caught up field or dont track back enough in defense.

I think this will help some of your defensive concerns. 

In terms of the AMC, I like the SS(a), but I kicked him out to one side and moved the supporting striker (I use a DLF(s)) to the center spot. It adds just a little assymetric variation, but more importantly gets the AMC out of the middle, where he can get shut down too easily by an opposing DMC -- which is common as you face more defensive teams.

In FM16, that AMC could charge down the middle of the field and run on to balls between the opposing CDs and so he worked well right in the middle of the field. In FM21 the defender AI is good enough to shut that down that run up the middle more often than not. Also having the supporting striker in the central spot, turns the supporting striker into the extra man in the box and forces the CDs to step up to defend him. This frees up both the attacking striker and and AMC to make runs behind the CDs when the CDs step up to challenge the supporting striker. 

It will also help with your issue with the AMC not finding space since with him off to one side he can play with the wife midfielder on that side and create overloads in the channel when the central areas are too congested.

EDIT SCREENSHOT:

 

20211010143418_1.jpg

Edited by VinceLombardi
Link to post
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, VinceLombardi said:

I play a nearly identical setup (same formation, slightly different roles) which I also pulled forward from my FM16 save. I absolutely love it. It works well as the underdog and as the stronger team. It's by far my favorite formation in FM21. Played 10+ seasons on a journeyman save and its been my primary formation for the entire save. It's so good, I abandoned my normal "American Football" style playbook for it. 

I recommend DM(s) with hold position for both the DMCs, it's a great holding midfielder role and they work great together as a double pivot. I also have them both as close down more, tackle harder, and mark tighter. They play a bit of a BWM/Stopper role on defense which allows my CDs more freedom to just focus on shutting down through balls, passes over the top, and blocking shots (I further encourage this by having the CDs all close down less). It also gets them (the DMCs) involved in protecting the flanks if/when the wide Midfielders get caught up field or dont track back enough in defense.

I think this will help some of your defensive concerns. 

In terms of the AMC, I like the SS(a), but I kicked him out to one side and moved the supporting striker (I use a DLF(s)) to the center spot. It adds just a little assymetric variation, but more importantly gets the AMC out of the middle, where he can get shut down too easily by an opposing DMC -- which is common as you face more defensive teams.

In FM16, that AMC could charge down the middle of the field and run on to balls between the opposing CDs and so he worked well right in the middle of the field. In FM21 the defender AI is good enough to shut that down that run up the middle more often than not. Also having the supporting striker in the central spot, turns the supporting striker into the extra man in the box and forces the CDs to step up to defend him. This frees up both the attacking striker and and AMC to make runs behind the CDs when the CDs step up to challenge the supporting striker. 

It will also help with your issue with the AMC not finding space since with him off to one side he can play with the wife midfielder on that side and create overloads in the channel when the central areas are too congested.

EDIT SCREENSHOT:

 

20211010143418_1.jpg

that's very very interesting! how do you find the balance on the left flank as I assume the AF must be pretty far apart from the left WM?

Link to post
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, coach vahid said:

It makes me think about some old thread...The Fantatista and the thing with the half spaces...

Always a pleasure to discover your theories. I'm always on fm19. But i'm glad to read you.

good to have you around mate and thanks for sticking by :) yes, definitely, the fantasista experiment with Ajax is one of my all time favourite saves

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just tested the final version of the tactic with Sassuolo (media prediction: 9 in Serie A). Only made 2 transfers - sold Boga and brought Almada in as he could act as back up for either AM or ST positions,

abd83c8249c7eca4ef1642f7918ba602.png

b980a480014678d43803d3113e16f60d.png

592ad92af4530a292a4f8d8d70415429.png

Link to post
Share on other sites

On 11/10/2021 at 00:58, LPQR said:

that's very very interesting! how do you find the balance on the left flank as I assume the AF must be pretty far apart from the left WM?

My entire gameplan is about getting my  attacking players favorable 1v1 matchups with defenders, isolating that matchup to prevent other defenders from assisting their teammates, and then giving my players the creative freedom to beat their man. 

My buildup is largely about getting the wide midfielders or the AMC the ball in the middle third and allowing them to carry it into/near the box. Meanwhile my other players move forward and prevent the defender nearest the ball carrier from getting assistance from other defenders, creating a 1v1 opportunity. From there, my WMs/AMC are given absolute creative liberty to dictate how they want to play to beat their man. They can dribble, pass, cross, whatever out of that situation -- which is a big reason I use the wide midfielder role, as it largely a blank canvas and the only wide role that doesn't have a cut inside/go wide or cross more/from byline instructions. The support duty with get further forward is a solid, aggressive mentality without getting too single minded in attack. If they can't win the matchup, I want them to pass back into the DMC or wide CD to recycle possession and try again. 

The AMC off-center to the right creates a natural overload to that side which pulls the defense in that direction. This leaves the left midfielder with the entire flank all to himself. He is a little isolated during build up, but it's by design. It also can create a lot of opportunities where he is left entirely undefended around the top corner of the box. Plus as the attack reaches the opposing box, that space is reduced and the left midfielder has plenty of opportunities to link up with the AF(a), DLF(s) or the left DMC(s).

I tried to record some highlights of it in action, but I couldn't figure it out, so I will post some screenshots showing what I mean in another post.

 

Edited by VinceLombardi
Link to post
Share on other sites

This is just a quick shot of my typical buildup as we get the ball forward. I used to run a PF(a)/PF(s) striker pairing like you, but I changed to a AF(a)/DLF(s) as I found the Pressing Forward roles are a little slow in getting to their duties in the attack . They do offer a lot more in defense and certainly can understand the choice, but I want a guy always available for an outlet pass (the DLF(s)) so that my CBs don't just hoof the ball clear all the time and a guy always challenging the defense to make a run on goal (the AF(a)). The SS(a) off center to the right pulls the defense to the right (and often the DLF as well) and creates a bit of an overload to that side. The SS(a) and WM(s) play the ball very well between each other while moving forward at pace and are very effective at carrying the ball into the attacking third. Between 60-80% of my possessions work up the right channel in this manner. The left midfielder also gets a good number of opportunities as he has loads of space and as soon as he breaks past the opposing midfield, he can carry the ball into the opposing third by either sticking to the left or cutting inside and carrying through the middle.

Spoiler

1674726615_EarlyBuildup.thumb.jpg.cd354c50b2ea2cc05238495b84c4c4c3.jpg

This first sequence shows how moving the supporting striker into the middle of the field can help free up the attacking striker for a run on goal by pulling the opposing DC forward. The DLF receives a header, which he puts back to the DMC, who knocks it forward to the freed AF(a). The initial attack breaks down and the AF(a) gets himself a bit isolated, but the ML quickly runs up to support the attack by offering an outlet for a back pass at the top of the box. The ML is in pretty good position to take a shot, but also has 3 other teammates nearby who are also free in the space created by the initial run by the AF(a). The ML passes to the DMC(s) who has come up to sit just outside of the box and the DMC makes a good shot for a score. A more conservative DMC duty wouldn't have had him forward enough to support the attack in the middle, which is needed as the attacking AMC is regularly too far forward to be a reliable option in the middle, and without the "hold position" instruction the DMC likely would have found himself pulled all the way into the box with a lot less space to work with.

Spoiler

133724403_DLFExtraMan1.thumb.jpg.bc086fab4eb32644256e3bd3a9c7b6c6.jpg

2073030801_DLFExtraMan2.thumb.jpg.247085943b079afc6bc4cda4b47b4355.jpg

711835593_DLFExtraMan3.thumb.jpg.9049fc419e3bb31f14b680dbccb569c4.jpg

521788275_DLFExtraMan4.thumb.jpg.74e2292d1962dfb72ae1f9b2ddadcbb2.jpg

932113925_DLFExtraMan5.thumb.jpg.8d7ad4ffa115b23d3d8cf50d0570efb4.jpg

This sequence shows how the DLF and AF can still play solid defense, particularly in the middle third, forcing a turnover, and then immediately enter into the attack. Again, the DLF plays the extra man and destabilizes the defense, freeing a number of runners on goal. The defense recovers and makes a good play, but are unable to make a perfect pass to start a counter attack. This enables the WM(s) to tackle the ball off the would be attacker and then he uses his speed and absolute creative freedom to run across the entire field and up the opposite flank. In doing so, he takes advantage of the defense being out of position from the previous attack, and creates space for the other WM(s) to receive the ball with space to shoot. 

Spoiler

148795571_Crossfield1.thumb.jpg.ceb5599508be6f101a2fe8ed3fb94d94.jpg

1739137330_Crossfield2.thumb.jpg.bcd18287b7510d01f1095633d4d6c9e0.jpg

2038907190_Crossfield3.thumb.jpg.7168fc2abfe91fbc208a310d106c90e5.jpg

1461982924_Crossfield4.thumb.jpg.b406a39478413bd987181fac84efbb69.jpg

989446976_Crossfield5.thumb.jpg.56049d6030aef544fb1c78b5e627b47f.jpg

1050048074_Crossfield6.thumb.jpg.f41cef78803c7cd463491ca7b14d7bb0.jpg

389151232_Crossfield7.thumb.jpg.fbdc04c8ac9407949e4ce82796da960a.jpg

1675455236_Crossfield8.thumb.jpg.b3c88cdedbd64809d09c8a616b3c9c8e.jpg

740491717_Crossfield9.thumb.jpg.a8ecc05754ec24c69899d8ed0e78e1e1.jpg

82225155_Crossfield10.thumb.jpg.683f54f4d81d8a1d01f73456f00abb3f.jpg

2104225619_Crossfield11.thumb.jpg.a786663869c184f1caadcd4eb1a44bed.jpg

 

Edited by VinceLombardi
Link to post
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, VinceLombardi said:

This is just a quick shot of my typical buildup as we get the ball forward. I used to run a PF(a)/PF(s) striker pairing like you, but I changed to a AF(a)/DLF(s) as I found the Pressing Forward roles are a little slow in getting to their duties in the attack . They do offer a lot more in defense and certainly can understand the choice, but I want a guy always available for an outlet pass (the DLF(s)) so that my CBs don't just hoof the ball clear all the time and a guy always challenging the defense to make a run on goal (the AF(a)). The SS(a) off center to the right pulls the defense to the right (and often the DLF as well) and creates a bit of an overload to that side. The SS(a) and WM(s) play the ball very well between each other while moving forward at pace and are very effective at carrying the ball into the attacking third. Between 60-80% of my possessions work up the right channel in this manner. The left midfielder also gets a good number of opportunities as he has loads of space and as soon as he breaks past the opposing midfield, he can carry the ball into the opposing third by either sticking to the left or cutting inside and carrying through the middle.

  Reveal hidden contents

1674726615_EarlyBuildup.thumb.jpg.cd354c50b2ea2cc05238495b84c4c4c3.jpg

This first sequence shows how moving the supporting striker into the middle of the field can help free up the attacking striker for a run on goal by pulling the opposing DC forward. The DLF receives a header, which he puts back to the DMC, who knocks it forward to the freed AF(a). The initial attack breaks down and the AF(a) gets himself a bit isolated, but the ML quickly runs up to support the attack by offering an outlet for a back pass at the top of the box. The ML is in pretty good position to take a shot, but also has 3 other teammates nearby who are also free in the space created by the initial run by the AF(a). The ML passes to the DMC(s) who has come up to sit just outside of the box and the DMC makes a good shot for a score. A more conservative DMC duty wouldn't have had him forward enough to support the attack in the middle, which is needed as the attacking AMC is regularly too far forward to be a reliable option in the middle, and without the "hold position" instruction the DMC likely would have found himself pulled all the way into the box with a lot less space to work with.

  Reveal hidden contents

133724403_DLFExtraMan1.thumb.jpg.bc086fab4eb32644256e3bd3a9c7b6c6.jpg

2073030801_DLFExtraMan2.thumb.jpg.247085943b079afc6bc4cda4b47b4355.jpg

711835593_DLFExtraMan3.thumb.jpg.9049fc419e3bb31f14b680dbccb569c4.jpg

521788275_DLFExtraMan4.thumb.jpg.74e2292d1962dfb72ae1f9b2ddadcbb2.jpg

932113925_DLFExtraMan5.thumb.jpg.8d7ad4ffa115b23d3d8cf50d0570efb4.jpg

This sequence shows how the DLF and AF can still play solid defense, particularly in the middle third, forcing a turnover, and then immediately enter into the attack. Again, the DLF plays the extra man and destabilizes the defense, freeing a number of runners on goal. The defense recovers and makes a good play, but are unable to make a perfect pass to start a counter attack. This enables the WM(s) to tackle the ball off the would be attacker and then he uses his speed and absolute creative freedom to run across the entire field and up the opposite flank. In doing so, he takes advantage of the defense being out of position from the previous attack, and creates space for the other WM(s) to receive the ball with space to shoot. 

  Reveal hidden contents

148795571_Crossfield1.thumb.jpg.ceb5599508be6f101a2fe8ed3fb94d94.jpg

1739137330_Crossfield2.thumb.jpg.bcd18287b7510d01f1095633d4d6c9e0.jpg

2038907190_Crossfield3.thumb.jpg.7168fc2abfe91fbc208a310d106c90e5.jpg

1461982924_Crossfield4.thumb.jpg.b406a39478413bd987181fac84efbb69.jpg

989446976_Crossfield5.thumb.jpg.56049d6030aef544fb1c78b5e627b47f.jpg

1050048074_Crossfield6.thumb.jpg.f41cef78803c7cd463491ca7b14d7bb0.jpg

389151232_Crossfield7.thumb.jpg.fbdc04c8ac9407949e4ce82796da960a.jpg

1675455236_Crossfield8.thumb.jpg.b3c88cdedbd64809d09c8a616b3c9c8e.jpg

740491717_Crossfield9.thumb.jpg.a8ecc05754ec24c69899d8ed0e78e1e1.jpg

82225155_Crossfield10.thumb.jpg.683f54f4d81d8a1d01f73456f00abb3f.jpg

2104225619_Crossfield11.thumb.jpg.a786663869c184f1caadcd4eb1a44bed.jpg

 

Now that is what I call a quality post! Fantastic insight mate, it makes me want to go back to creating asymmetric systems and overloads. I am actually experimenting now with 2 AMs and have noticed a massive improvement in the link up play in the half spaces and the general involvement of the wide players. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, LPQR said:

Now that is what I call a quality post! Fantastic insight mate, it makes me want to go back to creating asymmetric systems and overloads. I am actually experimenting now with 2 AMs and have noticed a massive improvement in the link up play in the half spaces and the general involvement of the wide players. 

I really like the difference it makes. I find both the supporting striker and the AMC play better with that minor asymmetric adjustment. Personally, I like putting my wide guys on an island, but that's because of strategic roster and tactical goals I have. I like my wide players running with the ball, and that gives them the most space to do that.

Here is the play vs the press. The wide players on support stay back to assist in the build up and the DMC(s) with hold position stay back and keep that double pivot shape throughout the attack -- which I felt I lost with a roamer like the Regista. In this play they just bounce it around the middle third and then launch a speculative pass that ends up being good for a goal. These sorts of passes from my DMCs have a rather low success rate, but my shape means that even if it fails and the defense clears the ball, I am positioned well to recover the loose ball. And if it goes out for a corner, my DCs are super effective in the air and I'll happily keep trying my luck on the near post all day.

Spoiler

570228455_vsthepress1.thumb.jpg.ed7f831f9691f2bac76d0cc69e45fad6.jpg1769777505_vsthepress2.thumb.jpg.511d27b961c27aa434c18ad39d6427fb.jpg1558783218_vsthepress3.thumb.jpg.695e8d8df04b304657864509eb769ea2.jpg1668353099_vsthepress4.thumb.jpg.7fa90e0c240a26ae97829790d58613ba.jpg1914580642_vsthepress5.thumb.jpg.340de2d5b5ddbdc5479f7e9fc313f192.jpg869783351_vsthepress6.thumb.jpg.04a76f09d27c4325fc8896b643fabaa2.jpg1340217164_vsthepress7.thumb.jpg.98b38d73b6c9e29f25e87868da36ddd2.jpg2092814321_vsthepress8.thumb.jpg.f155b7ac93c8933507045b73c837d9ec.jpg564690374_vsthepress9.thumb.jpg.f73b3cc8dbf77c8731c394e402452633.jpg144127205_vsthepress10.thumb.jpg.338ebfbcffa7842649055c8c6cf3c881.jpg1462663029_vsthepress11.thumb.jpg.27da7dd4541f561c8e643bb5e4a6a60d.jpg

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

 A quick bit about my team build as it drives a lot of my role/tactical choices:

I put a huge emphasis during team building on physicals > mentals > technicals. This is because physicals and mentals influence all player actions, while technicals only effect certain actions. Generally speaking, I prefer a player to attempt to make the right play (mentals) with the ability to do what he needs to do (physicals) and if the action fails because the technicals aren't there, oh well. Because, the reverse -- a player that can make every play but lacks the physicals to do what needs to be done or the mentals to recognize what the right play is -- is very inconsistent. He might have flashes of amazing, but generally will be frustrating as he makes mistakes or just cant get to where he needs to be to influence the play.

As to specific positions, my CDs need to be very capable in the air as a lot of my defensive strategy is about preventing the opposition from getting the ball to the feet of their scorers. Its also very helpful on set pieces (both offensively and defensively) and to win back the ball when the opposing team tries to clear it. I take a similar approach for my DLF playing in the middle as I want him to be able to recover our own cleared balls and get them to a teammate to create an attack. Plus generally I want him to be a matchup nightmare for midfielders so that the opposing DCs are forced to step up and pressure him, thus freeing up the AF(a) or SS(a). For my primary attackers (the AF(a), WM(s), and SS(a)), I look for winger type players. Fast and with the ability to run with the ball. It doesn't make any difference if my player beats his man if he can't take advantage of the space it opens up. 

Spoiler

Roster.thumb.jpg.dafe96a4f4d5daaaa974810082c6bf79.jpg

This is the results of my last full season. I had a really great shot at winning the league but a uncharacteristic bit of bad form to end the season let me down. Still a good showing considering Real Madrid has about 5x my wage budget. Still a solid campaign, most team goals, 5th lowest conceded, absolutely dominate on set pieces, top goalscorer (3rd year running) & top assist man (2nd year). 

Spoiler

20211012135455_1.jpg.917e8a9e5b3cdbce65f7b919bf918f99.jpg

20211012140029_1.thumb.jpg.9194261a8a9d3d16ed84937c2cf71d24.jpg

20211012140719_1.thumb.jpg.520c0540fb8f04f8cd06ce93fdf9dca0.jpg

Here are the team stats for the season. While the AF(a) gets the lions share of of the goals (31), lots of people get involved. 4 guys with 10+ and 8 with 5+. Similar story with assists, where the SS(a) led the charge at 24, but 3 guys got 10+ and 6 got 6+ assists. The key passes really help tell the story on how the creating is happening all over the pitch. Finally, I've been pleasantly surprised with the defensive contributions of my attacking players. None of them are particularly good at defending but most are still managing 2+ tackles and 1.5+ interceptions per game. Most of those are coming in the middle third and it really helps us launch some devastating counter attacks. 

 

Spoiler

20211012140207_1.thumb.jpg.943a1e7523bccfe89c0ca11634d6a481.jpg

 

Edited by VinceLombardi
Link to post
Share on other sites

I recently started this kind of 3-4-3 as well. It was my favourite formation back at the other FM and I wanted to have a quick test to see if it translates; now that the WCB is on the horizon, I need some baseline for comparison ^^

Roles and Team instructions

Spoiler

_formation.png.32c7342d4e4e2f5dcd9a3711af068a48.png

Against better teams the RGA can get swapped for a DLP(s). Counter is optional and depending on the strikers and Trequartista. It adds about 5-8 shots a game but there is some more urgency in attack, lowering the average xG/shot and passing accuracy. For my team it is worth it but if the Ta acks the speed and dribbling to set up the counter or the strikers are not the best scorers, it hurts more than it helps.


Individual instructions:
__Outer CD: Stay Wider. They also both have "Brings Ball out of Defense"
__RGA:  Tackle Harder. PPM to drop deep. If I play against heavy presses, I switch him for a DLPs
__VOLs: Forward, Tackle Harder
__WMs: Forward, Stay Wider, Cross Less Often, Tackle Harder

General idea:
The team is compact in midfield and makes it hard to break down if the wingers and defenders have the speed advantage. The Pressing Forwards harass the backline until they either make a mistake (and with the other striker, a free-flowing playmaker, and the two wingers bombing forwards, there are lots of early passing options) or play a long ball that is easy to pick up for the five at the back and WM. If something goes over? They first have the trap and then the speed and space to intercept the opposition. If they try to play through the defense? It is a solid block in the middle and if they go wide the centre is packed with big strong boys and the WM and outer CD and/or DM also challenge whenever they try to cut inside late.

Both strikers also balance the Trequartista who presses and tackles less urgently but absolutely dominates the spaces given to him by the formation. His biggest strength however? Moving into the channels between fullback and centreback and making way for the wingers to run down the line or cut inside. Or to occupy the DM enough for the Volante to arrive late for a long shot.

Findings about PPM
--I have two PFa currently in my squad:
_____My reserve striker came with the combination of "Likes Ball played into Feet" and "Tries First Time Shots" is an absolute beast from the bench. Low crosses from the WM on his side and through balls from the Ta come directly at his feet and he immediately goes for the shot. Against tired opponents he scores quite well, despite being stock-average otherwise. If I bred some players that have even better movement and first touch? Or are adept at using both feet? A great option to have and as this player uses only few headers and dribbles not that much? Two strong dump stats :)
_____My main striker is a poor man's Haaland. Not quite so fast. Not quite as strong at finishing. But a little bit taller and blessed(?) with the playmaker PPM of trying to pass instead of shooting and dictating tempo. Which makes him quite unique: He gets a lot of headers from the crosses the WM and Ta offer him and he gets enough chances to score. But when a counter is in progress and he comes from the side, he doesn't do the classical move of cutting inside or shooting with his bad foot, he instead makes flat passes to the players rushing forwards.

--For the PFs I see little difference whether or not he has "Plays with back to goal". They both have roughly the same stats. Which is a shame because I wanted him to set the WM and Ta into motion. What made a difference however was to tell him to shoot with power. This really buffs his long shots that get on target and make them a danger, both directly and from rebounds.

--The Ta is a role with so much liberty, that a player with good flair and mentals can probably be left alone. Alas, my two options already come with some "baggage". One has the nice combination of "One-Twos", "Comes Deep" and "Gets into Area". Which makes him highly mobile and lets him dominate the entire midfield area and often arrive at precisely the right moment around the box. But when not countering and instead building up normally, he clashes with the Regista at times and there is a hole in the front that makes attacks either slow or predictable. The other Ta just has "Killer Balls" and "Gets Forward More Often". As Ta he still roams freely in midfield to receive the ball but he then tends to be less show-offy, instead dribbling free and either passing or shooting directly.

--Both outer CD desperately need "Brings Ball out of Defense". Even as CD this makes them exploit the spaces left on the flanks.

Skills needed
--The WM are key. I often use Wingbacks here because they tend to be fast, have good movement in both offense and defense and, this is key, they know how to tackle. They don't necessarily need a speed advantage over the opposition because there is still a big block behind them, but they should never be completely outclassed and should have at least one way to stop them. Be it through tackles or movement is secondary. Unless I have two towers in the centre, crossing is secondary as low cross-passes or cutbacks to the Ta are often the better weapons. Dribbling is nice to have but when they have it, they should be quicker and have great balance/agility -- losses of possession hurt them a lot! If one has the money/reputation or the youth setup to create them from scratch, a strong inside foot helps them a lot but unfortunately that is quite expensive :(
--The Central Defenders however must be quick and mentally fit. The Offside Trap must work and they are tasked to sweep up long balls and to follow whoever gets through.
--I like both my DM to be relatively complete offensively. Movement, long shots, AND Vision/Passing make them hard to counter because they can arrive late, shoot from distance, or play some tricky balls. Corresponding PPM and switching positions can further help them there. Defensively my main focus is strength and tackling as well as healthy Aggressiveness/Bravery.
--I planned with a goalkeeper with a high rushing out attribute to help my high line. But the central block does enough stability against classical long balls through the centre. The main danger are fast wingers who cross into the back of the defense and set pieces. Command of Area together with Bravery/Jumping Reach and Reflexes are now my go-to attributes.


Results and usual matches
I went through the preseason, first round of the cup and two qualifying rounds of the EuroLeague with hardly any shot on target faced. Usually it ended something like 2,45 to 0,13. Weaker teams got obliterated and teams on my level or slightly higher couldn't get through and were defeated on the counter. Repeatedly.

At the Bundesliga though? First match I made the mistake to not factor in that Leverkusen has really, really fast wingers. This resulted in two early mistakes costing me and after ten minutes I was 0-2 down. It resulted in a really fun 4-3 and an amazing effort by the offense but defensively there were holes!

The next games were easy results with lots of goals and even though the defense allowed little throughout most of the match, they made a few big mistakes and after leads of two to three goals were achieved, often the got complacent and in the span of a few minutes the opposition's xG went from a respectable 0,2 to something like 0,9. Or they managed to score a quick one completely out of nowhere. I hope that with better CD and some heavy mentoring there will be more solidity!

Where the formations shines the most though? Weirdly enough whenever one player gets send of and I play with the Regista centrally and the VOLs out. Once the opposition opens up as result, the counters are absolutely deadly!

Speaking of send-offs: Especially the wingers and the Volante need some good takling and anticipation AND need to train the formation before being used in "real" games. Otherwise they are in danger of paying quite a few fines throughout the season. If they have the attributes and the familiarity though? The fouls and intensity are rather "normal" and it is the opponent on thin ice. Fouls on the wingers resulting in red cards could almost be considered part of the tactic :)

___________________

Update: After full familiarity

Assists

Spoiler

_assists.png.a148049462214d01957a0fddd0b228fa.png

I am glad to finally have a formation that goes all-in on passing. The percentage of through-balls is obscene! I also like how the flanks are perfectly symmetrical and at this snapshot it showed. Usually their form switches every so often. Early on in the season I had plenty of angled low passes from the left side to the PFa. After a while the right side made cutbacks to Ta and PFs or the random cross. Or they both play support while the Ta acts on both flanks :)

Shots faced and fired

Spoiler

_xG.png.8d1d026834b547d1c32e1271b799219b.png

After my last formation completely outscored the expected values, now it looks more in line with what we should have. In other words a good formation instead of just good players. Going together with shots faced and fired, this means the average xG/Shot is 0,16 in offense and in defense 0,1

_offense-defense.png.f08d6eeb2404f8302284c6d6f8c226c7.png

The opposition's conversion rate hurts me a bit inside. I really need to go from a classical Sweeper Keeper to a more conservative keeper and to continue to improve my CD.

Put together I am the lone #1 in xG/game and goals scored, the #1 in xG against and #3 in goals conceded.

Formation in attack

Spoiler

_posInAttack.png.2edf5f9e07416f0e085376901e50f4c7.png

A nice 3-2-3-2 in attack. This can be further improved by giving the Wingers offensive-in-possession PPM. Recently I had to use my Treqs there. The going forward PPM on one side and the getting into area on the other were more dangerous but so, so nice to look at!

I like how the PFs is on line with the PFa most of the time. My centrebacks are a bit too close together in my opinion, but that will end in 22 :)

The Wingbacks are a bit misleading, they stay wider most of the time. But in the final third they cut inside rather rapidly after I switched to more even-footed players.

 

Edited by Piperita
Added pictures
Link to post
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, Piperita said:

I recently started this kind of 3-4-3 as well. It was my favourite formation back at the other FM and I wanted to have a quick test to see if it translates; now that the WCB is on the horizon, I need some baseline for comparison ^^

[Pictures to follow once I'm out of the office]

The roles I chose were
__SKd----CDd, CDd, CDd----RGAs, VOLs---WMs, WMS---Ta---PFa, PFs

Individual instructions:
__Outer CD: Stay Wider. They also both have "Brings Ball out of Defense"
__RGA:  Tackle Harder. PPM to drop deep. If I play against heavy presses, I switch him for a DLPs
__VOLs: Forward, Tackle Harder
__WMs: Forward, Stay Wider, Cross Less Often, Tackle Harder

Team Instructions:
--Play out of Defense
--[Counter] --> This adds a good 5 to 8 shots a game but with less accuracy. Perfect for my team but a risk if only few players have the finishing
--Much Higher Defensive Line
--Offside Trap
--Force inside
--More Urgent Pressing

General idea:
The team is compact in midfield and makes it hard to break down if the wingers and defenders have the speed advantage. The Pressing Forwards harass the backline until they either make a mistake (and with the other striker, a free-flowing playmaker, and the two wingers bombing forwards, there are lots of early passing options) or play a long ball that is easy to pick up for the five at the back and WM. If something goes over? They first have the trap and then the speed and space to intercept the opposition. If they try to play through the defense? It is a solid block in the middle and if they go wide the centre is packed with big strong boys and the WM and outer CD and/or DM also challenge whenever they try to cut inside late.

Both strikers also balance the Trequartista who presses and tackles less urgently but absolutely dominates the spaces given to him by the formation. His biggest strength however? Moving into the channels between fullback and centreback and making way for the wingers to run down the line or cut inside. Or to occupy the DM enough for the Volante to arrive late for a long shot.

Findings about PPM
--I have two PFa currently in my squad:
_____My reserve striker came with the combination of "Likes Ball played into Feet" and "Tries First Time Shots" is an absolute beast from the bench. Low crosses from the WM on his side and through balls from the Ta come directly at his feet and he immediately goes for the shot. Against tired opponents he scores quite well, despite being stock-average otherwise. If I bred some players that have even better movement and first touch? Or are adept at using both feet? A great option to have and as this player uses only few headers and dribbles not that much? Two strong dump stats :)
_____My main striker is a poor man's Haaland. Not quite so fast. Not quite as strong at finishing. But a little bit taller and blessed(?) with the playmaker PPM of trying to pass instead of shooting and dictating tempo. Which makes him quite unique: He gets a lot of headers from the crosses the WM and Ta offer him and he gets enough chances to score. But when a counter is in progress and he comes from the side, he doesn't do the classical move of cutting inside or shooting with his bad foot, he instead makes flat passes to the players rushing forwards.

--For the PFs I see little difference whether or not he has "Plays with back to goal". They both have roughly the same stats. Which is a shame because I wanted him to set the WM and Ta into motion. What made a difference however was to tell him to shoot with power. This really buffs his long shots that get on target and make them a danger, both directly and from rebounds.

--The Ta is a role with so much liberty, that a player with good flair and mentals can probably be left alone. Alas, my two options already come with some "baggage". One has the nice combination of "One-Twos", "Comes Deep" and "Gets into Area". Which makes him highly mobile and lets him dominate the entire midfield area and often arrive at precisely the right moment around the box. But when not countering and instead building up normally, he clashes with the Regista at times and there is a hole in the front that makes attacks either slow or predictable. The other Ta just has "Killer Balls" and "Gets Forward More Often". As Ta he still roams freely in midfield to receive the ball but he then tends to be less show-offy, instead dribbling free and either passing or shooting directly.

--Both outer CD desperately need "Brings Ball out of Defense". Even as CD this makes them exploit the spaces left on the flanks.

Skills needed
--The WM are key. I often use Wingbacks here because they tend to be fast, have good movement in both offense and defense and, this is key, they know how to tackle. They don't necessarily need a speed advantage over the opposition because there is still a big block behind them, but they should never be completely outclassed and should have at least one way to stop them. Be it through tackles or movement is secondary. Unless I have two towers in the centre, crossing is secondary as low cross-passes or cutbacks to the Ta are often the better weapons. Dribbling is nice to have but when they have it, they should be quicker and have great balance/agility -- losses of possession hurt them a lot!
--The Central Defenders however must be quick and mentally fit. The Offside Trap must work and they are tasked to sweep up long balls and to follow whoever gets through.
--I like both my DM to be relatively complete offensively. Movement, long shots, AND Vision/Passing make them hard to counter because they can arrive late, shoot from distance, or play some tricky balls. Corresponding PPM and switching positions can further help them there. Defensively my main focus is strength and tackling as well as healthy Aggressiveness/Bravery.

Results and usual matches
I went through the preseason, first round of the cup and two qualifying rounds of the EuroLeague with hardly any shot on target faced. Usually it ended something like 2,45 to 0,13. Weaker teams got obliterated and teams on my level or slightly higher couldn't get through and were defeated on the counter. Repeatedly.

At the Bundesliga though? First match I made the mistake to not factor in that Leverkusen has really, really fast wingers. This resulted in two early mistakes costing me and after ten minutes I was 0-2 down. It resulted in a really fun 4-3 and an amazing effort by the offense but defensively there were holes!

The next games were easy results with lots of goals and even though the defense allowed little throughout most of the match, they made a few big mistakes and after leads of two to three goals were achieved, often the got complacent and in the span of a few minutes the opposition's xG went from a respectable 0,2 to something like 0,9. Or they managed to score a quick one completely out of nowhere. I hope that with better CD and some heavy mentoring there will be more solidity!

Where the formations shines the most though? Weirdly enough whenever one player gets send of and I play with the Regista centrally and the VOLs out. Once the opposition opens up as result, the counters are absolutely deadly!

That is an interesting write-up and can’t wait to see some pictures. I may give this a try and see how it performs!

Link to post
Share on other sites

@LbsalighBMG 3-4-3.fmfcheck it out here - bear in mind that from time to time i used opposition instructions to mark tighter on opponents IF/IWs 

@Piperita loved the write-up and specifically the part about PPMs - I think it's something ever so overlooked by the majority of FM players, mainly how much of a difference it can make in terms of how a player interprets the role according to their PPMs

Link to post
Share on other sites

I added some pictures and pictures to my last post. The last round was even better than the previous ones :)

On 13/10/2021 at 19:25, LPQR said:

I'm thinking of testing my 3-4-3 variation with 2 AMs on a new team, do you guys have any suggestions for which team you want to see the test on?

If you want to play weaker teams, SC Freiburg from the Bundesliga.

--They have good enough pace (but sadly not that great acceleration) for the tactic in key positions.
--Grifo is a fine AM with a partner at his side: He has the long shots AND passing AND set pieces to be a constant danger and his partner can mask his speed deficits.
--Santamaria is a well-rounded DM/MC with offensive movement and with enough defensive partners to cover for him.
--There are three different striker types: One cold converter, one pressing forward who can also be retrained as offensive AM (as partner for Grifo) or Right Winger (where the struggle the most because the researchers hate Sallai :(), and a well-balanced one with room to grow. So options for whatever direction you want to grow.

For midclass teams I could imagine Leverkusen. They have the speed. They have the recklessness. They have the stamina. Might need one more speedy defender or two but otherwise? A bit riskier than usual but in terms of offensive potential probably comparable to the big Bayern with the available players.

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, halfspace3000 said:

chelsea or Atletico Madrid

That would be too easy :D although it could be a lot of fun to watch judging by what i'm seeing in my test

58 minutes ago, Piperita said:

I added some pictures and pictures to my last post. The last round was even better than the previous ones :)

If you want to play weaker teams, SC Freiburg from the Bundesliga.

--They have good enough pace (but sadly not that great acceleration) for the tactic in key positions.
--Grifo is a fine AM with a partner at his side: He has the long shots AND passing AND set pieces to be a constant danger and his partner can mask his speed deficits.
--Santamaria is a well-rounded DM/MC with offensive movement and with enough defensive partners to cover for him.
--There are three different striker types: One cold converter, one pressing forward who can also be retrained as offensive AM (as partner for Grifo) or Right Winger (where the struggle the most because the researchers hate Sallai :(), and a well-balanced one with room to grow. So options for whatever direction you want to grow.

For midclass teams I could imagine Leverkusen. They have the speed. They have the recklessness. They have the stamina. Might need one more speedy defender or two but otherwise? A bit riskier than usual but in terms of offensive potential probably comparable to the big Bayern with the available players.

Interesting suggestion, Grifo looks like a lovely fantasista too. I might give them a go depending on the direction that further tests will take. For now I have opted for Bologna in serie A as I'm a bit fed up with Bundesliga and especially how overpowered Haaland is :lol:

The stats look really really good btw! Mind sharing a screenshot of your set-up? For some reason I find it hard to visualize the dynamics otherwise and I'm curious how you interpreted the formation

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...