[FM20] alternative youth rating (v.1.1), improved game importance (v.1.0)

[Mars_Blackmon]

Maybe edit a team’s club vison to favor certain nationalities

[Daveincid]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Mars_Blackmon:

Maybe edit a team’s club vison to favor certain nationalities

 I didn't know that you can change this to another Nation than the one you play! Testing-Time

[Daveincid]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Mars_Blackmon:

Maybe edit a team’s club vison to favor certain nationalities

Sadly it didn't work as expected. I posted it in the bug forum. Maybe they have an idea how it could work!

[Mars_Blackmon]

7 hours ago, Daveincid said:

Sadly it didn't work as expected. I posted it in the bug forum. Maybe they have an idea how it could work!

I hope i am wrong but I have a feeling that club vision is only for the user and not the AI.

 

if that’s the case, I think you can make the same nationality preferences in the chairman tab.

[Daveincid]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Mars_Blackmon:

I hope i am wrong but I have a feeling that club vision is only for the user and not the AI.

 

if that’s the case, I think you can make the same nationality preferences in the chairman tab.

How do you mean, the same nationality preferences in the chairman tab? my english isn't that good I'm afraid! 

[Mars_Blackmon]

9 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

How do you mean, the same nationality preferences in the chairman tab? my english isn't that good I'm afraid! 

Yes, In thee chairman tab under club, You can set a preferred nationality for the team. I’m not sure how well it works but it’s worth some testing.

[Ikthop]

Hey Dave, do you know if it is possible to change transfer preferences between 2 leagues of the same country? 

The reason I'm asking is because I noticed when a lower league team gets a newgen with high potential ability the best teams in the country end up buying him really fast (like in a few months tops). 

This means it's pretty much impossible to have newgens similar to Jamie Vardy and Charlie Austin. We never have newgens with high PA playing in the lower leagues for a couple seasons before joining a bigger team. 

So if this is possible we could try something like lowering the frequency of transfers between say premier league and national south/north leagues, to test and see if it takes longer for the top teams to buy high PA newgens from the lower leagues teams. 

[Daveincid]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Ikthop:

Hey Dave, do you know if it is possible to change transfer preferences between 2 leagues of the same country? 

The reason I'm asking is because I noticed when a lower league team gets a newgen with high potential ability the best teams in the country end up buying him really fast (like in a few months tops). 

This means it's pretty much impossible to have newgens similar to Jamie Vardy and Charlie Austin. We never have newgens with high PA playing in the lower leagues for a couple seasons before joining a bigger team. 

So if this is possible we could try something like lowering the frequency of transfers between say premier league and national south/north leagues, to test and see if it takes longer for the top teams to buy high PA newgens from the lower leagues teams. 

I completely understand your frustration. but I think this reflects reality quite good. I try to see it from the point as a talented newgen. When I know I'm good, why would I want to stay in the lower leagues any longer? Jamie Vardy did the same. Moved from nowhere to the national league, one season later already in the championship. (As far as I know). So to answer your question, I don't know. Sorry that I couldn't help you!

 

Cheers

 

Daveincid

 

[Daveincid]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Mars_Blackmon:

Yes, In thee chairman tab under club, You can set a preferred nationality for the team. I’m not sure how well it works but it’s worth some testing.

Got it! I'm gonna test it. Thank you!

[Iwabik]

What is the number of high PA newgens compared to standard database?

Edited November 27, 2019 by Iwabik

[Daveincid]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Iwabik:

What is the number of high PA newgens compared to standard database?

this depends on your setup. I used severall testsaves with different databases.

[Mars_Blackmon]

15 hours ago, Daveincid said:

Got it! I'm gonna test it. Thank you!

I think I miss spoke unless I am missing it. But it seems that you can only give the chairman a attribute to prefer players from the same nation as he is from.

 

I hope the Club Vison thing was a bug and works for AI ran teams.

 

out of curiosity, did you mess with the importance of it? I notice that you can set preferred nations and how* important it is to meet the requirement. Maybe it wasn’t set and the AI didn’t go after those nations because it was not required?

[Iwabik]

Just now, Daveincid said:

this depends on your setup. I used severall testsaves with different databases.

Oh yes, I just wonder if it is indeed lower and how big is the difference.

[Daveincid]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Iwabik:

Oh yes, I just wonder if it is indeed lower and how big is the difference.

I won't tell all details of the youth rating I set for every nation, this would be less fun:) It is really hard to give a correct answer to your question, because it's based on so many factors.

 

Cheers

 

Daveincid

[Daveincid]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb Mars_Blackmon:

I think I miss spoke unless I am missing it. But it seems that you can only give the chairman a attribute to prefer players from the same nation as he is from.

 

I hope the Club Vison thing was a bug and works for AI ran teams.

 

out of curiosity, did you mess with the importance of it? I notice that you can set preferred nations and high important it is to meet the requirement.

I still need some time for testing. I will update you as soon as possible!

 

Cheers

 

Daveincid

[WynnZeroOne]

1 hour ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

But it seems that you can only give the chairman a attribute to prefer players from the same nation as he is from.

You can, but chairman don't always match the nationality of the club.

A Scottish club with a Brazilian chairman makes life difficult as a manager because you can't scout that far afield and they don't wan't to play in a low rep league, for example.

[Daveincid]

vor 19 Minuten schrieb WynnZeroOne:

You can, but chairman don't always match the nationality of the club.

A Scottish club with a Brazilian chairman makes life difficult as a manager because you can't scout that far afield and they don't wan't to play in a low rep league, for example.

This is really difficult....If I change the chairmans preferences to a specific nation, its shown in the club panel. So far so good. But it seems this counts only for the team you manage by your own, not the AI Teams. I did the same with the Director of Football (responsible for transfers) , changed preferences for a specific Nation. No success so far. Any other Ideas?

[WynnZeroOne]

3 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

This is really difficult....If I change the chairmans preferences to a specific nation, its shown in the club panel. So far so good. But it seems this counts only for the team you manage by your own, not the AI Teams. I did the same with the Director of Football (responsible for transfers) , changed preferences for a specific Nation. No success so far. Any other Ideas?

I'm unsure.

In FM19, I changed all the major leagues rules to either 10HG & 6HGC players in squad, or 14 players in squad who were HG in Club or Nation, and did this as a means of combating FM's stupid ability to build squads with players who don't meet HG criteria. Didn't work, clubs like Man City just bought a fourth world class RB who was never picked in a squad because he was deemed foreign.

I think league rules are the most effective place to increase home-grown player transfers, but even extreme measures like same nationality rule seem to see teams buying foreigners they can't use still.

Edited November 27, 2019 by WynnZeroOne

[Daveincid]

vor 20 Minuten schrieb WynnZeroOne:

I'm unsure.

In FM19, I changed all the major leagues rules to either 10HG & 6HGC players in squad, or 14 players in squad who were HG in Club or Nation, and did this as a means of combating FM's stupid ability to build squads with players who don't meet HG criteria. Didn't work, clubs like Man City just bought a fourth world class RB who was never picked in a squad because he was deemed foreign.

I think league rules are the most effective place to increase home-grown player transfers, but even extreme measures like same nationality rule seem to see teams buying foreigners they can't use still.

I am not a fan of changing real rules to be honest. But I did the same as you in the past. It works similar to my Transfer Preferences file. It increases the amount from the clubs nationality and reflects more or less the same amount of homegrown players in the future. My Point is more from which Nations the foreign Players come from. Like I wrote earlier, you can edit preferences for a whole nation, but is there a way to do it for a single team?

[WynnZeroOne]

I can only see this as a club level change

I'll run a test in EPL

Edited November 27, 2019 by WynnZeroOne

[Daveincid]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb WynnZeroOne:

I can only see this as a club level change 

Yes and there I wanted to put another Nation than the one the team plays in, and this didn't work

[Daveincid]

I edited for example that FC Basel's club vision is to buy a lot of egyptian players. This works as long as you manage the club by yourself. That's already pretty cool! But I try to bring more realism to the whole world and not only to the club I manage.

[WynnZeroOne]

I recall around the time of Icelands exploits in the Euro's that I gave some German and English teams an Icelandic affiliate. This gave them some Iceland regens at the time, some decent, but either it, or I, didn't do it properly in Fm19

[Mars_Blackmon]

6 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

I edited for example that FC Basel's club vision is to buy a lot of egyptian players. This works as long as you manage the club by yourself. That's already pretty cool! But I try to bring more realism to the whole world and not only to the club I manage.

That’s a bummer

[Daveincid]

Gerade eben schrieb WynnZeroOne:

I recall around the time of Icelands exploits in the Euro's that I gave some German and English teams an Icelandic affiliate. This gave them some Iceland regens at the time, some decent, but either it, or I, didn't do it properly in Fm19

I know, did the same. But it also do not reflect reality. And there are mostly newgens, not older players. In my save for example there are almost no transfer between the red bull-teams, and they are are affilliated to eachother.

[Daveincid]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Mars_Blackmon:

That’s a bummer

For your own save yes Big respect to SI for this addition!

[WynnZeroOne]

1 minute ago, Daveincid said:

I know, did the same. But it also do not reflect reality. And there are mostly newgens, not older players. In my save for example there are almost no transfer between the red bull-teams, and they are are affilliated to eachother.

The same for Man City and it's affiliates.

[Mars_Blackmon]

9 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

For your own save yes Big respect to SI for this addition!

It’s a bummer for only working for the User and not Both the User and AI. I love the feature.

[Daveincid]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Mars_Blackmon:

It’s a bummer for only working for the User and not Both the User and AI. I love the feature.

yep

[Daveincid]

vor 14 Minuten schrieb WynnZeroOne:

The same for Man City and it's affiliates.

have you tested it?

[WynnZeroOne]

29 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

have you tested it?

Yes, last year I tinkered with affiliates to see if players would move on loan or to parent clubs. Broken element of game. Probably because it doesn't happen.

I gave Edinburgh City some affiliates with same board, lends players etc etc, but rarely saw anything move between  clubs.

Where-ever I manage I like to have small groups of 3-4 players on loan at my feeder clubs looking to aid them whilst increasing their own standing and using them to develop U21's who are not part of my first team.

[Daveincid]

Gerade eben schrieb WynnZeroOne:

Yes, last year I tinkered with affiliates to see if players would move on loan or to parent clubs. Broken element of game. Probably because it doesn't happen.

I gave Edinburgh City some affiliates with same board, lends players etc etc, but rarely saw anything move between  clubs.

Where-ever I manage I like to have small groups of 3-4 players on loan at my feeder clubs looking to aid them whilst increasing their own standing and using them to develop U21's who are not part of my first team.

Is this already in the bug forum? Seems to be worth posting

[WynnZeroOne]

4 hours ago, Daveincid said:

Is this already in the bug forum? Seems to be worth posting

Not sure situations created by the editor are deemed bug-worthy.

In theorem Man City's affiliates are presented as development, feeder, youth strategy, but in reality they are simply a means to launder money in and out of the parent companies for tax avoidance purposes, so we don't see much inter-club activity in real life.

[Mars_Blackmon]

25 minutes ago, WynnZeroOne said:

Not sure situations created by the editor are deemed bug-worthy.

In theorem Man City's affiliates are presented as development, feeder, youth strategy, but in reality they are simply a means to launder money in and out of the parent companies for tax avoidance purposes, so we don't see much inter-club activity in real life.

pre game/in game editor have bug forum. If options aren't working as intended it should definitely be raised.

[Daveincid]

Any feedback from you guys who play with the files in a save? Some weird transfers or other stuff that seems worth taking a look?

 

Cheers

 

Daveincid

[Mars_Blackmon]

10 hours ago, Daveincid said:

Any feedback from you guys who play with the files in a save? Some weird transfers or other stuff that seems worth taking a look?

 

Cheers

 

Daveincid

Transfer Preferences looks good so far. I haven’t did any thorough testing but I mainly play MLS and it’s been a problem with teams not buying enough players for a long time. I recently added a continent preference for South America and set the activity to high. Recent years, MLS teams have been buying young players from this area. These transfers have been more active than in the past years as MLS is quickly becoming a selling league. I know you have set countries in South America to high profile players only for countries in South America but It might be a good idea to set some of those countries to “most player” atleast for the age of 14-22?

[Daveincid]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb Mars_Blackmon:

Transfer Preferences looks good so far. I haven’t did any thorough testing but I mainly play MLS and it’s been a problem with teams not buying enough players for a long time. I recently added a continent preference for South America and set the activity to high. Recent years, MLS teams have been buying young players from this area. These transfers have been more active than in the past years as MLS is quickly becoming a selling league. I know you have set countries in South America to high profile players only for countries in South America but It might be a good idea to set some of those countries to “most player” atleast for the age of 14-22?

Thank you for this! I just done some research and its plausible. As you know the MLS pretty good, which nations would you change to most player? I take this on the list for the next changes.

Edited November 29, 2019 by Daveincid

[Mars_Blackmon]

5 hours ago, Daveincid said:

Thank you for this! I just done some research and its plausible. As you know the MLS pretty good, which nations would you change to most player? I take this on the list for the next changes.

I want to test further, high profile only may do the job correctly for the South American countries you have set already as MLS club place a high value on international slots and probably shouldn't be wasting a slot on a low rep international player. The thing is, MLS are buying more young players from these countries and signing them to Young Designated player Contracts (Players under 23) rather than older players.

It's similar to England but in reverse lol. MLS sign high profile older players from the EPL to Designated Player Contracts  with the occasional signing of a younger english player from leagues lower than EPL.

With South America (Argentina, Venezuela, etc ) MLS are signing high profile players that are under 23 from these South American leagues with the occasional signing of a older player . However, I don't really recall any young Brazilians being signed but I also haven't done extensive research

One thing I would look into, is to make South America a transfer preference as a whole. In the continent section, I mirrored what is has set for North America which was 18 (I may increase both to 20 since MLS have trouble buying players in the game) that way we will get players from the likes of Uraguay, Paraguay, etc. 

 

Few Sources

https://www.americansocceranalysis.com/home/2019/1/24/uncovering-the-best-foreign-transfers-to-mls

http://www.startribune.com/retirement-league-no-more-mls-spending-entices-better-soccer-talent-to-united-states/516989571/?refresh=true

 

This link shows the percentage of foreign players in the MLS for the 2019 season. This includes all foreign players including players who came over to America as a youth player.

Ignoring Canada, the top countries are Argentina & Brazil

https://www.transfermarkt.com.fj/major-league-soccer/gastarbeiter/wettbewerb/MLS1/saison_id/2018  

[Daveincid]

Simulation until 2032, all leagues playable, max details for international competitions (Ideas to explain the next electricity-bill to my girlfriend are highly apreciated) 

 I ran a test to see the world-development in total.

My conclusion so far:

Positive:

• Different Clubs winning international competition. (except north america. CF Monterrey sems to have a golden generation)
• There are 159 newgens with a PA over 170, maybe 60% of them reach their limit. This keeps it interesting for teams fighting for the best players.
• Diversity of philosophies. There are a lot of Teams, which have a high amount of homegrown players for a couple of seasons. this can change over time. (maybe through a new owner or so) 
• As far as I can see there is a high variety of good players from different Nations, but it doesn't feel overpowered or unrealistic to me so far
• The game is stable (good job SI!)

Negative:

• 2nd nationality isn't that much as it should be in most countrys
• 1 Nation which I edited underperfoms in producing talent and progress in total. I will try to find out how to fix this
• High amount of money spend from smaller Nations. Maybe this is already normal or will be soon I don't know. It just feels a bit strange when a romanian team spends 10mio for a player
• UEFA 5-Years ranking: still impossible for all Nations under the top5 to get closer to them (maybe this is more a wish than a realistic scenario)

Some screenshots down below. If you wanna see a specific screenshot from a league, club or so let me know!

Cheers

Daveincid

 

Edited November 30, 2019 by Daveincid

[KUBI]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Daveincid:

Negative:

• 2nd nationality isn't that much as it should be in most countrys

This is a general bug and they are looking into it.

[Daveincid]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb KUBI:

This is a general bug and they are looking into it.

I know. But it doesn't seem to count for every Nation. Down below Cyprus

 

Cheers 

 

Daveincid

[KUBI]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Daveincid:

I know. But it doesn't seem to count for every Nation. Down below Cyprus

Still a bug as there are a lot of weird second nationalites.

[Daveincid]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb KUBI:

Still a bug as there are a lot of weird second nationalites.

definetly!

[Spurs08]

21 hours ago, Daveincid said:

• UEFA 5-Years ranking: still impossible for all Nations under the top5 to get closer to them (maybe this is more a wish than a realistic scenario)

This one is, I expect, nothing to do with your edit but instead the new European format from 2021 onwards. Nation 5 nearly always gets 3 teams directly into the UCL GS, another two straight into the UEL GS, and a sixth as heavy favourites in the UECL Playoff. Nation 6 only gets 2 in the UCL GS and one in the playoff, they only get one UEL spot, and then their last two teams have to play two or even three qualifiers just to reach the UECL GS. Nations 7 to 9 even worse losing their third UCL spot entirely, making it very hard for league from their to ovtake 5th directly. Combine this with the fact that the top 5 are all extremely wealthly nations, very interested in football, with big reputations and histories, and it'll be a major upset for the Top 5 to ever change.

[booble]

thanks for the transfer preferences file. had a quick look and it seems very accurate compared to default. tempted to start a new save now lol

[Daveincid]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Spurs08:

This one is, I expect, nothing to do with your edit but instead the new European format from 2021 onwards. Nation 5 nearly always gets 3 teams directly into the UCL GS, another two straight into the UEL GS, and a sixth as heavy favourites in the UECL Playoff. Nation 6 only gets 2 in the UCL GS and one in the playoff, they only get one UEL spot, and then their last two teams have to play two or even three qualifiers just to reach the UECL GS. Nations 7 to 9 even worse losing their third UCL spot entirely, making it very hard for league from their to ovtake 5th directly. Combine this with the fact that the top 5 are all extremely wealthly nations, very interested in football, with big reputations and histories, and it'll be a major upset for the Top 5 to ever change.

yeah I know, it was more of a complain for the current system. I would love to see how football in Europe would develop with a more fair distribution of the places. 

[Daveincid]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb booble:

thanks for the transfer preferences file. had a quick look and it seems very accurate compared to default. tempted to start a new save now lol

nice to hear! This is what it's made for.

 If you find something strange in the future, let me know!

[Bigpole]

I've noticed that Youth Recruitment increases more double nationality newgens in this edition of FM, I know that this value we researchers set in reference to country scale (biggest clubs have 17-20, smaller clubs 4-8 etc) but now I see more different nationalities in Poland than in previous fm's. I know that in countries with double nationality there's bug with lack of double nationalities so I hope for future improvement on this part. 

[CrowBar]

This is excellent work and I really needed this in my save(s). I had several pet peeves during FM that have been there since I started playing FM (since '07).  The unrealistic development and scale of talent around the world + unrealistic handling of transfers in general. Your work have improved it so much that I wonder why SI doesn't use these values themselves. It always bothered me that eventually there would be too many regen talents on the level of C. Ronaldo and Messi around the ingame world, while in reality we haven't seen the likes of that frequently. It's doubtful we'll even see two similar skilled players like that battling it out for 10+ years like that in the near future.

Edited December 2, 2019 by CrowBar

[Daveincid]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb CrowBar:

This is excellent work and I really needed this in my save(s). I had several pet peeves during FM that have been there since I started playing FM (since '07).  The unrealistic development and scale of talent around the world + unrealistic handling of transfers in general. Your work have improved it so much that I wonder why SI doesn't use these values themselves. It always bothered me that eventually there would be too many regen talents on the level of C. Ronaldo and Messi around the ingame world, while in reality we haven't seen the likes of that frequently. It's doubtful we'll even see two similar skilled players like that battling it out for 10+ years like that in the near future.

Thank you very much! I am happy that so many people like the files. I hope to improve the files further as soon as possible!

Cheers

Daveincid