Syrup & Honey - A tactical discussion

[lam]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> It is my understanding that when playing around the mixed range, you are relying on the players decision making abilities to pick out a pass. This assumption would lead to possibly giving specific instructions to your players and give them a very low 'creative freedom'.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What i meant to say here was in relation to players with low decision making capabilities. if they are low, then give specific instructions to your players and then give them low CF.

The key to which player needs which passing is in the base setup and the position they play on the field. Look at that first to work out what that player is going to do. Dont mess with it until you understand it, else you will not know why it still isnt working when you change it.

Lee

[Dirty_ACE]

What i meant to say here was in relation to players with low decision making capabilities. if they are low, then give specific instructions to your players and then give them low CF.

The key to which player needs which passing is in the base setup and the position they play on the field. Look at that first to work out what that player is going to do. Dont mess with it until you understand it, else you will not know why it still isnt working when you change it.

Lee

When you say "base setup" are you referring to the default settings for each position that come with the game?

Btw, one more thing I think you should consider when deciding on mentality for your players are the pre match odds. I've also played a couple away games where I was a heavy favorite, so I went with higher mentality (1 or 2 notches higher) all through the team and won both of those games as well.

[Kennethvds]

Hi Cleon,

I read your post and tried this shape with AA Gent and changed it to fith my team (Belgium).

Till now I have great results, 1st after 7 matches with only 1 draw and a scoring of 15-2.

The thing I am worried about is that I have always little posession. Do you have this also? Even against weaker teams. I do win the games and have more chanses than the opposistion. Do you know what can be the problem?

[Dirty_ACE]

Cleon,

Do you still use the scout reports on your next opponent? For example things like their passing style and width of pitch. I remember from your Sheffield Project thread for FM07 you did do this. Do you still play this way?

[eltjon]

LAM What are the parameters to be given at the Team instruction....I only those lacking.

thank you lam...

[Ezzz]

Thank you lam.

Too bad that one cannot force the goalkeeper to make "safe" passes. Actually he is the main waster of passes.

Put lets say that you have a "perfect" game. You dominate possession, create chances, stop the opponent, opponents are not closing you down much,...

But still a player (lets say DC) is still wasting possession/passes. If he is a bad player(passing/decision making), but the formation gives him enough free teammates to pass to, and he isn't under pressure from the opposition.

Would you but him on short passing, forcing him to make the simple pass, even though he is a bad player(League 2/Conference player)? Or would you give him direct passing to just pass it directly to a teammate and thus not looking for a simple pass(which may result him running with the ball, not finding a simple passing option)?

[lam]

Eltjon,

I thought the team instructions had been posted somewhere....

Most of the team instructions will be redundant with this setup because PI's override the team setup. This means that you can ignore:

Passing

Creative Freedom

Mentality

Closing down

Tackling

However, you will need to adjust the following:

Tempo

Width

Time Wasting

Defencive Line

All of these i have set to highest normal, apart from Width which is lowest Normal. Cleon indicated that he played narrow. now, wether this means it reads narrow on the screen or he was merely indicating which area he operated in, i do not know. and judging by some of his repsponses here, he is not likely to say, as he wants us to find out what works for us.

The point is that, although there is a base setup, you will have to change something every game. Some games, you will have to play faster as you get getting closed down quickly, some games your high D-line just isnt working......

Ezzz.

you could change your keeper to distribute to one of your DC's. I have no idea what impact this would have on the game, but again, if you are continually losing possession through bad distribution from your keeper, then a short pass couldnt result in anything worse. give it a go and report back, let us know what happens.

In relation to the DC..... if i am winnging the game hands down, then to be honest i would leave him where he was. In one of his posts, cleon noted that providing he was winning, he would leave a oppo player to his own game, even if they were having a blinder. For me, the same applies here.

I think sometimes, people over complicate their own tactics, many times i have read that 'when i take the lead i shut up shop'. I am sure that this works for some people, but personaly, if i am kicking ass, i never change anything. why should i? i have a winning tactic that is working. let the oppo change around me. If, however, they change and it starts causing me problems, then of course i will look at it.

Anyway, back to your DC. If you are that unhappy with him, then just ease back his passing two notches at a time, re-check every 10 game mins to see if his % has increased. Needless to say, you will need to take notes prior to every change.

You could then take this to the next level and take notes on every game he plays. I'll point out at this stage, that i am useless at this as i am still learning about 'what to look for'. I have no idea at this point, how the oppositions game will effect my teams passing.

If you are so worried about his passing that you think he will give it away in your area, then leave him on high mixed and let him hoof it upfield.

Needless to say, the best way to find out is to change it and see what happens.

I beleive that this tactic is strong enough, when in its default position, it can get you out of a mess.

When i want to test something, I'll either change it at the begining of the game (which then gives me time to get back in if i go down) or after i am two goals to the good. The problem with the later is that you have normaly run their morale into the ground at this stage and many things will work well.

Lee

[Cleon]

I will answer everyones questions, just dont have the time at the moment.

[lam]

Cleon,

I wasnt implying that you can not be bothered. I was merely pointing out that most of your replies on this thread have encouraged us to find out for ourselves rather than giving simple answers know that we would not learn from it.

No offence meant!

[Cleon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lam:

Cleon,

I wasnt implying that you can not be bothered. I was merely pointing out that most of your replies on this thread have encouraged us to find out for ourselves rather than giving simple answers know that we would not learn from it.

No offence meant! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Stop taking things personal and thinking there directed at you. I was just stating in general, so people didnt think id abondened the thread

[Ezzz]

lam, thank you for your replies.

The passing question was not about specific positions but overall. Just took the DC as an example.

And I don't mean changing passing during the game. It just when every game the player gets the same bad stats, what changes would one make, after the game.

Just changed the goalkeepers settings to: passing: short, distribution: quick throw, and gave more creative freedom, it seemed to help, need to test in more games.

And one more thing for clarification I am not using Cleons tactic. But feel that the question still relates somewhat.

[drambuie2]

Have been trying this as Everton and so far so good - extremely good defensively and often win 1-0 or similar. Doesn't help in that it appears all of Everton's forwards (as appears to be true irl) are terribly inconsistent!

Found for example that Everton work better with a middle-high tempo and pushing up more often than not, even using offside. Otherwise some games seem to be fairly tense and close - perhps more of a reflection of the overall quality of Everton versus the other premiership teams. Seems a tactic where the defensive line/tempo need more monitoring than i've noticed before with other setups - small tweaks seem to make big differences as has been mentioned here.

Also established a tactic where I have no running with ball and a higher tempo for the tougher, more physical sides and a more 'normal' one similar to Cleon's one for other games.

Good stuff!

[lam]

Ok, if you are not using this tactic, then yes, i would change the passing. What you need to change it to depends on what your formation is doing and what you currently have it at.

If the player has good decisions and you do not want to play a very specific game, then put it on mixed and let him choose.

if however, you have a speific game plan in mind and he has poor decisions then set it specific and give him to CF.

This may be a short passing game for your MCA or a low mix for your MCD.....

[FuSS]

I play a very similar formation using my own tactic (although mine makes far less use of individual intructions and far more use of team instructions)......but I altered one of my wingers to not cross and to encourage cutting inside as Cleon has done and it works wonders!

I've also tried having the 2 wingers (if they cna play ither flank) swap positions, and I find the oen that cuts inside tends to get marked more heavily (as though he were striker).

[lam]

Cleon,

Out of interest, how narrow do you play?

I know you are busy, but can you post your stats again at some point?

thanks

Lee

[lam]

How narrow do you all play?

[Cleon]

Here are the stats again, as the link on the first page seems to work 1 minute and not the next Link

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> i do have a question. is it best to set your ground to narrow since you play narrow or set it to wide then play narrow to leave space around you? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I actually leave mine normal, incase I want to change my width at anytime during a game. For more about pitch sizes etc use the FAQ's uptop, it explains pretty much everything.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">My question is how do you set the individual passing? Do you use their passing ability?(Decision making,...) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes and no. I look at a players stats and determine what sort of style he could do, but then I look at the shape of the formation when I'm in possession and see if he has people close to him to pass to etc. I then set his passing according to what I see on the pitch. Its no good me giving someone short passing as he may have noone to pass to and could be tackled and lose the ball in a vital place.

So basically, passing is set on visuals from ingame rather than anything else.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Do you look at the passing stats after the game to determine if the settings are correct? Lets say a player(a MC) is getting passing stats of 15 completed/35 made passes.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I tend to keep players in the middle on normal passing, that way they can use their own judgements as to what sort of pass to play.

Remember also, if you have players on 'try through balls' then he needs to be on normal passing, if not he can't do a through ball to a player in a dangerous position.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Well, I imagine you can definitely play more aggressively at home, especially if you're a top team or near top. I just did that against Middlesbrough. I increased the mentality for all my players (except the GK) by 2 notches and ran out 6-0 winners. However, I think that if you do play more attacking you are more likely to give the ball away since you're pushing it up the field more. So if you have the players that can distribute and hold the bold without loosing it then being more aggressive should work for you. This is just my thinking of it though. Maybe Cleon can confirm this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

When going attacking, its essential you alter the d-line and make it push up really high, if not it wont work, or be effective.

I wouldnt tend to go to attacking away from home though unless I was the best team in the league by far. Id just play normal for 20 mins and see how it goes and alter based on what you see.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Hi Cleon,

I read your post and tried this shape with AA Gent and changed it to fith my team (Belgium).

Till now I have great results, 1st after 7 matches with only 1 draw and a scoring of 15-2.

The thing I am worried about is that I have always little posession. Do you have this also? Even against weaker teams. I do win the games and have more chanses than the opposistion. Do you know what can be the problem? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dont worry about the possession stat, its actually bugged.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Cleon,

Do you still use the scout reports on your next opponent? For example things like their passing style and width of pitch. I remember from your Sheffield Project thread for FM07 you did do this. Do you still play this way? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not on this version no. I just play based on what I see. I know I keep saying that lol, but its true. Its the only way to see and determine how you can play.

[vasilli07]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

Dont worry about the possession stat, its actually bugged.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ermm...then have you reported it?

[Cleon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by vasilli07:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

Dont worry about the possession stat, its actually bugged.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ermm...then have you reported it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They already know...plus what do you think?

[lam]

I know that i am still in the same season and despite a dip:

I am still doing really well:

Anyone having as much success as this (probably just kinx myself)?

Still interested in hearing how narrow you all play. I am finding that i am slowly narrowing the formation from normal to middle of narrow now.

Lee

[Cleon]

I never count cup games, when having a great season I can sometimes flop in cups myself. Its because its more about knockouts than points. And is a reflection of RL imo.

You've won the league easily so it seems, nice

[lam]

thanks to you !! great tactic.

I just need to ensure i do not get flashy.

When taking an early lead i have been experimenting with the attacking mentality and DLine (I didnt know until your last post that when you go attacking you needed to move the DL up), but its not alway been as successfull as i though. so perhaps, ill win the league first and then play around a little.

Lee

[Wes_Coulam]

Its on tonight, Not sure how many of you care but ive got 3 hours off work tonight and its time to start the FM and get mixed up with some Syrup & Honey im excited.

[lam]

Wes,

Have a quick read through the whole post so that you get it running well and dont waste half the night !!!

i have won the league with 4 games to go, i am in the FA final and am currently in the champions semi (though just lost first leg 1-0 away to Man U to an offside goal, which the FA were silent over.... nightmare).

Lee

[Dirty_ACE]

lam, congratulations on the season, nicely done

I'm also noticing bit by bit that I need play narrower and narrower

[Dirty_ACE]

Does anyone know how to stop players from receiving the ball and then just standing there in place? I've noticed my fullbacks started doing this and instead of running with the ball like I told them too they just stand in place like they're thinking while a player from the other team tackles them of takes the ball away. Is it something that has do to with creative freedom?

[vasilli07]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dirty_ACE:

Does anyone know how to stop players from receiving the ball and then just standing there in place? I've noticed my fullbacks started doing this and instead of running with the ball like I told them too they just stand in place like they're thinking while a player from the other team tackles them of takes the ball away. Is it something that has do to with creative freedom? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I saw tat too happening with my alan hutton. He got 'run with ball' as his ppm but he is still standing there. Guess what, mutu(arsenal) tackles him and then score a last min winner...

[lam]

Wether they stand around or not will be affected by the options that they have. In Vasilli's example, you could suggest that if he is facing mutu and doesnt think he can RWB past him, he will look for a passing option. If there are no passing option available, they may hand around for a bit. IMO a low creative freedom should 'force' him to run, but if its not low and he has high decisions he may well decide not to run.

In relation to the passing on the WB's, you should have noticed that they were different from left to right. I beleive in Cleons original post the left WB had a short passing option as the Winger had a lower attacking mentality, therfore should never have been to far from the WB. However, on the right side, the winger had a higher attacking mentality, therefore was normaly on his way into the box or certainly heading in that direction when your WBR picked up the ball, therefore the WBR had a mixed (but higher) passing.

The next time your WB gets the ball either pause the game and look around and see what is going on or put the game on speed slow (one below middle). Not a dig here, but Cleon has pointed out many times, that the key to this tactic is 'watching' the game. If you do not do this, you may be lucky enough to stumble onto the answer, but you will not 'understand' why its worked.

On another note, in relation to Vasilli's post. Judging on how this formation plays, normaly when my WB picks up the ball, other than from his own tackle, he is normally near the half way line. Therefore if you are losing the ball and people are scoring from it, i would suggest that youd DLine may be to deep. My default position is the highest normal, which i think is 14/15. With this, if my WB gets tackled, its so far up, my 4 man defence (DCx3 and WBL) just shift to the right and pick up the space.

Give it a try and see what happpens ....... emphasis on the 'see what happens'. You really do need to watch this game !!!

Lee

[lam]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Cleons original post the left WB had a short passing option </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

meant to say, shortER passing option. It was still mixed.

[lam]

Ok,

I still have the FA cup final and the champion league final to play, but i wanted to post my League standing and stats for you to look at.

As you can see, i won by 18 clear points. This was helped by pretty bad season from the big 4. But nonetheless, a pretty hot result.

My goal difference alone was higher than that of goals scored by nearly all the teams in 6th position and below.

Below are the stats of my team.

Ill post an explanation about them in another post as i need to see the picture.

[lam]

Hi,

Before i start, i cut and paste the position into the stat screen, just incase you start wondering why you dont get that from FM. Also - these are my league stats, there are no cups in here.

One of the obvious things that stand out here is the number of goals scored by my DC. Yes...... i use the corner routine. I have nothing more to say on that topic

What you see above is pretty much my first choice team, with perhaps two adjustments.

Team Comments

Strikers:

I had major problems this season finding a striker to fit this formation. Cacia is a clinical striker, however his pace and OTB are not to good, therefore he didnt play much, its worth noting however that he scored 39 goals for me last season. Note - you need the right striker for this formation.

I ended up recalling Saivet from his loan at Bolton. He has pace (18) and decend OTB (15), but is lacking in finishing (14). He has room to grow and i beleive that unless i sign someone, he will be no.1 next season. You will note that he played 11 and scored 9. Imagine what he will be capable when he gets better.

The only other striker i had of note was Cacia. Although others have this position listed, i did not play anyone else here.

Wing

Downing - many of his assists came from the headers, but not all. Therefore it shows that he is fitting in with the tactics well here. Its worth noting that this is the only formation that has got good games out of him.

Farfan - I love this guy. Some of his goals are from Free kicks, however, again, it shows that he fits in the formation.

Midfield

I have lots of player here that i rotate around and will look to lower this next season by one to get a more consistent performance from them. One good thing i did note is that the MCR (attacking one) suits either a passing/setup man or a runner. This is a position that i want to work more on next season. The stats that these guys pick up in relation to key passes is great each game (between 5-10), however they dont seem to result in goals.

Wingbacks

Well, what can i say about this. It fits the bill perfectly. Rafina throwing in the crosses and Kolarov helping at the back. One thing of note. Kolorov gets a yellow card in about two thirds of his games. I get mixed performances from these guys, its rarely consistent.

DC

Did you see the goals conceded? Admititadly, i have some very good defenders, Sakho being the best in the world IMO. Many of the goals i conceded were down to not understanding the tact as well as i would have liked. I started wrong, conceded a goal and then made the wrong adjustment and conceded another then made the right adjustment and scored 3 to win the game. This was against weaker teams, not the big boys.

Well guys, i hope that helps a little. I will post back after my cup games to let you know how i did.

and.... credit where credit is due...... great tactic Cleon !!!!

Lee

[lam]

Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I won the FA cup 1-0 against Middlesborough

and i have just won the Champions cup in a thrilling 5-3 over Fiorentina.

Incredible season !

Lee

[nick1408]

I have started a new game with Middlesbrough. Started ok with a 2-0 win over birmingham but it was downhill from there! After 18 games I was 6 wins and 12 losses. got the arse after the 18th game. Most of my wins have come after minor defensive tweaks but nothing seems to work for more than 2 games. I have tried various things such as raising CD on outside def's, raising middle def's CD, switching attacking sides from right to left (Young is crap at attacking), nothing I can get to work consistantly.

I was in trouble early on as I lost all my GK's except for 1 and the only replacement I could get was Peter Zois! I have also signed Matthew Spiranovic on a loan to cover for defence as Rob Huth and Emmanuel Pogatetz start injured. My first team now reads as follows (Backups in brackets):

Schwarzer

Huth, Wheater, Pogatetz (Spiranovic)

Young, Taylor (Arca)

Cattermole, Rochemback (Boateng, O'Neil)

Tuncay, Downing (Johnson)

Alves (Aliadiere)

I have some major holes most notably in the WBR and ST roles. I would also like to replace Tuncay as I don't feel he does this tactic justice. Sooner or later I will need to replace Schwarzer but that will come in later seasons hopefully!

I think once I fix up the holes in my team my results will get better. I have identified 2 players to fill in at WBR and ST so all I need to do is keep my job past december this time....

[lam]

Nick,

Ensure that you are playing narrow or at least the lowest normal width.

Try to keep things the same as the default until you get to grips with it.

If your WB is weak and you have the players then consider switching this formation from left to right. or at least make the WBR a little more defencive.

Remember this tactic gets the best out of your players, try not to force them to play the formation, rather change the PI's to suit the players. As long as its still balanced it should still work.

Example: i have to WBR's one is awesome, but he can not play every game. the other is really good, but he is defencive and not attacking, therefore when he plays, his settings end up being very similar to those of the WBL. Yet i still win.

IMO the D-line is very important, if this is wrong, you will concede goals.

I start mine at the highest normal position and if the oppo has pace and OTB high then i pull it back a few ticks, if they are very high then i come back to the middle (11).

its rare that i have to do this at home.

Lee

[nick1408]

i did play on the left for a few games but Downing doesn't have the shooting that Tuncay does. I do like your idea of scaling back the WB though, I actually hadn't thought of that. It's so basic too!

I am playing narrow and I think the best way to get the most out of this tactic is to set your ground to the largest at the start of the season. I left mine as standard and when I played this game but I feel i play much better on larger grounds.

I still believe that when I fix the holes in the side I will be a bit more balanced too.

Thanks for the help too. Soccer is not my first footballing language (Aussie rules is!) so help is always much appreciated.

I will report back later

[lam]

Nick,

The key to the tactic is to get the best from all your players. If they can run with the ball, then let them run with the ball. If they are great crossers, let them cross. If they can not tackle for toffee, dont put them on hard tackling. etc etc

There are some things that you might not want to do, ie forward runs and run with ball on a DC. However, having said that i bought Bodmer, who can play in multiple positions and i had him on mixed RWB, Mixed FWR and an 11 mentality. He did well and never put me under pressure...... so the hell with it, try whatever you want !!!

[nick1408]

Inoticed in some earlier posts you mention Bodmer a bit. he must have been a shining light to you. I am still trying to get my head around the building side of the tactic but i feel I am only a few games away from sucess. my main downfall is what to change game-to-game, but your mentioning of the d-line before was a huge help

[FuSS]

would somebody be so kinda as to upload this tactic with the individual instructions set, I'm very keen to compare and onctrast with me own similar looking formation.

And i of course realise that there's an argument thats it's pointless as you have to edit the tactic properly to your own team.....howeverit would be nice to have a starting basis for those of us that are simply far too lazy to put in all the instructions ourselves.

[lam]

MF,

I am sorry to say that i am not going to go against the wishes of the originator of this post. Cleon has stated several times in here that he will not upload the tactic.

its not just a case of not loading it because it has to be tweaked, its because all of the information you need is in the post already.

Anyone here can try and help with questions, but you will have to start the tactic yourself.

its about your players, set what they are good at.

Lee

[Cleon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">howeverit would be nice to have a starting basis for those of us that are simply far too lazy to put in all the instructions ourselves. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Go away, noone is going to upload it, and if they do I'll remove it.

This is a discussion not a download

[nick1408]

well after the whole month of Jnuary I have finally struck gold (and just jinxed myself in the gloating process). I did exactly what was mentioned a few posts ago about setting the attacking WB to a more defensive type and hey presto! I have got the team playing how I want.

I have added a few players to the team, most notably Isaksson from ManC as Schwarzer went down injured for 3-4 months. I also got craig gardner from aston villa as well as 5m for pogatetz which i felt was more than worth it but I left myself 1 CD short.

My post 1Jan results read as follows:

2-1 Birmingham

0-0 Everton FA Cup

3-1 Man City

0-2 Everton FA Cup Replay (lost this due to a red card early in extra time)

2-0 Tottenham

3-0 Bolton

5-2 Newcastle (Injury in with CD's forced me to play my usual WBL in a CD role and suspension also forced some changes I didn't want to make)

As you can see I have done all right, results wise. The only tweaking pre-match I did was raise or lower CD and Ment. CD was raised or lowered according to opp striker pace and ment was raised or lowered my opp quality.

I also raised the mentality of my centre CD to around 15 (I think) as this was mentioned a few pages back and seems to work well in disrupting opp attacks thru the centre and gives another player sitting just inside the offensive half for my attacks. very useful. Wheater is my centre guy, not spiranovic as I think most would assume

Anyway, off to see how I can finish off the season

[lam]

Nick,

Looks like you have got it. there are some great results in there especially with the Spurs and Man City games. they are very strong teams in this game.

In relation to your cup games, you may have read the comment from Cleon about his cup games. I had a bit of a stinking on my league cup last year and Cleon mentioned that he often has bad runs in the cup with this tactic.

on another note. I rarely touch the mentality, unless i am kicking ass or nothing is happening.

I tend to raise by one click for all the players bar the DC's but then i also raise the CF by one click.

I read an interesting post a few weeks back about CF and someone mentioned that if they are controling the game and nothing is happening, they will increase CF rather than the mentality. He stated that if his team were controling the game, then the mentality was probably about right, but if he was unable to score, then the team needed to loosen up a bit.

Generally speaking it seems to work, but as with most things i change, i do not know if its the mentality or the CF that did the trick.

Nice work btw

[FuSS]

ok i've been reading the whole thread as it progresses and have already been contributing to it and i've obviously overlooked that, but i dont think i warrented the nasty response!!

Im already playing a tactic similar to this that was based upon Jazzfusion's popular tactic which is very simlar to this one.

[Cleon]

If you read the whole thread you'd know that I didnt want people downloading it. If you want the tactic, you create it from the screenshots above. I dont want people asking for downloads all the time in a discussion thread.

[Dirty_ACE]

Am I under the correct impression that once you've set up the PIs and you're happy with what you're seeing, it is not necessary to tweak them afterwards for any matches, besides maybe closing down? However, you still need to tweak things like defensive line, width, time wasting, and tempo. Is this right?

[lam]

DA,

I can only tell you how i play. I have a default setup. Before a game starts ill tweak the DL vs their players.

I will not touch anything else until during the game. At that poitn, anything goes.

I play around with width alot during a game, but once im happy with the DL that stays put unless a sub makes a difference to it.

Lee

[Dirty_ACE]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lam:

DA,

I can only tell you how i play. I have a default setup. Before a game starts ill tweak the DL vs their players.

I will not touch anything else until during the game. At that poitn, anything goes.

I play around with width alot during a game, but once im happy with the DL that stays put unless a sub makes a difference to it.

Lee </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Lee, but I'm mostly concerned with individual instructions. I'm just wondering how necessary it is to start tweaking them from match to match. After all if you've set them up in a way that you think works and gets the best out of your players then why mess with it. This is the impression I'm getting from Cleon and others here.

[heathxxx]

Once you've got something that works and is set up well with your own players, there's no need to tweak (apart from some OI and possibly width in some games), plus there's no need for Cleon to post a download link.

Therein lies the point of the thread. A tactical outline with plenty of info, for readers to draw their own conclusions, discuss what changes and why, and adapt to suit their team.

[Dirty_ACE]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by heathxxx:

Once you've got something that works and is set up well with your own players, there's no need to tweak (apart from some OI and possibly width in some games), plus there's no need for Cleon to post a download link.

Therein lies the point of the thread. A tactical outline with plenty of info, for readers to draw their own conclusions, discuss what changes and why, and adapt to suit their team. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for clearing that up heath and I agree that a download link is unnecessary as it's all about customizing the instructions and not copying them. However, there lies my problem. I can't seem to adapt it suit my team even with Cleon's and Lee's suggestions.

I'm sorry for shifting the focus a bit to myself but I've re-posted the images again (they're bigger now) on my thread in regards to the difficulties I'm having in setting up my team according to this thread. I'd greatly appreciate any help.

Ok back on topic.

[Drezzler]

Cleon, i played this game for a very long time, but how do WE find this version of FM completely valid if 30% of all goals are made from corners?? I never seen such a big flaw as that.. It sorta ruined my passion for tactics. It should have been fixed immidiately cuz the farmer boy from BOOMtown won over me cuz his defender scored more than my striker. Tell me man, how cool is that??