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Syrup & Honey - A tactical discussion


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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Drezzler:

Cleon, i played this game for a very long time, but how do WE find this version of FM completely valid if 30% of all goals are made from corners?? I never seen such a big flaw as that.. It sorta ruined my passion for tactics. It should have been fixed immidiately cuz the farmer boy from BOOMtown won over me cuz his defender scored more than my striker. Tell me man, how cool is that?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Simple, dont use it.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lam:

Nick,

Looks like you have got it. there are some great results in there especially with the Spurs and Man City games. they are very strong teams in this game.

In relation to your cup games, you may have read the comment from Cleon about his cup games. I had a bit of a stinking on my league cup last year and Cleon mentioned that he often has bad runs in the cup with this tactic.

on another note. I rarely touch the mentality, unless i am kicking ass or nothing is happening.

I tend to raise by one click for all the players bar the DC's but then i also raise the CF by one click.

I read an interesting post a few weeks back about CF and someone mentioned that if they are controling the game and nothing is happening, they will increase CF rather than the mentality. He stated that if his team were controling the game, then the mentality was probably about right, but if he was unable to score, then the team needed to loosen up a bit.

Generally speaking it seems to work, but as with most things i change, i do not know if its the mentality or the CF that did the trick.

Nice work btw </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, it wasn't mentality i change, it is tempo.

Thanks for the help. those few words really helped

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True that Cleon. Anyways, i applied your settings with mids and wingers and found my equilibrium for the tactic i use and i found it very useful. My tactic actually got some balance by reading this thread..Rosina is doing superb for my everton, just denied 29 mille pound bid. I can sell him for 45 mille but i wait til xmas....

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Just witnessed my first opposition defence ala the Cleons saved game style.

I have not seen it before apart from in that saved game.

Players left open all over the shop. I just love that through ball when it on !!!

I thought perhaps i was going mad and it was happening previously without me noticing, but now that i have seen i can safely say that its not happened before.

Cleon .... two questions if you dont mind?

1. did you indicate somewhere that this happens alot?

2. i will obviously find this out in due course, but could it be down to the reputation now of my wingers, or is it simply an opposition tactic to mark that way?

Lee

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Sunny,

Have not tried that yet, but was thinking about it. When do you implement it? is it against certain teams or when you notice the long ball ingame or straight from the off?

On another note/.... one for a discussion or observation.

IN relation to the AMR. I have two players that can play in this position. They are fairly similar with one being younger and still with a bit to learn in relation to skills. But overall, they are both very good players. However, the younger of the two players is not very good at crossing.

Although the PI's are to not cross and they have low CF. I have noticed (i think) that the player without crossing seems to get into the box more often and certainly scores more goals. I has scored 3 in his last 3 games.

Anyone else noticed this?

Lee

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lam, I gave just raised the ment on the central def to acheive the same result. also, your AMR is doing pretty well. As I mentioned before I am using Tuncay and for the season he scored 8 goals in 22 games.

I have now finished the season in 7th which i feel is pretty good considering the start. I finished with 15 wins, 5 draws and 17 losses with 54 for and against. Remember though before I fixed this tactic up at the half way point (after 19 games) I was 6 wins and 13 losses, so from the last 19 games I had 10 wins, 5 draws and 4 losses which I feel was a pretty damn good turn around and also a good example of how the wrong player and team instructions can stuff you right up.

It will be interesting to see how this tactic goes second season around

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Another thing i have noticed. i need to look at it more, but it costs goals, so i dont want to 'test' it to much icon_wink.gif

If i play with a high D-line and a very narrow width, i get left very exposed down the wings.

it stands to reason obviously, but considering i think the D-line and width are key to this tactic, its something that you need to be aware of.

I am going to try and play slightly wider when playing with a high DL and see what happens.

Lee

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Nick,

Not a bad result, as you have poined out, given the start you got off to.

Let us know on the pitch size. I went for the safe option of standard size.

Lee

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lam:

Sunny,

Have not tried that yet, but was thinking about it. When do you implement it? is it against certain teams or when you notice the long ball ingame or straight from the off? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I use it all the time, but i switch it off when i want to secure a lead, or hold on when the AI uses its 4-2-4.

I use full pitch size and i rule at home.

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I am really struggling with this this season.

I am 11 played, 6 won, 4 drawn and 1 loss.

In the whole of last season i drew 5 and lost 1.

My front three just do not seem to be linking in the EPL.

I am kicking ass in Europe. 3 played, 3 won goal aggregate 15:3.

I can not seem to get the width correct. To narrow and they are all sitting on top of themselves and then to wide where the defenders do not get drawn anywhere. All ratings are dowm.

Will keep working at it though.

Lee

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I have a theory why Tuncay was not as prolific as I would have liked. As I had Luke Young set to a more defensive style of attacking WB he didn't get the delivery as what he would have with a more attacking style of WB. I have got a polish guy now in that position so I will report any changes

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Nick,

You might still be able to get some supply fromy your defencive WB, but its likely you will have to raise his passing style.

Lee

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Nick,

You might still be able to get some supply fromy your defencive WB, but its likely you will have to raise his passing style.

Lee

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Hi Cleon,

I must say I am very impressed with this setup of yours. I have beaten Chelsea 5-1 in the community shield as Man Utd. I dominated the game for 90 minutes and the defence is so good that Chelsea's chances came about only in long shots and corners. The one goal that I leaked was from corner (using default defensive corner setup).

I have been playing Man Utd for ages and I must admit I have never beaten Chelsea so comprehensively. I followed your advice and made the following changes to accommodate my players:

Width - first notch of narrow, tempo - first notch of quick, DL - first notch of push up

Using the same individual instructions except making RWB as attacking as the LWB as I got Rafinha in.

I notice that when this formation of yours playing against good team (like Chelsea which usually adopt an attacking formation) created space for the lone striker to exploit. In the game against Chelsea, Rooney got two fabulous through balls and one on one chances which he converted. In both occasions Terry and Alex just ignore Rooney and went to mark Giggs (AML) and Ronaldo (AMR)instead. I am not sure if AI made Terry and Alex man marked them and if it did, that is kind of ridiculous (making DC to mark wingers? Although they stand in strikers positions when attacking icon_wink.gif). Do you consider this as exploiting AI weaknesses? However this does not happen against lower teams which usually play a defensive formation against me.

All in all, this is a great tactic. I had been tweaking individual instructions ever since and I find this much more enjoyable than tweaking the team instructions!

Thanks Cleon!

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lam:

Cleon,

Would you mind if i asked who your striker is and his abilities.

I am (only) halfway through my first game playing a far inferior team, yet i can not seem to link to my striker.

My FC is slow, but leathal shooting (20).

Lee </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A lone striker needs pace. Surely from the stats posted above you can tell who my striker was? icon_biggrin.gif Billy Sharp, but I've sold him now and got someone else. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>good tactic..

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

Before I get into the details of this thread, id first like to point out that, this thread is more about different ideas and a different way of making tactics. Rather than it being something to download and use. I will not be putting the tactic up for download, as I want this to be discussion based. If you try and emulate my success, you may have different results that I did due to what I changed/didnt change and how I may see things happening on the pitch.

This is by far the best formation that I have used on FM this year. It offers great defensive cover, aswell as plenty of numbers going forward. I have used this with lots of different teams and had simliar success across the board. I've used Arsenal, Lyon, Shakhtar, New York, Sheffield United, Chengdu Blades and WS Woulwe.

I also know Buxton as used this too and had simliar success. We threw a lot of ideas around for a few weeks on how to set this up, so a lot of work and effort got put into this, not only by me but Buxton too.

Most people play with a back 4 on FM, but as usual I wanted to move away from that again. I've always liked the thought of proper wingbacks supporting attacks. So when Buxton told me the shape he was thinking of using, I also had a crack at it. I was impressed from the way it played and there are also many ways in which you can set this up.

I'll explain more in the next post.

I'm going to split this thread up, so each reply covers something different. That was I can fill it up with as much info as possible about my team, players, settings and tactic used. This way, its easier to relay the information. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Tactic link please

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Anakinda,

Cleon has stated several times in this post that he is not going to post the tactic.

The thing i find amusing about this is that if you had read the whole post you would have known this, however as you didnt you posted your question.... the thing is if you didnt read the whole post, how do you know it was posted somewhere.

You are either ignoring the threads originator or you are not reading the post. Either way..... not good.

Implement like everyone else is. read and apply. Its not all that hard. 10 mins top !!!!

Lee

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I always use TTB on mixed for my fullbacks to play balls down the wings for my wingers to run onto, I was wondering if there was a reason you chose to have it on rarely?

I also have wingers with TTB on mixed to play balls in behind for the striker, same question as before but for wingers?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mag man:

I always use TTB on mixed for my fullbacks to play balls down the wings for my wingers to run onto, I was wondering if there was a reason you chose to have it on rarely?

I also have wingers with TTB on mixed to play balls in behind for the striker, same question as before but for wingers? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I want my wingers and fullbacks to overlap, if I give them ttb's they wont do this.

As for wingers I want 1 to score, so if I give him ttb's he will pass rather than run at people.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mag man:

I always use TTB on mixed for my fullbacks to play balls down the wings for my wingers to run onto, I was wondering if there was a reason you chose to have it on rarely?

I also have wingers with TTB on mixed to play balls in behind for the striker, same question as before but for wingers? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I want my wingers and fullbacks to overlap, if I give them ttb's they wont do this.

As for wingers I want 1 to score, so if I give him ttb's he will pass rather than run at people. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for quick answer, ive just been trying this and have been seeing the overlapping a lot more.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I want my wingers and fullbacks to overlap, if I give them ttb's they wont do this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Never thought about it this way. Interesting though - once I set my FBs and Wingers TTB rarely, I got (4 games played):

1)Pass completed increased from 70% to 79% on average (expected);

2)Possession increased from 48% to 56% (also expected);

3) Scored 3.0 per game vs. 1.8 before (somewhat expected, though it's not because my wingers scored the difference);

4) Conceede 1 in 4 games (0.25 on average) vs. 1.4 before (didn't think it will make such effect - I guess it's mainly because of pass completion and possession).

I did not change anything else at all.

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Hello, Im trying to get success with United so ive adapted this...

As you can imagine the poorer teams clam up...4-42 no arrows.

Ive drawn 1- Derby and 0-0 Fulham......

what tweeks do you do in this situation??

also, you say you use key moments 90% what tweeks would you make if opposition were have all the key oments???

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Still using a "Syrup & Honey"-esque tactic now trying to mix things up a little and change the shape what im working on now is a 2 CBs, 2WBs, 3 CMs, 1AM, 2 STs. Its not looking solid and is still quite new yet but im confident givin time and some setting changes it should work quite well trying to get it going with man u then ill move onto lower teams. It used most "S&H" player settings but different team and shape. Stole your wingbacks though cleon!

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Have many of you tried this with a lower league team.

I quite fancy having a go at bring some 3rd division team through the ranks.

Lee

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lam:

Have many of you tried this with a lower league team.

I quite fancy having a go at bring some 3rd division team through the ranks.

Lee </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I started using this in the BSS, got promoted within a season of using it in the BSP, achieved a safe midtable with it but my players are terrible. Most goals conceeded are from mistakes or set pieces. I find the biggest problem is the WBs I have mine as ultra defensive and it has helped.

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ok, as much as i love spurs, i think i will re-start or even just move to a LLT.

the media will love that and all those teams that i was linked with.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mag man:

Cleon,

On an older version of FM i used to play this formation but with 2 strikers and 2 cbs rather than 1 and 3.

I was wondering what you thought of changing the system to have 2 strikers? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cleon's a heretic im pretty sure he's not into to two strikers on FM icon_razz.gif

I think with these player settings you can mix the shape round a bit (a lot even) as long as you end up with 5 players defending (at least) and 5 attacking in possesion and out of posession, ive took out the AML, AMR & CB position. I now have 2 Strikers a AM and 3 CMs, a few different PI and i have global Team settings i dont touch much.

But reading this thread and playing around with Syrup and Honey (Cleons version) failing has made me pick up FM (tactic wise) and learn quite a lot im starting to dominate and win teams now with my own tactic-ish (its a version of Syrup and Honey some how) Just need to get my ratio of Shots on Target into Goals now. Amongts with getting my AMC more space. But Ronaldo is dominating in the ST sarrowed Role.

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well, I have struck issues 11 games in. 2-0 and 3-0 nill losses every game. Even in the easy games I am letting in goals. Hopefully I can arrest this form slump. I have already tried by moving my attacking MC into a striker and having my centre DC's mentality the same as the other two. now i will try the outside DC's on man marking and a few other things to try and salvage euro competition

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May I just say thank you Cleon for helping me develop my first own successful tactic!

I'm usually a bit of a moaner (I'm still not happy with the difficulty of the game) but this guide REALLY helped me. I thought I'd go for a tactic based on what sort of shape might work and sort of stole the wingers idea. Only using the stats I made up the tactic. The result from that season were:

04242008160940ze9.jpg

Sorry for large image there.

Quite phenomenal, especially at the back I thought, never kept so many clean sheets. Had problems earlier in the season with the scoring but it all ended up clicking after about 20 games.

It may not work for everyone, but it certainly worked for me.

Again, thank you for such a detailed and intricate guide.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zhiyuan:

Hi Cleon,

I must say I am very impressed with this setup of yours. I have beaten Chelsea 5-1 in the community shield as Man Utd. I dominated the game for 90 minutes and the defence is so good that Chelsea's chances came about only in long shots and corners. The one goal that I leaked was from corner (using default defensive corner setup).

I have been playing Man Utd for ages and I must admit I have never beaten Chelsea so comprehensively. I followed your advice and made the following changes to accommodate my players:

Width - first notch of narrow, tempo - first notch of quick, DL - first notch of push up

Using the same individual instructions except making RWB as attacking as the LWB as I got Rafinha in.

I notice that when this formation of yours playing against good team (like Chelsea which usually adopt an attacking formation) created space for the lone striker to exploit. In the game against Chelsea, Rooney got two fabulous through balls and one on one chances which he converted. In both occasions Terry and Alex just ignore Rooney and went to mark Giggs (AML) and Ronaldo (AMR)instead. I am not sure if AI made Terry and Alex man marked them and if it did, that is kind of ridiculous (making DC to mark wingers? Although they stand in strikers positions when attacking icon_wink.gif). Do you consider this as exploiting AI weaknesses? However this does not happen against lower teams which usually play a defensive formation against me.

All in all, this is a great tactic. I had been tweaking individual instructions ever since and I find this much more enjoyable than tweaking the team instructions!

Thanks Cleon! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I noticed the same thing against Chelsea but only Chelsea if i remember.

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yay , this tactic has made the game enjoyable again

i have tried every theory , every tactic and everything possible to play this damn game since the 8.0.2 release ..nothing ever worked

i dont like d l tacs as its pointless , but i do dl tacs to see how they work , or use theories to make my own ..

thing is i allways end up with the same sort of tacs ..prefering to play an AM on a free role , quick , short passin ..the usual kinda stuff

i made a decent 4-4-1-1 formation which i enjoyed loads of possesion with but never ever created many chances with it

im a strong believer that the cm,s should play thru balls , the wingers should do runs up the wing and cross the ball , and the strikers have all the shots

with many tactics this was not the case , wingers would not be involved , perhaps only attempting 8 or so passes , stikers would only have 1 or 2 shot attempts and the cm would have about 7 shots all from 40 yards

i am now using a similar tac to cleons theory , starting off the same , but altering it to how i like to watch my players act

its still eary days as i first started with arsenal ..which is an easy enuff task anyway

i found adebayor was getting 14 or 15 shots a game , scoring 4 or 5 many a time

but then the cm were not attempting many passes , esp the more attacking one

wingers also where not very involed , attemting no shots and very few passes ...but if im honest most of the assists where via them as you intended cleon

i then had a quick tinker putting both wingers on a free role , and both wingers on mixed run with ball , mixed crossing and mixed thru balls

immediate joy with these settings ..wingers started havin 19 -20 passes and 2 or 3 shots , but then the cm where having even less of the ball and less shots , mmmmmmmmmmmmm

i then left the wingers the same and started on the cm (the attacking one) ..i put him on mixed run with ball and also made him the playmaker

again , instand joy

my cm,s now have between 50 - 100 passes a game

wingers around 20 with 2or 3 shots and the centre striker now 5-7 shots

i have just played one game where the am had 112 passes with 105 completed , 2 assists , 1 goal which in anyones form is great !!!!all be it it was cesc

realising that i was arsenal i decided to save up and start a new game as blackburn , a medeocre team that aint great but can play well

same joy with balckburn , all players are doing exactly what i like em to do ...im dominating home and away , creating chances , leaking few goals ...its great fun

i must say that i have changes the defence aswell slightly ..i have now put 3 or 4 players on defend corners from near post ..to try and cut out leaking goals from corners when AI is using the so called bug ..it also has worked a treat

i also sometimes click the counter attack button if things look abit ropey ..when the opp has about 3 shots against me without reply from my team , and i am starting to get dominated the counter button sorts it right away usualy (home or away it dont matter )

other than that cleon , great work

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Just about finished my Tactic based loosely on your syrup & honey tactic just stole ideas from it (especially wing backs) and put in a few different roles and about to start my first season with this tactic, testing it with premiership sides it looks really good.

So thanks cleon.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

I want my wingers and fullbacks to overlap, if I give them ttb's they wont do this.

As for wingers I want 1 to score, so if I give him ttb's he will pass rather than run at people. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting, Cleon, if I wanted a Gerrard like role, making surging runs into the box to score, it would be best not giving him TTB, but often FWR and RWB, would you say that sounds about right?

TTB's would be better left to his midfield partner.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jaycar:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

I want my wingers and fullbacks to overlap, if I give them ttb's they wont do this.

As for wingers I want 1 to score, so if I give him ttb's he will pass rather than run at people. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting, Cleon, if I wanted a Gerrard like role, making surging runs into the box to score, it would be best not giving him TTB, but often FWR and RWB, would you say that sounds about right?

TTB's would be better left to his midfield partner. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Never give someone you want to score ttb's icon_smile.gif

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Never give someone you want to score ttb's </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is it SI concept football or just how it's programmed? If the former is the case, it's a little dissapointing icon_confused.gif

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Probably neither, if you think about it, TTB means trying to play another player in with a sly pass, therefore you don't want to give it to wingers you want to run at people, or ST playing on the shoulder of the last man, or as in my example a Gerrard/Lampard box to box runner who you expcet to make runs into the box.

You WOULD give it to a playmaker who you want to create goals for others, i.e. a slightly more defensive MC, or a AMC if thats the way you want them to play.

I also wouldn't be surprised if they are best left to central players fullstop, just as you wouldn't really give a central player cross ball, unless you want them pulling wider.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Probably neither, if you think about it, TTB means trying to play another player in with a sly pass, therefore you don't want to give it to wingers you want to run at people, or ST playing on the shoulder of the last man, or as in my example a Gerrard/Lampard box to box runner who you expcet to make runs into the box.

You WOULD give it to a playmaker who you want to create goals for others, i.e. a slightly more defensive MC, or a AMC if thats the way you want them to play.

I also wouldn't be surprised if they are best left to central players fullstop, just as you wouldn't really give a central player cross ball, unless you want them pulling wider. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

IRL I would definitely give it to ST playing on the last man shoulder of the last man icon_wink.gif, especially with formation like this, when wingers are supposed to be very fast and cut the angle to the box. Likewise wingers with TTB could create additional chances for pacey ST, especially when AI's DCs mark wingers icon_wink.gif. Through ball to me means that player pass the ball into empty zone rather than to feet. Apparently it's not the case in the game icon_confused.gif

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BTW, I think one of the best RL examples of my trough ball understanding would be AC Milan vs. Barcelona LC final - AC players almost never passed the ball to feet, but controlled the game completely as every pass was into uncontrolled zone where AC player suddenly appeared out of nowhere. Once a player picked such pass, he could do whatever he wanted - run with ball, shoot or make another pass - he had hours to make a decision icon_wink.gif

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">BTW, I think one of the best RL examples of my trough ball understanding would be AC Milan vs. Barcelona LC final - AC players almost never passed the ball to feet, but controlled the game completely as every pass was into uncontrolled zone where AC player suddenly appeared out of nowhere. Once a player picked such pass, he could do whatever he wanted - run with ball, shoot or make another pass - he had hours to make a decision </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

1994 final, Milan won 4-0

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Probably neither, if you think about it, TTB means trying to play another player in with a sly pass, therefore you don't want to give it to wingers you want to run at people, or ST playing on the shoulder of the last man, or as in my example a Gerrard/Lampard box to box runner who you expcet to make runs into the box.

You WOULD give it to a playmaker who you want to create goals for others, i.e. a slightly more defensive MC, or a AMC if thats the way you want them to play.

I also wouldn't be surprised if they are best left to central players fullstop, just as you wouldn't really give a central player cross ball, unless you want them pulling wider. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly icon_smile.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> IRL I would definitely give it to ST playing on the last man shoulder of the last man </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If hes the the highest player up the pitch, whats the point of trying a ttb?! there would be noone to pass to as a winger wouldnt pass the striker. If the striker went wide to play the winger in, this would come under crossing.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Through ball to me means that player pass the ball into empty zone rather than to feet. Apparently it's not the case in the game </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No a through ball is trying to play another play in who is more advanced.

A through ball can either be to feet, in the air, or space for a player to run onto. But a ttb is not a backward pass, it must be advanced.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">No a through ball is trying to play another play in who is more advanced.

A through ball can either be to feet, in the air, or space for a player to run onto. But a ttb is not a backward pass, it must be advanced. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then I am conceptually wrong.

Yes, it must be advanced, but it should never directly be to feet - it should be into empty space (e.g. between DC and FB where winger should run without ball). It gives 2 advantages - makes it confusing for defs who should go for the ball and allows winger (ST, AMC, whoever) to get the ball whilst already moving.

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