An American in Football land.

[senorcoo]

i don't get mls

Think of it like Premiership Reserve sides...except with those fellows kids playing.

[Don Lebanon]

i personally ordered it online, so whenever it gets to me it gets to me, not in any rush, for now i can just read up and tactics and theories and other things related to the game

[stevie_G_32201]

the OP is no longer online

[Dregganor]

Oh my God I am being over-run by Americans! Well as I've said it's great to hear you all so passionate about your teams and the game! What do you guys think about Becks by the way?

Everyone's always raving about how great he is for the sport, but most of the attention he receives is because of his celebrity status... I guess his fame can sort of help introduce new people to the sport, but I don't think it will be that much of a difference in the long run.

I'm also getting sick of ignorant Americans that think Bechkam is supposed to score every time he gets the ball.. Maybe that's just the people in my area.. lol

[Daley]

i personally ordered it online, so whenever it gets to me it gets to me, not in any rush, for now i can just read up and tactics and theories and other things related to the game

Not sure how long you've been playing Fm but Tactics wise (and in my humble opinion) you should check out wwfan's threads as they will really give you an insight to the tactics and what the dreaded 'sliders' can do for you!

[stevie_G_32201]

right its 12:50 now here in england im off to bed

[Don Lebanon]

as for becks its nice to see him go back to top european team and keep after his goal for england caps. phenomenal player with great attitude, im just wondering for those who used to watch him at man utd at the beginning of his career, how to did he make it professionally because it seems he has no pace nor any dribbling skills or did that slowly fade over the years, because i doubt S.A.F would promote a player from reserves based just on set pieces and crossing.

[Daley]

Everyone's always raving about how great he is for the sport, but most of the attention he receives is because of his celebrity status... I guess his fame can sort of help introduce new people to the sport, but I don't think it will be that much of a difference in the long run.

I'm also getting sick of ignorant Americans that think Bechkam is supposed to score every time he gets the ball.. Maybe that's just the people in my area.. lol

Well having seen him sooooo many times for Utd he is a great player (not as good as he used to be!) however 1 man does not make the team. I agree that he will be great for bringing in other European (and possibly South American) talent but also sponsorship and perhaps more importantly coverage of the game in the US! I agree that it is his celebrity status that really brings this rather than his football but he is still a very good (not great anymore) player!

[Dregganor]

Well having seen him sooooo many times for Utd he is a great player (not as good as he used to be!) however 1 man does not make the team. I agree that he will be great for bringing in other European (and possibly South American) talent but also sponsorship and perhaps more importantly coverage of the game in the US! I agree that it is his celebrity status that really brings this rather than his football but he is still a very good (not great anymore) player!

I agree he is still good, and was once great, but many people just expected him to be some footballing god over here, which he obviously isn't. I think the MLS will continue to improve, but it will still be a while before it's any good, in my opinion.

[Atredes71]

Becks is what I figured when he signed - good when healthy, but rarely 100%. The impact of having him in the league is great though and can't be measured by performance only.

The MLS (to me) will never have credibility till they go to a single table and do-away with silly American-style divisions. Let their be a champion for the season and have a playoff for a cup if they must.

[Atredes71]

So then are they restricting you to the 17th as a release date then?

I refresh the steam WWSM order page a couple times each day and it still says 17th.

[Daley]

as for becks its nice to see him go back to top european team and keep after his goal for england caps. phenomenal player with great attitude, im just wondering for those who used to watch him at man utd at the beginning of his career, how to did he make it professionally because it seems he has no pace nor any dribbling skills or did that slowly fade over the years, because i doubt S.A.F would promote a player from reserves based just on set pieces and crossing.

Ah Stevie gone to bed so we can talk about Becks ( only joking Stevie!) As a Utd season ticket holder I may be in a reasonable place to answer that question ( although I'm not Sir Alex) he made it because of a number of reasons in my humble opinion:

Dedication - he was always playing the game 24/7 as a kid and then took that attitude into his professional career.

Ability to beat a man - That may sound strange but if you watch him even now, Becks can beat a player without having to go past him! See how he looks up as the ball is played to him or when he's running unchallenged so that he knows where his team mates are and judges where they will be so that he can play an early ball.

Even when he was young at Utd he rarely went past players, he either got the ball, played a quick ball to a team mate and ran on or played and early cross.

The other thing that Becks is great at is reading the game (I actually think he's found that harder to do in the US due to the differnce in class of player, I suppose that if a great American Football player came over to Europe to play in an American Football League he may find the same restrictions apply!) he seems to understand where the ball is going to end up and perhaps more importantly how other players will react to a situation.

Anyway I guess I'm saying his brain works quicker than his feet!

[Daley]

I refresh the steam WWSM order page a couple times each day and it still says 17th.

Now that I do find strange, I'm guessing that SI have their reasons but as I said previously there may be some upsides to getting the game a couple of games late!

[Pope of Pot, King of Nothi]

I'm not one for supporting a team and fiercely denouncing all rivals, etc, so I can say that I love watching Arsenal play beautiful football - and I can appreciate the attacking prowess of Man Utd.

What I am trying to lead to, is that I have always been a fan of D. Beckham. It's hard at times though, because you see him plastered half naked across billboards and such (don't hear the girls complaining, mind), and wonder if he's really doing it for the football or just the lifestyle - but when you see him take the pitch, or do interviews, you notice that he is the consummate professional; a footballer above all else, and a celebrity second. He gives 110% always, none of this Ashley Cole nonsense. The man lives, and breathes football - and we'd be better if we had more like him (Steven Gerrard springs to mind).

Though I do question his taste in lady.

[Cerritos]

I don't get it, Americans seem to love Arsenal.

I could be wrong, but Nick Hornby might have something to do with that.

But don't ask me, I support Wrexham.

[Daley]

I'm not one for supporting a team and fiercely denouncing all rivals, etc, so I can say that I love watching Arsenal play beautiful football - and I can appreciate the attacking prowess of Man Utd.

What I am trying to lead to, is that I have always been a fan of D. Beckham. It's hard at times though, because you see him plastered half naked across billboards and such (don't hear the girls complaining, mind), and wonder if he's really doing it for the football or just the lifestyle - but when you see him take the pitch, or do interviews, you notice that he is the consummate professional; a footballer above all else, and a celebrity second. He gives 110% always, none of this Ashley Cole nonsense. The man lives, and breathes football - and we'd be better if we had more like him (Steven Gerrard springs to mind).

Though I do question his taste in lady.

As a Utd Supporter (and Season ticket holder) I couldn't agree with you more, I would suggest that a majority of Utd fans still believe that the only reason he left us was due to her career! Yes he has learnt from her that the value (in sponsorship) of celebrity status is alot, he has always been the consumate professional. Stevie G is a very good example (of professionalism) but he (like Scholes & Giggs has not really adopted the celebrity lifestyle!)

[Don Lebanon]

I see how many europeans are surprised right now at how much knowledge us americans and canadians have about the beautiful game, and i'd just like to add on that we also know about other things related to football other than on pitch matters such as sky sports news and watching jamie redknapp and allan shearer commentate, also dont forget the Im On Setanta Sports w/ jose mourinho, BE CHAMPIONS and goodnight.

[this_game_is_unrealistic]

American checking in here. I've played FM since the CM 01/02 glory days. I am a long time West Ham supporter as well. Overall, I enjoy the newer FMs a good bit, but I think they skimp on the intricacies. I remember the day I was playing CM 01/02 and Roy Keane got a year long ban for punching a referee! Now THAT'S realism.

[Daley]

American checking in here. I've played FM since the CM 01/02 glory days. I am a long time West Ham supporter as well. Overall, I enjoy the newer FMs a good bit, but I think they skimp on the intricacies. I remember the day I was playing CM 01/02 and Roy Keane got a year long ban for punching a referee! Now THAT'S realism.

I hate to correct you but I am very sure that Keane never punched a Ref, and certainly don't recall him being banned for a year!

[Sweed]

One more American that has become a big fan of football. Spent many years thinking soccer was a boring game while never giving it a real chance. After some other US gamers steered me to FM I found out what I was missing.

Bought my first WWSM in 06, the last year I know of it was available in store. Took the game home knowing nothing of tactics, transfers, promotion, demotion, etc. Tempted to quit many times but didn't. Plowed through learning as I went and also got a lot of help from users that answered my questions on these SI boards. Then I found the tactics section and wwfan's informative posts that taught me a lot about both real world football and FM tactics.

Started watching what few matches I could get on US tv and fell in love with the game. Then was able to pick up the Fox Soccer Channel with Dish Network and so now get matches every Sat and Sunday. Have become a Liverpool supporter but enjoy watching any match that happens to be on.

Like the others MLS really doesn't do it for me. Just doesn't have the atmosphere of a Premier League game. It reminds me of the difference between watching a college baseball game compared to a MLB game, the level of play just isn't comparable. I do hope though, over time, it will continue to grow.

[Pope of Pot, King of Nothi]

Similar to the A-League here. Went to a Newcastle Jets game and almost got rumbled! Weren't even wearing a Sydney jersey, either!!!

[Trevor L.]

Glad to see my post actually being enjoyed. :-) I have watched MLS games for many years and while not as good as EPL it is not completely hopeless to watch, But I do think EPL is the best football to watch. I try to watch some Bundesliga, Serie A and other European leagues when I get a chance also. Roma and Bayern are some of my favorites also. I enjoyed watching Becks played the few times he did over here. I heard a rumour Zidane may come over and play, now that would put MLS on the map.

Trevor L.

[DougyMarshall]

I got my American friend right into the booootiful game.

Even managed to make him a Rangers fan.

"I'm Rangers till I die,

I'm Rangers till I die,

I know I am,

I'm sure I am

I'm Rangers till I die..."

Can be heard many a time from him.

[Bardia]

I don't think it's a problem of us getting behind the game itself- it's the fact that some of us don't want a separate product (WSM) that we have to wait longer for and can't do as much with as a far as third party apps go.

[Bardia]

And by the way, I don't know where I can buy the game from a store, none of the stores in my area sell WSM or FM.

[torsportsfan]

Yass, well done mate, good to see a Canadian tim. Is TFC Toronto?, If so they'll be my favourite MLS side. However what's this about Larsson, could the king of kings really ever be overrated?

Yep TFC is Toronto FC, by FAR the most supported club in the MLS, sold out every game, I think this is due part that Toronto is the most multicultural city in the world(45% immigrants).

What I don't like about the MLS is the fact that some teams play in American Football Stadiums, I know they are building soccer stadiums but I can not watch TFC play New York.

[leedsam]

I'm an American too who discovered the game surfing the net. This will be my 7th or 8th year playing it and appreciate the hard work that SI puts in to make the great game that it is. This is really the only pc game that I play. Leeds is my fav team and it has been a very difficult time with the issues they faced. Thanks RISDALE. I usually start with them until the sack and end up playing lower division teams because of the challenge. I am trying to be a fan of MLS but playing a MLS team in FM has been boring and I usually go back to an English team. Please go back to the release date of the 14th. I was ready to waste the whole weekend to gettng started.

[Pope of Pot, King of Nothi]

Haha

[jamboblue]

i like the MLS, and surprisingly understand it, some of the new features in 09 will make playing in the MLS amore realistic experience, btw does anyone know if seattle are in this year?

[torsportsfan]

Pretty sure Seattle is not in it this year, SI only gets the rights for the league previous, so Seattle will not enter in the league via an "expansion draft"

[fighting irish]

I have been playing here in America since CM3 and I agree this is the best sports management simulation created.

But I do have one concern about the American market. I recently gave my old versions of FM06 and FM07 to American friends who I know are already big fans of the beautiful game. I was hoping to get a few more Yanks hooked on the game so I could have somebody to talk about it with at work.

It turns out that they both hated the game. Somewhere along the way the game has gotten difficult to start playing well without having knowledge of previous versions and the changes that evolved over time.

Even the simplest things. One of my co-workers gave it to his son who is a highly regarded high school player in our area and has trained over in England during the summer months. The boy tried to load up every league on the game and was very frustrated that 90 minutes later his computer was still chugging away on the set-up files. When he finally got going, his favorite player was injured in the first friendly and was out for the next 5 months. I tried to tell him that you only want a handful of leagues or else the files get too large, but it was too late. The first impression was already cast unfavorably.

The game is so big now. It took me a long time to get comfortable with tactics, the meaning of the scout and assistant manager reports and star rating system, how much training could be done, how to handle players, the press interactions...I can't imagine how newcomers to the game can possibly cope with all this at once.

[stevie_G_32201]

Ah Stevie gone to bed so we can talk about Becks ( only joking Stevie!) As a Utd season ticket holder I may be in a reasonable place to answer that question ( although I'm not Sir Alex) he made it because of a number of reasons in my humble opinion:

Dedication - he was always playing the game 24/7 as a kid and then took that attitude into his professional career.

Ability to beat a man - That may sound strange but if you watch him even now, Becks can beat a player without having to go past him! See how he looks up as the ball is played to him or when he's running unchallenged so that he knows where his team mates are and judges where they will be so that he can play an early ball.

Even when he was young at Utd he rarely went past players, he either got the ball, played a quick ball to a team mate and ran on or played and early cross.

The other thing that Becks is great at is reading the game (I actually think he's found that harder to do in the US due to the differnce in class of player, I suppose that if a great American Football player came over to Europe to play in an American Football League he may find the same restrictions apply!) he seems to understand where the ball is going to end up and perhaps more importantly how other players will react to a situation.

Anyway I guess I'm saying his brain works quicker than his feet!

ha! i saw that! hehe

[Amaroq]

The game is so big now. It took me a long time to get comfortable with tactics, the meaning of the scout and assistant manager reports and star rating system, how much training could be done, how to handle players, the press interactions...I can't imagine how newcomers to the game can possibly cope with all this at once.

Yeah - there's a lot there.

My first attempt at the series was CM2, and back then, I gave it up as "Too complicated to understand". I mean, I had all these knobs, but I had no idea what they did.

I went to Premier Manager '98 as an alternative, learned more about the beautiful game both from that game and from paying closer attention IRL, and came back to this series for CM01/02 .. and got hooked.

I really worry that we do lose a lot of potential new users from the sheer complexity of the game. That's why I've been excited to see features like the context-sensitive in-game help, the pop-up tutorial bit, and this year's big addition: Assistant Manager feedback.

[looknohands]

I'd love to see D.C. United play in a small, football-specific stadium. As numerous as TFC's fans have been, I don't know if it gets any louder than the Bara Brava. Put them in a more intimate setting and you just might get some of that Premier League atmosphere.

[Don Lebanon]

Being a canadian and liverpool fan, i have to tell you looknohands that even though TFC has a great fan base, its no comparable to any big european stadiums and theirs, we are miles off, except for the chelsea fans, i think that TFC fans and DC united fans would probably outsing the chelsea fans, seeing as how they are always quiet and too busy playing around with the free flags supplied by Roman Abromovich as an attempt to create an atmosphere for the club, but what he doesnt know as that the chanting has to come from the heart not your wallet

[BobbyMooreIsGod]

Trevor,

If you're an Arse supporter, wait to see a game against Spuds for a real good punchup. One of the classic derbies in british football that is

Travis

I can honestly say that this game has helped me to appreciate the beautiful game even more. The tactics, the nuances. Just great. Next wish to actually go to England and go to an Arsenal game, preferably an Arsenal Vs Liverpool match.

Trevor L.

[ndebergerac]

I' a Scot living in the US and for the first time will wait the extra few days for the WWSM release.

The sport definitely has a fan base, but most guys much prefer games like FIFA and PES. For most casual fans FM is far too in depth for them. I enjoy playing Madden, but would never be able to understand a "Head Coach" version.

I too don't get the MLS, but then I don't watch it either.

I must add, most (not all) American fans I talk to about football don't seem to really know what they are talking about, they support Chelsea, and the like, for the glory rather than the love of the game. Most never played the sport and don't appreciate that it's a much harder game than it looks on TV, and that there are a lot more tactics to the game than what it might appear to the untrained eye.

The genuine fans appreciate that it can't always be all action with non stop shots on goal and attacking football, they get why a low scoring game is more exciting/entertaining than a game that has multiple scoring in every single game. (you know the sports I'm talking about;))

Anyway, I haven't played much of the demo, I find it impossible to get a real feel for it with only a 6 month in game trial, but I look forward to another great game from SI:thup:

[Amaroq]

I must add, most (not all) American fans I talk to about football don't seem to really know what they are talking about, they support Chelsea, and the like, for the glory rather than the love of the game. Most never played the sport and don't appreciate that it's a much harder game than it looks on TV, and that there are a lot more tactics to the game than what it might appear to the untrained eye.

I found this an odd quote about Americans; I don't doubt your experiences and I've certainly heard talk-show touts degrading "soccer" on radio call-in shows.

However, I've found that most Americans fall into one of four groups:

1. Don't know enough about the spot to have a club that they support, couldn't care less, and, as is typical of sports fans, tend to put down games which they don't understand.

2. Know the sport, played the sport, and follow internationals; may or may not have a club, club is often one of the big clubs (not for glory, but because it was the first they were exposed to) but may be somewhere outside of the top flight, usually for an obscure reason.

3. Played the sport as a youth and understand the basics, but have not been exposed to it at the highest levels.

4. Emigrated from somewhere which lives and breathes football, played the sport, and supports their ancestral club.

I was definitely in that third category as a young adult; its hard to believe now but at twenty years of age I did not know that there was a professional league outside of the U.S.; did not know that there was a World Cup; and had never heard of the European Championship, Champions League, etc. The mainstream American sports media simply did not cover global football.

That's changing a bit, now, I know, but I still find most Americans fit into one of those four categories.

Your description of someone who didn't play the game, doesn't know what he's talking about, but knows enough to support Chelsea "for the glory" just .. :confused: .. doesn't match my experiences.

[looknohands]

Chelsea? ManU? Arsenal? Nah, It was Bolton for me, in the days of Okocha and Campo. For some reason I enjoyed watching them play over any other team. They were actually my first (and only) "love" in the EPL. Too bad they got rid of all the players I liked...

[stevie_G_32201]

i remeber jay jay okocha i liked him

[Amaroq]

Yeah, I think it was his style that first put me in support of the Super Eagles.

[stevie_G_32201]

i also admired thierry henry's style.

[DougyMarshall]

Trevor,

If you're an Arse supporter, wait to see a game against Spuds for a real good punchup. One of the classic derbies in british football that is

Travis

Ahhh but if we are talking pure unadulterated atmosphere then behold....

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=llttT4chpII

[Sweed]

I' a Scot living in the US and for the first time will wait the extra few days for the WWSM release.

The sport definitely has a fan base, but most guys much prefer games like FIFA and PES. For most casual fans FM is far too in depth for them. I enjoy playing Madden, but would never be able to understand a "Head Coach" version.

I too don't get the MLS, but then I don't watch it either.

I must add, most (not all) American fans I talk to about football don't seem to really know what they are talking about, they support Chelsea, and the like, for the glory rather than the love of the game. Most never played the sport and don't appreciate that it's a much harder game than it looks on TV, and that there are a lot more tactics to the game than what it might appear to the untrained eye.

The genuine fans appreciate that it can't always be all action with non stop shots on goal and attacking football, they get why a low scoring game is more exciting/entertaining than a game that has multiple scoring in every single game. (you know the sports I'm talking about;))

Anyway, I haven't played much of the demo, I find it impossible to get a real feel for it with only a 6 month in game trial, but I look forward to another great game from SI:thup:

Noting the bolded part..

I never played the game, other than gym class, and thought it was nothing but guys hoofing a ball up and down a big field ending in a boring 1-0 score. I think it would be fair to say that I thought it was a game with little tactics or strategy. I never watched a match on TV, other than for a few moments, until after I started playing FM. After playing FM and having some understanding (probably less than a thimble full compared to those that grew up with the game) and a true interest in football I watched some matches ESPN was showing not even sure what the competition was.

I was amazed at the skill of the players and with what they could do. Henry was playing and the ball was passed to him, then while in full stride he put his foot on top of the ball to flip it to a winger that was cutting in behind him who then proceeded to score. Poetry in motion and my first real look at the beautiful game. It wasn't so much the goal, though that was thrilling, it was more the skill it took to make the pass. Henry made it look so effortless but yet it was one of the most athletic things I think I've ever seen.

Since then I have added the Fox Soccer Channel to my Dish Network and have seen many great games. I used to think basketball players were the greatest athletes and if not them than it had to be hockey. I'm not so sure of that any more. 90 minutes, only 3 subs, continuous clock, and God knows how many miles run over the course of a match. Seems to me a footballer takes a backseat to nobody.

I actually support Liverpool not because of any history the club may have. It's just that I saw them play more than anybody else and really enjoyed watching Torres and Gerrard. Maybe that makes me a bandwagon jumper? But I don't care. Hey, I'm a Chicago Cubs fan and we haven't won anything in a hundred years Oh, and like a 1-0 pitchers duel in baseball I also enjoy a 1-nil football game.

As for the average American around me they simply don't care.

[atcdelay]

As an American growing up in western Pennsylvania (Steeler country) in the 70's and 80's, I naturally played baseball and 'American' football. Only the largest schools had soccer programs, and the guys who played it were basically stereotyped as gay. Moving into adult life, as an athlete and sports fan, I gravitated toward playing American sports simulations produced by various companies. Now I'm married with a soon to be eight year old son and have found that soccer and to a lesser extent lacrosse are the sports which are the source of the most innovative youth athletic programs where I live (SW Virginia). Being a good parent and all with an eye to the future, last year I begrudgingly enrolled my son in the soccer program, deep down wishing he would play the sports I played, and wondering whether he would turn out gay (well, not really). I must say at first my enthusiasm watching him play was a little tepid, since I couldn't relate to what was going on. But I eventually started to develop an appreciation for what the world calls 'the beautiful game' and that appreciation spawned a desire to expand my sports gaming hobby to soccer. Having played sports sims for a number of years, I was always aware of the respect Championship Manager had in the business, although I was unaware that the 'guts' of that game is now Football Manager (WWSM). After downloading and playing WWSM 08, my views of what a sports sim should be and of soccer itself have been changed to the revolutionary good. There are no sports sims IMO which come close to what SI has done, and soccer is now the preeminent sport in my son and I's life. Even my wife and daughter think soccer is 'cool'. I coach the 2007 MLS Columbus Crew in WWSM, learning more and more about soccer as the season goes by, and alas, our favorite real-life team is the 2008 Columbus Crew. (BTW, Schelotto has aged way too early in my 2007 WWSM game!)

I would think my typical American experience would bode well for SI in the future, as more and more American boys play soccer, with their fathers needing both a teaching and motivating tool with which to match and even further their sons' soccer passion.

[Don Lebanon]

Hey atcdelay, wanna really open your mind up about the game and see truly how great it is, wake up saturday morning and watch any football games (soccer matches) that has to do with the premier league (make sure you dont watch MLS) that are on. Its truly a difficult game and requires alot of skill and the more you play FM and the more you watch european football matches, the more you will learn and know about the game from all different aspects. Also wanted to add that you are right in the aspect that some people portray the sport here as "gay" and that is mainly because they know nothing about it and never bothered to learn anything either, but honestly, there is nothing "gay" about the sport since its technically and physically difficult as any other sports, its just that here on our side of the world people are not the brightest or the most open minded to things if i must say.

[ndebergerac]

1. Don't know enough about the spot to have a club that they support, couldn't care less, and, as is typical of sports fans, tend to put down games which they don't understand.

2. Know the sport, played the sport, and follow internationals; may or may not have a club, club is often one of the big clubs (not for glory, but because it was the first they were exposed to) but may be somewhere outside of the top flight, usually for an obscure reason.

3. Played the sport as a youth and understand the basics, but have not been exposed to it at the highest levels.

4. Emigrated from somewhere which lives and breathes football, played the sport, and supports their ancestral club.

Your description of someone who didn't play the game, doesn't know what he's talking about, but knows enough to support Chelsea "for the glory" just .. :confused: .. doesn't match my experiences.

Fair enough, I can only base my opinions on what I over-hear and discuss with American fans in the bar where I watch my soccer(may I call it football?). I'm certain 80% of them know no player out-with their own team, apart from the Ronaldo's etc, and have no concept of how the game is played and how difficult it is, it can be very frustrating talking to these guys sometimes. 3 are okay, but 2 and 4 are the majority where I watch and the conversation is often bizarre to say the least, the hardcore v's the "thinks they're hardcore". It's almost like 1 educating the other, which is no bad thing.

Just my experience, in general.

My best friend over here, however,falls into # 2. He's New Jersey born and bread, never been to Italy, doesn't have Italian origins, but supports Juventus because he loves Del Piero. He couldn't care less about the US national side.

I don't think he has ever kicked a ball, but he is good at FIFA, maybe I'll challenge him to a couple of seasons at WWSM, I don't think he'll be interested though:mad:

[looknohands]

I'll never forget the King of the Hill episode where Bobby joins the soccer team and, after a tie, the coach shouts to his players, "Tie game, everybody wins!"

Sigh, that about sums up the majority of Americans' attitude towards the game.

[Atredes71]

King of the Hill is set in Texas not America. Note my location and bias.

[Amaroq]

Fair enough, I can only base my opinions on what I over-hear and discuss with American fans in the bar where I watch my soccer(may I call it football?). I'm certain 80% of them know no player out-with their own team, apart from the Ronaldo's etc, and have no concept of how the game is played and how difficult it is, it can be very frustrating talking to these guys sometimes. 3 are okay, but 2 and 4 are the majority where I watch and the conversation is often bizarre to say the least, the hardcore v's the "thinks they're hardcore". It's almost like 1 educating the other, which is no bad thing.

Just my experience, in general.

We'd better call it football. Using "soccer" without quotes tends to start a flame-war on this forum.

I was thinking about this a bit further, and I think its just going to depend how far along the learning curve the #2 is.

I started following the international game back in about 1996, primarily focused on the U.S. national team at first, and grew to an appreciation of the club game through CM01/02 and watching the 2001 Champions League final at a pub in France. In those first five or six years, any conversation I had at a bar was a learning process; nowadays, I can converse comfortably with just about anyone. Thinking through my other footie friends, one has made that transition, but the other two primarily follow the international game and would be hard-pressed to talk about the club game.