ajw10 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 This has got to be the biggest load of nonsense in the game. It's broken and illogical in its current state. Half of the stuff doesn't even mean anything. 'Listened passionately' is my favourite. HOW CAN YOU LISTEN PASSIONATELY? Is it a positive or negative? What effect does it have? 'deep in thought' is another. I always think this is a negative but I'm not sure. This is the issue really, apart from the obvious ones there are too many ambiguous body language reactions. The thing that really gets me is the 'nervous' one. There seems to be no logic or reason behind this at all. Sometimes a few of my players get nervous when 2-0 up at home against Norwich other times it's at 0-0 away to a big club. Players like Sagna are nearly always nervous regardless of scoreline or performance. I can understand that there may be players who suffer from nerves but I'm pretty sure Sagna has never been nervous in his life! It was a nice idea but I can't for the life of me so what it adds to the game. In fact I think it detracts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 This has got to be the biggest load of nonsense in the game. It's broken and illogical in its current state. Half of the stuff doesn't even mean anything. Don't be daft. There's plenty of logic behind what happens to players and how it affects their mental state. It's illogical to you, but not everyone feels the same way. IRL you can't 100% judge how players are taking your "speech" either. The team talk feedback screen after a match is invaluable to gauge how your players felt at the time. Use the team talk feedback screen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajw10 Posted May 7, 2014 Author Share Posted May 7, 2014 I do and it still doesn't make a lot of sense. Plus you've only looked at the first paragraph and not the rest of it. I've been coached irl for.... 3 years I think? Maybe 4 and I've never seen anyone "listen passionately". Mesut Ozil has gone from "very confident" to "very nervous" in the space of about 10 seconds. Eh? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 I do and it still doesn't make a lot of sense. Plus you've only looked at the first paragraph and not the rest of it. I read it. You don't pay attention to your players. Listened keenly and listened passionately are fairly neutral. I like those reactions because they're obviously listening to what you say and are taking it on-board, but not so much so that it affects/changes their mindset a lot. There's reason why Ozil's mindset changed, but I can't guess because you don't provide any more info. Pay attention to what happens in the game (if it happens in the middle of a match) for them to get nervous. If it's directly after a team talk, which is unlikely for a player to have that big of a mindset change, what did you say to him? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eple Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Players being nervous is often (not always) down to pressure or his inability to handle pressure, i.e. after a team talk where you demand something or you've been critical of the teams chances in the build up, the opposition just got a goal, the player is suffering a goal drought or you're in in the last few matches of a title chase, etc. I think it also may be tied to bravery, and the opposition targeting that player with hard tackles, although not so sure about that one. The game has given you lots of tools to figure out what type of person your players are, and it doesn't take much to make sense out of it. 'Listening passionately' I've seen in the team talk feedback being linked to a loyalty towards the club. So, if you do a team talk along the lines of 'for the fans' and you have players who have been at the club for a while and/or have it listed as a favored club, you might see that reaction. Edit: Also, I don't think you're meant to take the reaction literally. It's not like you spend 15 minutes saying one sentence and the room is all quiet while you spell it out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 It's one of those fluffy things that bugs gamers who like to "beat" games. Because there's no direct logic that guarantees 100% to "fix" it. I do think the game communicates it badly though, along with several other of the wording choices for fluffier parts of the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 It's one of those fluffy things that bugs gamers who like to "beat" games. Because there's no direct logic that guarantees 100% to "fix" it.I do think the game communicates it badly though, along with several other of the wording choices for fluffier parts of the game. I don't like that the two pieces of assistant manager feedback are badly placed though. Outside the match you have to long-windedly find your assistant manager and click on his report page (it should just be on your team page) and the in game match has been moved from before the match (to tell you who is looking over confident and thus adjust your team talk) to appearing after kick off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajw10 Posted May 7, 2014 Author Share Posted May 7, 2014 I read it. You don't pay attention to your players. Listened keenly and listened passionately are fairly neutral. I like those reactions because they're obviously listening to what you say and are taking it on-board, but not so much so that it affects/changes their mindset a lot.There's reason why Ozil's mindset changed, but I can't guess because you don't provide any more info. Pay attention to what happens in the game (if it happens in the middle of a match) for them to get nervous. If it's directly after a team talk, which is unlikely for a player to have that big of a mindset change, what did you say to him? The reason why I didn't provide more info was because nothing happened. Ozil was very motivated, we were in possession and all of a sudden he turned into a nervous wreck. I DO pay attention to what happens during the game, that's what's frustrating because a lot of their reactions seem completely random. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 The reason why I didn't provide more info was because nothing happened. Ozil was very motivated, we were in possession and all of a sudden he turned into a nervous wreck.I DO pay attention to what happens during the game, that's what's frustrating because a lot of their reactions seem completely random. Why are you changing your story now? You said he was "very confident" before. Now you're saying he was "very motivated"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 It's one of those fluffy things that bugs gamers who like to "beat" games. Because there's no direct logic that guarantees 100% to "fix" it. This really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajw10 Posted May 7, 2014 Author Share Posted May 7, 2014 Why are you changing your story now? You said he was "very confident" before. Now you're saying he was "very motivated"? Sorry I did mean "very confident" just made a mistake with that last post. No change of story at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajw10 Posted May 7, 2014 Author Share Posted May 7, 2014 This really. Not really. It's something that is flawed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Sorry I did mean "very confident" just made a mistake with that last post. No change of story at all. Very confident borders on Complacent. Wwfan gave us a nice quote yesterday. From Merriam Webster, the US publishing dictionary of choice: complacent - marked by self-satisfaction especially when accompanied by unawareness of actual dangers or deficiencies Something must have happened on the pitch for him to become "aware" and it turned him into a nervous wreck. Again, I have no idea what, because you've given no information about what happened on the pitch or the score and context of the match. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 If there are semantic arguments going on, the game isn't doing the job correctly. Unless intentional ambiguity is the aim. (to somewhat mirror "real life") Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajw10 Posted May 7, 2014 Author Share Posted May 7, 2014 Very confident borders on Complacent. Wwfan gave us a nice quote yesterday.Something must have happened on the pitch for him to become "aware" and it turned him into a nervous wreck. Again, I have no idea what, because you've given no information about what happened on the pitch or the score and context of the match. I was 3-0 up at home against a team I should be comfortably beating. It was was midway through the second half. We had possession (not Ozil) and all of a sudden he turns nervous. It makes no sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 If there are semantic arguments going on, the game isn't doing the job correctly.Unless intentional ambiguity is the aim. (to somewhat mirror "real life") Can you really tell exactly how a person is thinking purely on body language? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 I was 3-0 up at home against a team I should be comfortably beating. It was was midway through the second half. We had possession (not Ozil) and all of a sudden he turns nervous. It makes no sense. I can only tell you that (I think) it had to do with Mesut getting complacent. If you feel it's a bug, upload your pkm and post in the bugs forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajw10 Posted May 7, 2014 Author Share Posted May 7, 2014 If he was getting complacent then surely it would say so? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 If he was getting complacent then surely it would say so? He was already very confident, which borders complacency so you had warning already. Players don't go from being very confident to useless and complacent. There's an element of complacency (imo, anyway) in being very confident already. He could have gone straight from Very Confident to Nervous because of something that affected him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eple Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Like a hard tackle, missing a great chance or making a mistake. Or maybe a fan shouted something like "GET A PROPER HAIRCUT LADYBOY!" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 There's an element of complacency (imo, anyway) in being very confident already. The "imo" is the issue. A team full of confidence is good, you should not be worried until that confidence changes in to complacency, but at the point of it being confident, there should be no issue at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 The "imo" is the issue.A team full of confidence is good, you should not be worried until that confidence changes in to complacency, but at the point of it being confident, there should be no issue at all. I'm worried when my players reach very confident. If they're complacent, it's too late to start worrying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Then the ambiguity of those phrases can understandably cause gamer issues. As I said, we're arguing semantics - and that's either by design or is poor game development. It's a big part of the reason I don't play the later FM versions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Then the ambiguity of those phrases can understandably cause gamer issues.As I said, we're arguing semantics - and that's either by design or is poor game development. It's a big part of the reason I don't play the later FM versions. How is it ambiguous? My first language isn't English and I have no problem with it. You can see the effects in-game too if you don't understand the definitions. Be 3-0 up at half-time with a team of "Confident" and "Very Confident" players. Praise them. 2nd half they'll run out as "Very Confident" and "Looking Complacent". Confidence is good. Too much and you get complacent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Which is wrong. In so many ways. It's the comical (and long running) joke about saying "pleased" at half time instantly resulting in your team being trounced in the second half. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eple Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Hunt3r is spot on I think. I.e. Liverpool's last match if you saw that. They were up 3-0, clearly confident but I'd argue complacent too as they wasted a few easy chances and were leaving huge gaps behind. Then Bolasie started his show, the 1st goal went in and the crowd went nuts. It's a good example of confidence and complacency and events making the players nervous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Which is wrong. In so many ways.It's the comical (and long running) joke about saying "pleased" at half time instantly resulting in your team being trounced in the second half. Because people are idiots. I regularly praise my players, if it's deserved or required, at half-time. It depends on their current mental state though. If they're "looking composed" "looking motivated" etc then praise them if they deserve it! If they're already very confident, why the hell would you praise them more? People getting trounced in the second half, are not getting trounced because they said the wrong thing. Even if I have a complacent player or two on the pitch, as soon as a goal is scored against us, they snap out of it very quickly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbokav1971 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Everyone thinks that lots of green must be very good and any red at all is bad. I love a bit of red on mine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Hunt3r is spot on I think.I.e. Liverpool's last match if you saw that. They were up 3-0, clearly confident but I'd argue complacent too as they wasted a few easy chances and were leaving huge gaps behind. Then Bolasie started his show, the 1st goal went in and the crowd went nuts. It's a good example of confidence and complacency and events making the players nervous. Brendan Rodgers didn't help either. Should have changed tactics to kill the game at 3-1. Hell, could've done that at 3-0 too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Praising a confident person rarely results in complacency in real life. It sustains their confidence, it doesn't make them suddenly turn in to useless baffoons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Praising a confident person rarely results in complacency in real life. It sustains their confidence, it doesn't make them suddenly turn in to useless baffoons. Praising an over-confident person does. They'll make basic mistakes in-game, mis-placing passes etc, but they won't become "useless". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Very confident isn't over confident, it's very confident. Very does not go to over when you praise people. And over doesn't lead to mistakes. It's a terrible game mechanic. It's not fun from a gamers perspective and it doesn't reflect real life from a realism point of view. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 It's a terrible game mechanic. It's not fun from a gamers perspective and it doesn't reflect real life from a realism point of view. Fortunately FMC is available and cuts the need to use that terrible game mechanic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Fortunately FMC is available and cuts the need to use that terrible game mechanic. Or even better, not playing the game at all. Like I do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbokav1971 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Or even better, not playing the game at all. Like I do. If you don't play the game, then why do you feel the need to post about it? :confused: Are you just really bored? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aderow Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 If you don't play the game, then why do you feel the need to post about it? :confused:Are you just really bored? I didn't want to say it Tbh, I'm leaning towards what HUNT3R is saying. Though I do think that the way players react at times can be farfetched. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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