4-3-3 Possession Based (Barca / Bayern)

[robterrace]

I think I broke something..

[nigelmartin]

I guess you can't expect teams like West Ham or Norwich to play like a Pep's Barcelona or Bayern.

... unless you are playing against any other weaker teams :-)

[nigelmartin]

Still using the same version, 3 in the middle. Stopper DC behind the AP and Cover DC behind the DLP. I sometimes change the False 9 to a Treq which seems to work well. I occasionally change to standard mentality against stronger opposition. I have my assistant applying opposition instructions.

Apart from that, it's all the same.

I use a False 9 but with instructions shoot less and hold the ball, it really improves his performance.

[Harryseaess]

I use a False 9 but with instructions shoot less and hold the ball, it really improves his performance.

Will give that a try tomorrow when I'm back on FM.

[petergoddard]

False 9 is awkward, almost every ball he gets, kazam, there goes a shot to space. I guess holding the ball will have some improvement.

[Wooh!]

I'm not sure about the false nine.

I'm also not sure about not having anyone on an attack setting. It seems to me at the very least you need the inside forwards on attack to get your goals.

[Harryseaess]

I'm not sure about the false nine.

I'm also not sure about not having anyone on an attack setting. It seems to me at the very least you need the inside forwards on attack to get your goals.

The IF's are useful on support because it means they are available more for passes from the midfield, therefore resulting in your team keeping possession. I've had varied results, sometimes I go on runs where I score 2/3/4 a game, other times I struggle to score 1.

I seem to be picking up quite a lot of red cards, mostly my midfielders getting sent off for two footed lunges, I also get a lot of yellow cards. I think this is due to 'hassle opponents' being selected, so I'm going to deselect that and see if it reduces the number of cards.

[vulin]

Harryseaess why dont you upload your version of this tactic?...sounds much better than original...

[petergoddard]

The IF's are useful on support because it means they are available more for passes from the midfield, therefore resulting in your team keeping possession. I've had varied results, sometimes I go on runs where I score 2/3/4 a game, other times I struggle to score 1.

I seem to be picking up quite a lot of red cards, mostly my midfielders getting sent off for two footed lunges, I also get a lot of yellow cards. I think this is due to 'hassle opponents' being selected, so I'm going to deselect that and see if it reduces the number of cards.

How is your tacking ? more agressive ?

[Harryseaess]

Harryseaess why dont you upload your version of this tactic?...sounds much better than original...

I will do when I'm on FM again. Not really sure how to do it though?

How is your tacking ? more agressive ?

I've changed nothing on the tackling front, it's just normal. I think it's to do with when a player is set to tight mark and has high aggression that they get sent off easily, so I would recommend players with lower aggression.

[Lord Rowell]

I think one problem with the ME at the moment is that players don't close down enough. This is likely to mean that, if you're a possession-based team that likes to press the ball, your pressing isn't likely to be as effective as it might be. Hence, AI teams, when they do get the ball, are likely to keep it for longer with the result that its going to be hard, even if you're a top side with top players, to get really high possession stats of the level that Barcelona have achieved IRL.

Right now, if you're getting 60% + I think you're probably doing really well.

This may change of course once the latest patch / update is released as Paul C has said that one of the fixes is to improve player engagement with the ball.

[Wooh!]

Change the Advanced Playmaker to attack, change to fluidity to balanced. Don't think I changed anything else, but shots have turned into goals, possession is still there.

[vulin]

I'm not sure. might be able to write each individual position, training, playing away...etc.

[Auqakuh]

I'm not sure about the false nine.

I'm also not sure about not having anyone on an attack setting. It seems to me at the very least you need the inside forwards on attack to get your goals.

Untrue. I have a tactic with 6 players set defensive and 5 set to support and the team scores 2+ goals per game and concedes 1 goal every 8 games.

[eple]

I've been trying out my own modified version of this and it's going extremely well.

Basically I've moved the IFs into striker position so it's a true flat 433. I might have changed some instructions as well and I'm still experimenting with the striker roles.. it seems to be somewhat game dependent what works and what doesn't. At first I tried it at home against the lesser sides, but recently I've tried it against team such as Real Madrid and Chelsea. Two teams I've struggled to beat with my 442.

Some stats

http://i.imgur.com/RJWWoEL.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/axbfOCf.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/MFlmtTR.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/nBN90hr.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/z7EHFC2.jpg[

http://i.imgur.com/13KsE3F.jpg

Tactic and instructions:

http://i.imgur.com/O3B5Tbl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Irz86UQ.jpg

Player instruction

GK: Pass it Shorter, Distribute to defenders

CBs: Pass it Shorter, Mark tighter, Tackle hard

BWM: Mark Tighter

DLP & AP: Pass it Shorter, Mark tighter, Tackle hard, Close Down More

F9: Hold up ball, Shoot less often

I've often change the F9 to target man support and complete forward support. It depends who I have there. The left AF I also change to CF-s if the opposition is playing a deep d-line. Against Real Madrid and Chelsea I left it as AF and that worked really well.

Overall I'm amazed at who good rating every player gets with this tactic. Fullbacks frequently get 9+, and the midfielder often have 100+ completed passes. Usually I'm around 65%. The best thing about it is that the opposition hardly ever manages to get into my half, and only teams like RM and Chelsea have managed to get more than a couple of shots in. My only gripe with it is that the opposition box gets very clogged and against the wrong tactic the strikers struggle to finish chances at all. I haven't tried it out enough to see a clear pattern but it seems to do really well against the 4231.

[petergoddard]

I've been trying out my own modified version of this and it's going extremely well.

Basically I've moved the IFs into striker position so it's a true flat 433. I might have changed some instructions as well and I'm still experimenting with the striker roles.. it seems to be somewhat game dependent what works and what doesn't. At first I tried it at home against the lesser sides, but recently I've tried it against team such as Real Madrid and Chelsea. Two teams I've struggled to beat with my 442.

Some stats

Player instruction

GK: Pass it Shorter, Distribute to defenders

CBs: Pass it Shorter, Mark tighter, Tackle hard

BWM: Mark Tighter

DLP & AP: Pass it Shorter, Mark tighter, Tackle hard, Close Down More

F9: Hold up ball, Shoot less often

I've often change the F9 to target man support and complete forward support. It depends who I have there. The left AF I also change to CF-s if the opposition is playing a deep d-line. Against Real Madrid and Chelsea I left it as AF and that worked really well.

Overall I'm amazed at who good rating every player gets with this tactic. Fullbacks frequently get 9+, and the midfielder often have 100+ completed passes. Usually I'm around 65%. The best thing about it is that the opposition hardly ever manages to get into my half, and only teams like RM and Chelsea have managed to get more than a couple of shots in. My only gripe with it is that the opposition box gets very clogged and against the wrong tactic the strikers struggle to finish chances at all. I haven't tried it out enough to see a clear pattern but it seems to do really well against the 4231.

No move into channels instruction to F9 / CF / Target Man ?

[eple]

Haven't tried that. Doesn't really make sense to use that if I have two AFs there as they would be occupying that space, or am I wrong? I usually have a CF-s there now. Seems to work best.

I've experimented with roam from position on CF, which so far seems to cause all kinds of trouble. The central striker creates space for the two AFs and gets a few goals as he gets on the end of passes from the byline or intercepts the ball after blocked shots.

[jean.lamy84]

Haven't tried that. Doesn't really make sense to use that if I have two AFs there as they would be occupying that space, or am I wrong? I usually have a CF-s there now. Seems to work best.

I've experimented with roam from position on CF, which so far seems to cause all kinds of trouble. The central striker creates space for the two AFs and gets a few goals as he gets on the end of passes from the byline or intercepts the ball after blocked shots.

It seems that you have not set any individual instructions on your 2 advanced forward. Is it right?

I'm playing with Barcelona and came to the same decision because I'm not happy with the 2 IF. So I'm trying to set the same 4-3-3 as your.

My idea was to leave Messi without no Individual instructions and find a way to make my advanced forward complete him.

Maybe by setting "Move into channels".

Maybe also by using "Move wide with ball" to my right AF (usually Pedro or Delofeu, more wingers than IF).

[eple]

Oh, I see. I misunderstood. I don't have any instructions on the AF, but I'll try that in a couple of games. I have more typical poacher strikers there though, so the idea was that the AFs move into the space the CF/F9 creates when dropping deep. It would make sense to have them move into channels/run wide if I use a target man in the center.

[jean.lamy84]

Oh, I see. I misunderstood. I don't have any instructions on the AF, but I'll try that in a couple of games. I have more typical poacher strikers there though, so the idea was that the AFs move into the space the CF/F9 creates when dropping deep. It would make sense to have them move into channels/run wide if I use a target man in the center.

You're right. My attaking line is more F9 (Messi) with 2 quick AF. I need to find the good settings for this attacking line.

[WayneRomney]

Having tried this (the tactic the OP tweaked) with Southampton for 4 seasons, my experiences vary a great deal.

Season 1 this was a fantastic tactic. Only suspensions/injuries prevented me from making the CL cut, in the end I ended up number 5 in the leage.

Season 2 was a complete disaster. Started off very bad, but we managed to pull ourselves together in March and April, finishing 7th in May.

Note that between seasons we improved the squad greatly, in all positions. This doesn't help much in the end, when the AI figures out your tactic/or the ME makes it difficult for you. Typical matches would be Soton-Norwich 0-1, where I had 68% possession and 15 finishes on target, they will have 3 or 4. This happens a lot over the course of the game. I would add screens, but I'm on another laptop now.

Season 3 I tweaked it a little bit. I removed "Shorter Passing", just to change things up. It worked to some extent and we managed to get back in the Europa League through a 6th place finish. Still dominating games heavily and giving away points.

Season 4 was again a disaster, relative to the overal quality of the squad. I'm two rounds away from finishing the season, lying in 8th place.

To sum it up (again, my experiences):

Strengths

Great tactic for possession and attacking (in that regard it will fulfill demanding board demands).

Involves all attacking players. You will get goals from wingers and AMCs. Ince had 20 goals for me in season 2 for instance from his AMR position.

The Advanced Forward is very dangerous. Constantly involved in play and always getting chances to score.

Weaknesses:

Wingbacks completely off the reservation. Even the good ones, like Clyne and Shaw. Constantly out of position and are often blamed when we are conceding from crosses.

Central midfield doesn't work that good. BMW and BBM are very rarely above 6,8-6,9 in rating. I haven't found any formula here that works, that why I left it like that.

Concedes a lot of goals, despite its possession. This however is very much down to the ME I suspect. Opposition teams needs very chances to score, while you very often need 30 chances to win the game. It really is a tactic that reveals the weaknesses of the FM ME.

That sums it up for me. I will still use this as a template for further gaming, I just have to do the right tweaks in relation to the given squad. Still a great effort by the OP, I just have my suspicions regarding the ME. And also, this is probably a great tactic for superior teams.

[ValarGr]

Trying to apply that strategy of yours in my A.C. Milan game. Two little problems though.

I am feeling that Kaka is losing much of his ability in the mc position, instead of the amc one.

I am having Montolivo as DLP, De Jong as BWM and Kaka as Adv. Pl. in a flat 3 man midfield.

Can that work for Milan or should I go for Box to Box Montolivo?

Good post.

[burgalveist]

Just a thought with the initial Bayern tactic, I think team coherency and options on the ball maybe the biggest issue with just increasing the percentage a little.

Also for WHU, the lowering of player quality to me would be more a reason for the lack of coherency and options for it the fail.

My theory is its all about initial starting positions dictated by a combination of team mentality and player duty (defend/support/attack). My idea is that the initial position for a defender is defend, you change that to cover he drops closer to the sweeper line, stopper closer to DM line. And so on for every position in the team, their initial mentality for that position (midfield is support, striker is attack ) and by choosing attacking options or defensive options you bring them closer to a different line.

Your tactic in starting positions to me looks like this…

Sweeper line-----------Cover

Defensive line------ DM

DM line----------------Stopper

Mid Line --------------CWB-DLP-AP-CWB

AM Line -----------------F9

ST Line-----------------IF-IF

I think your Full backs are too far forward to receive simple passes and the guy closest to your centre midfield to give them the ball might be your worst passer (being stereotypical about stopper players).

Two options pull your CWB back to support and they offer a better out ball for defensive players playing a short game or move the deep playmaker back into a DM support role therefore he will get on the ball earlier for your team and keep possession and also improve the quality of player you are getting on the ball in that area.

[Jonny2J]

Very interesting thread I must admit.

To try and make things as life-like as you possibly can if you will - what role would you say Muller plays when he's on the right?

[SJ234]

Inside forward without the dribbling.

[Harryseaess]

This is really not working for me anymore, I still have a lot of possession but I'm struggling to win games.

[karangooner1]

Is there anyway to make the inside forward to move in the channels(its surprisingly cannot be selected for some reason for IF's). Pedro,Muller,Sanchez,Walcott. There is always one wide outlets in the teams preaching the possession game to run in behind i am just not able to re create something like that on this.

[ocy]

I'm playing 5 playermakers in the middle of the field

AP AP

DLP

DLP DLP

My DLPs are attempting as many as 170+ passes in a single game.

[Harryseaess]

I'm playing 5 playermakers in the middle of the field

AP AP

DLP

DLP DLP

My DLPs are attempting as many as 170+ passes in a single game.

In what formation are you playing these? In a flat 5?

[SJ234]

Is there anyway to make the inside forward to move in the channels(its surprisingly cannot be selected for some reason for IF's). Pedro,Muller,Sanchez,Walcott. There is always one wide outlets in the teams preaching the possession game to run in behind i am just not able to re create something like that on this.

They can't move into the channels because they start there

[ocy]

In what formation are you playing these? In a flat 5?

..........T...........

.....AP.......AP

.........DLP........

WB.DLP.DLP.WB

.......CD..CD.....

.........SKP........

For corners, I play it short, so that I can continue having possesion.

The downside, not much goals scored. However, seeing the midfield controlling and

Passing around is more than worth it.

[freakinutjob]

IMPLEMENTING 4-1-4-1 by a Successful Manager!

I like my teams to keep evolving tactically. Having been there done it all using a 4-2-3-1 for 5 seasons playing a low tempo possession based game, i decided to raise the tempo of my game. The idea came to me after a Round of 16 eliminationin my fifth season in the champions league at the hands of a Juventus side playing the Conte formation. It was a real kick in the teeth for me, having reached the finals in my first three seasons and winning two of them. Even a QF exit to Real Madrid in season 4 i considered a mere aberration. However, having won the league title 5 seasons in a row, I didnt want to stagnate in Europe and decided, I need to up my game. Thus playing a 4-2-3-1 with a high tempo game with an emphasis on retaining possession, won the European Cup beating Juventus and Barca on the way, and also completed the treble. That was my 22nd trophy in just 6 seasons with United.

However now I have decided to implement a 4-1-4-1 formation primarily for my seventh season

This is how i employ it

GK: Goalkeeper Defend

RB: Complete Wing Back Attack

CB: Central Defender Cover

CB: Ball Playing Defender Cover

LB: Complete Wing Back Attack

DM: Regista Support

RM: Winger Attack

CM: Deep Lying Playmaker Support

CM: Advanced Playmaker Attack

LM: Winger Attack

ST: Advanced Forward Attack

Team Instructions:

Retain Possession

Shorter Passing

Pass Into Space

Work Ball into Box

Play Out of Defence

Push Higher Up

Hassle Opponents

Lower Tempo

Be More Expressive

Play Wider

Player Instructions:

Goalkeeper: Distribute to defenders

Both Wingbacks: Close down More

Wingers: Get Further Forward

[henkheikens]

IMPLEMENTING 4-1-4-1 by a Successful Manager!

I like my teams to keep evolving tactically. Having been there done it all using a 4-2-3-1 for 5 seasons playing a low tempo possession based game, i decided to raise the tempo of my game. The idea came to me after a Round of 16 eliminationin my fifth season in the champions league at the hands of a Juventus side playing the Conte formation. It was a real kick in the teeth for me, having reached the finals in my first three seasons and winning two of them. Even a QF exit to Real Madrid in season 4 i considered a mere aberration. However, having won the league title 5 seasons in a row, I didnt want to stagnate in Europe and decided, I need to up my game. Thus playing a 4-2-3-1 with a high tempo game with an emphasis on retaining possession, won the European Cup beating Juventus and Barca on the way, and also completed the treble. That was my 22nd trophy in just 6 seasons with United.

However now I have decided to implement a 4-1-4-1 formation primarily for my seventh season

This is how i employ it

GK: Goalkeeper Defend

RB: Complete Wing Back Attack

CB: Central Defender Cover

CB: Ball Playing Defender Cover

LB: Complete Wing Back Attack

DM: Regista Support

RM: Winger Attack

CM: Deep Lying Playmaker Support

CM: Advanced Playmaker Attack

LM: Winger Attack

ST: Advanced Forward Attack

Team Instructions:

Retain Possession

Shorter Passing

Pass Into Space

Work Ball into Box

Play Out of Defence

Push Higher Up

Hassle Opponents

Lower Tempo

Be More Expressive

Play Wider

Player Instructions:

Goalkeeper: Distribute to defenders

Both Wingbacks: Close down More

Wingers: Get Further Forward

what about mentality en fluid?