4-1-2-1-2 - Narrow Diamond Formation

[ajsr1982]

This is a formation I kind of stumbled upon when trying to find the best fit for the players I have available, but it's working very nicely indeed for me at the moment.

I'm playing as Silkeborg IF in the Danish second tier, and I am one of the more fancied teams in the division. I have reached the winter break lying comfortably top of the pile though. What's interesting here is that on the face of things, this appears to be a very attacking formation, yet I have the best defence in the division by some distance.

So here's the set up.

CWB-A DC-D DC-D FB-A

HB-D

DLP-S CM-S

AM-A

DLF-S AF-A

In terms of the general shape of the team, the thing I love about this formation is that when the full backs bomb forward, the HB drops in between the CBs to make it almost like a 3-4-1-2 formation. In an attacking sense, because the FB/CWB are moving from deep, they tend to get loads of space. Both the full backs are rated in the top four players in the division in terms of average rating.

A few notes on some of the positions:

CWB/FB - Both on an attack duty, but because I've placed them in the back four, they push forward late which means they have plenty of space in front of them. This works even better against teams that employ a narrow formation as I flood the midfield.

HB - This is the guy that makes it all possible, moving back in to defense when the full backs push forward. What I consider to be important here is that I employ a guy that is comfortable playing at CB as well as DM. He has good attributes for heading, marking, tackling and positioning.

AM - This is the conundrum in this formation. I don't really know what to do with this guy, and he sticks out as my poorest performer. I play him using an AM role, rather than a TQ or an EN, because with two forwards, I want (need) him to contribute defensively, but he doesn't really have the attributes that complement this. Thoughts are welcomed on what to do with him. Generally they're pretty good and will make space intelligently when the ball is within 15 yards of them, but I've seen plenty of instances too where the AM and the DLF are on one another's toes.

Forwards - I've suffered from some wasteful finishing it has to be said, and therefore my goals for column isn't what it might be, so I'll be seeking to tweak this next season.

Shouts, etc...

First things first. I am asking a lot of my players, particularly in midfield and at full back. It's important that these players have good teamwork, work rate and natural fitness (which mine do). I employ a high line too, so my defenders all have a decent amount of pace and positioning.

I use 'shorter passing' as I want to play through midfield, having some good passers of the ball in there. I generally use 'exploit middle' but change this to 'exploit flanks' if the opposition are weak there.

Finally, I use 'play wider'. This is obviously a very narrow formation with the exception of the full backs, and when they're pushed on I'm open to a ball played into that area. With 'play wider' in place though, when my HB drops in, it pushes my CBs a little further out to provide cover. On top of this, my DLP and my CM will often go and close down wide players if the opposition are building a more patient attack.

There we go. So far so good, but if I get promoted as I should from this position, next season will be a much tougher prospect. Any thoughts on how this might be improved? Anything I should watch out for? I'm not an expert at this, so I'm pretty happy to have found a system which (for the moment at least) appears to work nicely. Happy to field questions on this, but don't be mad if I respond with a load of rubbish!

[flere-imsaho]

Great stuff! The HB role is a real eye-opener. I remember years ago people trying to get a DM to do exactly what you have your HB doing, through crazy slider manipulation and whatnot. Great to see it working for you.

[DrizzitD]

The HB did a world of difference, thank you for this!

Been struggling to get this setup to work defensively trying most roles but this have been working great for half a season now

[jujigatame]

Tried the narrow 4-1-2-1-2 with Juve in FM13 and I had a lot of problems with it. Lots of low-scoring draws.

I think quality attacking fullbacks are absolutely necessary to make this work. Not sure if it's just the ME or if this mirrors RL but relying on the front 3 to create goals through the middle was very hit-or-miss.

[ajsr1982]

I haven't tried this out with the very latest ME yet. I suspect it would behave differently.

[ajsr1982]

Thought I'd post a little update here on my progress with the new ME.

First, I made a couple of tweaks to the roles. I have the left back as a WB-A now, and the AM has changed from an attack duty to a support duty. I've also employed a sweeper-keeper.

My shouts, generally speaking, are:

Push up

Play wider

Play offside

Higher tempo

Shorter passing

Stay on feet

Exploit middle - changed to flanks if there is an obvious reason to do so.

In addition, I've changed the strategy to 'Attacking'.

The idea here is to pen the opponents in their half, with a high line utilising the offside trap. My thinking there is that with the current defending issues, the further the game is played from my goal, the better (it's also not a bad general rule either, to be fair).

I started a new save, with the same team (Silkeborg). My first game was a 4-5 friendly defeat, which left me fearing the worst. Since then though, things have picked up. I even managed to go four games on the spin without conceding a goal. (5-0, 2-0, 0-0, 1-0). My most recent result was a 3-0 defeat but I'm hoping that's the exception!

Also, given the issues around full backs, it's worth mentioning that my RB currently has the third highest average rating of all my players (around 7.2) and has picked up a couple of 'PotM' awards. It's also noticeable that my midfield is struggling for average ratings.

Looking at the passing stats, most of my play appears to be channeled through the two CMs, and they both have an excellent out ball to the attacking full backs at almost all times (it's great to watch!). The joker in the pack is still the AM. He appears to see little of the ball, comparitavely, though he is chipping in with goals. I experimented with having him 'Roam from position' but I can't say this made much difference. As stated before, I have him with an 'AM' role, as it seems to offer the most defensively from that position. I don't really want to forsake three players in terms of defensive duties.

[Bryno]

The switch to attacking has helped me wonders. I'm playing as Forest, this formation suits them well. Was getting a lot of bore draws, but following your success I've switched to attacking and my results have been 1-1 (away to Reading), 6-2, 3-1 and 4-2. Conceding is still a slight issue, but scoring a lot more. I also went from balanced to fluid which seems to have helped a huge deal too.

[MShing]

if you havent done so already id change your DLF to something like a TM or a diff role that doesnt drop deeper into your AM's space. By using a TM this will also give your WBs something to aim for when they put those crosses in.

I'd maybe change the AM to AP(s) I prefer to have a playmaker type behind the forwards for that extra creativity. But that is just me and how i'd play it. Depends if you have the right players to make it work of course.

[ajsr1982]

if you havent done so already id change your DLF to something like a TM or a diff role that doesnt drop deeper into your AM's space. By using a TM this will also give your WBs something to aim for when they put those crosses in.

I'd maybe change the AM to AP(s) I prefer to have a playmaker type behind the forwards for that extra creativity. But that is just me and how i'd play it. Depends if you have the right players to make it work of course.

Indeed. I think there's too much overlap between a DLF and an AM. That said, I'm winning games, so I'm loathe to upset the apple cart, so to speak.

[MShing]

As long as your winning I wouldn't change it either. Keep us informed how you get on as I am looking to use this sort of tactic soon once I get the correct players in

[ajsr1982]

Here's a bit of data on how this is working.

First of all, average positions. You can quite clearly see here how the HB drops very deep and the WBs push on.

Here are the match stats. Things for me that stand out are how many crosses the WBs are putting in, as well as how few passes the AM is making.

Finally, here are my LWBs passes, which is to illustrate how well he's pushing forward and contributing in advanced areas.

[Moose-Stuff-For-Money]

I am also trying to piece together a 4-1-2-1-2 Narrow Diamond formation, its one I have always fancied having a crack at but have never been able to work out. That is I think, until now.

I'll Show you my set up and perhaps we can bandy a few ideas about.

so here is my set up;

[/img]

The basic premise is that I want to focus on exploiting the technical prowess I have in the middle whilst using my FB's and to a certain extent my forwards as the wider players. The aims I have for the 'style' are that I want to monopolise possession as much as possible using a short sharp passing game which exploits the space between the lines, having my WB's set to attack makes them very active in getting forward and providing overlaps/wide out ball options.

The other way I get a little more width in my side is using player instructions, my CFs is encouraged to shoot less, move out wide and run wide with ball, I also usually have him man mark the opposing LB (if its a back 4) so when we are out of possession and turn it over he is usually able to recieve the ball and get a chance to run at the LB with a wide open space behind him. The creative key is the DLPd and Enganche duo, both are fantastic at keeping possession ticking over and playing through balls in behind the opposing defence.

Defensivley I had also used a HB originally in the DM position, but found he dropped to deep and left me a man light in midfield which was meaning I was being overrrun by mediocre sides, as an Anchor man he is much more able to sweep up the trouble and still be a productive cog in the midfield machine.

I do have to defend a few crosses as I have no natural protection for my WB to help double up and quash crossing opportunities, butits a willing sacrifice as I find my Diamond 4 are running every game and creating lots and lots of chances.

[ajsr1982]

Interesting Moose. Can I pick your brain on a few things?

First, how is your distribution from the back? I noticed you have Burdisso as a LD. Do you find he gives the ball away a lot?

The reason I use a HB is because my WBs are so advanced when I have the ball, I can be left short at the back. Especially against teams that play two up front. How is the Anchorman in terms of this?

Finally, I wonder if you being a man light in midfield is because you use an EN, who, as I understand it, won't contribute defensively at all. How does he perform on the defensive side? The guy I play in AMC would prefer an EN/TQ role but I don't really want to have three guys with zero defensive responsibility. I haven't experimented with it though.

[EdJames]

DL link to the formation?

[Cleon]

This is the discussion part of the forum and doesn't contain download links. If you read the thread then you can create the tactic because all the settings are listed rather than being lazy

[Moose-Stuff-For-Money]

Interesting Moose. Can I pick your brain on a few things?

First, how is your distribution from the back? I noticed you have Burdisso as a LD. Do you find he gives the ball away a lot?

The reason I use a HB is because my WBs are so advanced when I have the ball, I can be left short at the back. Especially against teams that play two up front. How is the Anchorman in terms of this?

Finally, I wonder if you being a man light in midfield is because you use an EN, who, as I understand it, won't contribute defensively at all. How does he perform on the defensive side? The guy I play in AMC would prefer an EN/TQ role but I don't really want to have three guys with zero defensive responsibility. I haven't experimented with it though.

Actually you would be surprised how little (relitivley) Burdisso is giving it away, he is instructed to play it short anyway, and I am training him out of his ppm's to try through balls, funnily the anchor man plays a big role in defesive retention of the ball as he is moving in front of the back four to find space to recieve the pass. Having my DLP on defend also helps as he drops in to give options. He also gives assistance to my anchorman who has more liscene then a HB to move forward to win back possession and tick the passing over.

I think a pleasent side effect of packing the center of midfield, in terms of playing against 2 strikers, is that they often have to recieve lofted balls from deep/ out wide and my CB are very accomplished in the air so win a lot of those types of passes, and the second ball is often picked up by the sweeping anchorman who in turn gives it to the DLP or B2B midfielders who begin attacks

You are of course correct about the Enganche as he won't perform a defensive shift, for me however thats ok. Riquelme is supposed to be the attacking pivot who links or ends the attacks, his physical qualities aren't suited to running back and forth and trying to hassle opponents, he is a better weapon for my side if he stays in the pocket where he can recive passes and start attacks. I think that a HB and an Enganche player can't work in the same side as it leaves the centre of the field protected by only 2 players who are easily either a) outnumbered or b) drift to far apart to be able to link with one another, so I had to lose one, I chose the HB and its working so far.

[alinp]

I have something similar as one of my Liverpool options, but I've not played for a couple of days, so need to see how the latest updates affect it.

I think is suits LFC's current players very well. Lucas has the potential to be an amazing HB IMO and I would tend to play SG and Hendo as DLP(S) & BBM(S) in the centre with Coutinho as something (poss Tq as he doesn't really contribute defensively, but I need him to come back and collect the ball + have the freedom to move wherever he can inflict the most damage). SAS are both CF's for me (Suarez support, Sturridge attack) although I've tinkered with having Sturridge as AF(A).