Hard-core Mode

[JimbobWWFC]

100% for tougher scouting and longer scouting periods, and surely it is time to have the choice to remove all attribute numbers form the game. You should have to rely on staff, stats, and match performance to analyse a player.

I don't think attributes should ever be completely removed. Managers in real life have the opportunity to see players in training and see their performances/improvements/declines, which FM managers would not have. We should keep attributes but alter things so the value are not exact. Maybe just highlight the attribute name by a different colour (like we see with their values now, but with the names instead) depending on how good they are. Eg dark red for 1-5, light red/orange for 6-10, yellow for 11-15 and yellow/green for 16-20.

[forameuss]

This is always an interesting discussion, and it's something I'd probably imagine SI have talked about before.

I can't see any other way they'll implement this other than a whole new game-mode. That's something I never thought they'd do, but with FMC they've sure proved me wrong, and this mode would technically not be as development heavy as I imagine FMC was. However, this topic has just proved what a minefield different game-modes become. What exactly would the definitive list of features be? I doubt everyone could all come to an agreement. Different people would have different opinions on what a mode like this would entail.

I'll weigh in with my tuppeny's worth though. I played a save with a certain UI tweak that just removed the attributes from the screen so that you physically couldn't view them (unless of course you went into the player search...can't have everything). It was interesting, but as an FM player, I'm nowhere near the level of micromanager, so it didn't really make much difference to me - a lot of the time my assistant picks my team, and I've started using the DoF a lot more. It was an interesting development though.

I would love a version where things were a little more "realistic" in terms of scouting and viewing players (realism is subjective though). Scouts can only really get a good idea of a player by actually watching him, which limits the number of players they can see in the time they have. That would make scouting assignments a lot more important. Report cards would still be available, but unless they're Messi, you're not going to get an overly powerful report back. Just the basics. When it comes to your actual players, I'd put an optional fog of war on that's customisable, going from none to full. If someone wants to not be able to see any attributes, let them. That's really how it would work in the real world anyway.

I think scouting is really where you could make some big developments in making the game harder, when combined with a more fleshed out fog of war. Make it harder for a manager to get a full set of attributes, and the game automatically becomes harder. The player search can be like a cheat code at times with the right filters.

[Svenc]

* Turning off the search option and Player/Staff Search tools

* More extensive attribute masking

* Scout report cards only including facts and statistics, not an actual evaluation

* Scouts must see an actual match with a player to "unlock" 15> and <6 attributes

* More matches needed to unlock the rest of the attributes, depending on scout skill

* More childish (i.e realistic) players complaining about stuff. More tabloid media. More hysterical fans.

I'd take all of these. Considering that SI are in talks and correspondence with real-life footballing people (some head-researcher are scouts at the highest level full stop), I've always been wondering why scouting in particular is this simplistic on FM. I think even Champ Man 2010 wasn't this simple as to provide you with a 100% accurate set of data just by the click of a mouse and a couple of hours in-game time. SI's solution is still better if extensive scouting requires you to do too much micro-management in the process, i.e. sending a scout multiple times and have a look at the same player (sometimes necessary as it is on FM). But in particular for lesser known players scouting should take some time, and players should consider who to scout depending on their resources and staff, rather than clicking "player search", marking like 200 players at random (or filter) all at once, and waiting for the reports and scouts coming in within a couple of days in-game time. Reports that tell you everything from the player's favorite food and music on tops.

I think there have been a couple of user made skins that hid attributes altogether (scouted players and current squad), but going that extreme is probably not yet quite viable.

[martinji]

I don't think attributes should ever be completely removed. Managers in real life have the opportunity to see players in training and see their performances/improvements/declines, which FM managers would not have. We should keep attributes but alter things so the value are not exact. Maybe just highlight the attribute name by a different colour (like we see with their values now, but with the names instead) depending on how good they are. Eg dark red for 1-5, light red/orange for 6-10, yellow for 11-15 and yellow/green for 16-20.

The first half of this is what I was going to say. The attributes are our proxy for what our opinions would be if we had the real life experience of managing that player. The most unrealistic thing is how visible they are prior to buying the player and how precise they are. Some kind of advanced fog of war such as has been outlined in this thread, which continues even once you've signed a player so that it takes maybe 6 months to get a zeroed-in view on all of the attributes, would be better, along with a bit more volatility in the attributes.

[TacticalGenius]

I agree with the OP on the inclusion of this mode. And to counter the argument about freedom of choices, it would only be an additional option!

[Herbert Fandel]

I'd love it, although I know for a fact I would get sacked and still moan it is too easy

[Shake Appeal]

Rather than turn off player search, turn off unrealistic search terms. I shouldn't be able to search by anything that is not widely available public knowledge in the footballing world, or at least at my level or within my league.

Also, it should take three matches for a player's attributes to become obvious. That's either three matches scouted, or three matches playing against you (so you build up knowledge of players in your division or cup competitions just by playing them).

Before they're fully revealed, attributes should be random ranges rather than blank. The range should be 7 points when unknown, 5 after one game scouted, 3 after two, until the attributes are properly revealed after 3 games. So, e.g., when I first looked at a player, I'd see his Finishing is between 11-18. After scouting one game, it narrows down to 12-17. After a second game, it changes to 12-15. And after three, it's finally revealed to be 14.

Or you see a youngster with Strength of 4-11, then 5-10, then 7-10, then 7.

Or, in an extreme example, you see a Brazilian winger with Flair 13-20, then 15-20, then 16-19, then 19.

Players of World Class reputation could have their attributes fully exposed by default. Players of Continental reputation could start at a range of 3. Players of National reputation could start with a range of 5.

Media handling should be a publicly visible trait, but player personality should only become clear over a significant period of time (6 months or more). And if you manage a player for years, you should eventually be able to see more detail about his personality, reflecting your long relationship.

Basically, you should only have knowledge of things that it makes sense for you to know, and the rest has to be earned.

[Kriss]

Lots of embryo LlaMas in this thread

[Ackter]

It's just a shame the LlaMa ethos involves playing as rubbish clubs.

[Kriss]

Starting with rubbish clubs, do get it right

I actually got to manage River Plate in FMC :o

[benallen002]

Starting tactic and usually team selection as well.

Since you and I appear to play the game in much the same manner, I was hoping to bounce a quick question off of you:

Do you lean towards hiring an AssMan with better attributes or more towards one with the same tactical tendencies you want your team to play with? If attributes, which ones do you look for? I look for a guy whose preferred formation is the same as mine and go for the highest Motivation and Tactical Knowledge I can find and the rest be damned. Have you found any value in the other attributes?

[Ackter]

Ideally I'd get attributes, tactical style and media style.

I always go for the man management attributes (motivation etc), tactical knowledge and Judging Potential*. I couldn't care less if he was an awful coach, as long as he's a good manager.

*but only because I use his recommendations on my squad screen so I can see my squad potential at a glance. If you don't do it this way, this can be dumped and it'll open up way more candidates for the job.

I tend to hire guys with different preferred formations from me but still suit the players I have, as that's what they tend to switch to if things aren't going well in the matches.

[benallen002]

I've seen games where I've noticed a club will have more than one AssMan.

I've been wondering about trying this out myself just to avoid the short list of people who are high in all three. Get one ass man for the management and one for the easy squad potential references.