Anyone else too many goals??

[madaye3126]

Yes, I notice that the number of shots in a match has increased from previous versions. Now it is common to get a total of 30-40 shots. Maybe this is due to overall poor defending in the new ME?

[tajj 7]

Not getting this, seeing as a crash has taken away my 6-3 win over Norwich don;t think I have managed more than a 3-0 and only had a couple of 3-2s. Not seen any rediculous games in the AI games either, the odd 3-3 but not these 8s and 7s people are seeing.

Getting about 18-25 shots as well, not 30-40 and I am playing an attacking style, even against big teams they won't have more than 20 shots against me.

Only real issue is these floated through balls and crosses that my defence/keeper ignores and the odd 'wonder goal' that looks like a straight dribble to me where my defenders make no tackle.

[BiggusD]

Not getting this, seeing as a crash has taken away my 6-3 win over Norwich don;t think I have managed more than a 3-0 and only had a couple of 3-2s. Not seen any rediculous games in the AI games either, the odd 3-3 but not these 8s and 7s people are seeing.

Getting about 18-25 shots as well, not 30-40 and I am playing an attacking style, even against big teams they won't have more than 20 shots against me.

Only real issue is these floated through balls and crosses that my defence/keeper ignores and the odd 'wonder goal' that looks like a straight dribble to me where my defenders make no tackle.

You misunderstand. People are talking about 40+ shots in total, not per side. If both you and the opponent have around 20 shots each, that is what people are talking about. It is too much, teams rarely have more than 10 shots each in top level football. It should be very difficult to create chances in football but in FM13beta it seems like you don't have to worry too much about that since you can create more than enough chances just by having 11 players on the pitch. If that's the case SI has a problem that is much bigger than "slightly too many chances".

[PaulC]

I can tell you what the stats for the AI teams are in the beta ME as we run soak tests for season 12/13 with a selection of leagues each time we update the ME:

Hence if any of you are experiencing wildly different stats to this then its related to your own setup, for better or worse.

English Premier Division

Games played 380

Goals per match 2.95

Shots per match 28.11

Shots on target per match 12.58 (45%)

Goals per match (home) 1.65

Shots per match (home) 15.49

Shots on target per match(h) 6.88 (44%)

Goals per match (away) 1.30

Shots per match (away) 12.62

Shots on target per match(a) 5.70 (45%)

Penalties per match 0.21

Penalty conversion 0.15 (70%)

Own Goals per match 0.06

Disallowed Goals per match 0.34

npower Championship

Games played 557

Goals per match 2.98

Shots per match 28.43

Shots on target per match 12.31 (43%)

Goals per match (home) 1.51

Shots per match (home) 14.97

Shots on target per match(h) 6.30 (42%)

Goals per match (away) 1.47

Shots per match (away) 13.40

Shots on target per match(a) 5.99 (45%)

Penalties per match 0.13

Penalty conversion 0.09 (66%)

Own Goals per match 0.06

Disallowed Goals per match 0.34

npower League 1

Games played 557

Goals per match 2.93

Shots per match 27.27

Shots on target per match 11.76 (43%)

Goals per match (home) 1.50

Shots per match (home) 14.44

Shots on target per match(h) 6.12 (42%)

Goals per match (away) 1.43

Shots per match (away) 12.78

Shots on target per match(a) 5.62 (44%)

Penalties per match 0.14

Penalty conversion 0.09 (66%)

Own Goals per match 0.10

Disallowed Goals per match 0.34

German First Division

Games played 307

Goals per match 3.04

Shots per match 27.16

Shots on target per match 12.03 (44%)

Goals per match (home) 1.59

Shots per match (home) 15.13

Shots on target per match(h) 6.57 (43%)

Goals per match (away) 1.45

Shots per match (away) 12.03

Shots on target per match(a) 5.46 (45%)

Penalties per match 0.17

Penalty conversion 0.13 (75%)

Own Goals per match 0.08

Disallowed Goals per match 0.29

LIGA BBVA

Games played 370

Goals per match 3.16

Shots per match 29.85

Shots on target per match 13.69 (46%)

Goals per match (home) 1.73

Shots per match (home) 16.42

Shots on target per match(h) 7.57 (46%)

Goals per match (away) 1.44

Shots per match (away) 13.44

Shots on target per match(a) 6.12 (46%)

Penalties per match 0.19

Penalty conversion 0.14 (73%)

Own Goals per match 0.09

Disallowed Goals per match 0.26

LIGA adelante

Games played 440

Goals per match 3.00

Shots per match 27.21

Shots on target per match 12.10 (44%)

Goals per match (home) 1.65

Shots per match (home) 14.53

Shots on target per match(h) 6.38 (44%)

Goals per match (away) 1.35

Shots per match (away) 12.68

Shots on target per match(a) 5.72 (45%)

Penalties per match 0.15

Penalty conversion 0.09 (62%)

Own Goals per match 0.07

Disallowed Goals per match 0.24

[tajj 7]

You misunderstand. People are talking about 40+ shots in total, not per side. If both you and the opponent have around 20 shots each, that is what people are talking about. It is too much, teams rarely have more than 10 shots each in top level football. It should be very difficult to create chances in football but in FM13beta it seems like you don't have to worry too much about that since you can create more than enough chances just by having 11 players on the pitch. If that's the case SI has a problem that is much bigger than "slightly too many chances".

Decent premier league teams like Everton average about 20 shots a game, they had 33 against Swansea, who had 18, that's a total of 51 shots. When Liverpool beat Norwich 5-2 both teams had 16 shots, that's 32 shots. Liverpool has 27 when they played Reading who had 10, that's 37, Spurs had 27 against Chelsea on Saturday. I could go on but 30-40 shots in a game of premiership football is hardly odd, especially as the cross problems are probably increasing this slightly and most human players will on average play more attacking styles than real life managers.

Theres actual faults in the match engine and then there is people seeing faults in the Match Engine that aren't actually there and this is very much the latter.

The issue stems from the goals from crosses.

Saw some statistics by another poster that said by just looking at around 80 goals around 40% were scored from crosses, whereas real life figure suggest that around 24% of goals are scored from crosses (of all types) but more crucially only 1.6% of crosses attempted result in a goal. The crosses currently in game are creating far too many clear cut chances which is increasing the number of goals and shots being seen.

[sdlier]

I'm playing as oxford united and I'm not experiencing the same as you guys. After 43 games I scored 83 goals and conceded 37. Nothing unusual for a team topping the table. I get the occasional 5-1, 4-1 win and a few 0-2,1-3 losses but nothing out of the extraordinary. I don't have the crosses problem. Maybe it's got something to do with training. I choose defending on average for the week training and attacking movement for the matchday training. ME really looks fine to me.

[haunted1234]

Decent premier league teams like Everton average about 20 shots a game, they had 33 against Swansea, who had 18, that's a total of 51 shots.

em sorry, but where do you get these numbers from?

from all i researched now last 5 everton games

1-1 vs QPR everton 9 shots 4 on target - QPR 11 shots 5 on target

2-2 vs Wigan everton 12 shots 8 on target - Wigan 7 shots 3 on target

3-1 southhampton everton 15 shots 9 target - southhampton 10 shots 5 target

3-0 swansea everton 20 shots 12 on target - swansea 11 shots 6 on target (20 shots clearly a very unique game, not even barcelona has 20 shots in a game even when they play getafe or such likes)

2-2 newcastle everton 10 shots 5 target - newcastle 7 shots 4 target

clearly nobody, and for sure not everton has 20 shots a game... no professional football team has 20 shots a game on average

btw 51 shots in a game, means every 1minute and 45 seconds has to be a shot on the goal...which is clearly impossible

[Herbert Fandel]

I can tell you what the stats for the AI teams are in the beta ME as we run soak tests for season 12/13 with a selection of leagues each time we update the ME:

Hence if any of you are experiencing wildly different stats to this then its related to your own setup, for better or worse.

Are these tests done with human managers? I for one get a lot of goals in my games (which I personally blame on my defending)

but when the AI is playing itself all the scores seem fine.

I assume from what I have read before all games are calculated in the same manner, whether there is a human manager or not, but if there is indeed any deviation, even if just as small as the type of things human manager tend to do, then are these soak tests appropriate?

[PaulC]

em sorry, but where do you get these numbers from?

from all i researched now last 5 everton games

1-1 vs QPR everton 9 shots 4 on target - QPR 11 shots 5 on target

2-2 vs Wigan everton 12 shots 8 on target - Wigan 7 shots 3 on target

3-1 southhampton everton 15 shots 9 target - southhampton 10 shots 5 target

3-0 swansea everton 20 shots 12 on target - swansea 11 shots 6 on target (20 shots clearly a very unique game, not even barcelona has 20 shots in a game even when they play getafe or such likes)

2-2 newcastle everton 10 shots 5 target - newcastle 7 shots 4 target

clearly nobody, and for sure not everton has 20 shots a game... no professional football team has 20 shots a game on average

btw 51 shots in a game, means every 1minute and 45 seconds has to be a shot on the goal...which is clearly impossible

I guess it depends where you look....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/match/2012/sep/22/swansea-v-everton

This is what makes this sort of thing very very hard to judge btw - there are different sources out there counting things in their own way, FM included

[PaulC]

Are these tests done with human managers? I for one get a lot of goals in my games (which I personally blame on my defending)

but when the AI is playing itself all the scores seem fine.

I assume from what I have read before all games are calculated in the same manner, whether there is a human manager or not, but if there is indeed any deviation, even if just as small as the type of things human manager tend to do, then are these soak tests appropriate?

These are without human managers. Its a good reflection of the game world as when you play you are 1 human manager against dozens or hundreds of AI ones. However you have the same tools as the AI.......

[tajj 7]

em sorry, but where do you get these numbers from?

from all i researched now last 5 everton games

1-1 vs QPR everton 9 shots 4 on target - QPR 11 shots 5 on target

2-2 vs Wigan everton 12 shots 8 on target - Wigan 7 shots 3 on target

3-1 southhampton everton 15 shots 9 target - southhampton 10 shots 5 target

3-0 swansea everton 20 shots 12 on target - swansea 11 shots 6 on target (20 shots clearly a very unique game, not even barcelona has 20 shots in a game even when they play getafe or such likes)

2-2 newcastle everton 10 shots 5 target - newcastle 7 shots 4 target

clearly nobody, and for sure not everton has 20 shots a game... no professional football team has 20 shots a game on average

btw 51 shots in a game, means every 1minute and 45 seconds has to be a shot on the goal...which is clearly impossible

http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/3389/Stages/6531/TeamStatistics/England-Premier-League-2012-2013

They get their stats from OPTA, also the BBC and as Paul C has posted other newspapers have the same stats. So where do you get your stats from? As they are clearly wrong.

Also

"btw 51 shots in a game, means every 1minute and 45 seconds has to be a shot on the goal...which is clearly impossible" er not really, seeing as you proved it in your own sentence, a lot can happen in two minutes of football, plus with rebounds and blocks you could get 5 or 6 shots in 20 second period.

Also Barcelona average 15 shots per game, they had 20 shots against Grenada at home so "(20 shots clearly a very unique game, not even barcelona has 20 shots in a game even when they play getafe or such likes)" is also wrong. Real Madrid average 19 shots per game, as do Everton, Manchester City, Tottenham, lots of others have over 15.

[haunted1234]

I guess it depends where you look....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/match/2012/sep/22/swansea-v-everton

This is what makes this sort of thing very very hard to judge btw - there are different sources out there counting things in their own way, FM included

ok ive done some research according to guadian

so guardian says

everton-newcastle 6-3 on target,other source 5-4~

swansea-everton 4-11 on target, 6-12

everton-southampton 8-5, 9-5

wigan-everton 3-7, other source 3-8

QPR-everton 4-5, 3-6

so the numbers differ like +-1 or 2...

if the guardian says "31 attempts", they clearly dont mean 31 shots...

[haunted1234]

http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/3389/Stages/6531/TeamStatistics/England-Premier-League-2012-2013

They get their stats from OPTA, also the BBC and as Paul C has posted other newspapers have the same stats. So where do you get your stats from? As they are clearly wrong.

Also

"btw 51 shots in a game, means every 1minute and 45 seconds has to be a shot on the goal...which is clearly impossible" er not really, seeing as you proved it in your own sentence, a lot can happen in two minutes of football, plus with rebounds and blocks you could get 5 or 6 shots in 20 second period.

Also Barcelona average 15 shots per game, they had 20 shots against Grenada at home so "(20 shots clearly a very unique game, not even barcelona has 20 shots in a game even when they play getafe or such likes)" is also wrong. Real Madrid average 19 shots per game, as do Everton, Manchester City, Tottenham, lots of others have over 15.

btw your site has such high numbers, because they count in shots that were blocked...

does the FM engine take a blocked shot as shot into account?

the shots on target are nearly the same everywhere

[Hoopy05]

Far too many goals for me, over 30 goals in 6 SPL matches on opening day of season. Always random scores like 4-4, 5-3, 6-2 etc every set of fixtures.

Its the same every version until it gets fixed, Always so hard to keep a clean sheet playing 442.

[PaulC]

The FM engine counts shots that are blocked unless its practically a tackle ie within a yard or so.

[sperlz]

Decent premier league teams like Everton average about 20 shots a game, they had 33 against Swansea, who had 18, that's a total of 51 shots. When Liverpool beat Norwich 5-2 both teams had 16 shots, that's 32 shots. Liverpool has 27 when they played Reading who had 10, that's 37, Spurs had 27 against Chelsea on Saturday. I could go on but 30-40 shots in a game of premiership football is hardly odd, especially as the cross problems are probably increasing this slightly and most human players will on average play more attacking styles than real life managers.

Theres actual faults in the match engine and then there is people seeing faults in the Match Engine that aren't actually there and this is very much the latter.

The issue stems from the goals from crosses.

Saw some statistics by another poster that said by just looking at around 80 goals around 40% were scored from crosses, whereas real life figure suggest that around 24% of goals are scored from crosses (of all types) but more crucially only 1.6% of crosses attempted result in a goal. The crosses currently in game are creating far too many clear cut chances which is increasing the number of goals and shots being seen.

Your using Everton as an example but were you aware that currently this season they have had more shots on at goal than any other team in europes top 5 leagues (as quoted by sky sports prior to the QPR game). So Everton should be used as an extreme example in this case. A decent team such as Fulham may be closer to what the average shots per game is this season.

[BiggusD]

http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/3389/Stages/6531/TeamStatistics/England-Premier-League-2012-2013

They get their stats from OPTA, also the BBC and as Paul C has posted other newspapers have the same stats. So where do you get your stats from? As they are clearly wrong.

Also

"btw 51 shots in a game, means every 1minute and 45 seconds has to be a shot on the goal...which is clearly impossible" er not really, seeing as you proved it in your own sentence, a lot can happen in two minutes of football, plus with rebounds and blocks you could get 5 or 6 shots in 20 second period.

Also Barcelona average 15 shots per game, they had 20 shots against Grenada at home so "(20 shots clearly a very unique game, not even barcelona has 20 shots in a game even when they play getafe or such likes)" is also wrong. Real Madrid average 19 shots per game, as do Everton, Manchester City, Tottenham, lots of others have over 15.

One shot every 1 minute 45 seconds means that whenever a team has the ball, that team gets to finish their attacking move. Judging by what people say about the beta, that is exactly what is happening. This is football, not handball.

[PaulC]

As I posted above, we are not getting 50 shots per game, or anything like it over a season. If anyone playing the game is, then it must be down to their own setup.

[jonteyayo]

Amount of goals is very normal for me. 1.9 per game as Serie A leaders (Verona).

[superposh]

As Man City, lost Charity Shield 5-3 to Chelsea, lost to Norwich 3-0, beat Tottenham 5-3, beat West Ham 5-2, lost to Newcastle 4-3, drew 2-2 with Villa then beat Chelsea 4-3. Early days but I would say that is slightly above average! The crossing issue being the major factor. Anyone had any joy with a 5-3-2 formation? An extra man in the middle might help?

[Silverx]

<Goal stats>

So currently all the leagues are too high. The English leagues have already been discussed - generally a good 0.2 or so above real-life averages.

I don't have the actual stats to hand but iirc, the Bundesliga averages around 2.88, with the 2.Bundesliga significantly lower.

La Liga is around 2.76 over the past 5 seasons, so FM is simulating the league a whole 0.4 above the true averages! The Segunda is around 2.6, so again, FM is massively overestimating goals in Spain.

Have also sent you a PM with other info.

[Wilsjay27]

I'm Barcelona and conceded 60 goals in the league, yet still won the league easily, as well as the champs league. Tells you how many goals are being scored, I only managed about 3 clean sheets all season. I ended up making it my mission to try keep a clean sheet, 5 in mid, playing standard,defensive, changing fullbacks to defend ( instead of support etc..) you name it i tried it. is nearly impossible. Way to many goals being scored for and against.

bit annoying to say the least, oh and the beginning of my next season, no cleansheet in my first 12 games.

[Terry01234]

As I posted above, we are not getting 50 shots per game, or anything like it over a season. If anyone playing the game is, then it must be down to their own setup.

Norwich had 40 shots against me earlier /o\

[PaulC]

Norwich had 40 shots against me earlier /o\

You must have done something drastically wrong there surely?

[wanderer89]

Just had a game, and it popped up in the corner, Burnley 9 - 1 Leeds.

[tajj 7]

One shot every 1 minute 45 seconds means that whenever a team has the ball, that team gets to finish their attacking move. Judging by what people say about the beta, that is exactly what is happening. This is football, not handball.

BTW, think you need to read further up, those 51 shots in a game are from a real game, Swansea v Everton. Everton had 33 shots to Swansea's 18. It also includes blocked shots, which FM also includes in it's overall shot count.

So that is in fact football, not handball.

Norwich had 40 shots against me earlier /o\

I'm sorry but this is clearly you do something very very wrong with your tactics.

Finally I said it further up, but I will repeat myself.

The reason there are slightly too many goals is to do with the crossing issues

around 40% of goals in game are coming from crosses, whereas the real life percentage is around 24%, meaning if a standard amount of other goals are being scored then you have around 15% extra amount of goals coming from crosses.

Clearly crossing the ball is leading to far too many chances, only 1.6% of crosses in real life lead to goals. SO a lot more crosses need to be blocked, intercepted, overhit, headed away, caught etc. than is currently happening. The ME performance of all 4 defenders needs adjusting, particularly how narrow the back 4 plays (which allows the space for the crosser and the space for the finishers at the back post) and the defenders/goalie interaction with the ball in their 'zone' as currently the ball is going very close both in the air and on the ground to defenders and the goalie but they are not reacting to it, I think maybe the new ball physics might be an issue.

[Herbert Fandel]

Everyone is slagging off the crosses, and with some virtue, but I think we need to be specific about what type of cross. (unless I am in a minority)

I concede a lot from crosses, but it is always the exact same goal. I never concede from headers from crosses, or from crosses to the near post.

Without fail, if their winger makes it to the byeline, their striker at the back post will peel off further away from the goal, and none of my defenders follow him. Sometimes he even goes really far out, almost to the edge of the box parallel to the touchline.

Then the aerieal cross goes across the goal, and lands at his feet. He then, even though it is often a ridiculously tight angle, shoots back across goal and into the corner of the net.

I think what needs to be changed is the awareness of your defenders to the striker peel off towards the back post, and the fact that strikers score with 99% of shots from tight angles in this scenario.

P.s. If this is only as a result of my tactics, which could well be the case, feel free to enlighten me!

[PaulC]

We have worked on the defending of crosses for the next ME update.

[tajj 7]

Everyone is slagging off the crosses, and with some virtue, but I think we need to be specific about what type of cross. (unless I am in a minority)

I concede a lot from crosses, but it is always the exact same goal. I never concede from headers from crosses, or from crosses to the near post.

Without fail, if their winger makes it to the byeline, their striker at the back post will peel off further away from the goal, and none of my defenders follow him. Sometimes he even goes really far out, almost to the edge of the box parallel to the touchline.

Then the aerieal cross goes across the goal, and lands at his feet. He then, even though it is often a ridiculously tight angle, shoots back across goal and into the corner of the net.

I think what needs to be changed is the awareness of your defenders to the striker peel off towards the back post, and the fact that strikers score with 99% of shots from tight angles in this scenario.

P.s. If this is only as a result of my tactics, which could well be the case, feel free to enlighten me!

I concede from headers but still in a similar manner to what you described, they will be always unmarked at the far post area and a lot of the time it will be the winger or attacking midfielder from that side rather than the striker. Sometimes they head it in, sometimes they volley it in and sometimes they bring it down and shoot from an obscene angle and either score or hit the post.

I have conceded some 'standard' crossed goals, i.e. deep crosses headed in by a bit target man from the penalty spot area or driven low crosses from the byeline that are poked home form the 6 yard box. But not an unusual number of these goals compared to other types.

[dr p wigwam]

My experience is similar to the way you two describe it, but for me it seems to be winger to winger. Dont see strikers pick up these goals as much.

Basically, both full backs seem totally inept, one allowing the first winger to cross, the other not marking the second winger at all.

Obviously, this applies to both teams equally, however I seem to be struggling tactically, whereas the AI is not

[Guest]

Its not just crosses , long shots and poor defending and dogey goalkeeping from top players as well.

[dr p wigwam]

I conceded a wonderful goal earlier, where Damian Duff took the ball down the wing to the byline, round my full back, through my centre back and scored at the near post as if my GK wasnt there. Damian Duff ffs...

[tajj 7]

I conceded a wonderful goal earlier, where Damian Duff took the ball down the wing to the byline, round my full back, through my centre back and scored at the near post as if my GK wasnt there. Damian Duff ffs...

Conceded a couple of those and scored a few too, Nathaniel Clyne scored one form full back, Any player with a decent combination of pace, acceleration and dribbling seems to be scoring these.

[skemar007]

The latest

[tajj 7]

The latest

Level of shots looks ok, how were the goals scored? Crosses?

[scott MUFC]

my assistant got this one in a reserves match (was holidaying for 4 days to window) and he has helped himself to some of my firs team players

i think the buggy defending is the problem.

[skemar007]

Level of shots looks ok, how were the goals scored? Crosses?

5 crosses

And some very dodgy goal keeping for about 2 and through balls

[tajj 7]

5 crosses

And some very dodgy goal keeping for about 2 and through balls

Think that's the issue, no game has 5 goals from crosses, that's pretty much half the goals scored, the keepers are also being improved and the through balls are probably 'normal' goals especially considering the attacking talent both those teams have.

Hopefully the ME fixes will sort this out and I'm pretty sure this is where the extra goals are coming from. Teams would probably attempt 20+ crosses just to get one goal from them IRL.

[skemar007]

Think that's the issue, no game has 5 goals from crosses, that's pretty much half the goals scored, the keepers are also being improved and the through balls are probably 'normal' goals especially considering the attacking talent both those teams have.

Hopefully the ME fixes will sort this out and I'm pretty sure this is where the extra goals are coming from. Teams would probably attempt 20+ crosses just to get one goal from them IRL.

It is not 2 bad

Can not wait for the full game and the lil bugs are fixed

Even with the bugs i am still loving this game

[Acaccio]

My opinion.

Not like to comment because I do not know the language and i use translator, I'm in my 3rd season of the Brazilian, i won five titles, three in the first season with tactics that created in the moment without much analysis, I dont have prints, but most games was 30 shots, lots of goals in every game, i play with the Palmeiras, this year that fight to not be relegated and i won three titles right away, are not the players, are not good tactics, just bugs like bug pressure on the sides and the bug of keeper I can say that 40 shots are very quiet to happen, but I who do them, just to finish I found the easiest fm to play, win and create tactics, and more nice too. I long for the final version.