Is the 6+5 rule going to be implemented in FM2013 (or other future releases)?

[Snaus]

I think I really like the idea of the 6+5 rule which will lead to a more balanced playing field amongst the clubs in a nation and amongst the FA's of the nations. I think it could lead to a boost to smaller footballing countries because their talented youth won't be bought off so early in their career.

I'm not quite sure how far along the FIFA/UEFA is with implementing this rule but I would love to at least have an option I can tick to use that rule in future FM's.

So are there any plans to do this, and what do people think about the rule?

[postal postie]

its not being implemented. its illegal under EU labour laws

[raydenvm]

English Premier League adopted this rule as eight home-grown players. It's already in FM 2012. Other leagues have their own restrictions which are also implemented in FM.

[tomtuck01]

There is no 6+5 rule, so why would SI waste their time coding it?

[101011]

If you want a 6+5 rule or similar play in the Russian or Turkish Premier League.

[jayahr]

The 6+5 rule will be implemented in the game once it is implemented irl

From a legal point of view it is indeed illegal for contavening EU law, as long as the rule refers to the nationality of players. Would such rule however contain an according restriction with reference to home-grown players, it would likely pass the test, as the EU commission has already indicated that it would not object such rule.

But apparently there is no concrete plan of introducing it atm.

[CWR15]

its not being implemented. its illegal under EU labour laws

That is debatable in my opinion (being illegal). I would argue that a club not wanting to buy a player who is cup tied for Europe is also illegal under EU labour laws. As long as there is no rule in place which prevents clubs from signing players of other nationalities then I can't see there being a problem.

There are ways around it, loopholes if you like, The rules and requirements for being classed as home grown could be tightened for one. I do agree though, If it was implemented I would envisage a challenge somewhere down the line, but until a precedent has been set, and the rule has been put in place so the legalities can be challenged, we can't say for sure that it would be illegal.

[FrazT]

As has been said many times before by SI, once a league rule becomes active, it will be implemented into the game, but untill that time, nothing will happen.

[Kenco]

You can do it through the editor.

[SCIAG]

You can do it through the editor.

This- just edit it in yourself

[Snaus]

Thanks to everyone for replying. I guess we'll have to wait 'till it becomes a real rule IRL.

Although I'd still like to hear people's opinion about the plan for this rule, and if you'd like it.

You can do it through the editor.

I've tried to dabble in that. But I can't find an easy way to do it. Because, if I understand the Editor, you can't make changes to the existing leagues, you can only add a few new lower leagues unto them where you can add these kind of match rules. The only way how I could make all the European leagues have a 6+5 match rule is to recreate all those leagues from scratch. Or am I doing something wrong?

[postal postie]

That is debatable in my opinion (being illegal). I would argue that a club not wanting to buy a player who is cup tied for Europe is also illegal under EU labour laws.

what would be illigal? the club not wanting to buy the player, or the rule that cup-ties the player? the rule doesn't prevent the player from plying his trade under the Free Movement of labour in the EU, law.

The player is not being put under any unfair rstrictions that would severely limit their ability to work and it doesn't make the distinction between player nationalities.

the 6+5 rule, however, would. An EU player would be unfairly stopped from working if they fell outside of the player limits.

[jayahr]

I've tried to dabble in that. But I can't find an easy way to do it. Because, if I understand the Editor, you can't make changes to the existing leagues, you can only add a few new lower leagues unto them where you can add these kind of match rules. The only way how I could make all the European leagues have a 6+5 match rule is to recreate all those leagues from scratch. Or am I doing something wrong?

IIRC, to add new rules to competitions, I'm afraid you'll have to recreate them from scratch. I.e. to add them to England you'd have to replace their current league structure with a new one that is basically identical but for the added 6+5 rule.

[Snaus]

IIRC, to add new rules to competitions, I'm afraid you'll have to recreate them from scratch. I.e. to add them to England you'd have to replace their current league structure with a new one that is basically identical but for the added 6+5 rule.

Darnit, but thanks. I was afraid of that. Well maybe a nice job for a rainy Sunday afternoon.

[Snaus]

what would be illigal? the club not wanting to buy the player, or the rule that cup-ties the player? the rule doesn't prevent the player from plying his trade under the Free Movement of labour in the EU, law.

The player is not being put under any unfair rstrictions that would severely limit their ability to work and it doesn't make the distinction between player nationalities.

the 6+5 rule, however, would. An EU player would be unfairly stopped from working if they fell outside of the player limits.

In thruth I don't see how the rule could discriminate against EU-members in regards to their chance of getting work. When you transfer to a club in another country that already has got a fair deal of foreign players, than you have just as much chance of making it into the first side as anyother. It would be a bit as if you are a DL and the club already has 2 other DL's. You'd have to compete with them and you are not guarenteed a starting position as there is only place for 1 DL in a side. Or take a look at racing. I know that most F1 teams have 3 riders i.o. just 2. 1 is a back up and test rider that has got little chance that he'll ever race a race. These analogies are ofcourse far from perfect, but I hope they illustrate my point. Yes in literal essence the 5+6 rule discriminates as it makes a distinquish between foreign and not foreign player in the EU. But there must be easy ways to circumvent that literal description and make it more aligned to the purpose of the EU laws of making easier workplace transfer possible within the EU.

[jayahr]

In thruth I don't see how the rule could discriminate against EU-members in regards to their chance of getting work. When you transfer to a club in another country that already has got a fair deal of foreign players, than you have just as much chance of making it into the first side as anyother. It would be a bit as if you are a DL and the club already has 2 other DL's. You'd have to compete with them and you are not guarenteed a starting position as there is only place for 1 DL in a side. Or take a look at racing. I know that most F1 teams have 3 riders i.o. just 2. 1 is a back up and test rider that has got little chance that he'll ever race a race. These analogies are ofcourse far from perfect, but I hope they illustrate my point. Yes in literal essence the 5+6 rule discriminates as it makes a distinquish between foreign and not foreign player in the EU. But there must be easy ways to circumvent that literal description and make it more aligned to the purpose of the EU laws of making easier workplace transfer possible within the EU.

Sorry, as a lawyer I have to contradict here.

Firstly, with 6+5 in place as a foreigner you'd have a lesser chance to be fielded than as a national. Because the club is allowed to field 11 nationals, but only up to six foreigners. Thus, you are blatantly discriminated for your nationality. Even more, such discrimination is not a side product but the whole POINT of such rule.

Also, under European laws, effective discrimination is equivalent to legal discrimination. You cannot design a rule to achieve factual discrimination just by avoiding according open statements in the law's text. They are not that stupid

That said, when indeed a rule has a lesser discriminatory effect, then THAT may make the necessary difference on the legal side. The home-grown player rule does not openly discriminate on the basis of nationality, however creates a factual discrimination in that respect. Still, as it the discriminatory effect is smaller, the EU bodies consider it legal because they see this discrimination as justified by the goals which the rule was made to achieve.

hth

[lil ole me]

Simple....break away from the EU.

[mlp071]

IIRC, to add new rules to competitions, I'm afraid you'll have to recreate them from scratch. I.e. to add them to England you'd have to replace their current league structure with a new one that is basically identical but for the added 6+5 rule.

Yeah sadly you can't just edit rules for existing leagues Otherwise i would love to change it to rules from pre-Bosman era.I still can't swallow today's rules that allow team to field 11 non domestic players...

[bumchin]

lets make the game fun again.please f.a,bring back the ruling that made denis irwin foreign...LOL

[BiggusD]

Sorry, as a lawyer I have to contradict here.

Firstly, with 6+5 in place as a foreigner you'd have a lesser chance to be fielded than as a national. Because the club is allowed to field 11 nationals, but only up to six foreigners. Thus, you are blatantly discriminated for your nationality. Even more, such discrimination is not a side product but the whole POINT of such rule.

Also, under European laws, effective discrimination is equivalent to legal discrimination. You cannot design a rule to achieve factual discrimination just by avoiding according open statements in the law's text. They are not that stupid

That said, when indeed a rule has a lesser discriminatory effect, then THAT may make the necessary difference on the legal side. The home-grown player rule does not openly discriminate on the basis of nationality, however creates a factual discrimination in that respect. Still, as it the discriminatory effect is smaller, the EU bodies consider it legal because they see this discrimination as justified by the goals which the rule was made to achieve.

hth

This would be all swell if FIFA/UEFA/the FA's were employers.

They are not.

They are the ones who arrange a sports event, and the employers voluntarily participates in it and has to follow the rules that are set up. The various FA's can be as discriminatory they b.well like.

[jayahr]

This would be all swell if FIFA/UEFA/the FA's were employers.

They are not.

They are the ones who arrange a sports event, and the employers voluntarily participates in it and has to follow the rules that are set up. The various FA's can be as discriminatory they b.well like.

Nope.

The law applies to everyone who has a factual influence which can impair the European rights. In football that's the FAs when it comes to rules like these.

N.b. the rules which violated the EU law in the Bosman judgment were also FA rules. The court has explicitly stated that the FAs are subject to its jurisdiction.

Even more, a club policy like the one of Atletic Bilbao (which discriminates even more people than just other EU nationals) will less likely be challenged there.