bigdirtyjames Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by matthiele: taylor should be banned for as long as da silva is injured for. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Really? For a clumsy challenge? Bendtner did the exact same thing on Andy Johnson a month ago and got a 2nd yellow for it. The only difference is that Andy Johnson's foot was off the ground or he would've probably ended up like Eduardo. Didn't hear anyone calling for bans then. Besides. I think Wenger has since seen common sense and retracted his earlier statement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbokav1971 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 ROFL . Now it's a problem with the whole English game . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toon07 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Maviarab: Now you please tell me, if it goes unpunished (above the normal red card ban) you tell me what every defender and midfielder up and down the counrty will think? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes, I'm completely sure every defender in the country will think "hey, I know, it'll be great for me and my team if I break this fella's leg and get sent off, because I won't be banned for life" That's a stupid arguament. Nobody gains from this kind of challenge, so players won't suddenly start thinking it's a good idea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtuck01 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by matthiele: tomtuck i think i know exactly what kind of player you would be. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> No you don't because my career was eneded before it started when I was 15 playing for Man City's under 19 team. Dont talk about me when you dont know. I know what a deliberately bad tackle looks like, and Martin Taylor's challnge wasn't malicious or anything like that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hufton Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I don't think you can fairly say that Taylor hardly touched him. It was a definite red card for me, even before I saw the damage, and I can honestly say that this was my immediate reaction because I had no idea what had happened until I saw the full run through of the incident on MoTD. It was a bad challenge, which unfortunately coincided with some very bad luck. On the other hand, if I had a defender who hadn't challenged for the ball in that situation he would have been out of a job anyway. Eduardo can probably take some hope from the example of Jimmy Bullard, who has come back quite well from a shocking injury, albeit not even close to the same as this (but I can't think of an example like this that worked out well for the victim). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lambs Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by matthiele: taylor should be banned for as long as da silva is injured for. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> This burn the Frankenstein monster attitude is not on. Taylor is not a malicious or aggressive player, his past record will testify to this. This was simply a combination of Taylor committing him self to the tackle and Eduardo being too fast for him. yes it is bad luck for both players (more so for Eduardo). But in a high pace game like this, serious injuries are going to occur. Bringing out the torches to burn Taylor are not going to help either player. Watch the tackle on normal speed, not slow motion, and it doesn't even warrant a yellow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtuck01 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The Lambs: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by matthiele: taylor should be banned for as long as da silva is injured for. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> This burn the Frankenstein monster attitude is not on. Taylor is not a malicious or aggressive player, his past record will testify to this. This was simply a combination of Taylor committing him self to the tackle and Eduardo being too fast for him. yes it is bad luck for both players (more so for Eduardo). But in a high pace game like this, serious injuries are going to occur. Bringing out the torches to burn Taylor are not going to help either player. Watch the tackle on normal speed, not slow motion, and it doesn't even warrant a yellow. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Well said The Lambs \o/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nostromo Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by matthiele: taylor should be banned for as long as da silva is injured for. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> i dont recall roy keane getting banned for life for breaking legs and relocating knees. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maviarab Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Now it's a problem with the whole English game </div></BLOCKQUOTE> You know Jumbo I used to respect you around here over the years but that comment...well. So your going to tell me its not a problem in the English game? You can't watch much football from the EPL down to the Conference then is all I can say. Toon, I'm not saying they will try to break peoples legs (thanks for summing what I thought people here would say) but they wil go into challenges knowing that the consequences will be minor. Lets face it. There is no place for tackles like that in the game period. As for Bendtners challenge, that was out of order also and should have been penalised more imo. Hell you can barely get shoulder to shoulder in the English game now without getting a yellow. The sliding back tackle was outlawed as it was deemed too dangerous. Why is this any different? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthiele Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 from what i saw da silva was running right at taylor and he jumped right though him. bigdirtyjames you may be right but i would like you to name just one player who has been injured like this from an arsenal tackle. im interested to know if you can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nostromo Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TFS: He dived. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> h needs to adjust his tactics (get well soon ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maviarab Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Watch the tackle on normal speed, not slow motion </div></BLOCKQUOTE> And that should make a difference should it? Oh it was fast so its ok? And as for torches and the like I'm not suggesting Taylor should get a 12 month ban or anything ridiculous like that, but a 10 game/2 month or something similar would be sufficient in my book and at the same time send a message out. As for Taylor himself I do like him. He was pivitol in Norwich's 13 game unbeaten run. I wish McLiesh had not been greedy and overpriced a player he publicy said had no future at the club. Just think, he could be at city now, making me happy and non of this would have happened. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nostromo Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 this is nothing compared to nathan brown's leg break (AFL, Richmond) he was back after 18mths. if he can do it, so can this lad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtuck01 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">but a 10 game/2 month or something similar would be sufficient in my book and at the same time send a message out. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Why? A message doesn't need to be sent out. The tackle was mistimed, end of really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthiele Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 my original post was actually said a bit tongue in cheek. if players knew they might be out for as long as the player they inujure we would probably see a large reduction in bad tackles. but i know it would never happen. jimbokov i think you and i have been watching different english leagues cos in the one i watch tackles like taht are a dime a dozen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kccircle Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by silcock69: id say it deserved a red the tackle was high and over the ball. there was no intent. but in my opinion still a red card. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> No intent but a red? Its unfortunate that Sky didnt show the live action replays. The image of the boot on the leg seems to be the one that will carry through. Shame really as not the worst tackle seen on MotD TONIGHT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maviarab Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Why? A message doesn't need to be sent out. The tackle was mistimed, end of really. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> With an attitude like that no wonder you tried it as a footballer. Its not the fact that it was just clumsy, it was clumsy with a high foor and studs facing another player. I dont know, maybe your a Birmingham fan but your obviously not understanding that are you? So no, not 'end of really'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hufton Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I think people need to be a little more balanced here. On one side we've got Arsenal fans saying that it was a horrendous tackle and Taylor should be banned from kicking a ball about in his back yard, and then we've got everyone who doesn't like Arsenal saying that the challenge was good. I know Taylor from his days at Blackburn and he is a good guy, even if one picture I've seen of today disagrees. I really can't explain the image of him smiling like a sociopath while Eduardo lies stricken, but I still have trouble believing that there was any intent to cause lasting damage to Eduardo. I also know that Gary Lewin is very worried about Eduardo, and that anyone who really thinks that he will be back before the start of 2009-10 season is deluded, and there is serious concern about his future career, not only getting back, but the long term effects that the injury could have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtuck01 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Maviarab: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Why? A message doesn't need to be sent out. The tackle was mistimed, end of really. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> With an attitude like that no wonder you tried it as a footballer. Its not the fact that it was just clumsy, it was clumsy with a high foor and studs facing another player. I dont know, maybe your a Birmingham fan but your obviously not understanding that are you? So no, not 'end of really'. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Like I said before, my career was ended before it started by a bad tackle. So far I have had 5 operations to try and repair the damage fully. I can only play Sunday league football thanks to the tackle I eas on the end of. I know more than anyone what a bad tackle can do. Any slide tackle results with studs showing. It is impossible NOT to show your studs when making a sliding challenge. There was no intent from Taylor and it was just clumsy. A yellow card would have been sufficent punishment. Arsene Wenger has now said this himself. And No, Im not a Birmingham fan whatsoever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simme Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 This isn't just a big loss for football if his career is over, it's been lying in the air. This season the twofooters have been very many and it was just a matter of time before something like this would happen. To be honest I don't think that players that go in with both feet and stubs forward have anything to do on a pitch. YOu can't blame a tackle like this that he was to slow and Eduardo was to quick. This wasn't a mistimed challenge, because thos who tackle like this should be given a red card even if they misses a player. The only positive is that I finally see the refs giving red card for them. And I think this injury is very bad for the European Championship. Croatia had every chance in the world to go all the way this time but now their chances are small. Thanks to Taylor. I know he didn't go in the challenge with the intention to break Eduardo's leg, but what does player think when he goes in to a challenge with the stubs first? I think every tackle like this, whatever the consequenses are, the player should get a long ban. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maviarab Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 hufton, I'm not an Arsenal fan and I am a fan of Taylor. Wish he had signed for Norwich. And I agree I don't think it was malicious, but it was dangerous, and that cannot be tolerated. Whats really crazy about today to me is, Mascherano raises his hand to Aliadiere but does not even get a yellow, Aliadiere gets his handbag out to retaliate and gets sent off and I can predict now he will get more punishment from the FA than Taylor will. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthiele Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 did you even hear what wenger said? i never heard him say a yellow was justified. dont know why you would use what wenger said to justify your stance. to people saying that the reason tackles like that are needed because arsenal etc play better football/have more money that sounds a lot like the girls get raped cos thay wear short skirts arguement. ridiculous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hufton Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Ask Jamie Carragher about bad tackles. Lucas Neill's challenge on him was a shocker. Would we be having the same discussion if this had been the result of Dirk Kuyt's "tackle" on Phil Neville earlier in the season? If that had made contact the results would have been at least as bad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdirtyjames Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by matthiele: from what i saw da silva was running right at taylor and he jumped right though him. bigdirtyjames you may be right but i would like you to name just one player who has been injured like this from an arsenal tackle. im interested to know if you can. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Can you tell me how many playters have been injured from tackles like that? I think I can remember 5 at most my whole life. ...and please, behave yourself fella. The fact AJ wasn't injured from the said tackle was pure luck compared to the tackle on Eduardo. That's a typical Arsenal response to a situation like that. No-one is denying that the tackle is a red card - in hindsight, but like Bendtners on Johnson, 9 times out of 10, the ref doesn't send the player off and the player doesn't get injured. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtuck01 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by matthiele: to people saying that the reason tackles like that are needed because arsenal etc play better football/have more money that sounds a lot like the girls get raped cos thay wear short skirts arguement. ridiculous. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Who ever said ANYTHING like that in this thread? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthiele Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 umm gubbs onpage 1. read first b4 posting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtuck01 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 He didnt say the tackle was needed, he said that players are more likely to put in tougher tackles on players who play for top 4 sides because they are the better players in the league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hufton Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I suppose bad tackles are more likely against flair players, and also when players are more fired up against the big teams, but similar tackles end up with less serious results all the time, not just in games with the big teams. Its not really a mitigating factor that Eduardo is a good player and Taylor is an average defender. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trebor1185 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 It was definitely a red card even if no injury had been done. But there's no need to give a huge ban to Taylor just because his clumsy tackle resulted in a bad injury. Similar tackles happen all the time it's just very unlucky that this has happened. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chezwig© Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I haven't seen the tackle but i've heard the injury occured to his ankle, or just above it. If that's the case then don't expect Eduardo to be walking within a year, let alone getting back to match fitness. If his Fibula and Tibia is broken, then it's very likely that the Achilles Tendon, Posterior/Anterior interior tibiofibular ligament is heavily damaged, or detached. Both of these muscles are very important for mopping up pressure placed on the sole of your foot, and also for dorsiflexion, or moving your toes. All the money in the world won't make much difference here, they'll be able to staple back most of his bones and the muscles will eventually heal after extensive surgery but they will never be 100% and he'll be lucky to be playing at proffesional level, let alone playing football at all. It's difference though if the break is further up the leg, as the techniques used to repair breaks is really decent these days, i've seen patients up and about weeks after breaks sometimes. Good luck to him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
morton2003 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Was a clumsy tackle late and very unlucky for this to have happened , but this tackle was nothing compared to the Benfica thug Binya's tackle on Scott Brown during the champs league group stages. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blab Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 News in Croatia are quoting Arsenal's scout Boro Primorac - he said that only the fibula is broken and that there is no danger to Eduardo's career. He also said that he will be out for about 5 months, and that his rehabilitation will begin in about two months. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross1 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 my guess is that he will make a full recovery. It looks like (a) fairly clean break(s), bones heal alright from that. Although i think it looked like his bone broke the skin, that can often cause extra problems. it when you have complicated fractures, for instace where parts of the bones are crushed that you generally get bigger problems. like what happened to my wrist: http://s86.photobucket.com/albums/k120/Rossaaa/bedroom/...nt=picture0414oa.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFuzzyOne Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 from what the leg break looks like, it looks like his tibula is broken, and the achilles tendon may have suffered some damage. the ankle looks severely damaged too. I showed the picture to me mum and she winced. He'll play again, but he'll never be as fast and sharp as he was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chezwig© Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ross1: my guess is that he will make a full recovery. It looks like (a) fairly clean break(s), bones heal alright from that. Although i think it looked like his bone broke the skin, that can often cause extra problems. it when you have complicated fractures, for instace where parts of the bones are crushed that you generally get bigger problems. like what happened to my wrist: http://s86.photobucket.com/albums/k120/Rossaaa/bedroom/...nt=picture0414oa.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Well it depends, as I stated before, where the break occurs. The "best" place to break your leg is halfway between your knee and ankle, as only the Gastrocnemius and the bone is in this area, really. Breaks nearer the knee and ankle are more complicated because of the muscles, arterys etc which are heavily concentrated in these areas. These are important to make your motor funtions work. It seems like Eduardo's break is very close to the ankle. So while the bone may heal there are many other things to consider! I am certain Eduardo will lose much of his motor funtions in the future. That's a nasty injury by the way, I hope it's fully healed and that there haven't been many long term affects Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chezwig© Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheFuzzyOne: from what the leg break looks like, it looks like his tibula is broken, and the achilles tendon may have suffered some damage. the ankle looks severely damaged too. I showed the picture to me mum and she winced. He'll play again, but he'll never be as fast and sharp as he was. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> What's your mum doing up at this time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phnompenhandy Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 C'mon fellas - the first post was a legit question but this thread has gone right off-topic. The forum is for questions about FM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundian Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by morton2003: Was a clumsy tackle late and very unlucky for this to have happened , but this tackle was nothing compared to the Benfica thug Binya's tackle on Scott Brown during the champs league group stages. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I was hoping someone would point that out. Saves me googling to find the little b******s name. Martin Taylor's challenge was a very badly timed and clumsy challenge, Binya's looked like the intent to take the player out of the game permanently was there. The precedent has been set by that, Taylor should suffer no more (than he already is judging by the look on his face as he walked off the pitch) than Binya. Binya was just lucky that we're made of steel round these parts. As for the "only a yellow" brigade? It was a high, studded, tackle, it started about 2 inches below Eduardo's knee, it ended in tradegy. Even ignoring the outcome of the challenge it was still completely unacceptable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by matthiele: it has a lot to do with the fact that many english teams believe that the way to win games is to smash the opposition. thank you thug soccer! </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Yeah I agree, no other league in the world has ever done dirty challenges causing broken bones etc Boosts Englands chances against Croatia a bit too now that I dont think he will the player he is now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirdez24 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hufton: Ask Jamie Carragher about bad tackles. Lucas Neill's challenge on him was a shocker. Would we be having the same discussion if this had been the result of Dirk Kuyt's "tackle" on Phil Neville earlier in the season? If that had made contact the results would have been at least as bad. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Exactly. Once you start dishing out punishments based on if a player gets injured or not then you open up a ridiculous can of worms. There have been, IMO, worse tackles that haven't resulted in such horrific consequences. Taylor is going to end up with a horrible reputation when someone like Mikel at Chelsea has put in several similar tackles that, by fortune, haven't ended as badly. It's luck of the draw. Michael Brown on Giggs, opening day last season? He's lucky Giggs got up and walked away from that and only got a yellow, so it's forgotten about. Just as bad though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Ter Posted February 23, 2008 SI Staff Share Posted February 23, 2008 Not really the place to discuss this Try http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8191933985/m/5782020383 or http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8191933985/m/4572020723 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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