The Real Arsenal (SI version)

[yaşar]

Correction to one of my earlier posts there wasn't a 2-2-4 duty split but a 2-4-2 split.

Also another thing I've found is only 2 to 4 roles, most of the time 3 roles are changed from the default tactic creator roles.

for 4-2-3-1 Denmark this would be:

Goalkeeper Defend

Full Back Auto

C.Def Defend

C.Def Defend

Full Back Auto

C.Mid Auto

C.Mid Defend

Winger Attack

Att.Mid Support

Winger Attack

Deep Lying Forward Support

On my experiement Wenger often changes a C.Mid to Advanced Playmaker - Support (more than likely because he is set to use playmakers)

Inside Forwards are more often than not only used if they are playing on the opposite wing to their natural foot i.e. Nasri playing on the left, which makes sense with the cut in instruction it gives.

And Target Man only tends to be used if a natural target man is playing i.e. Chamakh

Lastly the majority of the time the striker should be on support duty unless you are strongly expected to win.

Pjj what is the starting strategy for this tactic and what kind of d-line for this push up or deep ?

[...Eternal Sin...]

Tottenham on Harry Redknap any have this formation?

[pjj]

Pjj what is the starting strategy for this tactic and what kind of d-line for this push up or deep ?

Wenger uses attacking for every match he is favorite to win, Control if slight underdogs and standard if massive underdogs.

Using this tactic myself if my Scout says the opposition struggle against a deep defensive line, I just use the touchline shout drop deeper etc

From my experiement it's a strong belief that AI managers DO NOT make any weird changes to sliders but use the tactic creator and touchline shouts.

[CapEm]

Del Nieri Defensive tactic, away tactic for Champions league tie

http://www.filefront.com/17794351/Actual Del Nieri - At. Madrid (Defensive).tac

Ancelotti - Chelsea

http://www.filefront.com/17794352/Actual Ancelloti - Chelsea.tac

Jorge Jesus - Benfica (used at home against Barcelona in the CL)

http://www.filefront.com/17794353/Actual Jorge Jesus - Benfica.tac

I have done a bit of extra research after I decided to check how Del Nieri played with his At. Madrid side in a Champions League game, and I noticed he had changed his starting strategy to defensive. I decided to copy it, and at the same time, I inspected some of the other tactics used by the AI in the knockout rounds of the CL. In almost every case it seemed the AI manager started the match with a defensive strategy when playing away, except for Barcelona, Arsenal and Man Utd, who still started attacking when away. You could make a few assumptions, one that I made is that unless your a top class team, the AI's strategy when playing away in a continental competition, seems to be defensive, regardless of the odds. I will pay much closer attention once the next knockout round begins, and be back with my findings.

@ Pjj - Awesome work and I look forward to all of your findings. Great work. I haven't analyzed the AI tactics over the course of a season or stretch of games, but I can't say I've seen much change in the AI's tactic. Wenger still plays with an advanced forward which is different from your findings, but could be because of the difference in attributes. The only thing I see change on a consistent basis is the CM. But again, I don't watch and analyze tactics from game to game. I'd be very curious how the comparisons would look if you made a couple managers who are identical except one is ultra defensive, one is standard, and one is ultra attacking. I also think the 4-5-1 Denmark doesn't leave a lot of flexibility in the roles that a 4-4-2 might offer, but thats only my own opinion based on what I've seen the AI use. I've seen a lot of different 4-4-2 tactics but the 4-5-1 tactics all look very similar. Just food for thought in case you were looking to do a more in depth analysis.

[rich74]

nice one capEm i have always liked the way benfica play, i will give this a try real soon thank you, hope to hear more from you soon keep up the sterling work sir

[Sad Git]

From my experiement it's a strong belief that AI managers DO NOT make any weird changes to sliders but use the tactic creator and touchline shouts.

I'm sure that SI have stated that the AI managers use the Tactics Creator, with "tweaks", whatever that means.

I'm sorry if this question has already been asked but how do you manage to extract this information about whether the AI is using "Control", "Attacking", strategy or whatever? I'd love to look at this information myself.

[pjj]

I'm sure that SI have stated that the AI managers use the Tactics Creator, with "tweaks", whatever that means.

I'm sorry if this question has already been asked but how do you manage to extract this information about whether the AI is using "Control", "Attacking", strategy or whatever? I'd love to look at this information myself.

With Wenger he was edited to be a super brilliant attacking manager - so far he has played Starting Strategy Attacking in the majority of games.

If a slight underdog then Control

If very unlikely to win then Standard.

I haven't had much time of late to continue the experiment.

[CapEm]

I'm sure that SI have stated that the AI managers use the Tactics Creator, with "tweaks", whatever that means.

I'm sorry if this question has already been asked but how do you manage to extract this information about whether the AI is using "Control", "Attacking", strategy or whatever? I'd love to look at this information myself.

for your first part... the "tweaks" mentioned are very small if anything, aside from shouts. I've seen AI tactics that require a 1 notch tweak for full backs closing down, or an AMC's mentality tweaked one notch, and the passing slider tweaked 1 notch to create global passing for the mids and forwards in a few tactics... but that is it. Sideline shouts are a different story, and unfortunately, impossible to figure out from what I've found.

How I manage to figure out what kind of strategy they use, comes down to one slider alone... the mentality slider. I wouldn't call myself a guru, but I can quickly tell what kind of philosophy and starting strategy the AI is using based on just the mentality slider. The specific roles are tougher and you need to go through each slider to completely copy the tactic. How it is done, has already been outlined... if I get a few minutes, I'll copy and paste the guideline into the first post.

[CapEm]

I can confirm that the AI seems to have a specific strategy when it comes to champions league ties. In my save, Olympique Lyonnais were matched with At. Madrid, and Barcelona matched up against Man Utd. In the first game of the tie, each away team played with their defensive strategy. In the second game, depending on aggregate score, the AI would adjust their mentality. If leading or tied, they would still play defensively. But if behind, the AI would start with their normal starting strategy. I also can confirm pjj's findings, that if an AI manager plays with a "very fluid" philosophy, and attacking mentality, the most defensive they will start with is "Standard". I think we can assume that a manager's philosophy effects the variation in starting strategies.

Eg.

Wenger who likes to play a "very fluid" philosophy, will start with Attacking, and move down to Standard for long odds matches and in the first leg of a tie if away.

Fergie, who likes just a "fluid" philosophy, will use "control" as his normal starting strategy, and defensive in long odds matches (not confirmed, haven't seen the odds heavily against them) or when playing away in the first leg of a tie. But I haven't seen anything in between yet.

[CapEm]

In my next season, I'am going to try and create a spreadsheet and follow the different tactics the AI uses throughout the season. The plan will be to follow a big club like Man U, a mid table club and a club looking to battle relegation, and also a club that plays with a "very fluid" mentality as it seems they employ different strategies for defensive ties. Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome. Anybody else who has been copying tactics can that can add some input, please do so. My hope is that I can narrow the copying of tactics down to a couple sliders so I can quickly figure out strategy and roles, without spending a lot of time looking through every slider.

eg. Mentality = philosophy and starting strategy

Run from deep = difference between CM and ST

Wide play = Wide players.

Anyways, I hope to set up a spread sheet to analyze a full AI season... any input is welcome.

[DaSilva9]

Thats a great idea.

It would be great if some one could create a skin mod that numbered the sliders in the players side of the tactics screen so one could determine the settings much faster.

[srinath]

can u plz post villareal's tactic??

[JJ919]

Just wanted to bump up this thread to see if anybody's made progress with the topic.

[Kamil-S]

In my next season, I'am going to try and create a spreadsheet and follow the different tactics the AI uses throughout the season. The plan will be to follow a big club like Man U, a mid table club and a club looking to battle relegation, and also a club that plays with a "very fluid" mentality as it seems they employ different strategies for defensive ties. Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome. Anybody else who has been copying tactics can that can add some input, please do so. My hope is that I can narrow the copying of tactics down to a couple sliders so I can quickly figure out strategy and roles, without spending a lot of time looking through every slider.

eg. Mentality = philosophy and starting strategy

Run from deep = difference between CM and ST

Wide play = Wide players.

Anyways, I hope to set up a spread sheet to analyze a full AI season... any input is welcome.

http://www.filesonic.com/file/82724427/team_squad.xml

With this panel, reading opponent's tactics should be easier. Just create 'panels' folder in 'My Documents\Sports Interactive' and copy downloaded 'team_squad.xml' to 'My Documents\Sports Interactive\panels\'. After restarting FM, select any playable team and from 'Views' menu choose 'Debug'.

[kev08]

With this panel, reading opponent's tactics should be easier. Just create 'panels' folder in 'My Documents\Sports Interactive' and copy downloaded 'team_squad.xml' to 'My Documents\Sports Interactive\panels\'. After restarting FM, select any playable team and from 'Views' menu choose 'Debug'.

can you upload it somewhere else not letting me download

[Lahaka]

I was wondering if someone would be so kind and upload the Man Utd 4-4-2 that they use at home. I can't see how they can use the one, without tweaks, which is uploaded here because I've tried it myself with Chelsea and it is not as solid as when the AI uses it.

[Kamil-S]

With this panel, reading opponent's tactics should be easier. Just create 'panels' folder in 'My Documents\Sports Interactive' and copy downloaded 'team_squad.xml' to 'My Documents\Sports Interactive\panels\'. After restarting FM, select any playable team and from 'Views' menu choose 'Debug'.

can you upload it somewhere else not letting me download

http://www.gamefront.com/files/20009540/team_squad_xml

team squad.xml

[kev08]

cheers mate

[kev08]

sorry for being annoying where is the views menu?

[Kamil-S]

sorry for being annoying where is the views menu?

Top-right corner of team squad list, between 'Selection' and 'Show Filters' buttons (on default skin). Just remember to wait for a first match of the AI's team before checking tactic...

[loughranb]

I am very interested in seeing the 4-2-1-2-1 (with DMs) that the AI uses as Man City and Wigan. I have tried to create one and while it limits the opposition to long shots and no cccs I am struggling at the top end of the pitch

Thanks in advance

[Kamil-S]

I am very interested in seeing the 4-2-1-2-1 (with DMs) that the AI uses as Man City and Wigan. I have tried to create one and while it limits the opposition to long shots and no cccs I am struggling at the top end of the pitch

Thanks in advance

Wigan vs Sunderland (away):

Team instructions: fluid, defensive, everything else on default.

GK: goalkeeper/defend;

DR: fullback/defend;

DCR: central defender/defend;

DCL: central defender/defend;

DL: fullback/defend;

DMCR: defensive midfielder/defend;

DMCL: defensive midfielder/support;

MC: ball-winning midfielder/support;

AMR: inside forward/attack;

AML: defensive winger/attack;

FC: target-man/support.

Wigan vs Blackburn (home):

Team instructions: fluid, control, more cautious tackling, everything else on default.

GK: goalkeeper/defend;

DR: fullback/support;

DCR: central defender/defend;

DCL: ball-playing defender/defend;

DL: fullback/support;

DMCR: defensive midfielder/defend;

DMCL: defensive midfielder/support;

MC: ball-winning midfielder/support;

AMR: inside forward/attack;

AML: advanced playmaker/attack;

FC: target-man/support.

[loughranb]

Thanks mate, going to have a play with his as the formation lets in a stupidly small amount of goals - just a shame clean sheets don't win prizes!

[Kamil-S]

Thanks mate, going to have a play with his as the formation lets in a stupidly small amount of goals - just a shame clean sheets don't win prizes!

Try deeper positioned wingers (AMR->MR, AML->ML) - maybe they are isolated from ball in effect of tight marked MC. Look at AI Barcelona's 4-1-4-1 with lone striker (advanced forward/attack) - this tactic produces good amount of goals despite a huge gap between midfield and FC. MR/ML as wingers with attack duty and wideplay set to normal and MC as box2box midfielder (optionally with runs from deep to often and dual defensive midfielders behind him on support) should help you getting more goals (and concede more at other side).

[m83]

I would really like to see AI tactics of A.C. Milan under Allegri point of wiew, is 4-3-1-2 formation (home and away)

Im sorry for my poor english and thanks for any tips

By the way, i tried the "panels" trick of Kamil S and i dont seem to be able of making it work, any sugestion(s) would also be aprreciated.

[paganizer]

I would also like to see how the Chile / Bielsa tactic looks.

In my game it's a 3-4-3 and Chile is number 1 in South America WC Qualifyers (5 of 5 won - 13-4)

[Kamil-S]

I would really like to see AI tactics of A.C. Milan under Allegri point of wiew, is 4-3-1-2 formation (home and away)

Im sorry for my poor english and thanks for any tips

By the way, i tried the "panels" trick of Kamil S and i dont seem to be able of making it work, any sugestion(s) would also be aprreciated.

Disable 'Use Skin Cache' and enable 'Always Reload Skin On Confirm' in game's Preferences->Display&Sound - this could help if you don't see 'Debug' on team squad views list.

[Kamil-S]

I was wondering if someone would be so kind and upload the Man Utd 4-4-2 that they use at home. I can't see how they can use the one, without tweaks, which is uploaded here because I've tried it myself with Chelsea and it is not as solid as when the AI uses it.

If you downloaded ManUtd tactic posted by CapEm, change MC with Adv.Playmaker role to Ball Winning Midfielder/Defend and FC with Deep Lying Forward role to Advanced Forward/Attack. I have noticed only this two differences, team instructions (fluid, control, more creativity freedom) are the same.

http://www.gamefront.com/files/20011560/3-4-3+Bielsa.tac

[m83]

Thanks Kamil-S, but i dont know if i have to use te Skin default of fm 2011, or i can use any other?and by disable you mean no cache, isn it and enabel is whit cache?

Im sorry but my english isn t the best and its been some time since i have actually wrighted someting, thanks in advance. Im a huge fan of A.C. Milan and i cant seem hable of replicating there type of play this year. Any help would be great.l

I also forgot to mentioned that i have fm 2011 whit the latest patch 11.2.1 and i use portuguese as language and dont have english as anhoter choice, i dont know if that could be a problem, thanks again and sorry for the trouble.

[Kamil-S]

Thanks Kamil-S, but i dont know if i have to use te Skin default of fm 2011, or i can use any other?and by disable you mean no cache, isn it and enabel is whit cache?

Im sorry but my english isn t the best and its been some time since i have actually wrighted someting, thanks in advance. Im a huge fan of A.C. Milan and i cant seem hable of replicating there type of play this year. Any help would be great.l

I also forgot to mentioned that i have fm 2011 whit the latest patch 11.2.1 and i use portuguese as language and dont have english as anhoter choice, i dont know if that could be a problem, thanks again and sorry for the trouble.

Just make sure you have unticked option 'Usa a cache da skin' (in your version) - i tested this on default skin and singular ex -> work for both. Skin cache must be disabled beacause it allow the game to use a temporary copy of panels which override my modified version.

http://www.gamefront.com/files/20011935/4_3_1_2_Milan_vs_Lazio__1_0__tac

[m83]

Kamil-S:

Thank you for your time and patience, im actually at work and i will try this later. Just one more quick question, when you say "go to any team playable", are you saying to go to "team squad" or directly to "tactics" and then go to views?and i copied the panels folder under My Documents\Sports Interactive\Football Manager 2011\ because i still have the olders version of football manager.

Sorry for beeing such anoying and thanks in advance.

[Kamil-S]

Kamil-S:

Thank you for your time and patience, im actually at work and i will try this later. Just one more quick question, when you say "go to any team playable", are you saying to go to "team squad" or directly to "tactics" and then go to views?

Panel works only on team squad but the logic of viewing AI tactics is a little bit complicated. You can also see tactic of unplayable team but under two conditions: 1. Team has manager (AI or humam - just check if manager name exists in 'Information->Staff' view); 2. You have loaded Full Details (Nivel de Detalhe) of competition (league, international or cup) that your team plays (for example: AC Milan - you need to have Serie A loaded to check AC Milan's league tactics. Just wait for a first league match of Milan and if you see result of this match in Milan's fixtures go to team squad and open my custom view).

Kamil-S:

and i copied the panels folder under My Documents\Sports Interactive\Football Manager 2011\ because i still have the olders version of football manager.

If you create new folder named "Panels" in path mentioned above and copy here modified "team squad.xml" it only affects Football Manager 2011.

[m83]

Kamil-S: Thanks for the patience, i have tried what you have said, and in what you said is "custom view" in portuguese is "personalizado", then i have three options: 1- "gerir vistas" (manage/choose view); 2- "configurar vista actual" (set actual view); 3- "criar cópia de vista corrente" (create copy of the current view), and in all the options that i have mentionned i dont seem to find your "debug" option, its maybe a problem of language, i dont know. Anyway thanks for all the help, i will continue to trie and see if i can make it work.

[m83]

I just wanted to say that the A.C. Milan tactic his doing very well, as i am using it in my save, two games and 4-2 against Chievo in italy cup and 3-0 against sampdoria, i will continue using it and see how it goes.

One thing, i just had assumed that beeing italian style of play the philosophy would be rigid, and i seem to have all the players role wrong, so its great to have a new look of how AI looks at the game, especially in A.C. Milan style by Allegri.

Just one last request, i assume that beeing control the strategy at home used by AI in Milan view, it would be counter or defensive away?sine i cant make it work i would really like some help

thanks in advance.

[Lahaka]

If you downloaded ManUtd tactic posted by CapEm, change MC with Adv.Playmaker role to Ball Winning Midfielder/Defend and FC with Deep Lying Forward role to Advanced Forward/Attack. I have noticed only this two differences, team instructions (fluid, control, more creativity freedom) are the same.

http://www.gamefront.com/files/20011560/3-4-3+Bielsa.tac

That's the one, yes. Thanks alot! Will try to modify the tactics with these instructions and see how it goes. Thanks again for your help.

[...Eternal Sin...]

i looking for juventus and tottenham tactic

[Kamil-S]

Kamil-S: Thanks for the patience, i have tried what you have said, and in what you said is "custom view" in portuguese is "personalizado", then i have three options: 1- "gerir vistas" (manage/choose view); 2- "configurar vista actual" (set actual view); 3- "criar cópia de vista corrente" (create copy of the current view), and in all the options that i have mentionned i dont seem to find your "debug" option, its maybe a problem of language, i dont know. Anyway thanks for all the help, i will continue to trie and see if i can make it work.

It's in the main 'View' list, not in sublist 'Custom'. Just look at 'Vistas' and seek position between 'Transferencia' and ' Situacao Jogadores da Formacao do Clube'. If you don't see 'Debug' try changing to another skin and seek again.

AC Milan away tactic

Juve home tactic

IFK Goteborg home tactic

[kenek]

I wonder if it would be possible to fix IFK Göteborg and leeds tactics? really appreciate it

[m83]

Kamil-S, thanks for all you help, but one last request, can you please upload the tactic A.C. Milan away in another server,seems i cant download it.

Thakns again.

P.S- i made the download, it seemed to be a problem with my own internet conection, sorry.

[kenek]

Kamil-s thank you very mutch for IFK Gotenborg tactic... appreciate it..

[rotfleo]

kamil i cant see the debug too...can you post a screenshot of this ''view'' pls? thx

[Kamil-S]

In panels folder from screenshot #2 you need only "team squad.xml" to make "debug" view works - the rest of panels here have another roles (numered sliders, reading AI tactic on-fly/on-match etc.)

[rotfleo]

really really thx man !

[m83]

Hi Kamil-S, since i tried everything you have told me and i steel cant see the "debug" option, i think that i may need the language file in english, since i bought the game in a portuguese store i only have two options: portuguese or italiano.

Any sugestions where i can found this english file?thanks

[Zigi]

Hi Kamil-S, since i tried everything you have told me and i steel cant see the "debug" option, i think that i may need the language file in english, since i bought the game in a portuguese store i only have two options: portuguese or italiano.

Any sugestions where i can found this english file?thanks

rename this file from "team_squad" to "team squad" and paste into panels folder in you currently used skin then reload this skin. U should have "debug" option(or smth similar) under view tab on team squad screen.

[Kamil-S]

Hi Kamil-S, since i tried everything you have told me and i steel cant see the "debug" option, i think that i may need the language file in english, since i bought the game in a portuguese store i only have two options: portuguese or italiano.

Any sugestions where i can found this english file?thanks

I have multilanguage version and it works on portuguese too. Try download a skin Singular EX (all credits to ZeeBuzer) in which I implemented some edited panels (works only for PC version):

http://www.gamefront.com/files/20014516/singular_ex.zip

[Kamil-S]

rename this file from "team_squad" to "team squad" and paste into panels folder in you currently used skin then reload this skin. U should have "debug" option(or smth similar) under view tab on team squad screen.

Stupid gamefront changed filename from "team squad.xml" to "team_squad.xml" and stupid me didn't notice this. Thanks Zigi.

[m83]

Zigi, you are the best, its working!!!

And Kamil-S Very nice job on this marvelous tool, thanks

[Zigi]

I'm glad i could help. just wondering if it is possible to have numbers instead of sliders under this "debug view". Probably not.

[m83]

yes, that would help quit a bit,from what i see it goes from 1 to 17 clicks, but im steel triyung to understand it and how people seemed to replicate this information into starting strategy, pilhosophy, players roles, etc...