South American Football > European Football

[Venn]

Just curious, would Ecuador play their home matches in Quito? In that case every European team has a chance of losing, even if Ecuador wouldn't qualify. That's what Argie and Brazil have to deal with too, you know.

[Razzler]

Pushing it on Scotland there

[bomma]

Pushing it on Scotland there

Yeah, should beat them with ease. Wales then.

[football_master_94]

Pushing it on Scotland there

Of course. A good side, could beat Ecuador without any problems

[gunner4eva]

Ecuador really aren't good at all. - not even close to it.

[football_master_94]

Just blind patriotism driving Uquillas to argue the point that Ecuador are better than teams located in the Top 20 in the world based on ELO rankings and FIFA rankings

[bomma]

Replace patriotism with idiocy and ignorance.

[football_master_94]

Fair enough. Use of patriotism in the sense that he only refers to Ecuador.

Despite how bad the ranking system may be, Ecuador are ranked 44 in the world so....

[Worcester City Researcher]

Just curious, would Ecuador play their home matches in Quito? In that case every European team has a chance of losing, even if Ecuador wouldn't qualify. That's what Argie and Brazil have to deal with too, you know.

You've obviously never been to Skopje, Podgorica, Almaty or Istanbul then?

[Qolumbo]

I checked how European and South American teams compare on my own (computer generated) national team ranking. I've removed all other teams, but matches involving them still count, of course. Note that this is based on quality without home advantage, i.e. how well the teams would do on a neutral venue.

[b]1 Brazil[/b]
2 Spain
3 Germany
4 Netherlands
[b]5 Argentina[/b]
6 Portugal
7 England
8 France
9 Italy
10 Croatia
[b]11 Uruguay[/b]
12 Denmark
13 Czech Republic
14 Turkey
15 Republic of Ireland
16 Sweden
17 Serbia
18 Switzerland
19 Romania
20 Ukraine
21 Norway
[b]22 Paraguay[/b]
[b]23 Chile[/b]
24 Russia
[b]25 Colombia[/b]
26 Greece
27 Poland
28 Slovakia
29 Slovenia
30 Bosnia-Herzegovina
31 Bulgaria
[b]32 Ecuador[/b]
33 Belarus
34 Wales
35 Finland
[b]36 Venezuela[/b]
37 Israel
38 FYR Macedonia
39 Hungary
40 Austria
[b]41 Peru[/b]
42 Latvia
43 Montenegro
44 Northern Ireland
45 Lithuania
46 Scotland
47 Belgium
48 Albania
49 Georgia
50 Iceland
51 Moldova
[b]52 Bolivia[/b]
53 Cyprus
54 Armenia
55 Estonia
56 Kazakhstan
57 Azerbaijan
58 Faroe Islands
59 Luxembourg
60 Malta
61 Liechtenstein
62 Andorra
63 San Marino

[Venn]

You've obviously never been to Skopje, Podgorica, Almaty or Istanbul then?

Tbh I haven't even heard of most of those places

[Tele Santana]

Qolumbo,

I find rather odd to see Paraguay below those teams you placed...Switzerland, Norway raised both eyebrows and I do believe they´re better than the likes of Ukraine and some others at this stage.

Not really a fair account, imo. You were right though in putting Chile and Paraguay close to each other. I think they are indeed very close.

And yes, Wales could beat the Ecuador team easily... (ironic mode /off)

Cheers,

Tele

[georginho_juventusygr]

Seven pages? :respect:

[football_master_94]

You've obviously never been to Skopje, Podgorica, Almaty or Istanbul then?

Been to Skopje and Podgorica, nice to visit but nothing special

[georginho_juventusygr]

Let's see how Uquillas still can prove his point.

2002:

first round: Uruguay, Slovenia, Portugal, Poland, Croatia, Ecuador, Russia

second round: Paraguay, Republic of Ireland, Denmark, Belgium, Sweden

semifinal: Turkey

2006:

first round: Poland, Paraguay, Serbia and Montenegro, Czech Republic, Croatia

second round: Sweden, Switzerland, Ecuador

quarterfinal: Ukraine

semifinal: Portugal

[Uquillas]

double post

[Uquillas]

Let's see how Uquillas still can prove his point.

2002:

first round: Uruguay, Slovenia, Portugal, Poland, Croatia, Ecuador, Russia

second round: Paraguay, Republic of Ireland, Denmark, Belgium, Sweden

semifinal: Turkey

2006:

first round: Poland, Paraguay, Serbia and Montenegro, Czech Republic, Croatia

second round: Sweden, Switzerland, Ecuador

quarterfinal: Ukraine

semifinal: Portugal

In fact here is a list of Ecuador vs European Teams (outside the top 6) from the past 10 years.

316. 12-Feb-02 Breda, Neth. 1-0 Turkey

318. 27-Mar-02 New Jersey, USA 3-0 Bulgaria

320. 08-May-02 New Jersey, USA 1-0 Yugoeslavia

324. 13-Jun-02 Yokohama, Jap. 1-0 Croatia XVII. World Cup

328. 09-Feb-03 Guayaquil 1-0 Estonia

329. 12-Feb-03 Quito 2-1 Estonia

367. 13-Nov-05 Barcelona, Spa. 0-3 Poland

374. 28-May-06 Getafe, Spa. 1-2 Macedonia

375. 09-Jun-06 Gelsenkirchen, Ger. 2-0 Poland XVIII. World Cup

381. 18-Jan-07 Cuenca 2-1 Sweden

382. 21-Jan-07 Quito 1-1 Sweden

385. 23-May-07 New Jersey, USA 1-1 Ireland

Games Played: 12

Victories: 8

Ties: 2

Defeats: 2

cheers mate

[georginho_juventusygr]

What did you want to prove there?

[Worcester City Researcher]

What did you want to prove there?

On the whole non-competitive International Friendlies carry far far more gravitas and importance than a tiny insignificant tinpot tournament called the "World Cup"?

[Uquillas]

On the whole non-competitive International Friendlies carry far far more gravitas and importance than a tiny insignificant tinpot tournament called the "World Cup"?

so which is it, friendlies don't count because they don't have enough importance, or WC games don't count because croatia and poland sucked?

[Uquillas]

Just curious, would Ecuador play their home matches in Quito? In that case every European team has a chance of losing, even if Ecuador wouldn't qualify. That's what Argie and Brazil have to deal with too, you know.

Argentina was about one second of losing to Ecuador in Buenos Aires, I don't think that's located at 2800mt above sea level.

[georginho_juventusygr]

so which is it, friendlies don't count because they don't have enough importance, or WC games don't count because croatia and poland sucked?

The most important thing that you have to see is that South American representatives, except Brazil and Argentina, didn't advance to the quarterfinals in 2002 and 2006 unlike their European counterparts.

As I stated before:

no good performances = no extra berth

[Uquillas]

The most important thing that you have to see is that South American representatives, except Brazil and Argentina, didn't advance to the quarterfinals in 2002 and 2006 unlike their European counterparts.

As I stated before:

no good performances = no extra berth

13 teams = 13 chances

4.5 teams= 4.5 chances

[georginho_juventusygr]

13 teams = 13 chances

4.5 teams= 4.5 chances

It doesn't matter, though, does it?

Brazil and Argentina could do it. Uruguay is in the semifinal now.

If Ecuador are good, they are good. If Sweden are good, they are good.

Ecuador missed out? They aren't good enough. Sweden missed out? They aren't good enough either.

I repeat my questions:

Give me one World Cup edition after 1982 where South American representatives outside Brazil and Argentina did better than their European counterparts.

[Uquillas]

It doesn't matter, though, does it?

Brazil and Argentina could do it. Uruguay is in the semifinal now.

If Ecuador are good, they are good. If Sweden are good, they are good.

Ecuador missed out? They aren't good enough. Sweden missed out? They aren't good enough either.

And as we saw in this WC, ALL SA teams advanced the first round.

[Jamos5000]

Give them 10 places, then they'll have 10 chances. Plus there'll be no need to bother with any of that silly qualification business

[tcoleman1]

Is this argument still going on

It's fine as it is tbh. The size of the continents/footballing ability our the main things. Europe is the largets continent and also the best/joint best in terms of footballing ability.

[BigRoboCrouch]

European football >>>>> SA football

Facts:4 Euro teams in the 2006 WC semis,3 Euro teams in the 2010 WC semis,Argentina(2nd best SA nation)hasnt reached the semis since 1990.

Thread over.

[georginho_juventusygr]

And as we saw in this WC, ALL SA teams advanced the first round.

God forbid, fair enough. So, will you ask for six representatives out of available ten?

1 (Brazil) + 4.5 + 1 = 6.5

And the one who will get the playoff ticket may also win it. So, seven representatives out of available ten. Who will they be?

Brazil

Chile

Paraguay

Argentina

Uruguay

Ecuador

Colombia

Leaving Venezuela, Bolivia, and Peru at home.

What were the previous best performances of Chile, Paraguay, Ecuador, and Colombia compared to European football associations?

One World Cup doesn't mean that one particular team is always good, does it?

Croatia were great in 1998. An extra berth? No.

Turkey were great in 2002. An extra berth? No.

Even South Korea advanced far in 2002 (despite controversies). An extra berth? No.

Portugal advanced far in 2006. An extra berth? No.

Oh, I forgot:

Senegal played well in 2002. An extra berth? No.

[Uquillas]

God forbid, fair enough. So, will you ask for six representatives out of available ten?

1 (Brazil) + 4.5 + 1 = 6.5

And the one who will get the playoff ticket may also win it. So, seven representatives out of available ten. Who will they be?

Brazil

Chile

Paraguay

Argentina

Uruguay

Ecuador

Colombia

Leaving Venezuela, Bolivia, and Peru at home.

What were the previous best performances of Chile, Paraguay, Ecuador, and Colombia compared to European football associations?

One World Cup doesn't mean that one particular team is always good, does it?

Croatia were great in 1998. An extra berth? No.

Turkey were great in 2002. An extra berth? No.

Even South Korea advanced far in 2002 (despite controversies). An extra berth? No.

Portugal advanced far in 2006. An extra berth? No.

Oh, I forgot:

Senegal played well in 2002. An extra berth? No.

that's why you still get to send 12 teams instead of 13

[georginho_juventusygr]

that's why you still get to send 12 teams instead of 13

Why should it be from Europe?

Why not from North America as Honduras was disappointing?

Why not from Africa as the host was disappointing?

Why not from Asia as North Korea let seven goals in against Portugal?

See? Your arguments have no base. Get over it, Uquillas. If Ecuador aren't good enough anymore, they have to wait until 2014. The same goes for Ireland, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Jamaica.

Oh, Egypt don't complain despite they are surely better than North Korea, eh?

[football_master_94]

Why should it be from Europe?

Why not from North America as Honduras was disappointing?

Why not from Africa as the host was disappointing?

Why not from Asia as North Korea let seven goals in against Portugal?

See? Your arguments have no base. Get over it, Uquillas. If Ecuador aren't good enough anymore, they have to wait until 2014. The same goes for Ireland, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Jamaica.

Oh, Egypt don't complain despite they are surely better than North Korea, eh?

Don't waste your brain cells trying to reason with him, like I've said he is blinded by ignorance

[Venn]

Argentina was about one second of losing to Ecuador in Buenos Aires, I don't think that's located at 2800mt above sea level.

No need to even ask what his point is here.

wtf

[T-IceMan]

Can't Uquillas have Ecuador move to UEFA? Then he will get proof that his team will be beaten quite a lot in the European qualifications .

[cms186]

13 teams = 13 chances

4.5 teams= 4.5 chances

So Slovenia had an equal chance of getting to the Quarter finals as Brazil did? like to see you get those odds at the bookies

[roseboy64]

If the South American teams are obviously better than European teams then every WC all of them should get through to the second round. More European teams shouldn't matter if they're better.

[Razzler]

Not too many 'all-South American' matches in the World Cups either

[Tele Santana]

Razzler,

Brazil faced SA teams in elimination/decisive matches quite a bit in the history of the World Cup...

If I recall well:

1950 - Uruguay in the final match

1962 - Chile in the semis

1970 - Peru in the quarterfinals

1970 - Uruguay in the semis

1974 - Argentina in the second phase

1978 - Argentina in the second phase

1982 - Argentina in the second phase

1990 - Argentina in the round of 16

1998 - Chile in the round of 16

2010 - Chile in the round of 16

9 World Cups out of 19 - almost 50% of the tournaments Brazil played, it either qualified or was disqualified by a South American peer.

I think it´s more usual than it appears to be, especially given some facts like a single representative from South America in 1934, just two in 1938, etc.

Cheers,

Tele

[neutral]

Well, looks like no SA teams in WC final, again...

[masteR+_+]

Someone close this thread already ffs

[copyprotection]

Cut the small talk... Remove the teams that have already won a World Cup from the competition and South America would never win the cup again. That's about it.

Hmmm, look, the orange ones just knocked the blue ones out. Guess that's another WC for Europe.

BTW, have not been following this regularly, but i'm just in awe with Equador's football power. But guess what, in Europe Equador would probably be on the level with the baltic republics and would almost surely not qualify. Maybe in North America... Well, maybe not, maybe Asia...

[masteR+_+]

Baltic republics? Are you 13?

[georginho_juventusygr]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Republics :o

[masteR+_+]

I know who they are ffs, I have attended school.

Do you really think those no-hopers are on Ecuador's level? If you do, then you really know nothing about football.

[georginho_juventusygr]

I know who they are ffs, I have attended school.

Do you really think those no-hopers are on Ecuador's level? If you do, then you really know nothing about football.

Heh, calm down.

[Tele Santana]

copyprotection,

Remove any of the European teams from the ones that already were crowned with the addition of Netherlands and Spain and I´d say they are not more likely than Chile to win. Croatia you guys are talking about? Russia? Come on...

You guys are sometimes so biased you don´t understand some basics. Greece won European Championships in 2004 and they are lame. Czechs won it in 1976 and couldn´t even qualify to 1978. Or for that matter, didn´t do it in 1974 as well.

By the way, the Scottish team that beat those Czechs twice didn´t go too far in the susequent World Cups, and used to play a football as dull as how you like to pinpoint Paraguay playing nowadays - like this is not done by Switzerland, Greece, etc.

At least the Baltic stuff made me laugh. In basketball they´d kill Ecuador.

Cheers,

Tele

[joe__the__man]

I'm 100% sure he's the only one with the Baltic opinion, fwiw.

[Meitheisman]

The amount of bias on both sides of the argument is so ridiculous that I refuse to participate in this debate but it certainly was a funny read.

fwiw I'd love to see a "best-of-the-rest WC" where each confederation would send the 4 teams it thinks were the best but missed out (with an automatic WC qualif for the winner) That way we could see Russia, Scotland and Sweden play Ecuador, Peru and Colombia for competitive games and see what happens.

[Jamos5000]

You're being pretty generous to Scotland there, Meith

[Tele Santana]

Meithesman,

You´re not that far off my idea of having an unified qualifying round after the best from each continent claim their tickets.

It would be really fun to see those match-ups unfold beyond (before actually) the Finals and a more fair system, I believe.

Cheers,

Tele