Corner Routine "Cheat" Discussion **WARNING: SPOILER**

Although it is not determined whether there is a corner routine bug, threads describing how the ME can be broken/challenged via certain corner settings will be moved to the bugs forum. This forum is for legitimate tactical discussion and the sharing of downloadable tactics, not a discussion of ME breaking bugs.

If you know of a routine that is creating too many goals, please post the details in the ME bugs forum. Thank you.

Simply because we believe trying to exploit the match engine via use of any bugs...

...is an epic fail!

Note: If you're uploading/discussing tactics, please try to avoid using any known bugs or exploits. It doesn't really help people learn how to play the game. Also, a lot believe such things remove the fun of playing the game.

Ok, for those of you that wish to discuss using this "magical" corner routine, this is the thread to do it.

Please note, that if you want to upload and share tactics using this routine, then do it here and here only.

If I spot any tactics or threads using the routine, then I will move/merge them here.

thankyou does anyone know how to get as many corners as possible would be a good start

from wingers maybe ?

Thanks, heathxxx.

First, we need the tactic. This gives me the most hilarious results: http://community.sigames.com/showpost.php?p=4914297&postcount=31

Width is the most important thing really. In real-life most corners are won when wingers or full-backs hit the ball off defenders or midfielders out for a corner. Anything that aggressively tries to cross deep with width will be more likely to win lots of corners in general rather than a 4-1-2-1-2, for example.

Although it is not determined whether there is a corner routine bug

Sorry?

Is this a joke?

I think it's very well determined, from what I saw on this forum and from my game too.

The question is another, how SI could have created this one?

I mean, this bug was not present up to patch 10.2, what were they trying to do?

I don't think there was any issues with the corner setup.

So far.

well lets try set this tactic up guys

lets create some high scoring tactic

Sorry?

Is this a joke?

I think it's very well determined, from what I saw on this forum and from my game too.

The question is another, how SI could have created this one?

I mean, this bug was not present up to patch 10.2, what were they trying to do?

I don't think there was any issues with the corner setup.

So far.

If you've ever been involved with beta testing in a project that's as complex, contains as many potential variables as the match engine in this game, then you would also know that when you make changes to one aspect of the code, it can present another, which could be completely unexpected.

Sometimes these side-effect "bugs" slip under the radar. I don't for one minute believe that it was intentional. Nobody will have set out to create a bug. It's simply the side-effect of changes to other areas.

down both flanks it has to be and as wide as possible really wingers and full backs have gotta be prioraty

If you've ever been involved with beta testing in a project that's as complex, contains as many potential variables as the match engine in this game, then you would also know that when you make changes to one aspect of the code, it can present another, which could be completely unexpected.

Sometimes these side-effect "bugs" slip under the radar. I don't for one minute believe that it was intentional. Nobody will have set out to create a bug. It's simply the side-effect of changes to other areas.

Of course I wasn't saying it was intentional, but even if I have been playing this game since, I think, 15 years, I can't remember a major bug, like this one, introduced by a patch.

Could you?

Of course I wasn't saying it was intentional, but even if I have been playing this game since, I think, 15 years, I can't remember a major bug, like this one, introduced by a patch.

Could you?

A patch 2 years ago for Warcraft III fixed a couple of bugs - and also somehow blocked everyone from accessing Battle.net (the online part of the game). Blizzard rushed out a new patch just to fix that.

Bugs happen all the time.

A patch 2 years ago for Warcraft III fixed a couple of bugs - and also somehow blocked everyone from accessing Battle.net (the online part of the game). Blizzard rushed out a new patch just to fix that.

Bugs happen all the time.

Ok, but I was talking about CM/FM series.

I hope they could fix this.

Whilst I am not partuculary interested in using an exploit, I would love to be able to defend against it if the AI ( unintentionally) uses it so I will follow this thread closely to see what you come up with.

From what I've seen so far, plus speaking to some other people, I don't believe this is something the AI would use intentionally or unintentionally. Looking at the settings, they're specific user created. The AI isn't at a stage where it can copy what the user does, so I doubt it will be a problem.

I have seen the AI pull the corner to the player on the edge of the box a few times today, clever they are

From what I've seen so far, plus speaking to some other people, I don't believe this is something the AI would use intentionally or unintentionally. Looking at the settings, they're specific user created. The AI isn't at a stage where it can copy what the user does, so I doubt it will be a problem.

Probably not. In my current save, the AI player that are supposed to attack the near corner often gets the ball to his feet( unmarked) in the specific area mentioned. As the AI often uses a clumsy Center back at this position, they rarely score from it, but they do get these chances every 3rd corner.

I also get these situation about every 3rd corner but as its my Clumsy DC that attacks near post...

I've not conceded from it at all, so it is more than possible to defend. The AI doesn't use anything close to the exploit set up anyway. It might hit a ball to the edge of the box on occasion, but it is not doing it in a way that creates massive holes.

Although i'll respect Heath's decision to turn this thread into a discussion, I'm very unsure about whether the tactics forum should be hosting such debates. The routine is a bug and has nothing to do with understanding the tactical parameters of the game. Unlike previous exploits, it completely undermines the AI to the extent it is helpless.

This forum is supposed to help users understand the tactical, training and man-management aspects of the game. It is not supposed to help users break the ME. Whereas it has in the past focused on developing tactics that do so (i.e. Diablo), its current incarnation very much looks at trying to help users play and win their games within the standard tactical parameters available to the AI. The corner routine undermines all the effort people are putting in to threads and tactics that support this.

I'm disinclined to allow corner routine threads for two reasons

1: At some indeterminate future point it will be fixed. No single user that has employed it will have learnt anything about the game by doing so. They will then re-enter frustration when it goes. This is in full opposition to the purpose of this forum, which is to facilitate the understanding of long-term play.

2: It is a bug and thus belongs in the bugs forum. SI have a forum that supports bugs already, so why should T&TT have to do so as well? Any other ME bug gets reported there, not here. Just because this one allows you to win easily, does that mean we should therefore treat it differently?

I think it should be allowed to be discussed in the tactics section. Why not treat people like adults and let them discuss what they like?

why didnt you closded threads using really narrow formations and on overload the exploited the me

i think people should be allowed to use it , shouldnt stop them from sharing the tactic even if it exploits a tiny little corner thing in the game people may see it as a easier way of being fun instead of being stressed out ..

i for one are sick of the computer scoring 30yarders past me if there was a way to get back at them wouldnt that be even

i think people should be allowed to use it , shouldnt stop them from sharing the tactic even if it exploits a tiny little corner thing in the game people may see it as a easier way of being fun instead of being stressed out ..

i for one are sick of the computer scoring 30yarders past me if there was a way to get back at them wouldnt that be even

I'm not against people sharing a tactic that contains the routine, just that they should post it in this thread if they want to share it. Some people don't want to use it, therefore posting it in the main area is misleading. Also, it really doesn't matter what tactic it's used with. It will still work.

Believe it or not, there are people who want to learn how to make tactics themselves, by looking at others people share. Quite simply, what do they learn from such a tactic, other than a way to cheat the ME? Nothing. When this particular flaw is resolved at some point, they're back to square one.

It's up to everyone how they play the game. I would argue that the majority of people who post on T&TT aren't particularly looking for a way to "cheat", they just want to understand more about tactics. I would also argue that FM10 has introduce a tactical interface that makes it easier than ever before to create decent tactics. It even highlights what the key attributes are for every role and position.

I've not conceded from it at all, so it is more than possible to defend. The AI doesn't use anything close to the exploit set up anyway. It might hit a ball to the edge of the box on occasion, but it is not doing it in a way that creates massive holes.

Although i'll respect Heath's decision to turn this thread into a discussion, I'm very unsure about whether the tactics forum should be hosting such debates. The routine is a bug and has nothing to do with understanding the tactical parameters of the game. Unlike previous exploits, it completely undermines the AI to the extent it is helpless.

This forum is supposed to help users understand the tactical, training and man-management aspects of the game. It is not supposed to help users break the ME. Whereas it has in the past focused on developing tactics that do so (i.e. Diablo), its current incarnation very much looks at trying to help users play and win their games within the standard tactical parameters available to the AI. The corner routine undermines all the effort people are putting in to threads and tactics that support this.

I'm disinclined to allow corner routine threads for two reasons

1: At some indeterminate future point it will be fixed. No single user that has employed it will have learnt anything about the game by doing so. They will then re-enter frustration when it goes. This is in full opposition to the purpose of this forum, which is to facilitate the understanding of long-term play.

2: It is a bug and thus belongs in the bugs forum. SI have a forum that supports bugs already, so why should T&TT have to do so as well? Any other ME bug gets reported there, not here. Just because this one allows you to win easily, does that mean we should therefore treat it differently?

what a load of bull, here I am trying to develop tactics and doing alright only to see that every time I get a 1 on 1 I miss, unlike ai that scores atleast 75% of the time.

No, I do not have the latest patch yet but, I've spent HRS trying to get things right. To get the game even close to RL we have to ''cheat'' as you call it.

Yeah i understand the misleading part of it all . .

id love to learn to make a tactic and understand the game engine , but everytime i make a tactic i feel is good the game batters me lol

i think alot of people who come to T&TT are looking for a tactic to upload and use themselfs which theres nothing wrong with that , kind of inspires people to want to make there own tactic ..

People seem to be misinterpreting what this forum is all about. It is about how to understand the tactical elements of FM. It is not about finding and employing bugs.

I'm not saying you can't discuss the corner bug anywhere on these forums. I just don't see what it has to do with tactics.

There's so many people on these forums who don't 'get' the tactical element of the game. Allowing open discussions of exploit bugs in this forum makes it much harder for us to actually explain how to play. It is perfectly possible to do very well at FM without resorting to a single exploit. Unfortunately, how to do so is obscured by exploit solutions that undermine the reason for this forum existing.

you say the tactical element of the came how can you do that if there is so many bugs to fix and your players wont do what you tell them to any way if its a bug

I'm sorry, but that is a user issue. I don't have any problems in getting my players to do what they are told. There are very few bugs in the game that significantly affect open play. If you can't get things to work, it is because you don't understand the tactical/man-managerial system, not because of bugs.

I don't have any issue with you wanting to exploit a bug. It's your game and you can play it how you wish. However, I do want to preserve the integrity of this forum. I'm also very unwilling to enter into debates positing that because certain users feel the AI cheats/the game has bugs, then the tactical forum should support exploitive methods of play to help them enjoy the game.

you say the tactical element of the came how can you do that if there is so many bugs to fix and your players wont do what you tell them to any way if its a bug

What are you trying to instruct a player to do, that they're not doing?

What bugs are you referring to, that prevent your players from following the tactical instructions available?

I'm not saying there aren't any bugs, just that I would be interested in more specific information from you. What do you see, that causes you problems with the game?

How about having about 65 % possesion all game but not being alble to have a shot on goal all game realistic thought thats how arsenal cant win the league

Again, it is tactical. Rather than simply complaining about stats, why don't you take some time to write up exactly what you are doing. That way, we can help you. Just posting stats doesn't get anybody anywhere.

Or how about when you go 2 - 0 up which i hate because it always turn the oppersion into world beaters i had one game i was dominating until bout 80 mins gone the ai first shot they scored thought okay oh then they scored there next 2 shots so why would i change my statagy if i was dominating and anyways when you do want to chang you have to wait for the ball to go out of play for it to change laughable. Ps the linesman point the wrong way on a throw in suppose common mistake to miss lol

"It is not supposed to help users break the ME."

I had to laugh at that.........can you "break" something that has more flaws than Canary Wharf?

what a load of bull, here I am trying to develop tactics and doing alright only to see that every time I get a 1 on 1 I miss, unlike ai that scores atleast 75% of the time.

No, I do not have the latest patch yet but, I've spent farkin HRS trying to get things right. To get the game even close to RL we have to farkin ''cheat'' as you call it.

Utter nonsense to be honest. Unrealistic corner routines are not necessary to get the game 'close to real life', and there's a reason for the swear filter, so simply mispelling the F-word is pretty desperate.

This forum is for legitimate tactical discussion and the sharing of downloadable tactics, not a discussion of ME breaking bugs. If you know of a routine that is creating too many goals, please post the details in the ME bugs forum. Thank you.

About time in fairness. Perhaps in due course all the moaning threads in GD can be moved to the bugs forum. After all, if someone complains about the game, it must surely be because they found a bug, no?

Or how about when you go 2 - 0 up which i hate because it always turn the oppersion into world beaters i had one game i was dominating until bout 80 mins gone the ai first shot they scored thought okay oh then they scored there next 2 shots so why would i change my statagy if i was dominating and anyways when you do want to chang you have to wait for the ball to go out of play for it to change laughable. Ps the linesman point the wrong way on a throw in suppose common mistake to miss lol

You would change your strategy because if you are dominating and/or score the AI is going to change things about and try and get back into the game.

When Tottenham beat Everton 2-1 last weekend, Harry Redknapp spoke about how 2-0 was a "dangerous scoreline" and how "the next goal was crucial". David Moyes spoke about how the "crucial miss" from Landon Donavon when Everton were "ontop" was the difference between 0 points and 3 points, not 0 points and 1 point, as he would have expected his team to go on and win from that goal.

Goals change games dramatically. It is not a simple case of "oh well they sneaked a goal, it's not very likely to happen again" but is instead a case of giving the opposition huge encouragement and huge belief that not only can they pull back a second goal, but score a third and win the game. Teams go from needing two goals for a draw to needing two goals for a win. The task is the same but the end result so much better, and this gives teams a huge lift.

All of this now exists in FM10 to a greater or lesser extent. These issues are now fundamental aspects of gameplay and are involved in every match. The AI is still not very clever in deconstructing your tactics, and the motivation mechanics are still very much +/-1 motivation for a goal depending on personality, but the fact is that these things are replicated in the game and ignoring them only brings frustration and disrguntlement and a tendency to "blame the game" for being broken when it is infact quite realistic.

Or how about when you go 2 - 0 up which i hate because it always turn the oppersion into world beaters i had one game i was dominating until bout 80 mins gone the ai first shot they scored thought okay oh then they scored there next 2 shots so why would i change my statagy if i was dominating and anyways when you do want to chang you have to wait for the ball to go out of play for it to change laughable. Ps the linesman point the wrong way on a throw in suppose common mistake to miss lol

Have you not considered that your opponents can change tactics, or that they might make substitutions?

For example, if you use opposition instructions at all, then would in not be fair to assume, that you might have set you DC to tight man mark a striker, he is replaced by another, yet you've not paused to set any opposition instructions for this substitute?

Something like my example, is in the hands of you the user, the manager. Granted, no tactical instruction is ever fool-proof, but if you respond to what's happening in a game and react accordingly, you stand a far better chance.

Another example, I see that one of my defenders is "Looking complacent". They've brought on a striker who seems to be playing well. It's past half-time, so I can't give the defender a "team-talk", but I can substitute him.

It's all in your hands.

Seriously, if there's things you don't "get" about the game, tactically or otherwise, there's no shame in asking for help. I'm not trying to be patronising, we all want to enjoy playing the game and seeking advice, reading some of the great posts in T&TT are good ways to go about it.

If all you want is a sure-fire way to win every game, that someone like Xerez with a poor squad will drub Barcelona every time, then I understand why an exploit might appeal. But surely, once you've won everything there is to win for a few seasons, what else is there left to do? The same thing with another team, using the same exploit? I don't know about you, but if that was the level of challenge I was faced with, I would soon get bored of it.

Utter nonsense to be honest. Unrealistic corner routines are not necessary to get the game 'close to real life', and there's a reason for the swear filter, so simply mispelling the F-word is pretty desperate.

I agree abot the f-word and I apologise.

I am not using the corner routine in question, but I do not understand why a moderator hammer down on those that do. (I have not implemented 10.3 yet)

I have a pretty good tactic, looks good and so on...players seems to like it, well they're happy. But the one on one's lol

I guess I should implement 10.3 asap but dont complain about unrealistic features when that is what ai seems to rely on.

Nobody is hammering down those employing the routine. Give me one example of where that has happened.

We are just stating the tactical forum will not support ME breaking routines as they are bug related, not tactics related. This is then met by the repeated argument that 'you just have to use this' because the ME is so bugged everywhere else and cheats users, which is simply not the case. Because of this dichotomy, the tactics forum struggles to do the job it is intended to perform, which is to educate users about FM's tactical settings/game play.

my 2cents worth:

I don't think this is a bug but rather a loophole. I categorise a bug as something that hampers the normal operation of the program - eg: if you click something twice, the game will crash or if you substitute a player less than 5 min, into the game, the game will crash - something like that, is a bug. And of course, the one bug that we all hate as gamers of FM - the memory crash dump - that is a bug.

Now, this corner thingy, yes, everyone want to exploit that - but after a while, if you are winning 10-0s all the time, you will lose interest and want to try something else. I mean it lose the challenge for you. People will move on and probably by that time, FM2011 is out, we will move on. Its akin to some people like to use cheats to play games...are using cheats a bug? No, the programmers purposely insert cheats to allow players to enjoy a game.

There are plenty of reasons why people want to play a game. While FM aims to simulate the soccer management - no matter how hard we try, one thing that programmers can never emulate is the randomness and thoughts and strategy of human brains and real life managers. In reality, there are teams that hit the ball to the lurking midfielders and they score from that distance - eg Paul Scholes. There is no need to clamp down on threads talking about this tactic exploit.

While there are some players that like the challenge of playing fair - there are also people who like to enjoy the game - and winning against computer is enjoying. Seriously if they want a normal playing field, play fair, etc, they would have became a real soccer manager or simply don't use the tactic.

The point I am putting across is, let us discuss and those who don't wish to use or employ it, just don't. No need to close off the threads.

Nice post ... but ...

We are not stopping people from discussing it. We are just closing threads in this forum relating to it, because we don't think it has anything to do with tactics, training or man-management. Therefore, we won't support threads about it, just as we wouldn't support threads about which players to buy or FM stories.

But its a corner tactic its in the tactis section of the game it shouD be in the tactics and training discussion

Then how many corner goals a season for a team is considered normal? 15-20, ok?

mmm so u look at stoke and rory delap bullet throw cant defend that can you

Anything between low double figures and 0.4 a game would be within acceptable parameters. 0.5 a game and above is beginning to push realism and approaching the realms of exploit rather than well-worked routines.

But its a corner tactic its in the tactis section of the game it should be in the tactics and training discussion

No, it is an ME flaw that can be exploited through certain settings. Nothing more than a win button, which is the anathema of this forum's ethos. Plus, you already know what it is. What else is there to discuss? 7-0 scoreline after 7-0 scoreline?

mmm so u look at stoke and rory delap bullet throw cant defend that can you

Non sequitur par excellence. Bravo!

Non sequitur par excellence. Bravo!

translate please

7-0 scoreline after 7-0 scoreline?

uve lost me so if you set up this corner routine it stops th other team from playing cool . so if i was sa braintree away to chelsea i would win 7 - 0 . no i wouldnt jesus theres 90 mins to be played ive got to try and get in there half and try and win corners first lol your jus saying this is a win win dont be so rediculous ok.

Non sequitur: The premise has no relation to the conclusion, e.g.:

Because a few real life teams have conceded goals from Rory Delap's long throws, the FM tactical forum should allow discussions on a corner routine that breaks the ME.

par exellence: Of fantastic quality

Bravo: Well done

uve lost me so if you set up this corner routine it stops th other team from playing cool . so if i was sa braintree away to chelsea i would win 7 - 0 . no i wouldnt jesus theres 90 mins to be played ive got to try and get in there half and try and win corners first lol your jus saying this is a win win dont be so rediculous ok.

I'm not going to have this discussion with you. If you want to use the routine, then do so. Just don't expect us to allow you to post up your fantastic results and achievements.

It is a bug that will, at some indeterminate future point, be fixed. It is not relevant to tactical debate.

it will be fixed for fm 2011 i know that