clarification from sports interactive

i have asked this question a few times and never really got a proper reply.

if i were to view my matches in extended mode knowing i am happy with my tatics am i certain to get the same result as watching in full mode.

i just get this feeling my tatics wont have the same effect.

your ideas would be good

thanks

from personal experience i believe that different modes give you different results.

case in point. this morning i was playing against liverpool away (i am sunderland) and after 5 mins i was already 2-0 down.

i was kind of late for work so i put the match to commentary as i thought i was going to get pounded. so i put the game on commentary without changing anything tactically and from the 10 minute onwards i'm all over liverpool and totally dominated until the 90th minute and the game ended 2-2.

i am sure that had i watch the key highlights i would have got destroyed.

rest assured though that SI will tell you that the outcome would be the same.

i really would love to believe that but my personal experiences suggest otherwise unfortunately.

It would probably be ebst for you to carry out an experiment of your own, and then tell us.

There's been a few times when i've been 3 or 4 nill down so i just stick it on commentary only, and what do you know, i've come back and drawn the game. I do get the feeling that the match engine changes ever so slightly on each setting.

The results should be the same. Matches are calculated in advance so it doesnt really matter if you watch the pitch or not.

a weird thing i noticed was that if i watched the "key highlights only" setting, i'd score loads of wondergoals, and often have 1 or 2 entries on goal of the month every month, but if i had commentary only i wouldn't have a single goal, and i kept the tactics and players the exact same!

The results should be the same. Matches are calculated in advance so it doesnt really matter if you watch the pitch or not.

that's not true. the game calculates the highlights before it shows them to speed up the flow of the game, but the calculated result you're talking about changes every time the user or AI makes a change, which means it's not random.

Fm has a funny way of making it seem as though it's conspiring against you, but it's probably just your selective memory piecing various examples together which might prove your point and ignoring all the other examples.

I once convinced myself that the opposition were more likely to score when I clicked to make a substitution. It was rubbish of course but my memory pieced together the few times it had happened and ignored all the hundreds of times it hadn't. :-)

There is only one match engine, and as far as I know it doesn't know how you are actually viewing the information it is creating, so would not change depending on the view.

That's my opinion anyways.

often the AI changes tactics after leading, regularely allowing the opponent to get back into the match without any changes. that could be the case.

otherwise, having played with all kinds of settings I would definitely say that there is no difference.

that's not true. the game calculates the highlights before it shows them to speed up the flow of the game, but the calculated result you're talking about changes every time the user or AI makes a change, which means it's not random.

But presumably the mechanism for calculating the result and AI changes should be the same no matter what mode the game is being played in?

There is no way on earth that SI would go to the trouble of implementing 4 different match engines, one for each mode of viewing the match! The viewing modes are just different windows into the same match - the more detail you have the more you can react to things so that will change the result obviously (or potentially at least), but not if you just sit there and make no changes at all for the full 90 minutes.

Giving 1 single example of a case where you conceded goals when watching key highlights, but scored them when in commentary only mode and claiming it to be evidence is ridiculous! People could claim all kinds of idiotic things in life if all you needed was one example and ignore all examples to the contrary!

But presumably the mechanism for calculating the result and AI changes should be the same no matter what mode the game is being played in?

yeh, i just meant that the match scoreline wasn't predicted before the match

The results should be the same. Matches are calculated in advance so it doesnt really matter if you watch the pitch or not.

that's not true. otherwise it would be useless to watch the games and make tactical changes during the game if the result is already calculated.

There is no way on earth that SI would go to the trouble of implementing 4 different match engines, one for each mode of viewing the match! The viewing modes are just different windows into the same match - the more detail you have the more you can react to things so that will change the result obviously (or potentially at least), but not if you just sit there and make no changes at all for the full 90 minutes.

Giving 1 single example of a case where you conceded goals when watching key highlights, but scored them when in commentary only mode and claiming it to be evidence is ridiculous! People could claim all kinds of idiotic things in life if all you needed was one example and ignore all examples to the contrary!

and who has given you the right to call me or anyone for that matter an idiot???

who made you the king of the castle??? i just gave my own views as it is in my right as a member of this forum!

grow up.

i just get the feeling that you tend to score more goals in exstended and key then you would watching the full match and im sure its the same for everyone ive got a funny feeling that if i played ten games on full mode then replayed the same ten with the same player if possible then my goal ratio would be very diffrent.

ive always watched the full match going back god knows how long and i know with the players i have and the tatics i use i kinda know what result im gonna get but while ive been playing in exstended mode the amount of goals and big result have increased

who says thats a bad thing but i do miss watching the full match but i dont miss how long it takes lol

thanks

I didn't call anyone an idiot, but don't let facts get in the way! Nor did I say you didn't have a right to give a view. I was just disputing your "case in point", although maybe "case in point" carries a different meaning for you than it does for me.

and who has given you the right to call me or anyone for that matter an idiot???

who made you the king of the castle??? i just gave my own views as it is in my right as a member of this forum!

grow up.

Calm down dear. He didn't call you an idiot he said people could say idiotic things all the time.

ok my point being im three up against newcastle 30 mins to go i switch to exstended mode and they go on and score three goals

it just frustrates me that we need to watch the full match or your tatics go to waste am i the only one who feels this way

ok my point being im three up against newcastle 30 mins to go i switch to exstended mode and they go on and score three goals

it just frustrates me that we need to watch the full match or your tatics go to waste am i the only one who feels this way

how do you know the AI didn't change it's tactics?

thats my point i wouldnt know unless i watched the full match but in this case they came out attacking and i used my certain tatic i know would not concead three goals. befor changing to exstended highlights they never looked like scoring.

thats my point i wouldnt know unless i watched the full match but in this case they came out attacking and i used my certain tatic i know would not concead three goals. befor changing to exstended highlights they never looked like scoring.

hmmm, i'm playing devil's advocate really because i understand that there are things in fm that happen so often that you're convinced that it's not a coincidence. i'm confident that it is just a change in the AI's tactics, etc, but you're right, it would be nice for someone from si to clarify, just to make the answer final

thats what im after it would be nice

the truth is out there lol

It makes no difference whatsoever what view you watch the match on

I didn't call anyone an idiot, but don't let facts get in the way! Nor did I say you didn't have a right to give a view. I was just disputing your "case in point", although maybe "case in point" carries a different meaning for you than it does for me.

case in point is an example. this happened to be my most recent example but its not the first time it happened.

i'm not saying that SI programmed four differnet match engines, i just think that the match engine reacts differently in each view ie. your tactics have different impacts in different views.

my opinion of course.

It makes no difference whatsoever what view you watch the match on

ok i disagree you have gave no reason behind your logic.

im swaying to belive that each setting is like a (easy to hard mode) hardest being watching full match and just commentory being the easy'st. this make alot of sence to me and im sure you would all see the logic of my thoughts.and yes it would be nice for si to clarify on this asap

thats my point i wouldnt know unless i watched the full match but in this case they came out attacking and i used my certain tatic i know would not concead three goals. befor changing to exstended highlights they never looked like scoring.

I'd be a lot more concerned by the game if there was a "tactic I know would not concede three goals" that I could just automatically switch to and then go make a cup of coffee and completely ignore the rest of the game! Teams who are losing tend to take progressively more and more risks as the game nears the end, apart from those who just accept they've lost 3-0 and try to ensure it doesn't end 4-0 or 5-0. I've seen the AI do both of those things.

I'd be a lot more concerned by the game if there was a "tactic I know would not concede three goals" that I could just automatically switch to and then go make a cup of coffee and completely ignore the rest of the game! Teams who are losing tend to take progressively more and more risks as the game nears the end, apart from those who just accept they've lost 3-0 and try to ensure it doesn't end 4-0 or 5-0. I've seen the AI do both of those things.

your point is a good one so let me clarify newcastle did accept they had lost and were defending with there lives then i switch to exstended mode and they go score three goals. make your own minds up

ok i disagree you have gave no reason behind your logic.

im swaying to belive that each setting is like a (easy to hard mode) hardest being watching full match and just commentory being the easy'st. this make alot of sence to me and im sure you would all see the logic of my thoughts.and yes it would be nice for si to clarify on this asap

I doubt I'd see the logic to your thoughts! You are entitled to whatever opinion you like, but the amount of detail that must go into the match engine is astronomical. Thus my logic is that there is no way on earth that any company would waste valuable programming time developing 4 different match engines instead of just giving you 4 different "highlights" packages from the same match engine.

I have watched the best part of 2½ seasons of Werder Bremen in full match mode and it wasn't harder at all than before I switched to that - on the contrary it gave me a better understanding of what was actually going on in the match - thus I make a lot more mid-match tweaks to my tactics than I would in key highlights mode and certainly than in commentary mode, but that is obvious and isn't the issue being discussed anyway.

Also, if I remember correctly (I never use the functionality myself), can't you select to view extended highlights of a game after it has finished? If you watched it on comentary only mode all the events that would later go into the Extended highlights package would still have to be accurately simulated.

your point is a good one so let me clarify newcastle did accept they had lost and were defending with there lives then i switch to exstended mode and they go score three goals. make your own minds up

Maybe they were only defending because your team were attacking them so much they couldn't do anything but defend and then when you changed tactic (or just because your players decided the game was won and eased off) they finally managed to take some control of the game and your players then got nervous and started frantically defending their lead and getting more scrappy.

Why don't OP just watch commentary only and save the match, and then review the match in full time mode?

This simply explains.

There is no way on earth that SI would go to the trouble of implementing 4 different match engines, one for each mode of viewing the match! The viewing modes are just different windows into the same match - the more detail you have the more you can react to things so that will change the result obviously (or potentially at least), but not if you just sit there and make no changes at all for the full 90 minutes.

Giving 1 single example of a case where you conceded goals when watching key highlights, but scored them when in commentary only mode and claiming it to be evidence is ridiculous! People could claim all kinds of idiotic things in life if all you needed was one example and ignore all examples to the contrary!

Ever read the bible????!!!

yes, but it wasn't the authors best work. it lacks realism and credibility, and the second half isn't worth reading...

Why don't OP just watch commentary only and save the match, and then review the match in full time mode?

This simply explains.

No it doesn't. The match will unfold two different ways no matter what you watch it on. The calculations will be different, the AI will make different changes, etc.

If you mean save the match so you can view it later, that definately won't explain anything, because the match will already be decided.

If I go 1-0 down early doors (first 5 mins) I go to commentary only and generally equalise straight away. This probably is not proof of different ME's but its just something I've gotten into the habit of doing.

the results should be the same. Matches are calculated in advance so it doesnt really matter if you watch the pitch or not.

that's not true. Otherwise it would be useless to watch the games and make tactical changes during the game if the result is already calculated.

Calculations are made in advance. Once you click confirm to go to the match the score at the end of the first-half is calculated. If you make tactical changes during the match then the half-time score will be calculated again based on these changes. Once you start the second half the result is calculated and if you make any tactical changes during the second half the result is recalculated.

Someone said you need 4 match engines if changing how you view changes the result which is not necessarily true. It could just recalculate the result. I still disagree changing how you view it changes the outcome. I think it is just human nature that people sometimes forget when the outcome did not change which probably outweighs the amount of times that it did. This happens when you are subconsciously trying to make yourself believe something. Also, I have used all 4 views and never noticed anything like this.

I realise you are going to have to take me at my word about this as I don't have screenies etc since I did this a while ago. But like you (but slightly different) despite being a logical enough bloke I still got the feeling that 'commentary only' = more goals.

So what I did was I tested it out in a controlled manner. So I managed both teams, made no changes to either's tactics and played 20 matches in full and 20 matches in commentary only. There was no difference. Yes sometimes the scores varied due to the random factor but overall the match stats stayed fairly consistent.

I did this on 07 but the same should apply to 08.

There is no way that the match result is changed by how you view the match- changing tactics , personnel and how the AI adjusts to your changes will affect the result but not how it is viewed

If you play the same match twice in the same mode with the same players and same tactics, you'll probably get different results. Just like real matches. It's one of the clever things about the game.

No it doesn't. The match will unfold two different ways no matter what you watch it on. The calculations will be different, the AI will make different changes, etc.

If you mean save the match so you can view it later, that definately won't explain anything, because the match will already be decided.

You see, I was trying to say that it is easy and natural to view a match among four different modes (commentary, highlights, extended and full) and switch from one mode to another.

Therefore, unless it is SI's intention to make difference among these four modes, which is most unlikely, the result of a match should be irrelevant to the mode in which we choose to view the match.

As I see it, the four modes are actually interfaces for human players to understand what is going on in the match engine, and such interfaces should never affect the internal mechanism of the match engine.

that's not true. otherwise it would be useless to watch the games and make tactical changes during the game if the result is already calculated.

yes yes yes. I know that. This is not what i meant. Of course the game recalculates the game after the user makes a change.

yes yes yes. I know that. This is not what i meant. Of course the game recalculates the game after the user makes a change.

If you play the entire match without making any changes to tactics/subs etc, then the result is the same regardless of switching between modes.

However, any changes made to tactics etc make the AI recalculate the result each time.

So, if you play on extended mode (rather than key) and spot a flaw in tactics, that maybe you wouldn't spot in key, then you may change (and you wouldn't have in key) then the result will differ.

Personally, I play in key mode at all times except (i) first few games of each season, especially when have signed new players, changed tactics etc and (ii) on a bad run so need to analyse tactics to find out what is wrong.