motivation playing 'small' teams????

HAHA im chelsea playing Ajax in the Final of the Champions League and im asked...is motivation a problem seeing your playing a small team !!!!!!!! its the fupping Final of the Champions League!!!!!! VERY VERY ANNOYING

Your press conferences, team-talks, and general build up to the match is probably at fault there.

Booo hooo, my post was deleted.

It is annoying because unfortunately the AI somehow makes it harder for you to win over the bad teams. It's ridiculous. I lost to Inter 1-0 but it was an AWESOME game. I tied against Fiorentina 3-3, i think i should have won, but it was a good game played by the guys overall.

Then i play Cesena and i get outplayed badly. It's stupid. You can't make such a mistake in this game's programming. I used to love.......LOVE murdering the lower end teams. Not always, a few times, but i never had issues playing against them in previous FMs. Yet this one..... it's good in many aspects but this one flaw really kills the re-playablity of this game. And, as if i were to manage Cesena i would beat Juve the same exact way? Yeah right.... i'd get clobbered.

What's even more annoying is that, despite the fact the game has been going for a very long time, games played in a neutral stadium still have a home and away team. Whilst the game may report things properly, the match engine still does all its calculations on the basis that the team on the left is at home and the team on the right is away. Why can't they get rid of that?

What's even more annoying is that, despite the fact the game has been going for a very long time, games played in a neutral stadium still have a home and away team. Whilst the game may report things properly, the match engine still does all its calculations on the basis that the team on the left is at home and the team on the right is away. Why can't they get rid of that?

So the team on the left in neutral games has an advantage? I am a little skeptical of that claim.

On the topic - the thing about football is that stronger clubs are not always guaranteed wins against weaker clubs - even substantially weaker clubs. The nature of counter-attacking, the pressure to score, the differing importance of games, all these factors combine in making results far more unpreditable than simply saying the better team will always win (or at least draw). Take Manchester United last year. They didn't lose a lot of games, but who did they lose to? Wolverhampton. That's what happens in football. And FM does a credible job of recreating these factors.

What's even more annoying is that, despite the fact the game has been going for a very long time, games played in a neutral stadium still have a home and away team. Whilst the game may report things properly, the match engine still does all its calculations on the basis that the team on the left is at home and the team on the right is away. Why can't they get rid of that?

May be the sound only...

So the team on the left in neutral games has an advantage? I am a little skeptical of that claim.

It's true. No need for scepticism.

What makes you say that though?

last time i looked at backroom advice i got told we are overawed by higher rep clubs and complacent against lower reps. makes me wonder how i ever win a game!

You should be happy to be asked this. It gives you a glorious opportunity to increase the pressure on your team (if that's what you want to do, and if you are successful, in-form, and have mentally-prepared players, you probably want to; if you are on a stuttering run of form, you probably want to downplay expectations, either to coddle your player's frail morale, or to provoke them into proving you wrong).

Private chats, press conferences, team talks -- these are the pressure valves you have to keep adjusting as your team wins or loses and their morale and jadedness rise and fall.

The Backroom Advice is full of stupid advices and it's not that useful. I'd drop it for FM 12. I always click dismiss.

The Backroom Advice is full of stupid advices and it's not that useful. I'd drop it for FM 12. I always click dismiss.

I almost always click dismiss as well, except for the scouting advice, then I always scout as it is never really a bad thing to know more players - and often the advice is good as well!

What makes you say that though?

i might be wrong here but i think it used to affect the way the AI approaches the game, if they are the "home" team, they played like it no matter who they are against, if that still happens in FM2011 i have no idea of however

I have heard that there are home and away advantage in neutral matches as well, been mentioned on here for the past few games. I thought I was being superstitious but my teams always seem to play slightly better if I am the "home team" in finals.

Booo hooo, my post was deleted.

It is annoying because unfortunately the AI somehow makes it harder for you to win over the bad teams. It's ridiculous. I lost to Inter 1-0 but it was an AWESOME game. I tied against Fiorentina 3-3, i think i should have won, but it was a good game played by the guys overall.

Then i play Cesena and i get outplayed badly. It's stupid. You can't make such a mistake in this game's programming. I used to love.......LOVE murdering the lower end teams. Not always, a few times, but i never had issues playing against them in previous FMs. Yet this one..... it's good in many aspects but this one flaw really kills the re-playablity of this game. And, as if i were to manage Cesena i would beat Juve the same exact way? Yeah right.... i'd get clobbered.

This claim is getting a bit repetitive. It is you that are at fault, not the game. When I play low end sides, I'll win by a couple of goals if I play badly, by hatfuls if the team puts it all together.

If you spent the same amount of energy trying to work out how to beat these teams as you do ranting about how it is impossible, you might learn a few things and start to enjoy the game a little more.

When I play low end sides, I'll win by a couple of goals if I play badly, by hatfuls if the team puts it all together.

Well, that is how it used to be in CM/FM so you can imagine it's a big (and annoying, no matter how realistic) change to accept for people.

I've been playing this game for years. All the sudden this crap happens. What did you guys do to it? You can't possibly tell me that i have to change tactics for an abysmal team. What real manager would ever do such a thing? If you are suggesting that, then it beats the purpose of the game to be a simulation, an imitation of real life managing. You think Mourinho, Lippi, Guradiola and other top notch managers change formation for a team that is a definite for relegation? It's not me. It's the emphasis of the lack of motivation and focus of the players on your team versus a low reputation team. It's too much, it's exaggerated.

Here is further proof.

I had to re-install the game after updating my Mac system to Lion, so while i was at it, i wanted to start a better challenge. I picked Genoa. With some luck in Serie A, a mediocre team (i spent all my money on Jadson and man was he a bust) due to some key injuries to Milan, Juventus, i managed to get 2nd place by one point. Inter won by 17 points.

For the second year i managed to buy three big pieces, with costly four year monthly installments, in Pastore, Hazard, and Neymar. And, with luck, i signed Hargreaves (never spotted him before and he is a very good MF)

My first game in Champions was against Real Madrid. Result? 0-0. Real should have easily beaten me. They missed chances after chances, hit the woodwork twice. It was a good game, but i was expecting them to score a goal whenever they had good ball possession in my box.

So....either my formation kicked butt and my players held their own, or Real lacked the typical "motivation" and could not defeat an inferior team. Which is it?

Now, only three games in and i tied against Roma and Inter, while defeating Napoli. All good games, although Napoli was only a 1-0 score :\ team played so-so. But, now i just played against Catania.... 14th place, winless (0-2-1). I lose 2-0! Barely had ball possession... Morimoto came into the 60th minute or so and scored a 20 yarder and another from a bad angle. Morimoto........ while i watched Eden Hazard miss three great opportunities shooting the ball about 10 feet wide, and once hitting the crossbar with Andujar having no chance what so ever.

So, don't tell me that it's my fault. I have never had any issues with this in previous FMs. What did you guys DO!? Maybe it's something only in Serie A? I just don't get it. Whatever team i use, the moment it becomes a favorable to win the Serie A i get a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde team.

Regardless.......for FM 12........PLEASE FIX THE MOTIVATION FACTOR AGAINST CRAPPY TEAMS!!!!! I can understand once in a while. It happened in previous FMs with me. But for the most part i beat them. Now i can't beat them. I get more nervous playing the likes of Cesena, Brescia, Bari, and now Catania than Milan, Juve, and Inter. So it's not me........it's the game!

You have to fix the motivation factor against crappy teams. That's your job as a manager. There are numerous ways to do this available to you every time you click 'Continue' instead.

And since we're talking about realism, and you're talking about Serie A: last season champions Milan drew against Bari and Catania, lost to Cesena, and dropped points hosting Lecce. Inter drew with 19th placed Brescia at home and away, and also dropped points when facing Parma, Chievo, and Lazio. Napoli also drew away to bottom clubs Bari and Brescia, lost to Chievo not once but twice, and threw in a home defeat to Lecce just for kicks.

Sampdoria, who were ultimately relegated, nonetheless managed draws against Juventus (twice), Inter, Milan, and Udinese, and beat Roma.

But if you think managers don't adjust how they play against weaker sides, or that underdogs who play for draws often get them (or snatch wins against the odds), I really don't know what to tell you.

I don't think you're getting it. It's EVERY game i play against these lower rep teams that my team gets hammered. Like i said, in previous FM games i lost and tied a few, but mostly won. This time it's mostly losing, and tying and winning a few.

There are not numerous ways to fix the motivation factor in the game. It's mainly press conference and team talk. It doesn't work no matter what i do.

I just find it ridiculous that my good players outright suck and can't finish open chances but then i see a mediocre player in Morimoto score Ronaldo-type goals. Come on... it's ridiculous. How do you explain my game against Real Madrid? Was it really me and my team or the motivational BS? Which one? Because Real missed chances the same way my team misses chances when playing against inferior teams.

Many different factors contribute to how your team perform against bigger or smaller opposition, not just Tactics, Team Talks and Press Conferences, and with these you sometimes just need to be careful with what you say i.e. Team Talks. I usually say "I expect a win!" when facing lower teams and more often than not it works. You need to watch with tactics as well because change too many players and it can disrupt the team. I play as Celtic and I was playing Ayr in the Scottish Cup and I am sad to admit that I got humped 3-0 but I know my downfall was changing too many players around - I tactically f***ed up.

There is also Private Chat as well. Praise individual players for when they play good or excellent but be a bit harsher when they are crap, BUT be careful with this. I have had players who have been really good and if they have been excellent over the spell of, say 5 matches, I have given a Private Chat to him after each match saying about how good he's played, keep it up etc but if his next match he is below average I won't say anything because he might have just had a bad day and I won't risk damaging his morale just because 1 game in 6 he was bad. I mean how would you feel getting told that you were doing really good, one of the managers important players etc after each match you performed excellently in then to have one bad match get lynched for it? This all depends on the player I know but it could damage morale for him. Doing this will affect your players performances as well. A bad run of matches won't help players either and actually tell a player (whose had a bad run of matches or hardly performed) in Private Chat that he risks being dropped into Reserves if he doesn't start performing or that you ARE dropping him into Reserves because he's not performing. Get him to prove he deserves a place in the 1st team with performances in the Reserves.

Players will naturally become a bit more complacent when facing smaller opposition or determined when facing bigger opposition - just like in real life, and it's YOUR job to make sure they don't become complacent against the smaller teams. If they get outperformed as well as lose then be angry in your full time team talk, no matter what. If they lose but the performance was good be less harsh by taking the performance into account and not just the score because the smaller team might have had only 2 shots on target and one of them might have been a lucky shot.

Also, what kind of attributes do the majority of your players have for Concentration, Determination, Influence & Work Rate as all these will have some kind of effect as well - especially if losing against a smaller team. If their Concentration is low then they will tend to lose goals later on in matches and start performing worse. Low Determination is self explanatory - if they go behind (or even in most matches) they can't be bothered trying to fight back. Influence - especially for your chosen team captain - is important as well because members with high Influence can Influence the other members to do better, although they can be fighting a losing battle if they are trying to Influence players with low determination. Work Rate - well, again, to me this is like Determination - if their Work Rate is low they won't put much effort into the match, especially if they do behind.

It ALL mounts up and can be a very fine line between success or failure.

What real manager would ever do such a thing? If you are suggesting that, then it beats the purpose of the game to be a simulation, an imitation of real life managing. You think Mourinho, Lippi, Guradiola and other top notch managers change formation for a team that is a definite for relegation? It's not me.

Football tactics 101: It is about controlling space. Teams under top managers will control space very differently against lower level teams than they will against other top ones. They will be much more willing to open things up in order to break down the massed defences they will face than they would of a team of a similar calibre. Giving up a lot of space against a quality side invites disaster, whereas it is necessary to break down 'park the bus' teams.

Here is further proof.

I had to re-install the game after updating my Mac system to Lion, so while i was at it, i wanted to start a better challenge. I picked Genoa. With some luck in Serie A, a mediocre team (i spent all my money on Jadson and man was he a bust) due to some key injuries to Milan, Juventus, i managed to get 2nd place by one point. Inter won by 17 points.

For the second year i managed to buy three big pieces, with costly four year monthly installments, in Pastore, Hazard, and Neymar. And, with luck, i signed Hargreaves (never spotted him before and he is a very good MF)

My first game in Champions was against Real Madrid. Result? 0-0. Real should have easily beaten me. They missed chances after chances, hit the woodwork twice. It was a good game, but i was expecting them to score a goal whenever they had good ball possession in my box.

So....either my formation kicked butt and my players held their own, or Real lacked the typical "motivation" and could not defeat an inferior team. Which is it?

Now, only three games in and i tied against Roma and Inter, while defeating Napoli. All good games, although Napoli was only a 1-0 score :\ team played so-so. But, now i just played against Catania.... 14th place, winless (0-2-1). I lose 2-0! Barely had ball possession... Morimoto came into the 60th minute or so and scored a 20 yarder and another from a bad angle. Morimoto........ while i watched Eden Hazard miss three great opportunities shooting the ball about 10 feet wide, and once hitting the crossbar with Andujar having no chance what so ever.

So, don't tell me that it's my fault. I have never had any issues with this in previous FMs. What did you guys DO!? Maybe it's something only in Serie A? I just don't get it. Whatever team i use, the moment it becomes a favorable to win the Serie A i get a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde team.

Here's my proof that it is something you are doing:

My team against the bottom 1/3 of my league in my current season:

P 10 W 10 L 0 D 0 F 35 A 1 Pts 30

And that is with my Assistant telling me we have a tendency to get complacent against such sides.

Regardless.......for FM 12........PLEASE FIX THE MOTIVATION FACTOR AGAINST CRAPPY TEAMS!!!!! I can understand once in a while. It happened in previous FMs with me. But for the most part i beat them. Now i can't beat them. I get more nervous playing the likes of Cesena, Brescia, Bari, and now Catania than Milan, Juve, and Inter. So it's not me........it's the game!

And therein lies the reason you lose. You aren't thinking or taking any responsibility for the result.

I usually don't have issues playing weaker sides sure the occational kick to the gut happens but not very often. Then again I usually make it very clear to my team what I expect of them and that is a lot. I don't settle for bad performances and scraped wins at all. I know I got a team that can beat everything as long as they work hard and I hold them to that. I have found that this way I can usually keep the team from getting complacent and if they happen to take the result for granted and is underperforming as a result I'm quick to bring them back down to earth even if they get a win.

You think Mourinho, Lippi, Guradiola and other top notch managers change formation for a team that is a definite for relegation?

What these and other top managers probably appreciate is that teams that are relegation-tipped, when playing my great side, are going to play cautiously, defend in numbers, probably sit deep, tackle hard, and play 'anti-football'. Those teams are going to expect my side to break them down, and many of them will wait for me to commit high up the field, frustratedly passing it around their closed ranks, before hitting me on the counter, often scoring an 'insolent' goal my supposedly dominant players didn't expect.

They didn't expect it because they are pampered. They are likely on a good run of form, perhaps earning high-pressure victories against tough opposition, so their jadedness is high and their egos are bloated. And yet I failed to remind them of my expectations, which should be considerable against weak teams. Or I plugged them into the same position game after game, not providing sufficient competition for places. Maybe I stated in a press conference that my team is excellent and the smaller team hopeless, thus suggesting to my players they wouldn't have to work for the result. Above all, maybe I failed to adapt my tactics, continuing to play as if these small sides were just there to give me free points, not realizing that the reason I found space and scored goals against better sides is because they were more willing to come out and play, and that the same thing won't necessarily work against a variety of sides with varying tactics.

Or maybe it's all of these things, and more, creating a perfect storm in which I lose to sides I should comfortably beat. It happens to the best of us.

But when it happens, you should learn from it. Change your press behaviour: underplay your chances publically and overstate your expectations privately (or vice-versa if your players can't handle pressure and haven't been tutored, trained, and disciplined to be real footballers, which is highly likely because every 'super' team I see on these forums has the same four or five primadonnas mashed into it). Rethink your team talks, and learn how your different players cope with pressure. Do you know who in your team is ambitious but prone to complacency? And who is a dedicated professional who will give his all no matter the opposition? Above all, change up your tactics and rotate your players -- the minnows are more likely to take risks if they're playing your supposed second team.

(Or just click 'Continue' and hope for the best, then blame the game when that doesn't work...)

What these and other top managers probably appreciate is that teams that are relegation-tipped, when playing my great side, are going to play cautiously, defend in numbers, probably sit deep, tackle hard, and play 'anti-football'. Those teams are going to expect my side to break them down, and many of them will wait for me to commit high up the field, frustratedly passing it around their closed ranks, before hitting me on the counter, often scoring an 'insolent' goal my supposedly dominant players didn't expect.

They didn't expect it because they are pampered. They are likely on a good run of form, perhaps earning high-pressure victories against tough opposition, so their jadedness is high and their egos are bloated. And yet I failed to remind them of my expectations, which should be considerable against weak teams. Or I plugged them into the same position game after game, not providing sufficient competition for places. Maybe I stated in a press conference that my team is excellent and the smaller team hopeless, thus suggesting to my players they wouldn't have to work for the result. Above all, maybe I failed to adapt my tactics, continuing to play as if these small sides were just there to give me free points, not realizing that the reason I found space and scored goals against better sides is because they were more willing to come out and play, and that the same thing won't necessarily work against a variety of sides with varying tactics.

Or maybe it's all of these things, and more, creating a perfect storm in which I lose to sides I should comfortably beat. It happens to the best of us.

But when it happens, you should learn from it. Change your press behaviour: underplay your chances publically and overstate your expectations privately (or vice-versa if your players can't handle pressure and haven't been tutored, trained, and disciplined to be real footballers, which is highly likely because every 'super' team I see on these forums has the same four or five primadonnas mashed into it). Rethink your team talks, and learn how your different players cope with pressure. Do you know who in your team is ambitious but prone to complacency? And who is a dedicated professional who will give his all no matter the opposition? Above all, change up your tactics and rotate your players -- the minnows are more likely to take risks if they're playing your supposed second team.

(Or just click 'Continue' and hope for the best, then blame the game when that doesn't work...)

:applause:

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